Thread 106154185

Wayland is now as old as Xorg was when we gave up on Xorg for being too old and started Wayland. Is it time to give up on Wayland and start something new with a better design?

Yes
I'll make the logo

>>106154185 (OP)
you mean like xlibre?

>>106154185 (OP)
XLibre until Arcan.

>>106154285
Arcan is older that Wayland

>>106154285
is arcan compatible with x11 programs? does it have a community or just 1 schizo dev? not complaining, sometimes schizos are better than communities

>>106154355
>is arcan compatible with x11 programs?
if the compositor supports them then yes on github under the Arcan tag the only compositor that supports x11 out of the box is Durden if im not mistaken

>>106154310
And? It doesn't have a massive corporation behind it trying to force the world to use it, has been usable for longer, and is spearheaded by one person with minimal funding.
>>106154355
Nonexistent ecosystem because it's so esoteric. The main dev doesn't care because he doesn't want to compete directly with display servers anyway (focused on a greater vision). It can use both X11 and Wayland apps but you'd need to set them up correctly to conform to Arcan's security model. Basically if we want it to be an accessible alternative we need people to build an ecosystem. It's a complex system but the work to make a traditional DE/WM isn't actually that hard cus everything needed to do so is exposed through Lua and main dev's DE "Durden" exemplifies most features.

>>106154512
durden is gay

>>106154185 (OP)
has anyone figured out how to capture the screen with ffmpeg in Wayland?

>>106154568
you don't need to do that anyway

>>106154185 (OP)
Reminder that the actual issues of X that existed back then have been fixed with DRI3. Back then X had legit performance issues, they are all resolved now.

>>106154867
It still can't save compositing. Only Wayland can make optimal use of multiplane overlays and avoid burning shader cores for the simplest of tasks.

Today I reminder them: https://gitgud.io/CrunkLord420/crunkbench

>>106155119
what this means? bad latency in Wayland?

>>106155119
What if Xorg is just slow at triggering the light?

>>106154568
Why would you need to do that? Are you trying to spy on someone?

>>106154185 (OP)
X (a.k.a X11) which is the protocol is 41 years old retard.
Wayland is indeed shit. But your primary concern should be going back to primary school and retaking maths and reading classes again.

>>106155350
The light is triggered by the kernel, as well as the mouse movement. The mouse movement is technically triggered before the LED to give a more conservative estimate.

>>106155318
wayland has a 1-2 frame delay

>>106155679
The kernel does not control the light in Xorg. It's configured by xkb on both X and Wayland. See "setxkbmap" and the associated configs. Kernel controls like kbdrate are ignored.

>>106155837
Look at the code, it changes the led directly through /sys/class/leds. Try this:
echo "0" | sudo tee /sys/class/leds/input2::numlock/brightness
(change input2 to your input device), it will bypass x11 and wayland and change the numlock led state

>>106154561
good one faggot

>>106155119
>numlock makes a difference in waymeme
kek

Does wayland have hardware cursor support yet or does it still slow down to the fps of the proggie you are running?

>>106156785
Only in full screen exclusive stuff like video games IF you set certain options and your hardware supports, but otherwise Wayland has laggy cursor input.

>>106154568
Why ffmpeg? What's wrong with OBS or Spectacle?

>>106156006
You're admitting that the kernel is not actually handling the input, but is instead just receiving LED signals from the userspace, which is at the mercy of the display server.
It ought to be instantaneous, though. Xorg does and will update 1000 times per second if you move your mouse.

Xorg feels better in my opinion however after upgrading my gpu to a 9070 XT I've been forced into using Wayland because things are broken and will never be fixed (like Hardware Cursors). I hope the trannies that giggle over killing Xorg suffer for all eternity after facing judgement

>>106155666
you can't read basic english, satan

>>106154568
>capture the screen with ffmpeg in Wayland?
Sounds like retarded but still possible nonetheless
https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-devices.html#kmsgrab

>>106154568
Also, with xwayland bridge you can use x11grab probably?

nu-devs are obsessed with shoving ever-increasing latency down everyone's throat

>>106159918
have to wipe out the memory of smooth applications or webshitters may get a bad reputation

>>106154185 (OP)
>wayland
>can't control your PC when the monitor is off
IT'S NOT A BUG IT'S A FEATURE

>>106159456
write down the math retard.

>>106156785
It has better support for multiplane than X does dipshit.

>>106160623
no it doesn't

>>106160670
Given COSMIC is the only DE I know of that actually uses the multi-plane AMDGPU features, yes, in fact it does, dumb nigger. Why do you lie?

