Let's unravel the truth behind what happened 2000 years ago.

It's said Jesus is crucified on a lunar eclipse before passover. This occurs in 30 and 33 AD. If we go with the 30 AD one, that puts us at 29 years and ~4 months after the winter equinox of 1 BC, which is what we celebrate as christmas now. It's the death and birth of the sun, right? Well, how long is a saturn return? It's 29.5 years on average with some variance. With the dates from the bible, we're precisely saying he is the reborn sun that replaces his father Saturn.

I don't think these years reflect the years he actually lived. I think it's telling some hidden message about him. However, it is possible that rituals were performed on these days to make the myth seem real. Maybe he really was crucified on the day they knew there would be an eclipse. Ancient astronomers could probably calculate that.

Now, to the bloodlines...

I have an idea that I'm working on which is that Cleopatra VII's daughter Cleopatra Selene II is the "Italian slave girl" that Parthia's King Phraates IV married, so their son Phraates V is the grandson of Cleopatra along with being the prince to be King of Kings of Persia/Parthia. Ralph Ellis says Phraates IV must marry some unknown daughter of Cleopatra, but why can't it be Selene II herself?

Caesar could still fit in somehow too. I don't know where Caesarion went or if he actually died. I've been going on the idea that he went east and became part of the Adiabenan dynasty (maybe the father of Monobazus I), but my new thought is that he was fostered by Juba I and became Juba II. This is Luke Skywalker fostered in the desert. Remember?

Caesar impregnates Cleopatra almost immediately after conquering her nation. Seems reasonable that Cleopatra may want to swap out the baby immediately and send it away so that she has some leverage. Why would Rome commit damnatio memoriae on a dead child like Caesarion? It makes even more sense if the truth is they didn't even know where he was.

Read the bible to learn about the historical Jesus.

>>17754804
Read CNN to learn the truth about politics.

>>17754803 (OP)
The next key figure is this "Helena of Adiabene", and Selene = Helene. It could be two different people, but what if these are the same people? The only thing is that Selene II dies in 5 BC, so I'm thinking Helena of Adiabene could be Selene III and possibly the daughter of Caesarion too.

We can again use Star Wars for some guidance. Luke Skywalker saves his sister from the slaver king in the desert (a different desert than where Luke was fostered though). This is Caesarion/Juba II getting Cleopatra Selene II from Phraates IV. They eventually marry (which means Caesarion would be marrying his half sister) and have one kid at least.

So, to summarize:

- Phraates V = son of Cleopatra Selene II and Phraates IV
- Juba II = son of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar, aka Caesarion
- Ptolemy of Mauretania = son of Caesarion and Cleopatra Selene II
- Cleopatra Selene II = daughter of Cleopatra VII and Mark Antony
- Helena of Adiabene = aka Cleopatra Selene III, daughter of Cleopatra Selene II and Caesarion (it is known that Selene II had a daughter with Juba II, but not what her name was)

In this narrative I'm constructing, Phraates V is also Monobazus I, and his sons are Izates II and Monobazus II. Izates can be compared to "Isas", the name Jesus is known to Arabs as, and I think it means "son of Isis", and Cleopatra VII was Isis. So, Caesarion was Izates I, and his grandson through his daughter Cleopatra Selene III (to Cleopatra Selene II) was Izates II.

This basically ties everything together.

Izates ironically was born in 1 BC (supposedly), and given superstitious families, that could have even been on purpose.

I think "ben Panthera" of Jesus ben Panthera may refer to Phraates IV. "Jesus ben Panthera" is really saying that it's Izates the son of the Parthian Shah, King of Kings. In this lineage, he would actually be the grandson, but "ben" can denote multiple generations too.

>>17754804
Look up critical readings of the bible.

>>17754804
Jesus never existed lmao. Only paganism is real, have fun burning in Tartarus

>>17754866
Why do you think Rome tried so hard to mythologize him? The doctrine that he was a real person came from the east, and they had to kind of admit it but then wash it away witih philosophy.

>>17754852
I have more thoughts continuing this, but they are more scattered and less important.

