I very much get religion, but I cannot understand the Jesus thing in Christianity. Him dying somehow relating to the rest of humanity then being able to gain salvation. And it all being contingent on aknowledging him. I don't get it. Yet billions take it quite seriously

It's a Jewish grift

If you don't get it then congrats you aren't a golem npc

He's" saving" you from problems he is threatening you with lol. That is extortion not salvation

>>17762215 (OP)
Jesus is an embodiment of the concept of Truth.

>>17762246
In what way?

>>17762246
How truthful was he when he said he would return in the apostles lifetimes?

>>17762215 (OP)
Idiots thinking sin can be transferred like some Jewish financial derivative...some dumb shit right there

Have you read everything the New Testament says about this subject, and have you read everything the Old Testament says about sacrifices?

>>17762303
No. Surely I should have heard it at some point in school or church daycare or confirmation camp if it was sensible and faith reinforcing.

>>17762315
>Surely I should have heard it at some point in school or church daycare or confirmation camp
Surely.
>No
This may explain the confusion. According to the bible, the Lord took upon Himself the sins of His people. The Father poured out on Him all of the wrath which the people of God had merited by their sinful lives. This is why His death frees them from the penalty of the law, because under the law they are already dead, punished in full, having been nailed to the cross.

Saving faith is not "acknowledgement". Faith consists of three parts: notitia or "understanding", assensus or "assent", and fiducia or "trust". It is by trust in Christ and reliance upon His finished work that the believer draws near to His sacrifice and apprehends His righteousness. At this moment just as his sins are imputed to Christ on the cross the righteous life of Christ is imputed to the believer, so that when the Father looks upon the Christian to judge him He recognizes only His beloved, sinless Son, which scripture calls adoption as sons. It is for these reasons union with Christ through faith is able to reconcile us with God.

>>17762315
>>17762335
By the way, the books of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews are particularly relevant.

>>17762335
>I'm gonna torture you. Unless I sacrifice myself to myself to save you from myself. Now grovel to me for this existence nobody asked for.

Fuck off

>>17762215 (OP)
Some people overcomplicate it but it's pretty simple.
At first there was no death. Everything permanent.

Then evil came into the world. It isn't good if everything is permanent if that would include evil. So impermanence came. Hence death.

How do you fix this? Resurrection, restoring something to that state of permanence.

The problem? Everyone is or will be evil. You need something completely and permanently non-evil. Resurrection needs to be tied to that.

Who's the only one like that? God himself.

There's no resurrection without a death, so God needs to die to be resurrected. How do you do that? Have a bit of of him come in a form that can die.

That's Jesus!

>And it all being contingent on aknowledging him.
Jesus is goodness itself incarnate. The whole point of the resurrection is to make a world of nothing but goodness again. If someone doesn't acknowledge Jesus, they aren't acknowledging goodness itself. If they acknowledge Jesus, then they do.

>>17762340
Your jewgod created lucifer

He's more guilty of sin than any human

Stop gaslighting people to worship your deranged kike

>>17762278
100%: https://tektonticker.blogspot.com/2022/05/today-i-have-special-guest-piece-by.html

He _literally_ came on the clouds with his angels in 70 AD

>>17762351
You've almost certainly never been tempted directly by Satan but you've still chosen to do evil. You've done it in this world of impermanence and would do it if you were in a world of permanence too.

>>17762335
Oh, so it's like that jewish chicken thing. Don't care, and I'm still mystified why 2 billion people would.
>>17762340
This makes a lot more sense theologically, and as the crux of a religion, tho I've never before seen it worded like that.

>>17762351
Have fun burning

>>17762367
Oh ok this was in bad faith from the start got it

>>17762374
Nope. Obsessed about mormonism recently, but the Jesus stuff just feels out of place and pointless and makes me just not care as much about it as I would otherwise. Like I was never able to care about any other form of christianity.

>>17762359
>you're satanic
>says the guy who worships the father of Lucifer

Lol ok

>>17762353
Christian copium

Final judgment of man, all nations will see, coming with an army, all unfulfilled and can only point to the second coming

My understanding (based on a week of attending bible camp, many summers ago) is back then, in a judicial system I am not familiar with, people could be "absolved" of their crimes by sacrificing something pure.

Their idea of 'pure' is any being that never committed a crime, or has an evil nature (like a snake), so they went with lambs.

I believe it's roughly 1 lamb = 1 get out of jail for free, so I am not sure how many lambs are needed to save the entirety of humanity, but let's say there's never going to be enough.