>>106160794
X11 is just a protocol. An X server can use as many planes as are available if it's written that way.

>>106154185 (OP)
>Wayland is now as old as Xorg was
The X server protocol is way older than that

How old exactly?

>>106154185 (OP)
Wayland doesn't support shit, it's a joke.

>>106160794
no it doesn't

It's taken until 2025, 18 years after Windows Vista got its Wayland equivalent WDDM and 23 years after MacOS got there's with Quartz Extreme to make Wayland mandatory in Gnome. It's almost as if proprietary software has an incentive to make things work. It took IBM's "Big Blue" mainframe business to make Red Hat still viable too.

>>106161642
kek

>>106162790
DWM != Wayland. DWM == Compiz. DWM is a compositor grafted onto the side of the classic windowing system.

you also have to take into account that most of the trannies developing Wayland will be dead in the next 2-3 years

>>106154512
>everything needed to do so is exposed through Lua
Oh damn I actually might look into this, very cool.

>>106154185 (OP)
A superior design already exists in the Arcan project. It just needs more investment and polish. Imagine how good desktop Linux would be if Arcan got Wayland level hype and investment...

>>106165927
it would be equally shit except for maybe network transparency.
Arcan is basically Wayalnd

>>106165927
>A superior design
How so?

I love these schizo threads
>wayland is shit
>source
>it has trannies and dei
That's it.

>>106166347
>cognitive dissonance
the post

>>106154285
Arcan is a whole different thing.
Wayland is just the result of taking the middle man called X.org from most modern programs to talk to the window manager/compositor.
(read "modern program" as anything that doesn't run on motif or old as fuck toolkits)
Arcan meanwhile is something that was discussed early in Wayland development and was quickly abandoned: It's becoming a system compositor. Not only wants to drive your monitor, it wants to do other incredible things, like for example kill the terminal logic and evolve the tui, integrate networking in a manner that makes sense with modern rendering pipelines, etc, etc. The fucker has an almost psychotic way of writing, but his project is ambitious. Too ambitious.
I'm pretty sure if Arcan someday gained traction and began to be deployed massively we will see these "Arcan sucks because it doesn't support muh special snowflake setup/it has eurofags developing it"

>>106160670
>Xorg
>support multiplane
Kek, no. X11 does shit these days. All of that is managed through other shit and X11 stands like a old and deaf orchestra conductor.

>>106166408
t. chud

What's the actual problem with Xorg that makes people want to replace it?

if Wayland had EWMH it would be the unconditional king

If Xorg is so great why no usable and sucessful desktop operating system used it?
>>106166448
Too much fragile code to comply a 40+
year old spec just to become a shit version of dbus/insert your favorite ipc here.
>>106166408
So arcan is the systemd of display servers?

>>106166448
It just works and is too old for corpos to control and corrupt it in any meaningful manner.

>>106166512
> If Xorg is so great why no usable and sucessful desktop operating system used it?
I don't know if you've noticed, but operating system diversity is not a thing anymore. Back in the day numerous different unix operating systems used X.

>>106166448
The primary issue Gaylandtroons refer to is security, which is a code word for requiring a modicum of user responsibility.

>>106167471
I'm talking about Windows, BeOS, macOS, even fucking ChromeOS nor Android use X11.
The operating systems you're talking about were corpo shit UNIX or VMS.
X11 is cancer from the UNIX wars and I'm glad RedHat is killing it.
t. using X11 since the 90s

>>106167894
are low iq retard? no one is using Wayland either, whats even more baffling is that not even BSD want it lol.
you made the argument not me

>>106167492
isn't Qubes OS with Xorg more secure than any distro with Wayland?

>>106167989
>smartest amerimutt

>>106154510

afair Xarcan is a "regular" arcan client unless you add -redirect then it requires the Arcan WM to synch metadata back and forth.

I didn't find any special X sauce in the Pipeworld code and it's running chrome in the demo ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgHMU7m9-I8

>>106154355

At least two devs sponsored by NLnet at least:

"I am also happy to say that we have received two new NLnet grants, one administrated by me, the other by Cipharius. Both of these build on the networking layer. "

Someone working on native support for QT clients:

https://codeberg.org/vimpostor/qtarcan

That seems quite far along, I could run qutebrowser through it at least.

>>106154185 (OP)
Yes, it's called Arcan.

>>106166439
>>106170588
We jews are the original chuds. What about it, goy?

>>106154185 (OP)
But I do. Well not currently. I had to disable Transmission after I got my roommate's Internet shutdown and now that I have my own I can't get Transmission re-enabled

>>106154185 (OP)
fuck it, just use DRM