Thread 106095114

So my idea is currently to simply intentionally lock my server into a cloud vendor by using as many AWS/GCP/Azure proprietary services as possible, so that in case the picrel results in changes of the law, I could just release the server binary, but nobody would be able to run it outside of AWS/GCP/Azure, and they would go bankrupt if they try to do that. Any better ideas?

>>106095114 (OP)
Here's an idea Maldavius, use your mana gem and go to >>>/trash/ you disgusting furfag

>>106095114 (OP)
Have you looked into taking your own life?

making your game use certificate pinning should be enough and possibly better since you're releasing source code for the server but not the client
still, there is no way to stop people from figuring this out, if there's enough interest people absolutely will patch anything you do out, the only chance would be to not run the game on people's computers (think of it like cloud gaming, except mandatory), but i'm not even sure if this would end up being legal

>>106095114 (OP)
just dont make live service games you faglord

>>106095114 (OP)
Make the game open source

the point of the proposed law is to make the game playable after the central server shuts down. if you release a server binary that doesn't allow that, then you're not complying with the proposed law.

if you really want your own game to get destroyed, make it into a pay monthly subscription - then you can just stop taking payments and kill it all you please.

when you decide it's time to shutdown the game, you simply release a GIGA UPDATE where you basically turn the game into one of the countless flappy bird clones or whatever, and of course make it playable 100% offline to comply with the law

>>106095114 (OP)
Nigga just release the server binary when you're planning to take the servers down. What's the point of doing all that obfuscation for a game you're not going to be interested in supporting anymore? Let your players enjoy things they care about, even if you don't.

>>106097751
All it takes is 100K angry normies complaining to get you sued into oblivion, buddy.
Law isn't just words on a paper, it's written by human beans.

>>106095114 (OP)
>my idea is to make it exceedingly difficult for myself to comply with legal requirements while also driving up my own operating costs for no reason
Are you retarded?

The answer is that for now you probably don't need to do anything, because if they change the law it will probably not be retroactive. If you want to make it easy for yourself in the future, you should either build the game to run without requiring a server or do something like add a LAN MP option to it. This way the game complies by default and you won't need to do anything at all when you shut down online servers.

>>106098334
But how would he sell you slop 2 if you can keep playing slop 1 instead?

>>106095264
fpbp

>>106095114 (OP)
The only real way is to make a shitton of money with your game, have a "end of life" plan, then just don't do it and run :^)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/567380/Heartbound
Hope this doesn't offend anyone in this thread.

>>106099968
>$9.99
>3000 reviews
Do what you must, but he already won

>>106097751
Any reasonable law is going to read as the following:
What is advertised as features at the time of purchase is expected to be available when the game is sunsetted.

In general compliance would be simply easiest to support player-hosted servers (THIS USED TO BE NORMAL) and of course, not poison pilling your game to a central server.

>>106098554
Because people like buying new things even when they have perfectly good old things? Most people don't have extreme autism and don't get fixated on a single game.

>>106097719
Well it is completely playable if you host the server on AWS and can afford to pay for it. Are you saying that one would have to get rid of AWS dependencies to comply with the law?

>>106095114 (OP)
Provide the hosting service yourself through a IaaS provider for those who still wanna play when your game hits the end of life for updates, that way if there's still interest you get a small revenue, while keeping your binaries, offloading all the responsibility to the user and a 3rd party.

>>106100817
then that's probably fine. i'm struggling to imagine how this would work in practice, however.

>>106097719
Which is funny because only three games on the planet with subscription model works flawlessly. Bethesda certainly tried but failed.
That's what they fear.

>>106098334
It's MY game and I get to say who gets to play and WHEN. The game is MY property. Users only get a LICENSE and the TERMS of that LICENSE CLEARLY STATE THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS. How hard is it to understand the SANCTITY of PROPERTY RIGHTS?

>>106101118
I know this is ragebait at this point, but if not, why are you such a selfish, narcissistic cunt?

>>106102218
Because I was the first second-generation Blizzard employee and I worked there for seven years

>>106095264
do you a have a loicense to post insults on the internet? show your ID!

Just don't release the game, then they can't play it ever.

>>106101118
if you sell a game as a good, you cannot change the terms of the sale a week after the fact, render it unusable a couple of months later, while keeping the money.

again, if you're adamant about destroying your own creation, you're more than welcome to sell it under a subscription model. or, you can also make it known in advance to every buyer that "THIS GAME WILL BECOME UNPLAYABLE ON 31 DEC 2029". if the initiative achieves its goal, both of those options should remain legal ways to kill off games.

>>106102304
the disclaimer that the game might get bricked "at any point" is not good enough, since it could be in 10 years or it could be next week. it does not allow the consumer to make an informed purchase.

if whoever purchases the game gets told upfront exactly how long they have to play the game - that's fair, since the consumer can decide for themselves if it's worth buying a game that has a limited lifespan at whatever the cost might be. the subscription model is also fair, since ongoing payment is required to play. the company stops receiving the money, you stop receiving access to the game.

neither of these two options prevent games being destroyed, but it is hoped that they are unattractive enough for the consumer, that they will remain the exception, rather than the norm.

>>106095114 (OP)
You do know that violating the spirit of the law even if you don't violate the letter of the law is also against the law in the EU?
Kek.
Apple tried this malicious compliance bullshit and got buttfucked.

>>106102427
What makes you think it's violating the spirit of the law? I can use AWS services for any reason I wish, and you really can run the server yourself and have the players play on it, but only on AWS. Are you saying that game developers are expected to significantly modify their servers in order to comply with the law?

>>106102470
That's called arbritrary vendor lock in.
>Are you saying that game developers are expected to significantly modify their servers in order to comply with the law?
Correct, just the same as the car industry has to significantly modify their engine designs to comply with emissions rules, just the same as companies are no longer allowed to use lead paints, just the same as Apple has to allow EU users to sideload applications. Oh noes, corporations have to change their business to follow the law, how could this happen!?

>>106095114 (OP)
Tell SKG, commie trannies to fuck off and kill themselves.

>>106102427
EU is a tranny of the planet. I hope that every game and tech company abandons EU to rot. Europoors barely pay anything anyways.

