>create man in the garden Eden
>also create a talking snake and make it the most crafty of the animals (Genesis 3:1)
>place a tree that grants knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17, 3:22)
>tell man not to eat of the tree
>create woman
>talking snake persuades woman to eat from the tree, and the man does too
>God curses them and all their descendents forever
They didn't know about good and evil yet so how are they culpable for doing an 'evil' thing? Why did God create the snake and make it so crafty, knowing what it would lead to? Why did God punish all their descendents for something they didn't do? Before you say something about nature being stained by sin, remember God literally changed human biology to make childbirth more painful as a punisment (Genesis 3:16). Also, God was so powerless he couldn't even persuade one man and one woman to follow a single instruction? Why is he angry when he set everything up to happen this way?

Free Will
The question isn't why God did it. The question is why Eve decided to not trust the words of the Lord?

Desire for more
Desire to usurp God
Desire to be able to violate the Laws that God has set for everyone's own sake

Exact desires shared by all who rebelled against God

>>17763178
Cool non-answer

>>17763178
what motivated the snake to do it

>>17763183
Evil
He knows he is fucked and he wanted to drag as many as he could

>>17763178
>The question is why Eve decided to not trust the words of the Lord?
Why did God make a talking snake and a forbidden tree?
These answers never make any sense, you retards are straight up NPC-tier because you mentally cannot conceptualize the fact that an all-powerful God literally creates the means, and a personal God needs justification for their means, otherwise they are not a rational agent and are thus no better than random chance anyways. Why is this such a struggle for theists to understand?

>>17763178
Adam and eve didn't have free will before eating the apple, they were also incapable to distinguish the good from the evil so your entire point is not valid.
Punishing Adam and Eve would be like making children stand trial: not only they have no idea of what they did and are not capable to take responsbility for it, but it's also responsbility of their guardian (in this case, God) for the damage they caused.
And this is why the whole genesis' story doesn't make any sense.

>>17763195
Satan was granted authority to rule alongside God.
God will never take his gifts back
Thus, Satan still technically rules alongside God and he'll continue to do so until judgement day

>>17763202
Sure they did
They had the Free Will to love God and trust his words, or listen to lies

>>17763178
That's not correct, the snake tricks Eve by saying she won't die from eating it. Taken literally, the snake was correct, and Eve didn't know about good and evil yet so why is she culpable? For wanting wisdom? But wisdom is good (Proverbs 3:13).

>>17763227
That same book tells you that wisdom starts from fearing God
She didn't; she ate it, lured her husband, and the both of them acted like God is not real and he do not know what they did - same mentality as every unbeliever

And they tried to lie and blame each other. How was that wisdom.

PS. Assuming that God is capable of lying is the first sin. Do not fall for that, mate

>>17763151 (OP)
They broke their covenant with him over an apple because a talking snake told them to so he told them to fuck off. He was more pissed with the serpent though, all considered Adam and Eve got off pretty easily.
He then felt bad about it too so he helped their kids out and formed another covenant with them even though Cain and Abel were not much smarter than their parents so he tried to force goodness with strict rules and any disobedience would be harshly punished.
After a while he learned that people have feelings and stuff so he stopped being a fucking asshole killing people and having them walk through the desert for no reason. He then came to earth, told everybody they dont have to do retarded shit like mutilating penises to get his approval and then sacrificed himself and formed yet another covenant, this time with everybody who is willing to listen.
Now its as easy as believing in him, no other prerequisites required. You have to be a total retard to end up in hell after Jesus.

>>17763211
>Satan was granted authority to rule alongside God.
Did God also create Satan?

>>17763254
Yes, to rule alongside him
He choose to use that authority to go against him, though

Like a contracted job. God will not violate the contract but he will not renew it either and Satan shall receive his punishment

>>17763211
>Satan was granted authority to rule alongside God.
Brothers, bring out the firewood.

>>17763258
>Yes, to rule alongside him
>He choose to use that authority to go against him, though
Why?

>>17763262
Love

God is a King
God made his Laws that he will grant everyone a portion of his kingdom to rule alongside him
He will never void that contract because a King who does not follow his Laws is just a Tyrant

>>17763262
Why not?

>God created Satan
>Why?
>Love
The absolute state of Christards

>>17763271
Why wouldnt he create Satan?

>>17763270
That's not a valid answer, God is meant to be a rational agent, the entire point is that he is a personal God. If Gods actions cannot be described through any rational justification, then Gods actions are not personal, they're inherently random, which is atheism at that point.

