How do neo-pagans solve the Trilema of the Chirstian conquest of Europe?

>Option 1: Christianity defeated paganism because the pagan gods are weaker than the Christian God and he defeated them.
>Option 2: The pagan gods could have defeated Christianity but chose not to do so, even when their followers were being killed and forcibly converted and their places of worship either destroyed or turned into churches. Which means they didn't care about their followers and their suffering.
>Option 3: Christianity defeated paganism and conquered Europe and the pagan gods couldn't do anything about it because they don't exist.

None of these options seem particularly viable for neo-paganism today.

Same thing applies to Christians in modernity.

>>17766176
I'm not talking about Christians and their religion. I'm talking about pagans and neo-pagans. Please stay on topic, this thread is focused on paganism, not Christianity.

>>17766165 (OP)
It all comes down to the female genitals, since it was women who converted the patriarchal pagans, their religion has no male ethnicity or misogyny. How could I respect a belief system where women are the missionaries and the ones who teach the faith? But here we have a new question;
why would anyone listen to a woman? Women spread Christianity

>>17766165 (OP)
>Option 2: The pagan gods could have defeated Christianity but chose not to do so, even when their followers were being killed and forcibly converted and their places of worship either destroyed or turned into churches. Which means they didn't care about their followers and their suffering.
That's true, but without irony, the pagan gods didn't care about their followers like the Christian God. It's all about blackmail and mutual benefit, that is, kill this guy or make that woman open her legs to me and in exchange I'll sacrifice this goat or do this ritual for you. Just look at those strange religions in Cuba, the dynamics are very similar.

>>17766165 (OP)
False Trichotomy.

>>17766203
>How could I respect a belief system where women are the missionaries and the ones who teach the faith?
So you're a Christian? Because Christianity explicitly forbids women form doing either of those things.
>Women spread Christianity
Not by preaching, but by simply marrying pagan men on the condition that they convert, and this is a tactic that always works, regardless of the religion. Men are just more willing to abandon their previous beliefs for pussy, New Age cults today are mainly spread by women.

>>17766214
Ok, what other option is there?

>>17766210
Did they care about losing all power and influence in the world?

>>17766210
>It's all about blackmail and mutual benefit, that is, kill this guy or make that woman open her legs to me and in exchange I'll sacrifice this goat or do this ritual for you.
So why did the pagan gods refused to help their followers when they were being attacked by Christians?

>>17766225
hey bro, i think you misunderstood me, i'm just talking about how the pagan/slave dynamic worked
regarding your question, they could argue that this was because the pagan gods only give approval and listen to the "strong", so that's why they abandon them but you would be correct if you said that this is a kind of fallacy

>>17766165 (OP)
It’s literally cause jews enlisted Roman soldiers to kill you all, it has nothing to do with gods

>>17766231
Why is ebil Jew magic more powerful than the gods of Germania?

>>17766203
>all Christians had to do to win was to not kill their baby girls
Quite embarassing for pagans desu.

>>17766235
It’s not, the Roman’s destroyed Jerusalem too

>>17766252
Then why did the Germanic gods lose?

>>17766215
>Because Christianity explicitly forbids women form doing either of those things.
No. Even choosing examples that were unprecedented in the ancient world, women never had as much elevation and rights as Christianity granted them, this comes from the mouths of Christians in various areas, even areas that pagans consider masculine, such as philosophy and specific arts. Regarding religion, they recited this.
>Not by preaching
No. There were several cases of conversion like this, my source lists several, but look at the case of Saint Cecilia.
>but by simply marrying pagan men on the condition that they convert
Even if it were true, this is an argument against Christianity, don't you think? Why would a religion use marriage itself as a tool for conversion? Isn't it said that conversion must necessarily be from the heart and in communion with God? So why use something low like
>you can fuck me if you convert, okay?
And why would anyone do that? Were there only Christian women?
>and this is a tactic that always works, regardless of the religion.
See above. Patheic, and if you don't see any problem with that....
>Men are just more willing to abandon their previous beliefs for pussy
it is the opposite, and in this context, it would be true if men were the main means of conversion, but as the sources show it was women. proven even by Christian inscriptions. your premise is false and very feminist, those who change religion and have no sense of "fidelity" to anything are women
>New Age cults today are mainly spread by women.
interestingly, because society is feminine