>>106102493
>mmmpphhh mmmmphhh mmmppphhh i lov the taste of your boot my corporate master mmmmppph mmmmmppphh sluurrrrppp i will own nothing and be happy mmpppphhhh thank you master mmmppphhhhhh

>>106095264
fpbp

>>106102479
It's not necessary arbitrary because the companies can build their servers with their infrastructure and development teams in mind - they really ought to be able to use AWS DynamoDB if they already know they're gonna run their servers on AWS.
>Oh noes, corporations have to change their business to follow the law, how could this happen!?
The point I'm making is that such rule would be bullshit, you're not entitled to being able to run their software on infrastructure it was not designed for, and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone using DynamoDB or any other AWS service if that's what they're comfortable with.

>>106102508
>you're not entitled to being able to run their software on infrastructure it was not designed for
That's for the EU to decide.
> and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone using DynamoDB or any other AWS service if that's what they're comfortable with.
Except if what is asked for is legislated, that is to say, that games should be designed with EoL plans in mind from the beginning, and moving games away from third-party middlewares.

If they make a rule that you have to allow it to run on a consumer's system, then you have to do it.
All this garbage about ways and means is irrelevant. If you are told to do something by the EU and you do not do it, that your assets will be seized, your accounts frozen and fines will be levied. You're going to do it irrelevant of how "unfair" it is.

>>106095114 (OP)
So your genius idea is to spend more on servers while the game is operational? Why? Wot would you cuck yourself just to fuck over some randos?

>>106102500
EU put so many restrictions up your asshole, you started hallucinating.
Literal cattle who can't stop asking for more restrictions and regulations calls somebody else a boot-licker. Lol.

>>106102553
Maldavious Figtree, the goblin dildo conniseur roach who used underage girls to sell Second Life furry porn mods and OP of this thread, thinks you are heccin stealing from xim.

>>106102567
>you should be able to download apps from third-party stores
>you should be able to play the game you paid for
>you should be able to live in a clear air society not full of smog and heavy metal poisoning
>SO MANY RULES AND RESTRICTIONS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FUCK DA EU

>>106102548
>That's for the EU to decide.
Well all I'm saying that your idea is not really that moral. What if a corpo makes their game server to run on Oracle Solaris for internal reasons, and then really runs it on Solaris, and they publish the binary when it EoLs and you find out that you can't really run it on your OS? I feel like the company didn't do anything morally wrong.
>you have to allow it to run on a consumer's system
Hopefully that doesn't mean it has to run on Windows?

>>106102578
You can do all of that, brain damaged moron. Nobody ever stopped you.
You don't even play any games, you are just a commie pest, turning gaming in a political platform for your mental illness.

>>106102582
>moral
so? no one gives a fuck about (the lack of) morals in corpo decisions.
> for internal reasons
Games should be designed with EoL plans in mind from the beginning.
>Hopefully that doesn't mean it has to run on Windows?
You're the one that provided a very bad example of using internal tools on Oracle Solaris, but besides, anyone can go and download Solaris anyway.

>>106102608
>You can do all of that, brain damaged moron. Nobody ever stopped you
Really? You'll be able to show me you sideloading an app onto an iPhone outside the EU without using hacks like AltStore or stolen dev certificates?
Mind posting that for us?
I want to play LoadOut, or Lawbreakers. Can you show me where I can play this? You'll be able to provide evidence right.
After all:
>You can do all of that, brain damaged moron. Nobody ever stopped you.

>>106101118
Intellectual property is bullshit. Property rights shouldn't apply to land and data.

>>106102634
>sideloading an app onto an iPhone outside the EU without using hacks like AltStore or stolen dev certificates?
Why won't you do that, retard? The options are here. But you want to be a whiny, emasculated, crying s oy about it.
You are fucking disgusting.
>LoadOut, or Lawbreakers
Don't be a tech illiterate moron who can't use a search engine. Download tools for running a private server, or find a community with one already running. Don't complain that nobody plays those pieces of shit thought.

>>106095114 (OP)
Lock the binaries behind an EU Digital ID verification requirement.
So when they take it, at least they are fully doxxed for you.

>>106102639
You got no idea what you moron is even talking about.

>>106102479
>Apple has to allow EU users to sideload applications
Meanwhile the EU Digital ID uses Apples attestation service to verify that it did NOT get sideloaded and will lock you out of society if you sideloaded.

>>106102664
So you can't provide any evidence?
What a shame. I accept your concession.

>>106102664
>>106102687
Let's make it easier for you, pick some more popular games.
I want to play Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 and FireFall. Can you provide evidence of these fully working and playable for consumers please?
After all:
>You can do all of that, brain damaged moron. Nobody ever stopped you.

>>106102687
>Concession.
Disingenuous political drone. You don't play any games, as I said. You are here to fling shit at your imaginary enemies (other propaganda obsessed NPCs).

SKG won't pass anyway

>>106102708
I'm playing a game right now, but I want to play the 1.0 version, before the reboot, so that I can explore the world, lore, quests and challenges of the original.
You'll be able to hook me up with the fully working as it was version of the game, right?

>>106102613
>You're the one that provided a very bad example of using internal tools on Oracle Solaris
What do you mean? Yes, they can go and download Solaris, but you can't run it on your PC

>>106102706
>Final Fantasy XIV 1.0
>FireFall
It's an MMO. I know that you discovered the internet during Covid and got no clue about games. But MMOs always had private servers for older versions running.
I just found them after 1 minute of googling by keywords. But I won't spoon-feed you. Keep outing yourself as a tourist who never played a single game in your life.
I will even tell you more, something you got no idea about, but you can run a local server for currently alive live service games too, like Genshin or Fortnite.

>>106102741
There are no fully working private servers for either, if you'd actually bother to check any of the results. lmao quit embarassing yourself.

>>106102741
>>106102755
>it works saar I do Google and it say work saar

>>106102765
>>106102755
>>106102741
>fully work private server MMO always have server private tourist fortnite

What if there's elements of my game that I've licensed from a third-party for a recurring fee, like using all those characters in Fortnite or real cars in racing games, and the third-parties won't agree to any other license terms so I have to take basically everything out of the game if I try to release it for self-hosting.