>>17763277
If you do something there is no reason not to do then thats pretty rational.
So why wouldnt he create Satan? The devil rebelled against him, he either did this out of his free will against Gods wishes or as part of Gods plan because God sees evil as a part of existence or/and because he wants somebody to test humans so he can judge us.

>If you do something there is no reason not to do then thats pretty rational.
...

>>17763287
God's plan is to let everyone decide whether to join him or reject him

Nothing more
It's not a conspiracy. He'll recognize your decision even if it saddens him, for eternity

>>17763291
Is that wrong?

>>17763294
Yes it is wrong, because a rational agent would weigh the pros and cons of their own actions and wouldn't just pick something at random

>>17763300
Well duh retard obviously if you figure there is no reason not to do something you weighed the options.

>>17763301
But by creating Satan God did more harm than good so if he were a rational agent he wouldn't have done that.

>>17763302
What harm? To whom?
Because its certainly no harm to him. He is eternal and omnipotent, inherently there is no reason for him not to do anything, he merely restricts himself which in this context can ironically be considered irrational.

>>17763211
>God will never take his gifts back
Yes he will, he says so himself

Jeremiah 18:9-10
>And there are times when I promise to build up and establish a nation or kingdom.
>But if that nation does what displeases me and does not obey me, then I will cancel the good I promised to do to it.

>>17763308
*after a certain amount of time.
Until the time was up, he will honor your rights to disobey him

>>17763307
You've once again resorted to your NPC programming, your brain cannot even fathom the idea that God creates the means, so the idea he even needs to restrict himself doesn't even make sense.

>>17763313
You are moving the goalpost.
What harm did he do?

>What harm did God do by creating Satan
...
Also you're moving the goalpost because you said he made Satan because of Love followed by some mental gymnastics

>>17763300
>>17763287
Your logic here is flawed by the fact that logic and reason comes from God (truth) and evil is not rational

God's logic for creation is simple: He wants to share
But in order to do so, one must first act according to his will because his will for the betterment of us
He is the one who made everything and he wanted nothing more than our own good.
All he asks is for you to have faith

Evil has no such reasoning
Going against Gio's wishes always results into self-destruction
But evil will never recognize that.
It will lie to itself, deny reality, and delude themselves that the "good" times are forever
Despite basic commonsense saying otherwise

>>17763317
Why did God create evil or allow evil to happen?
If logic and reason come from God then how come his actions cannot be properly explained by logic and reason?

>>17763316
I didnt say that.
And what harm did God do by creating Satan? Satan is powerless, he is nothing. All you have to do is say no and thats it. The harm is done by wicked men and women who act on their free will. So is God supposed to make you mindless robot because of that?

>>17763320
>Satan is powerless, he is nothing. All you have to do is say no and thats it. The harm is done by wicked men and women who act on their free will.
Or God could simply not allow Satan to exist lmao. I don't really understand what part of Christards brain must be missing for them to struggle to understand that God CREATES THE MEANS

>>17763322
Satan isnt the means to anything because he has no power to do anything. Stop arguing like a polytheist.

>>17763323
>Satan isnt the means to anything because he has no power to do anything.
Except you know, temp you to enter a firy pit for all eternity, all things God created for no reason and could easily have just not created and there would be literally no difference

>>17763326
>Except you know, temp you to enter a firy pit for all eternity,
Which you can reject with absolutely no consequences.

>>17763328
So you agree there is no reason for Satan to even exist

>>17763319
He didn't - he allowed Freewill to accept or reject him
Evil is the result of rejecting God

God will tolerate that because of 2 reasons
1. He loves you and he will not destroy your work, even if your work was to insult him
2. He make great things out of the worst tragedies. Every single prophet went through bad times but God still prevailed by using those tragedies

Joseph the dreamer because a Vizer because of the betrayal
Jesus succeeded on his mission precisely by trying to kill him

The bible is clear:
Everyone will suffer. The goal is to offer your suffering to God so he can make something good out of it

He is a doctor. It is his duty to remove the tumor and all he asks is for you to have faith. He'll turn that tumor into a medicine or something

>>17763151 (OP)
>Why did God punish all their descendents for something they didn't do?
This shit has always bothered me. It's bad when the North Korean dictator does it but with God it's the ultimate act of mercy or something.