One is that John the Baptist does die in 30 AD. It could just be coincidence, but I think this might be Monobazus I (Phraates V, which makes him about 50 years old at death). This would be the Image of Edesa as well. When he "baptizes" Jesus, he's basically passing the crown of Persia to him. It's a coronation ritual.

I had another idea that maybe Cleopatra VII doesn't die in 30 BC, and she is the actual Italian slave girl given to Phraates IV. Maybe Caesar hated her enough to do it. Phraates V is conceived in 19 BC though, so this would have been a pretty incredible conception. Theoretically possible, but unlikely. I only say this as an alternative if it's too hard to explain how Selene II could have been in two places. Another subalternative to this is if Phraates V wasn't born in 19 BC but actually earlier. Phraates IV received his slave girl in 37 BC but doesn't conceive an heir for 18 years? Seems a bit unlikely, unless she was underage as Cleopatra Selene II would have been.

>>17754803 (OP)
>It's said Jesus is crucified on a lunar eclipse before passover.
More I wanted to add to this:

The point about the lunar eclipse on the hill cannot fully be grasped without understanding the ancient metaphysical view known as the "path of souls". This conjecture states that people have "life essences" or "souls" that shoot up into the sky when they die and land in a distant star, or conversely, that the light in the sky comes down to earth and becomes the consciousness of the person who is born on that day. This is the story of light. So, it's not just a cool symbolic coincidence that these astronomical events happened involving god symbols that Jesus represented. Some people believe that these occurrences literally mean his spirit came from the Sun or Saturn. He's a literal solar avatar.

>>17754804
>>17754852
Luke 1 - Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Its astonishing to me how somehow can attempt to "unravel the truth behind what happened 2000 years ago." while so quickly disregarding the set of documents that are most closely tied to Jesus and written by the people who knew him personally.

>>17754913
One other meta commentary to make:

I've observed a few elements that make completely putting together these pieces of evidence extremely difficult.

1. The changing of king's titles. Kings take on new names when they become king. For example, Phraates V could have lost his name when he was kicked out of Parthia. If he lived what would he have been known as?

2. Incest makes family trees confusing, and it also gives people some reason to be very secretive about them.

3. There are two or three lines that can be studied at length on their own. You have the Parthian angle with Phraates. You have other rival families like Tiridates II that some people think play into this story. Someone on here thinks Arsham = Tiridates II and that Monobazus I = son of Tiridates II. Then, there's the Adiabenan family, which is obviously central. It's just a question of how they got there and who is who. Then, there's the Mauretanian family.

We haven't even yet covered Herod's many sons and daughters or the Emesene dynasty, so let's add that to the picture real quick.

Izates II married the Characene princess Symacho. I haven't dug up anything on her yet, but an interesting thing about Characene (supposedly in Babylon) is that it's also known as Mesene, and there was an "Emesene" dynasty supposedly based in Syria. Maybe these are unrelated, but it's suspicious, especially because the Emesene dynasty is a line priest-kings, and they were even emperors of Rome at one point later on. They also worshipped the black stone Elgabalus, which is super interesting because the kaaba was a real thing long before Muslims.

>>17754949
Half of the New Testament was thrown away and burned by Rome.

Another connection: Cleopatra of Jerusalem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_of_Jerusalem

She is the 5th wife of Herod and has two sons who end up as tetrarchs. I wonder if this could actually be Helena of Adiabene, which would be Cleopatra Selene III according to my estimations.

This goes some way to explaining how the siege of Masada and the rest of the Jewish "Revolt" ended up being perceived as Jewish and how the northern Judeans were more loyal to Jesus.

>>17754984
Even if that were true that wouldn't matter. Rome could've added whatever they wanted. The gospels already existed in places like Ethiopia and Egypt. and we can cross reference their copies with roman copies and find where things were added and taken away. This is why we know the ending of Mark is not original.

The gospels were simply too popular to fake, add, or remove from.

>>17754994
There's no citation for this, but Wikipedia does say:

>Cleopatra [of Jerusalem] also was daughter of Simon Boethus and Cleopatra Selene.