What if there are software components that I've licensed in this way, like a proprietary physics engine or netcode protocol? I'm more than willing to release a server binary, but the end used will have to work out their own license agreements with those vendors for potentially tens of thousands of dollars per instance.

>>106102779
read the thread: >>106102548

>>106097751
it would be retarded if a law didn't take this into account, since it'd be the most obvious flaw

>>106102755
I found tools to set up a server for FF14 1.0. You are just retarded.
And that other piece of shit has something for it too. Anyway, you are mentally fucking ill if you want to play some obscure flop that not a single soul in this world is interested in enough to make a server. If you like eating shit so much, you can do it yourself thought.
Oh, what's wrong, you only know how to consume, manchild?

>>106102789
EU law already takes this into account, it's the same shit Apple tried with malicious compliance, and they got buttfucked for it.

>>106102796
>I found tools to set up a server for FF14 1.0
Yes, Project Meteor, where 90% of shit doesn't work. You'd know that if you read more than Google results. I even gave you handy screenshots to help you figure out the answer, but you're such a bootlicking porchmonkey that you can't accept it.
Keep seething.

>>106102548
We need alternative plans of complying with EoL law for new games that doesn't involve releasing anything to users. Any ideas?

>>106102788
So, basically SKG kills gaming, especially indies? Because the requirements are on par with "why won't you create your own country, if you hate this one so much?", and force developers to make sure that their game runs on a PC from 2000. Nice.

>>106102808
Stop using third party shitware would be a good start, or have a transferable perpetual license agreement for it.

>>106102821
No one said you had to make it run on a PC from the year 2000, and nobody asked for this either. You are attempting to poison the well, and I am onto you, disgusting FUD shill.

>>106102828
I am attempting to reason against ignorance and mental illness of cattle who don't know what they are even doing or asking for.

>>106102548
>games should be designed with EoL plans in mind from the beginning
That's too big of an ask and will only serve to deprive us of good games that we would have otherwise gotten.

>>106102839
>That's too big of an ask
Why?
Give one single good reason why.

>>106102839
Why won't he live with an EoL in mind? Oh, he has no plans, he is just a subhuman floating down the current, living in the present. But somehow a corpo should have a clear plan, in a world of constantly changing economical and social landscape.

>>106102548
I really doubt that the legislation will be the way you say it will be, if they even decide to act on the initiative at all

>>106102860
>But somehow a corpo should have a clear plan, in a world of constantly changing economical and social landscape.
Ahh yes, I remember when every car manufacturer went out of business when the emission standards changed.
Oh wait, what really happened was they changed the design of the new product so that it would comply and they continued to sell cars.
CRAZY!

>>106102849
>I am going to go forward till I rich my destination!
>Somebody laid a barbered wire in your path, while you were walking
>AAAAA I AM GOING! I WON'T CHANGE MY DIRECTION!
>Bleeding, you rich landmines, there is a path next to them, with a sign saying "safe detour"
>I AM GOOOO *BOOM*

>>106102849
How is anyone supposed to give you any reason when you said you don't care about morality. It restricts the developers from adapting the server to their infrastructure exclusively for no good reason

>>106102849
Simply because it closes the door to a lot of potential options game developers previously had, constraining what they can reasonably accomplish in a given period of time.

>>106102869
Games aren't cars. Brain damaged subhuman. Keep your filthy, shit stained, brown hands out of the medium.

>>106102876
learn English, Pajeet.
>>106102879
>muh corporate morality
So there's no technical reason, just the "morality" of line going up. lol
>>106102886
Learn to adapt like the car manufacturers and the paint manufacturers when they were told they can't load up on lead anymore.
>>106102897
>I CANT REFUTE YOUR ANALOGY SO IM JUST GONNA SEETHE YOURE BROWN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
lmfao

>>106102837
>who don't know what they are even doing or asking for.
Trvke, its like Thor said, these people are vague and dont even know what theyre asking for. And in the end theyll get all they asked for, but nothing they wanted.

>>106102907
>No arguments
Ok, mutt.

>>106102912
>no arguments
>several arguments in the post and previous posts, none of which have been successfully refuted, just ad hommed
lmao

>>106095114 (OP)
nothing about the proposal says you have to release any server code, just that you couldn't stop people from making their own if they wanted

>>106102920
>Learn English
>You are seething
Is not an argument.

Why has Thor sent his PajeetSoftware simp shills from Hyderabad to the thread?
He must be really scared of SKG kek.

>>106102926
Nobody ever stopped you from it.

>>106102933
When people make nonsense post with exemplary sentences such as:
>I am going to go forward till I rich my destination!
>laid a barbered wire
>Bleeding, you rich landmines
Then yes, they should learn English, and they also should stop seething and make actual arguments based in reality.

>>106102907
>just the "morality"
Well yes? You don't pass random laws just for no reason, you do it to presumably protect rights of the people and make sure it's reasonably ethical (ideally). The fact that you wouldn't be able to optimize for your own infrastructure is not an end goal of itself, it's more of a huge and ridiculous unintended side effect

>>106102907
>Learn to adapt like the car manufacturers and the paint manufacturers when they were told they can't load up on lead anymore.
That's not refuting the point that I'm making, which is that a game that was previously economically feasible to make would no longer be, and will therefore not be made. Yes other games will be made adapting to these new rules, but you can't deny that the set of games makeable with EU regs is strictly smaller than the one with. In the end it will only deprive us of experiences we could have otherwise gotten, which isn't a good thing.

>>106102955
> protect rights of the people
Such as their consumer right to play the game they purchased for as long as they want to play it.
Thanks for playing.

>the one with
*the one without

>>106102949
You are too retarded to understand an analogy. There is no point arguing, you are just an infantile moron, babbling about things that you don't understand.

>>106102957
>deprive us of experiences we could have otherwise gotten
Experiences like what? Shitty gacha mechanics, FOMO, limited time events?
Stop being vague and provide actual examples.

>>106102966
I understand analogies written in actual English instead of Pajeetlish, you fucking baboon.