So, humanity is at trial, and God is the judge. We are doomed to hell for eternity.

Instead of allowing us to party in hell with Satan, God decided to step down, and as an all powerful deity, sacrificed himself (as Jesus, who is simultaneously the Son of God and God himself) in order to save us all an infinite amount of times.

I believe this is where Jesus is referred to as "The Lamb of God", as he was supposedly our sacrifice. And amidst all of the torture (from being crucified), not once did he think a bad thought, therefore he remained pure and humanity was saved, yay.

>>17762389
There might have been a miscommunication. I wasn't calling you Satanic - my point was quite the opposite, that Satan has almost certainly never directly interacted with you. My point was to emphasize how little relevance Satan really has there. He's the first one who chose to do evil, but even absent his direct influence, everyone else does the same.

>>17762391
>Final judgment of man
You're accidentally conflating multiple events - while this was a judgement it wasn't the final judgement. As that article discussed, history records that the Christians in the city understood the message and got out. It was a matter of trust Jesus' message and escape, or disbelieve, walking yourself into your own fate when nearly everyone in the city was killed shortly thereafter

>all nations will see
They did!

>coming with an army
He came with an army of angels and then shortly after this the Roman army came...this is 200% fulfilled for sure!

>and can only point to the second coming
The term "second coming" is nowhere in the Bible. Jesus had come many times before his birth (to Abraham, to Jacob, to Moses, and more) and came multiple times afterwards (to the disciples, to Paul, to the 500 witnesses, and more). This coming to Jerusalem was another such coming. When the resurrection of the world comes that'll be another such coming.

>>17762450
More Christian copium

He didn't come back and bring his kingdom on earth, judge evil, take up his followers

He failed his own prophecy. Stop deflecting

>>17762215 (OP)
it relates to how people throughout history till today want glory but will reject it because sacrifice and dedication are attached to it.

>>17762478
>>17762478
>He didn't come back and bring his kingdom on earth
He did! We call it Christendom

>judge evil
Everyone who didn't heed his word and escape, which those who believe in him did, was destroyed along with Jerusalem. Either death or slavery. He spared the righteous from this but the evil refused to listen and perished.

>take up his followers
You're thinking of the final resurrection of us all, which again is a separate event from this

>>17762532
>Christendom

Split into dozens of warring factions. Constant false prophecies. Failed excorcisms. Dead religion. Worthless fake and gay laws written by dead jewish men that no one follows. The only good christian groups do charity work. The rest are fucking conmen, schizophrenics, and death cults.

Everyone who disagrees with my worldview

Enjoy burning in hell assholes

>>17762215 (OP)
It's theodicy, a concept which doesn't translate to asia (where you are from) because conditions in asia are similar to those of the pre-christian world. The dichotomy of man and state has not triggered the rise of monotheism. That may seem absurd with so many asian despots and the mightiest state in the world, China, but chinese heaven reflects an understanding of the world as always multiple. There are cycles and dynasties and other nations in the asian consciousness of a state. What's missing is the magian/jewish schizophrenia and apocalyptic confrontation with legitimate authority, reframing the moral issue... but I digress.

Jesus is revolutionary humanism. At the time, religion was high philosophy of jews muttering to their inscrutable god and gloomy pagan priests retreating from worldly chaos. Nobody had answers, Rome was more powerful than any god. They knew about evil, they knew God created it, and the going theory was humanity itself was evil, hence the punishment. Enter Jesus, who formed a physical conduit between the goodness of God and mankind. (A second one, since the original connection was evil'd) God touched a sinful man, made him clean again, and this is absolutely central to the new religion of Christianity. Ordinary living people who sin, (aka NOT ancestors or saints or state officials) are the center of the new religion. Its consequent vilification of authorities, who hold worldly power but are ruled by "satan,"* is almost unimaginable outside of western civilization. Most people either never picked that fight with the secular state, or never won.

*A pre-established attempt at theodicy from jewish thinkers, who said there was no way God did evil personally, he had to have an agent. Originally satan was just random angels.

>>17762655
Christendom is what is elevating humanity from a pre-industrial state. Haven't you noticed all the prophecies about how the Messiah's kingdom would raise the world to a state of prosperity and health never before seen? Blooming deserts, long life spans, people literally living in the heavens - the Messiah's Kingdom is what is doing it all.

Think about it. Not Rome, not China, not Egypt, not India, not Babylon, not Persia - none of them could ever get past the same level of technology.