>>17755003
>The gospels were simply too popular to fake, add, or remove from.
What? That's a ridiculous statement to make. Rome burned the library of Alexandria. They were capable of a lot.

You also speak as though there was no disagreement on the matter. There was a massive amount of disagreement.

>>17755010
>You also speak as though there was no disagreement on the matter. There was a massive amount of disagreement.
there is no disagreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands_Library_Papyrus_P52

P52. The oldest copy of John we have, dated 80-150 AD and was found in Egypt.
This was made 200 years before Christianity has any power in Rome.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_66

P66 another John manuscript found out of Egypt. This one is complete, and is also a word for word exact copy of the King James bible's version of John.

You're wrong. The Romans did not have as much influence as you think.

>>17755018
How about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

>>17755070
what about them? theyre old testament and predate Jesus and the Roman empire.

>>17755073
No, the Dead Sea Scrolls were contemporary to Jesus, and a leading theory is that they were written by the Essenes, which is with who John and Jesus studied.

>>17754804
You are correct, only you have to read it in the context that these are Greek literary tales written after the fact based on a man who lived but the authors never met, though they did have access to some of his saying and oral stories about him.
If you understand that context and can read Koine Greek you can indeed learn a lot.

>>17754804
Nuff said.

Bump. Anyone want to actually engage with what I'm saying? Save your christian ideology for /pol/.

Alright, I'm going to do the historicity of the Jews now.

To discuss the historicity of "the Jews", we have to address the people as well as the legends of the book, the Torah. As it turns out, these are two separate people, for the most part.

We have:

1. The silk road cartel arising from local merchant guilds. These merchants operated temples where donations were taken, and the most convincing lie was the most profitable. I believe this is the root of the "chosen race" ideology because it's really about compelling an audience to give up their sense of reality in favor of an all-seeing, all-knowing god that NEEDS MONEY (cue George Carlin).

2. Pharaonic and Minoan bloodlines. The first Egyptian king was King Menes, called the Beekeeper. All subsequent pharaohs had this title, and this eventually passed down to the Essenes in the Judean desert, who were also called Beekeepers. Jesus was a Beekeeper, and then the Merovingian dynasty was decorated with bees. Actually, there are bees in many places. There are also the Scythian royals with bees, and there's the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus. These are the original and true Jews, which basically doesn't give them any special ethnicity as opposed to general Indo-European, Phoenician, or things of that nature.

>>17757357
However, we can say a few things about the movements that led them to that position.

- The Atlanteans were said to be the first to colonize Egypt. Plato said this explicitly. Menes would be thousands of years after this, but let's put that aside for the moment.
- The Phoenicians were said to be the dominant naval power of the Med, but we have little record of them because Rome destroyed it all.
- The Minoans were the dominant naval power prior to 1600 BC when Crete was destroyed. We have their writing though, and everything about the culture lines up with being Phoenician. For instance, there are two cultures in the world who have been able to make purple dye from murex shells: Minoans and Phoenicians. I think the Minoans are Phoenician.
- I believe Phoenicia was said to be an extension of Egypt, almost like a colony of sorts.
- Judea is close to Lebanon where Phoenician timber was hewed. Jerusalem is in the middle of nowhere and had a tiny population for most of the bronze age. I think we can say Lebanon and Syria is the more relevant "native Judean" population up until Jerusalem becomes relevant as part of the silk road. So, we can say that Judea is essentially Phoenician, which is Minoan, which is Greek, which is also Egyptian.

As mentioned in Christian historicity, he was a Pharaoh, which means he was the true ruler of Judea. The Merovingian dynasty after him were also true Judeans. This bloodline may have made it into the Carolingian dynasty as well as black nobility houses like the Welf house of Bavaria. I'm not completely sure if that did or didn't happen, but I know those houses at least pretended to be Atlantean/Pharaonic (and therefore "true Judean").

I will finish this later.

>>17754803 (OP)
Jesus was never crucified. Read the Quran (the Word of God). God explains what really happened in it.

https://quranenc.com/en/browse/english_saheeh