>>106102936
Thor already he doesnt care about SKG amd washed his hands off of it after SKGers swatted him twice, sent several death threats and called him a zoophile, pedophile, nepobaby and narcissist.

>>106102994
>called him a zoophile, pedophile, nepobaby and narcissist.
So, told the truth?

>>106102994
>Thor already he doesnt care
>amd washed his hands
G M S
do not redeem the bloody skg basterd

>>106102976
Ones with complicated server infrastructure, i.e. most modern online games. But in general the true scope of what is being cut off is unknowable, maybe a company in the future would have developed some new game middle-ware that would have only been viable under the current model and that did something cool, say with AI or something like that.

Point is you're pruning a whole branch of the software evolutionary tree and taking rights away from creators in order to give rights to consumers. Is this a worthwhile trade-off? Maybe, it depends on how you assign value to things. But personally I would like creators to have every available tool to them because creating stuff is a lot harder to mindlessly consuming things. Does that mean that I think predatory games are good? No, but they should not be legislated against, consumers should simply vote with their wallets.

>>106102961
It's like you didn't even read the rest of the post

>>106095114 (OP)
Just say that the game is Live Service in the first place and you're untouchable. That's all SKG is going to do, enforce disclaimers and nothing more.
Really, had Maldavius not interfere with this, SKG would've been DOA this year too.

It's really a dumb initiative, but there's permavirgins that actually think videogames are art and accessing Scrimblo Blimblo gacha slop should be a human right.

>>106102926
That has always been legal in US/EU but under UAYOR, but SKG cultists will not want to maintain or finance dedicated servers for games that they are 99% likely not ever going to touch.
>"Wagh Wagh I got ransomware because I wanted to make a retrospective YouTube video about a game SKG preserved, but the servers are breached and I need to sue somebody!"

>>106103022
>some new game middle-ware that would have only been viable under the current model
Just make it perpetually licensed and charge more for it. No reason to have every SaaS except for corporate greed.
> taking rights away from creators in order to give rights to consumers. Is this a worthwhile trade-off?
Yes, because consumers have less power proportionally, and there is now an imbalance in the amount of power corporations have over the consumer to control their purchases. This is shit your learn in your first economics class.
> I would like creators to have every available tool to them because creating stuff is a lot harder to mindlessly consuming things.
Then develop innovative solutions that comply with the law, just like we did with Teflon, just like we did with paint, just like we did with cars.
>consumers should simply vote with their wallets.
Consumers cannot vote with their wallets when every game is moving toward the same model.

>>106103055
>Just say that the game is Live Service in the first place and you're untouchable.
Nope, this has already been covered lol..
You make a purchase in a LS game, you've now paid for content that you have the right to access.
Too bad you're so good at writing a bunch of shit, but no good at reading anything useful.

>>106103063
>Consumers cannot vote with their wallets when every game is moving toward the same model.
This is learned helplessness.

In any case you have still not said anything against the central point I'm making about the set of games that can be created economically under EU regs being smaller. That's the main thing I'm trying to say. "Just work harder bro! I want my games!" is not a valid rebuttal to this.

>>106103093
>What SKG wants
vs.
>What's actually going to happen
Good wishful thinking, KiwiFarmer. Too bad you assumed wrong.
In fact, this only makes SKG look more retarded and childish.
They're only going to enforce another EULA that most people won't reader, as I posted earlier, no different than the warning labels they put on cigarettes.
Sorry fampai, but Azur Lane is going to shut down and you're going to have to cope with your FOMO.

>>106095114 (OP)
>how do i get around this
you will be forced to release your entire source code, stopkillinggames requires users to actually be able to run it locally without being locked into anything, so go release everything under the GPL from the very beginning, it would boost your game's popularity drastically.

>>106103168
>reader
damn revision oversight. Oh well, not like your superfluous activism is going to be impactful. At least GoG is keeping the actual fight with game preservation going.

>>106102676
Poland has had digital IDs since covid. Nothing fucking changed for average joe. Many people don't even use one because "muh conspiracy, literally 1984" and use their plastic ID and they're completely fine.

>>106103168
>IDS DA KIWIFARMS
take your mediciation

>>106103251
>THAT'S NOT TRUUEEEE
You shizoids accuse every critic as Jason, makes you angry doesn't it?

When can we expect an official announcement that the EU Parliament is not gonna pass any law in response to SKG?

>>106103221
germany has digital IDs but i reject them
they also enforce fingerprints but i covered all of my fingers in superglue+dirt before getting a new ID, so they weren't able to pick them up
they also have fucking chips inside them, shine a bright light through those plastic cards and find it
throw it into a microwave or hammer on the chip between sheets of soft paper tissues (to avoid making scratches or actual dents, just break it from pressure and shock)
alternatively, take a needle and ram it through the middle of the chip, or fold the card in half right through the chip, then iron it out between baking paper sheets until its flat and smooth again
you can do all of those things (i did), and double check it
those are NFC chips (+ whatever else they put in there, idk), so you can either get an nfc scanner and see if it spits out anything, or use a phone with nfc capabilities (you probably need root access to get the raw nfc data off it)

>>106103293
About the same time as they won’t do anything about Apple using Lightning and sideloading on iOS.
Oh wait…. KEK

>>106095114 (OP)
ure an idiot. aws can be mostly emulated with localstack, which is free, only some elbow grease would be needed to run ur dogass game

>first killing babies
>now killing games
wtf is wrong with (((them)))

>>106100817
You do realize uhm ackually this is technically maybe compliant doesn't actually work in the law right? Intent also matters. Someone will make the obvious realization this is, at best, malicious compliance and you could be taken to court and forced to explain your reasoning and you're going to have a hard time explaining this choice in a way that doesn't make you civilly or criminally liable.

>>106101118
Call it a rental then. 99% of this problem is you want the benefits of a "Buy" button and "Owned" label.

>>106095114 (OP)
you're game is shit anyway

>>106103653
but nobody wants to rent my game, and that wouldn't let me fuck over my herd of cattle consoomers :(
fucking freetards, why can't we have good things like slavery?