We only see true advancement start to emerge as Christ becomes acknowledged, and only in the places where he is acknowledged. That's clearly not simply a matter of the passage of time, since in the New World things were exactly the same in the year 1500 as they had been in the year 15, despite the presence of civilizations on the same level as Egypt, Rome, or Persia.

Only the Messiah can be the foundation for a great civilization. We see this now as Europe turns away from him. At the beginning of last century they truly, directly, owned the world. Now today all of that is gone: a graying peninsula getting poorer and poorer.

The path that leads upwards is small, winding, and hard to find. Societies need a guide to keep going upwards, and that is Christ

>>17763549
atheists won the space race, chinese and arabs build megastructures. This was an argument 200 years ago but in hindsight european civilization was more important than christianity.

>>17763599
>atheists won the space race
Is this a reference to Soviet Communism? How'd that turn out?

Atheism is looking like the least sustainable of all religious ideas. No non-religious populations that I'm aware of even have a birth rate sufficient to replace their present populations.

>chinese and arabs build megastructures.
Did they do this before or after Christendom brought industry to the world?

>european civilization
Was nothing special in the pre-Christian era, and has fallen to ceasing to be special now that they've become post-Christian. What does this indicate was the thing making it special?

>>17762239
>study physics.
>why?
>so physics can save you.
>from what?
>from what physics will do to you if you don't study it.

>>17762264
By definition.
Thats what the definiton of "Jesus' is.
The name "Jesus" means, "the way, the truth, and the life".

>>17762215 (OP)
sacrifice was a very important concept in many ancient cultures but I imagine it doesnt have the same impact today
thats my theory at least

>>17762278
Learn this lesson from the fig tree:

As soon as its twigs get tender
and its leaves come out,
you know that summer is near.

I have seen heaven and earth dissappear.

>>17763653
Yes, soviet communists won the space race. How it "turned out" is not relevant. It's one of the examples you gave, living in the heavens. Chinese and arab civilizations were obviously uplifted by european as they remain nonchristian while being successful. It's a european world order because everyone uses european technology, not everyone is christian. Saying they're "influenced by christianity" is meaningless if they don't follow christ.

>>17762297
>sin can be transferred
Like birds hovering overhead

>>17762297
>>17763690
sin doesn't exist fucktard

>>17763683
>Yes, soviet communists won the space race
What's your criteria for "winning" this? Soviet Communists don't have any space assets any longer since they've ceased to exist as a government.

>How it "turned out" is not relevant.
That's the entire point - what effect do different ideologies have on their civilizations over time?

Historically speaking Soviet Communism was the briefest flash in the plan. It didn't even last a century. And then Russia re-Christianized at a shocking rate, look at pic related compared to https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2014/02/10/russians-return-to-religion-but-not-to-church/

>Chinese and arab civilizations were obviously uplifted
And that's the whole point: to uplift the world, be the shining city on the hill

>Saying they're "influenced by christianity" is meaningless if they don't follow christ.
Not at all! Christ's teachings guided his followers upwards, and they in turn guided the rest of the world. Like anything involving people it was a bumpy process, but the job got done.

And it will keep getting done. Watch as the demographic crisis hits harder and harder because China and many other nations wouldn't listen to the instruction not to murder millions of children. Their populations are already graying. It will be those who didn't that will succeed in the long run, we already see this from economic projections.

>>17763692
Sin, by definition, is the mechanism of your death. It is the flaw in your code. It is your inability to save yourself. Your denial of semantics will not save you. Tick tock.

>>17763692

>>17763705
They got there first and arguably influenced later American space experiments almost as much as the nazis did. Neither are beacons of christianity btw. Christendom is strong in third world countries and weak in glorious heathen empires. Whereas european states are totally dominant wherever they go in the world.

>>17763727
>They got there first
After being one of the premiere Christian nations in the world for centuries and would return to being so shortly thereafter.
It's like a plane. They turned off their engine. Momentum still carried them forward for a while, but even they could see that it had them slowing down and losing altitude.

You seem to be taking getting to an arbitrary height as winning some race. But putting something into orbit is nothing compared to walking on the moon. Both of those are nothing compared to stable colonies off Earth. And that is nothing compared to reaching another sun. And that is nothing compared to reaching another galaxy. This is a very, very long race. Comparatively, reaching some height barely above the atmosphere is a fraction of a step at the starting line of an ultramarathon.