>>17763330
Okay except God creates the means so there is literally no reason for any of these rules to exist and "rejecting God" is a completely meaingless statement

>>17763333
Because sins can be inherited

Your mom did meth while on labor
Your IQ got fucked
It's not your fault but you are still going to jail because you are a threat

Except NAH
Jesus came and offered medicine.
But it comes with the catch that you have to follow as he says - no more drugs, or whatever

From here on out, salvation is a choice

>>17763334
Laws are mirrors meant to expose the evildoers
It did not exist until people learned to cause harm. Laws were set to ensure that everyone knows what keeps everyone safe and everything outside of that will lead to self-destruction

God's laws are simple:
Animals belong to the land
Fishes belong to the sea
Humans belong with God

Reject his design and you court your own death.
The question becomes: why you want to violate his laws in the first place. The answer is what justifies your damnation

>>17763329
>Satan is an Angel
>God created the Angels as his emissaries and servants
>Satan rebelled against God
>thus he went against the reason for his creation
>free will means to be able to do what you wish to do
>from this we can conclude that he has free will as he isnt restricted to do what God wants him to do
>since many angels followed him we can further assume every angel has free will
>if God used his omnipotence to destroy Satan and all other rebellious Angels for doing what he doesnt want them to do, that would mean the Angels dont have free will
Satan exists because his destruction would be a fallacy in Gods design. He is a trickster and he bound Gods hands through insidious reasoning.
There isnt a reason for him to exist anymore, but there was when he was created. He just chose to abandon that reason.

>>17763334
Good thing the new covenant abolished all those old covenant rules then.

>>17763151 (OP)
Without the fall, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Job and Daniel wouldn't exist. Those are the beings God loves the most in all the heavens and earth. God planned the fall to happen because from this fallen world would come the people who he loves the most.

It's unfathomable to us but God plans for thousands of years ahead.

>>17763341
Satan will stand trial in the last day. he will be found guilty and sentenced to hell.

>>17763359
Nah, if not for the fall, everyone would be immortal, and we would be able to talk to anyone, regardless of their age

And God would join us.
It was supposed to be a world were no one can die, no one can lie, and no one can ever think of harming another.
Jesus wouldn't even bother doing miracles because there is nothing to prove. No one can lie.

And since it will be a world ruled by him, the Angels would probably also be there

This is also why Satan rebelled
Satan, despite being just 2nd to God, cannot believe how much more God loves humans

Humans were given his image
Humans were given half of the authority over the creation of life
And God intends to come and be one of us

And to add insult to injury, Mary, a human, will be elevated to the rank of the Queen of heaven, which is even higher than his.

This is an absolutely abhorrent plan for Satan, who prides himself on being above everyone else. Thus, he rebelled for the pain of God's wrath is far better than the humiliation of serving humans

>>17763370
So Satan is a Chud a who resists Gods great replacement agenda?
Fucking based.

>>17763390
Angels are children of heaven
Humans are children of God

Satan is the chief butler who spends his days warming God's throne, pretending it's his.
Then one day, God said that he is getting his children over and it is his duty to wipe their asses

He got fired and now, he waits outside with his FreeCandy Van

>>17763370
Without the fall there would be no us.

>>17763178
LOL! LMAO!

because the god of the bible is the demiurge

stop falling for the bullshit when his own book keeps failing its own internal logic and forces you to gaslight yourself to preserve the divinity of this jewgod

>you have free will even tho i have an infinite all powerful divine plan of which everything has already been written
absolute state of crossniggers

>>17763151 (OP)
>They didn't know about good and evil yet so how are they culpable for doing an 'evil' thing?

That's not why they had to leave paradise. There were 2 trees, and the other tree's fruit granted immortality, which the two humans now knew. Also the fruits' effects would have stacked, so if they continued eating them eventually the humans would have become like God. So, they were kicked out to protect the tree from them.

Also, it's important to know that the OT God is not omnipotent and all-knowing, when the story was written he was seen as more similar to Zeus than to the all-encompassing deity modern Christians believe in.

>>17763186
Who made the snake evil? Surely it was not the snake's own 'free will' - if he knew he was 'fucked' for his evil deeds (what is it he had done, anyway?), then that would have allowed him to repent. If the snake truly was evil, and it knew that it was evil, and it knew the horrible consequences of this... why did it remain so?

>>17763535
Assuming that God is evil is exactly what led to the Fall
It's not a conspiracy.

Reminder that the snake was just a snake, not Satan.