>>106103642
Did you read what I posted, who says this is malicious compliance? The intent very much could be that I used AWS proprietary services because I really like them and want to use them

>>106101118
Unless that happens to be illegal and your license is worth less than as much toilet paper :)

>>106103694
>I used AWS proprietary services because I really like them and want to use them
lmao have fun saying that in front of the EUCJ
>b-but I like vendor lock in and proprietary slop
12% of revenue fine levied + €100,000 every day until you make it agnostic.

>>106103694
Having third party dependencies like requiring a specific cloud service provider is unlikely to be compliant. The only way to be compliant outside of a straight subscription model is to design your game to have self-hosted servers which aren't dependent on any specific third party infrastructure. You're going to find it extremely hard in court to rationalize that making a paid AWS server a prerequisite fulfills the requirement of your game being non-expiring because I think most of us understand AWS existing even 20 years from now is unlikely.

>>106103725
the followup to stop killing games should be to make proprietary software illegal as a whole
force all source code to be public
imagine living in a world where you're not allowed to know what the fuck is running on your computer, let alone changing it or controlling it

>>106103740
That's a strawman. Software and hardware changes. So the only premise that makes sense is software you buy should work on the target platform forever There is no burden to make software work for operating system upgrades, but is should always work for the listed platforms and versions.

>>106103735
>which aren't dependent on any specific third party infrastructure
And why would you want to cripple devs like that?

>>106103750
>burden
releasing your source code is not a burden, and i think that releasing your source code should free you from any and all obligations to provide support, warranty, keep it working, etc..., because now users can do it themselves

>>106103780
>millions of dollars in budget
>WE CANT AFFORD TO STICK A SERVER IN THE BASEMENT
pick one

>>106103789
>"Release your industry secrets to us!!"
Lol no

>>106103812
Afford? The devs ought to be able to use any technology for their server implementation that will run almost exclusively on infrastructure that their company, it's really none of your business

>>106103813
>"industry secrets"
if you want to keep your "secrets" so secret, then don't fucking publish binaries you fucktard.
you have no "industry secrets", all you do is slapping together a bunch of textures with a shitty pre-made engine and spaghetti code that isn't readable even in source form, without the need to obfuscate or compile it to make it unreadable.

>>106103780
You don't need to make your game require a proprietary server stack to function. AWS lets you deploy normal binaries which can be hosted on any computer.

>>106103789
Actually it is a burden because you're a thief and leech and without my code you are nothing. Me giving you my code just lets you steal it and do things you couldn't do on your own. So I actively harm myself by allowing a rodent like you have even a crumb.

>>106103830
>for their server implementation that will run almost exclusively on infrastructure that their company
Hosting on AWS would be strictly not their company so you defeated your own argument KEK

>>106103873
>thief
you are the thief because you use a ton of free software to make your proprietary joke of a game, just to exploit users and steal data/money/freedom from them
>without muh code
you have never written a single line of code
>steal
how can i steal something i'm given?
>couldnt do on your own
i can
if you don't want people to take your code, stop releasing your game to the public in general, because someone could decompile and reverse engineer it!
keep your "industry secrets" to yourself internally, and never share any binaries with anyone.

>>106103919
You've reduced this to absurdity. I pay for the game engine, I pay for the code editor, I use software people have volunteered for me to use. I don't any obligation to release my code as open source to you. You may have my server.exe, you may use that to run your own server indefinitely. But that does not entitle you to the code that was used to create that server file just like you're not entitled to the recipe of food you consume.

>>106103857
>Manbaby tantrum
Yikes? Anyways HMU when your optimized indie game is going to hit top sales.
I'll probably torrent it anyways; but it's free advertising, you know?

>>106103917
that their company *uses, I meant, sorry

>>106103968
>you're not entitled to the recipe of food you consume.
but I am?
I am entitled to know every ingredient a foodstuff contains. By law.

>>106104136
An ingredient list isn't a recipe.

>>106104145
>I don't know the difference between recipe and method
kek okay jeet

>>106095114 (OP)
just stop designing your shit to break on purpose

>>106104154
Recipe:
a set of instructions for preparing a particular dish, including a list of the ingredients required.

A recipe includes:
- Ingredients and exact amounts
- Step-by-step instructions
- Timing, technique, sequence, the method of preparation

So no, you're not entitled to the recipe and no, an ingredients list isn't a recipe. Also you fail to understand the purpose of an ingredients list because (as you're likely aware) certain ingredients can harm or kill someone which creates a significant legal burden to have it as a requirement. HOWEVER, as you may note, is not actually a recipe. It is a disclosure.

>>106104224
>certain ingredients can harm or kill someone which creates a significant legal burden to have it as a requirement.
such as proprietary slop not longer receiving updates or support, and no schematics or manuals to repair it themselves, especially in the medical sector.
I’m so glad we agree that this is bad!

>>106104251
Again, you're taking this to absurdity. A medical equipment manufacturer is not obligated in any scenario to give a hospital blueprints for the equipment nor are they required to give indefinite support. You've also mistaken the immediacy of harm from someone eating food they are allergic to and conflating it to medical software which becomes obsolete because it was programmed for Windows XP. And this is within the context of STOP KILLING GAMES. You aren't dying because I didn't give you my game's source code. Yes, you are entitled to a working binary of my game that won't turn off because my server turns off. And no, you aren't entitled to my game's source code and no other industry has this requirement.

>>106104336
>hospitals are not entitled to have working tools to save patients lives
now who is absurd?

>>106104355
I'm describing how things are right now and for everyone involved is actually a good balance because it doesn't -- you know -- make people indirect slaves. Sorry if your underaged brain is incapable of nuance.

The best solution is to not sell to europeans since the next law will be no racism and all imaginary genders playable because hate speech

>>106104432
this thread is about the future, not now, illiterate corpo ape.
Improving society isn’t slavery. Knuckledragging porchmonkey.

>>106104520
Convenient that the future involves you get getting free stuff without any work.

>>106104538
How did you figure that?
If I paid for the game, then it’s not “free stuff”.