>Christendom is strong in third world countries
Like anything else, it takes time for it to influence a culture. It needs to get in there and work on people. Most third world countries have been Christian for only a quarter of the time Europe has. If they keep at it, it will be their turn to be on top soon.

>Whereas european states are totally dominant wherever they go in the world
What year are you living in? Almost all European countries, including France, Italy, and Spain, have a lower GDP per capita than Alabama. Take a look at https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/poorest-us-state-rivals-germany-153030529.html

And before Christianity European civilization was nothing special. Persia was its equal: neither could beat the other despite fighting for centuries.

>>17762215 (OP)
>Billions take it seriously.

Yeah, they're called retards. Adults who're literally dumber than toddlers because they reject logic and reason on every level. This is also why they reject science, history, tend to believe in the flat earth and reject evolution.

They're dumb motherfuckers with the hubris to believe their religion gives makes them smarter and more worthy than people actually are *smart and worthy*.

It's gross, they're cattle with defective minds. If I ruled the world they'd all be euthanized.

The Romans adopted Christianity to keep slaves docile.

>>17763755
This is ridiculous. Christianity was nothing special before Rome. Instead of drawing all these arbitrary lines and selecting earthly works to credit to God, just skip to the part where you say they don't matter.

>>17763669
Does "phisics" have agency?

>>17763789
>Christianity was nothing special before Rome
Jesus lived in Rome so this doesn't make much sense o_o

What's more, areas not part of the Roman Empire like Germany and Scandinavia became Christian and were just as successful as areas that had been controlled by Rome.

>>17763653
>Is this a reference to Soviet Communism?
NASA scientists and engineers weren't religious eitheir

>>17762353
>>17763669
>>17763682
Nope

Jesus lied
Apostles died
Golems cried

Get used to it

>>17763851
Why didn't you say "Jesus was Roman" retarded emoji zoomer? Perhaps because Rome tortured and executed the followers of Jesus just like they did previous jews. Without the conversion of pagan Rome, the greatest state in the world, christians would be nothing but rats under the pagan boot. You can of course claim it was all predetermined, but you can't claim christianity was the source of any earthly work when it became great by coopting paganism.

>>17763792
Not my will, but yours be done

>>17763882
Are you going to cite a contemporary poll for this statement?

>>17764149
>Without the conversion of pagan Rome, the greatest state in the world, christians would be nothing but rats under the pagan boot.
In an alternate world where Rome never converts, I see a Christian Germany still beating it, as historically happened.

We don't really need to wonder what happens to non-Christian Rome since we have a historical illustration with North Africa. An integral part of the Roman Empire for centuries. Indeed a rival to it in the early days when it was an independent empire, more than capable of going toe-to-toe with Rome. But it became non-Christian, and became nothing.

>>17764581
>the roman empire was better under christianity
said no one ever

>>17764740
Would you rather live in Italy today or Italy in the first century BC?

I find "How much power did the Central Italian empire have?" to be a very strange metric for the progress of humanity. It was nothing special. It's just another polity. They come and they go. From the German perspective, it would be "we got so much stronger after we became Christian! We were able to defeat Rome!". How one polity is doing compared to others in a bucket of crabs contest to see who is better at killing tells you nothing about human wellbeing as a totality.

And fun fact: if you really want to get technical, after Andreas Palaiologos died the Roman Empire became identical to the extremely Christian Spanish Empire since he gave his Imperial titles to Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. In technological and military terms this was, unquestionably, superior to what Rome had ever been in the pre-Christian days!

This also means that, strictly speaking, Felipe VI the king of Spain is the current sitting Roman Emperor. Rome's last province is Hispania - and it's definitely better today than it was back in the BC!

>>17764804
Pathetic cope to support a bad faith argument. If atheism and islam take over the world, that's God's plan and serves the glory of the church in your mind. It's a pre ordained conclusion which doesn't interest me in terms of argument.

>>17764811
>If atheism and islam take over the world, that's God's plan
Plainly not; if these happen then this would falsify Christianity since it would render Daniel 2:44 false: "the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever". If it doesn't stand forever this prophecy is false.

>>17764826
Wrong. It's God's plan that empirical science performed a Chaos Dunk on the biblical creation narrative and supernatural religious claims in general. It's God's plan that the majority of people believe man came from monkeys, and His true followers be chased into the wilderness to suffer. Say it's God's plan.

>>17763549
Industrial age is built on gluttony of European aristocracy who sought new seasonings for their chicken and greed of merchants riding spices trade.
It's all sins opposite to Christianity.