>>17763178
Its clear how misogynist Christianity actually is. Foisting blame onto Eve when Yahweh is the one who created everything apparently and let a scenario he knew would happen play out and then he got mad about it

>>17763855
There is no other logical conclusion to make based off YHWH's actions

>>17763359
>Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Job and Daniel wouldn't exist. Those are the beings God loves the most

>Rattles off a bunch of Jewish names

Nah, white people don't believe in this

>>17763919
>>17763916
Learn some self-responsbility, dumbass
God will not wipe your ass for you. You shat your pants, you clean it yourself

>>17763914
No, it is Satan
The word used was נָחָשׁ (nāḥāš)
Which has triple meaning

As a noun, it means snake
As a verb, it means divinator
As an adjective, it means shining

He was purposely called a snake because snakes were seen as divine beings in the Middle East.
Snakes were made as holy symbols in Babylon, Caanite, Akkadia, and Egypt.

Here comes Genesis and said the opposite - the snake is the devil

If angels have free will, what is the point of humans? Why would god make something inferior?

>>17763931
The snake being satan is a retcon, bro

>>17763934
Humans were made to be the judges of the angels
We are inferior in every way but Heaven is an inverted kingdom. The ones at the top serve the ones below
God, being at the top, serves everyone
Humans, being at the bottom, are served by everyone.

Angels were made to be the cops, teachers, and doctors. They are superior to civilians in every way, yet they validate their entire existence by the well-being of civilians.
What happens to us would reflect their performance and if we are not there, their existence is meaningless

This is why God was so eager to rescue us - all of creation was designed for mankind like a man building a house and employing maids, in preparation for his children.

>>17763944
Nope.
The Bible reveals new information with every passing prophet. The next one knows more than the last.
Ultimately culminating with Christ

From here on out, if it adds new information, it should be viewed with suspicion.

>they didn't know about good and evil yet
Incorrect. The tree granted experiential knowledge of good and evil, but Adam already knew what disobedience was. God gave a direct command before the Fall. If you need a rule to know what "wrong" is, then you're already working within a moral framework. This wasn't moral ignorance, but outright rebellion.

>why did God create the snake...
Satan wasn't a snake originally. Genesis says “the serpent,” but Revelation 12 clarifies this is the devil. The serpent was an instrument. God permitted Satan to test humanity, just as He permits trials now. Free will is only real if it's tested. No test, no virtue.

>why did God punish all their descendants...
You're describing federal headship. Adam was the representative of all humanity, and his fall broke the natural order. We inherit original sin not as personal guilt but as the loss of original justice. We all suffer the consequences of his broken nature, just as we all benefit from Christ's restoration. You can't complain about inherited sin unless you're also prepared to complain about inherited grace.

>God was so powerless...
>implying infinite patience and respect for free will = powerlessness
God didn’t fail. He allowed man to choose. And when man chose wrongly, He didn’t rage like some pagan god. He responded with justice and a plan of redemption already in motion. That’s not weakness. If anything, it shows divine restraint.

>>17763956
>The serpent was an instrument.
If it was Satan's fault then why god punished the snake by removing its limbs?

>>17763956
>He didn’t rage like some pagan god
But he fucking did it. And several times.

>>17763960
The qoute about "crawling on your belly and eating dirt" was a very old proverb saying that you will die and rule the underworld

>>17763960
Genesis 3 isn’t a police report, it’s theological narrative. The punishment of the serpent isn't about zoological vengeance, but a sign. The serpent (as animal) is cursed to crawl and eat dust as a representation of Satan’s humiliation. God is showing in visible terms what’s happening spiritually: the enemy is now low, groveling, condemned to defeat.

And no, that doesn’t mean snakes had legs and lost them. The Church Fathers saw this as a poetic, theological image. Origen, Augustine, and even Aquinas noted the layered meaning here. The crawling serpent = fallen pride. The enemy thought he would raise man above God. Instead, he’s brought lower than beasts.

tl;dr --> symbolic judgment

>>17763962
Sure, God expresses wrath in Scripture. But it’s not pagan rage. Big difference. Pagan gods lash out unpredictably, driven by jealousy or boredom. The God of Israel? His wrath is always measured, just, and tied to covenant violation. It's not a tantrum, but the response of a holy judge.

Take the Flood, Sodom, or the plagues of Egypt. In each case:
>warnings were given
>time was allowed for repentance
>the punishment directly matched the corruption
It’s not blind rage. It’s divine justice with a moral purpose. Even when God brings destruction, it’s never chaotic, but corrective and often redemptive. Like when He exiles Israel, it's to purify and restore them later.

If you want a god who never gets angry, you’re not asking for a good god. You’re asking for one who doesn’t care. A god who watches genocide, exploitation, betrayal and shrugs? That’s not mercy. That’s apathy. Wrath in Scripture is the flip side of love. If God didn’t love goodness, He wouldn’t burn against evil. His “anger” isn’t the opposite of His mercy; it’s part of how He defends it.