>>106104555
You paid for the game (binary) not the source code. Those are entirely different transactions. Buying a chair doesn't entitle you to an apprenticeship. I sold you a game which I said had X features and works on Y system(s). If the game does as it's said, the transaction is complete and you're even entitled to a refund if the game doesn't work. In case you forgot, the reason why Stop Killing Games is justified is because they fail to disclose an expiration period which is a purchase-decision impacting detail which should 1) make it illegal to even describe the game as "purchaseable" and 2) imply the game -- through no change on the consumer's part -- is playable based on reasonable understanding.

>>106104636
don’t care
if you can’t release a server binary that runs on the average 6 core i5 consumers have, you release the source code.
that simple.

>>106104676
My game server? Its several ASICs talking on non TCP/IP channels, good luck troon

>>106104676
Unlucky for you it doesn't matter if you care because you're not going to get the law changed and Stop Killing Games doesn't make whatever absurd assertion you make a reality. In practice this law would force games to honestly describe themselves either as Rentals/Subscriptions (no implied ownership) or Purchasable (implied, indefinite ownership). Which means that it's unlikely any game that requires a real server to function like an MMO would ever be obligated to even release the server files because there's no implied ownership but that might require them to fundamentally change how microtransactions in the game are listed. Skins, for example, shouldn't say "Buy" they should say "Rent" (Expiration date). Games that want the "buy" button will have to make necessary changes to make their software runnable indefinitely on the listed target platforms.

>>106104726
>ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN
>JUST LIKE WITH USB C
>JUST LIKE WITH SIDELOADING
you’re quivering with fear kek
i bet OBD ports on cars accessible to the consumer so they can read and write diagnostics data streams make you seethe too

>>106104816
You sound more upset than me especially since you can't understand the rationale behind these decisions and none of these are even remotely as intrusive as requiring all software to be open sourced. And if you had some critical thinking, you'd realize that in practice your list is more akin to "games shouldn't require a central server to function and games that are sold should have sunset plans and offline fallback" over "games should be forced to publish their source code".

>>106103968
>i pay
you are being cucked.
does it feel good?
>paying for a text editor
imagine being too retarded to use emacs
and yes, you releasing binaries entitles anyone who receives them to receive the source code as well.
im basically all countries, restaurants/stores/food producers are legally required to tell you exactly whats in the food too
does this hurt the sale of any food? no. because food producers actually put effort into it, rather than copypasting shit and calling it "their thing that nobody else could make"

>>106104224
the step by step instructions are "just throw it all together to get what you want out of it"
it only makes it slightly more annoying to figure out the exact recipe, but not impossible. you are only hurting your userbase and yourself by not releasing your code.
i get why you might not want to share a piece of software with the general public, but then you should keep it to yourself completely, rather than just releasing useless binaryshit.

>>106104224
i am also entitled to know the ingredients to your software, that means i want to know every single library you used, every function you wrote, and what everything does, because certain software will kill my privacy, my freedom, and my security.
proprietary software is a hazard.
also go fuck yourself thor, nobody will play your shitty gaymemaker undertale copy, even if it was 0$.
literally every single person i met who advocates for proprietary software is an immature retarded adult baby, and a control freak.

>>106104636
how can you pay for a piece of software if you don't even get the actual software?
this is like "buying" a recipe along with the ingredients, but only being told "microwave bag XY for 35 seconds, then mix it with bag Z and pour liquid X on it", having no idea what you actually have in those bags

>>106105147
Ask ChatGPT to explain what I wrote.

>>106105159
>ask ChatGPT to decipher what I asked it to write
kek

>>106104690
if you actually left 4chan once in a while, you’d find that the troons are against SKG, and the chuds are for it.
Nice self own kek

>>106105267
What I wrote is perfectly clear. You're just too ignorant to understand because you don't even know what a binary is.
>you don't even get the actual software?
The binary is the actual software. You're conflating the source code (recipe) with the product (food).

>>106105294
>if you actually left 4chan once in a while, and went on bluesky or twitter
How about you go outside instead niggerfaggot, White Christian men are against SKG an all european faggotry

>>106103968
if you're a gachanigger dev just publish your source code after the game shuts down the end, is it that complicated?

>>106105298
You keep insisting others “don’t understand” even if they understand perfectly, because you have no argument.
You want a cancerous consumer-hostile industry to continue the way it is, that’s enough to dismiss anything you say. If you can’t give customers a working binary for the server software (the food), then you have to give up the source code (the recipe).
There’s your shitty food analogy flipped back on you. You’re only making this shitty analogy because you had ZERO argument against real world examples (car industry, paint industry, manufacturing, USB-C standardization, iOS sideloading, clean air/pollution control). Insisting the game development industry is some special case that can’t change because they just have to use middleware trash and special snowflake infrastructure otherwise it’ll kill le heckin industree even though every other industry adapted and innovated and is making more money than ever.
Game, set and match.
Now go ask AI to help write your next shitty “rebuttal”, so I can give no further replies to it. KEK

>>106105368
>White Christian men
So, indigenous europeans? Because idk if you’ve checked, but the US is like 30% white if you take out the “White Hispanics” (aka not white).

>>106105396
What you call a "flipped analogy" is just you not understanding the original. A working binary is the food, it's the finished product. You're just stamping your feet because you want the recipe too. You're comparing regulated, safety-critical industries (like cars and pollution control) to entertainment software. It's not the same domain, not the same stakes, and not the same legal framework. Software in those industries despite the higher stakes also don't have "open source" requirements. You will never win this argument and a law that had these types of requirements would not only never get passed but would be swiftly struck down by SCOTUS.

>>106105421
SCOTUS has no say in EU law kek
Just like with Apple, no one is going to leave the EU market and lose 30% of their revenue.

>>106105388
If the source code isn’t valuable, then go make your own game and open source it. Is that so complicated? We both know the source is worth far more than what you paid for a compiled binary.

>>106105396
>A working binary is the food, it's the finished product. You're just stamping your feet because you want the recipe too.
GOOD MORNING SAAR
It appears you can’t read English.
Let me say it again:
> If you can’t give customers a working binary for the server software (the food), then you have to give up the source code (the recipe).

I also never realised iOS sideloading and USB-C were safety critical industries. Oh wait, you won’t address those things because they BTFO you.