>>17763964
But the bible doesn't say Satan rule the underworld. It says it rules OUR world.

>>17763970
My mistake, it actually meant to be completely and utterly defeated in a humiliating and degrading manner
Often used as a threat against powerful tyrants

>>17763968
>that doesn’t mean snakes had legs and lost them. The Church Fathers saw this as a poetic
By this logic, I could say Adam, Eve and the eden didn't exist and where just some poetic way to talk about the early days of men.

>>17763975
Thanks for showing everyone you're a fucking incel retard

>>17763976
Not everything in Genesis is symbolic, but some things are symbolic within a real historical framework. Traditional Catholic teaching (especially since 'Humani Generis' under Pius XII) holds that Adam and Eve were real historical individuals. Same with the Fall, it’s not a myth or an allegory about “human nature evolving.” It actually happened. The Church requires belief in:
>a real first couple
>a real original sin
>a real loss of original justice passed to their descendants
But that doesn’t mean every detail has to be read like a documentary. The serpent crawling? Symbolic. The garden? Possibly stylized, but the Fall it contains is real. It’s like ancient iconography (not photorealistic, but truth-telling in a different mode).

Think of it like this: calling some elements poetic isn’t a free pass to demythologize everything. It just means Scripture communicates deep truths in layered ways, both history and theology. The Fathers weren’t saying “none of this happened.” They were saying “this happened, but it’s written in a way that reveals more than just the surface.”

>>17763983
It becomes easier to explain when you remember that old writings had no distinction between fiction or non-fiction
Everything is semi-fiction as the only way to preserve history is to convert them into plays

And yeah, Adam is interpreted as the first priest

>>17764021
You're half-right. Yes, ancient texts often blend literary forms. But that doesn’t mean they’re fiction. Ancient writers didn’t have a “non-fiction” label at the top of a scroll, but they absolutely distinguished between myth, legend, law, and eyewitness memory. Genesis is a specific genre: theological history. Not a "play." Not a folktale. It's conveying events with cosmic meaning.

The Church Fathers understood this. They saw Genesis as real history told in a high theological style. Adam was the first priest, but that doesn’t make him a symbol only. He’s both a person and a sign of man’s priestly vocation. That’s biblical typology, not mythology. Same goes for Cain, Noah, Abraham: all within a chain of real ancestry that leads directly to Christ. Luke 3 doesn’t say: “Jesus, son of Joseph, son of a metaphor.” If we flatten all of it into “semi-fiction,” then Christ dies for a symbolic fall committed by metaphorical people in an allegorical garden.

He is an emotional blackmailer that programmed dark magic into the Bible. I feel really creeped out and upset. "NOOOO I LEFT VOLATILE, DANGEROUS AND DEMONIC ENERGIES AROUND FOR RANDOM NEET SUBURBAN GIRLS TO TRIGGER, AND NOW THERE ARE DEMONIC ANOMALIES RUNNING AROUND IN MY PLAYING GROUNDS!!!!"

>>17764145
When I KMS, I'm going to hunt this MFer down and KILL him again!!!!

>>17763151 (OP)
It makes perfect sense according to whichever christjew exegesis you subscribe. Now pick the right one or burn forever

>>17763928
In this analogy, wouldn't it be Eve who shat in my pants?

>>17764442
No, I did

>>17763928
Ironic

>>17763151 (OP)
>complains about his circumstances without finding a way out of his problems
>shows how mentally weak he is to others on the Internet
>sees no hope, no future, and is not willing to ask his Creator for help
Son, literally, you'll not gonna make it.

>>17764565
>grovel to the deranged asshole who put you in this shitty situation in the first place

judeo slave mentality

>>17763423
There would still be us
God's plan from the start never changed.
Each and every piece is essential for his great plan. Whether you want to participate or try to sabotage it is up to you

The holy spirit hovers over the chaos, and percieves something "good", and defines it as such. This is the logical framework known as "GOD". These definitions, are messengers (angels) that convey the meaning of the good things observed. The opposite meaning of the word comes with the good meaning. This is the adverse meanings (satan). Satan goes back and forth, like an oscillating being across the earth ( language ). This explains the conversation between God and Satan in the book of Job, which came before thw book of Genesis.

One day, the Sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and their adverse meaning also came with them. The Lord said to the adverse meaning, “Where did this shit come from?”

The oscillating life formation answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

>>17763178
>Free Will
There it is, the thought-terminating cliche that christcucks always default to.

>>17765991ng
If you don't want to belive in Free Will then you should also throw away your definition of right and wrong
Just shit on the street