>>106102548
>If you are told to do something by the EU and you do not do it, that your assets will be seized, your accounts frozen and fines will be levied.

kiss my ass nigger i dare you to come across the atlantic and try to seize anything eurocuck

>>106105446
EU law doesn’t apply to American products unless they operate within the EU, and even then, compliance, like with GDPR, is often half-baked or outright mocked by American companies. You’re pretending enforcement is total and cost-free, but you clearly don’t understand the immense economic and logistical cost your vision would impose. No one is going to open source video game software worth millions for at best break even sales especially when there are alternative, less burdensome laws that could pass which would effectively solve the problem of MISLABELING software.

>>106105407
I said all White Christian men are against SKG and all european faggotry. Are you for european faggotry, or against it?

>>106105298
the binary is a product of the actual software source code you wrote
if that was the actual product, then why don't you write it directly in assembly without a compiler?

>>106105455
>compiled binaries are worthless
exactly.
>>106105495
enjoy losing the whole EU as your userbase

>>106103653
Actually I think there's a good chance that will still be legal under whatever legislation is created. Like, they don't actually want to outlaw rentals as a business, the EU initiatives are just requesting that game developers provide an end-of-life plan. If you clearly state that in two years you're going to pull the plug and anyone who's still playing your game at that point can go fuck himself, that is an end-of-life plan. Perhaps there would be a counter on the Steam store page, showing how long the purchase will last.

>>106105519
i'm a white christian man and i'm for SKG, but i'm normally against whatever the EU does
the only good things they have done are to push free software in governments/schools/hospitals/etc, cucking apple, and SKG.

>>106105529
Gee whiz, lose a hundred million dollars by giving away proprietary source code or lose 10 million dollars in sales! I better go check with accounting about which is worse!

>>106105537
I still personally think if your game can turn off the Buy button must be labeled as Rent along with a defined end date as you say. This will force developers to change their software design to retain the Buy button because "Rent" will kill their sales.

>>106105560
>hundred million dollars
your pajeet spaghetti code isn't worth 50$.
also how exactly would you "lose" those dollars just by releasing your source code?
elaborate if you think that it monetarily harms you.

>>106105596
Cool, then your game should be amazing. Just spend $100 and make something twice as good. :)

>>106105608
i can spend 0$ and make something better than you
plus, i have the power of free software behind me
if i make my game free as in freedom, random people will write code for 0$/h, fix bugs, improve shit, add features, etc...

>>106105624
Good, I genuinely want you to succeed, anon. If you can make a great game, open source it, and build a community around it, that’s a win for everyone. And if you're right, that making games is easy and the source code isn't that valuable, then you’ve got everything you need to prove it. I hope you do. But none of that obligates me to change how I publish my work.

>>106105551
>i'm a white christian man and i'm for SKG
Multiple lies detected

>but i'm normally against whatever the EU does
If the reason being cited is that people are being harmed, therefore the goberment must set the rules then you can look forward to gendershit next

>>106105654
the source code is valuable of course, but how would it affect YOU negatively to share the code?
it only affects everyone positively, INCLUDING yourself.
>>106105674
i'm an orthodox christian russian and for skg
>gendershit
gendershit harms people
only cuckolds like you are gonna comply with regulatory crap, free software doesn't give a shit
they try to make monero illegal in yurop, they try to get rid of vpns, but they can't do jackshit against any of that due to how free software works.

>>106105298
In this food analogy SKG is asking the developers to give out a box like Hello Fresh or whatever subscription food deliveries you have, giving out the ingredients (server binaries) and short instructions how to run that server.

>>106105740
>gonna comply with regulatory crap
I don't comply because I don't sell to faggots (all of europe)
>but they can't do jackshit against any of that due to how free software works
They can just not route any encrypted traffic dumbass

>>106105767
Or here's an idea: normalize self-hosted servers again. We managed just fine before everything went full GaaS post-2014. What you said is clumsy at best so is impossible to write a real response to.

So instead I'll make you my captive audience. I don’t care about you getting access to some online-only gacha trash in 2025. I want a return to pre-2014, when you bought a game, it worked, and it wasn’t wrapped in battle passes or Las Vegas-style psychological traps.

No, I don’t want the server source code for exploitware. And if you think that’s what “preservation” should mean, you’re completely off the reservation. Games like Genshin Impact shouldn’t be saved — they should be labeled for what they are: worthless, arbitrary gambling products with zero long term value.

>>106105826
>sell
nobody wants to buy worthless binarycucked malware

>>106105826
the entire internet depends on encrypted traffic, thats not viable.
even in russia where pocкoмнaдзop is literally pulling IQ >9000 stunts to analyze SSL packets and guess what they could contain by their size, headers, etc..., you can just bypass that with byedpi or zapret, and I2P if you really need to

Release a swagger spec
No one asked for your shitty code

>>106105892
literally this
quake 3 is fun, you should play openarena some time, the /N/ guys are usually online after 3:00 AM moscow time

>>106105943
>quake 3
FUCK YEAH

>>106105892
The game is shit but the models are good

>>106105943
The match making era is particularly bad not just because it kills all play choice, but because playtime is monetized, the matchmaking is incentivized to matchmake based on what maximizes $/hour over fun.

>>106105932
It is entirely viable, they can simply only route the encrypted traffic they control as a middle man. Even if you individually can avoid anything it doesn't matter, normies cannot and a single small obstacle is enough to stop 99% of normies as is.

>>106105910
I don't care how much you scream and cry, all humans in my video games will only have Male and Female

>>106101118
In the EU what people buy isn't the license, but the copy of the software. The license is just a set of ancillary terms to the contract of sale, which legally speaking are not allowed to be transformative to the nature of the contract itself. If you buy a copy of the software, in the EU you're effectively buying a good. And the publisher's rights over that copy were exhausted at first sale. Period.

>>106106182
you can hide encrypted traffic in plaintext too, thats literally what i2p does
they already have middlemen controlling encryption (SSL, cert authorities, etc), but that doesn't affect i2p

>>106102779
>What if there's elements of my game that I've licensed from a third-party for a recurring fee, like using all those characters in Fortnite or real cars in racing games, and the third-parties won't agree to any other license terms so I have to take basically everything out of the game if I try to release it for self-hosting.

EU Directive 2019/770, Art 10 : https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32019L0770#art_10
Restrictions following from third party rights, in particular intellectual property rights, which prevent or limit use of digital content are classified as non-conformance to contract and the same remedies apply: either the issue gets fixed, an appropriate price reduction commensurate to the lost functionality is given, or the consumer has the right to terminate the contract and be owed a full refund.
Except in those cases where national law already provides for the nullity of contracts in such cases, but nullity implies a reversal of status to the original status quo before the contract was started - which means you're owed a full refund as well.

>>106106207
Ok but where is i2p on the Apple App store then?

>>106097751
That would be in violation of Art 19 of Directive 2019/770 and consumers could exercise their legal right to terminate the contract and be owed a full refund in the process.

>>106105368
>niggerfaggot
>faggotry
>european
i love this 4chan lol

>>106103168
They're correct though.
The EU Commission and joint market authorities of the EU member states put out a document recently explaining their position on the matter:
https://commission.europa.eu/document/8af13e88-6540-436c-b137-9853e7fe866a_en

Under its sixth key principle it cautions with:

> Terms to avoid:
> * Terms that give the trader the unilateral right to cease, modify or withdraw the purchased digital content or services or the purchased in-game virtual currencies at any moment in an unfair manner
> [..]
> * Terms giving unilateral rights to traders to remove content or features in the video game at any moment, particularly if the content or feature is purchasable for consumers, and consumers could expect it to remain at the time of purchase.

>>106105943
fuckin bet on it

>>106102394
>it does not allow the consumer to make an informed purchase.
sure it does, you know the company you're dealing with and their history (or not, in which case you know EOS is "any time"). spend your money accordingly.

>>106103293
You've got about three months of time before all the signatures have been checked, and then it's a total of 6 months before initial hearings start, iirc.

That said - the EU won't have to pass any new laws for this, because it's actually all already covered by existing legislative packages. The only things needed are stronger enforcement and better consumer awareness. So basically; you'll get a huge awareness campaign and the authorities are going to ramp up enforcement. (Which, actually, they recently already have begun to do.)

The actual fun thing? It's all based on clarification of the interpretation of the existing law as it already is, and has been since 2005 when the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (UCPD) came into being next to the Unfair Contract Terms Directive (UCTD) of '93. So this *will* infact apply retroactively by a good 20 years; and the best the industry can hope for is the authorities will go easy on the fines given the age of the crime.

>>106106415
That's a fanfic

>>106106285
>appo
itoddlers cant even play back webms, do you seriously expect them to have any useful software whatsoever?

>>106106735
pajeetdroid normies are no different, they are stuck behind the european cuck filter when they put it in place

>>106106807
android can't even screen record or stream properly
no functional terminal
no real display server
phonecucks don't even have real keyboards lmao

>>106107005
not entirely true. you can install tmux and use grep cp ls and all the basics

you can sudo apt install and everything

I recommend separating the server into three distinct services and vendor locking the first one into AWS, the second one into Google Cloud and the third one into MS Azure.

>>106107056
but can you run mpv from a terminal to play back media?
can you actually run something with X11?
can you mess around with your entire system?
can you use the entire system with only a terminal, without needing a gui?
can you stream your entire screen over rtmp using ffmpeg?

>>106107115
Use case?

>>106095114 (OP)
maybe don't make a liveslop game and consider kys

>>106106560
It's not.
See >>106106343 where you can already see some of this, as pertains to in-app purchases unlawfully being taken away from consumers.

Read the document. Its main goal is to give publishers cautionary guidelines to avoid being fined by the market authorities - which will start doing their enforcement work based on their revised interpretation of, largely, the UCPD. Which has existed since '05.

>>106102806
>>106105471
>no replies to these
kek, the Thorjeet got BTFO so hard he left the thread

>>106107899
usecase, i want to use my fucking computer

>>106095114 (OP)
This isn’t law and the parliament certainly won’t give a shit about an entertainment medium that’s fleeting and 100% based on a SaaS business philosophy that all major European companies also use (ie SAP). This is not going to make a dent to the industry and you gravely overestimate the power of this petition.

You cannot under any circumstances force a software developer in any industry to sustain servers forever or give up source code. That’s twisting their arm and people there know that; the consortium of game publishers is enough and will already sound the alarm to the fragile tech industry Europe is clinging on for gibs

>>106102713
The vast majority of people don’t realize this and are brainlets. Look at your post and ask why it was ignored. You are surrounded by idiots and young game devs that are easily scared

>>106106399
making the case that the buyer has had their purchase taken away after the sale was completed, is means to an end. whether or not i, or any individual, buys games from companies with shitty practices is besides the point - just like you not seeing a problem with said practices is besides the point. the point is to discourage and minimise game destruction.

also, it's generally agreed that scamming people who didn't do their research is not "fair game".

>>106108908
>calls others brainlets and idiots
>thinks it's about "sustaining servers forever"
jej, classic

>>106095114 (OP)
if we're talking about judaic programming techniques nothing comes close to hardware backed attestation. lure people to your ecosystem and 10 years later implement attestation controls as a requirement to exist on it. google did it and it successfully killed an entire global custom ROM community. the few places left are degenerated wastelands full of pajeets and not worth delving into so it's effectively dead.

>>106110008
>google did it and it successfully killed an entire global custom ROM community.
sauce?

>>106106343
The smoking gun you had was posted from March and was used to enforce the ban of bait-and-switch practices that some predatory gachas used to do.
A bit of a reach to equate the regulation of digital currency and items with games itself hitting EOL.

>>106095114 (OP)
Why are you trying to work around this law? The only time you would be required to release the server binary is if you have decided to take down all of your own servers. At which point anyone choosing to self-host the server cannot be considered as a lost sale for you. What you are proposing is nothing short of spite, rather than a legitimate strategy to protect your own economic interests.

If you hate gamers so much, why are you in the business of making video games?

>reeee, why i can't add cocaine to coca cola anymore
Because that's the law, that's why.

>>106095114 (OP)
YOu;re an enormous cancerous faggot though

>>106095114 (OP)
>sell a live service
>stop the live service