>>17766215
>but by simply marrying pagan men on the condition that they convert
You proved his point LMAO

>>17766165 (OP)
>>Option 1: Christianity defeated paganism because the pagan gods are weaker than the Christian God and he defeated them.
Here is a piece of context that answers your question: This happened on one planet, in a am enormous (possibly infinite) universe with different (possibly infinite) dimensions.
>>17766180
It is on topic, by asking that question it gives a different perspective that can bring to an answer.

>>17766262
>No.
Yes:
>Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
1 Timothy 2:11-14
>women never had as much elevation and rights as Christianity granted them
Not what I'm disputing, of course Christianity elevated women more than any pagan society ever did, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about women not being allowed to preach and teach the faith, that is reserved exclusively for men.
>No. There were several cases of conversion like this, my source lists several
Your picrel only says that Christianity gained followers by not being total dicks to women and not allowing girls to be drowned at birth.
>this is an argument against Christianity, don't you think?
No? Why?
>hy would a religion use marriage itself as a tool for conversion?
Every religion does this, Islam and Judaism do it too. Mormons do it all the time.
>So why use something low like you can fuck me if you convert, okay?
That says more about men than it says about women, if we're honest.
>Patheic
Not if it works.
>it is the opposite
Your own source supports me.

>>17766203
Kek
The majority of women, are unable to comprehend spirituality outside of tawdry, self-affirming "Eat, Pray, Love" banalities. But for Christianity, its ok they can teach and convert people by being missionaries haha
Imagine, you are in a village in Lithuania and a 1.60 roast arrives talking about religion, would you listen?

>>17766279
Marital conversion is not preaching or teaching the faith.

>>17766257
First of all the Germanic gods literally died in battle. It was kino.

Second of all it was because of slavery (which was barbaric and banned in pagan Germanic societies) and jesus is the god of the slaves. Now Europe lives on as slaves under the jewish slave god.

The “Trilemma” is only a problem if you start from the assumption that pagan gods were ever divine in the first place. There’s a fourth and far more coherent option:
>Option 4: The pagan gods were either demons masquerading as gods, or figments of corrupted human imagination. Christianity didn’t just defeat them, it exorcised them.
This isn’t cope. It’s the historical reality acknowledged by the early Church, the Fathers, and even many pagans themselves as their temples were abandoned or cleansed. Read Augustine, read Lactantius, even read Tacitus and Plutarch if you want to see how hollow and self-contradictory late paganism had become.

>why didn’t the gods stop Christianization if they were real?
Because they weren’t. Or if they were spiritual entities, they had no power before the Name above all names. Christianity spread not by brute force (at least not initially), but because it spoke to something deeper than transactional temple cults and fertility rites could offer. It gave meaning, salvation, and a God who entered history.

>but muh cultural genocide
Every religion replaces another. Paganism supplanted older animisms, and Christianity, in turn, fulfilled and overcame paganism. If the gods of Europe couldn’t preserve their temples against a carpenter’s son and twelve fishermen, maybe that tells you something.

But I’ll bite: if modern neopagans reject all three options, what’s their answer? How do you square a belief in powerful gods with their total disappearance from history for over a thousand years?

>>17766294
>LARPers believe Odin and Thor were running around on earth doing battle with evil Charlemagne and his army of Jewish sorcerers

>>17766294
>cond of all it was because of slavery (which was barbaric and banned in pagan Germanic societies)
The vikings went on raids to enslave people.

>>17766299
Neopagan here see >>17766294

The Germanic gods are not for slaves. When the people themselves changed into slaves, the Germanic gods have no power over them because they give themselves over to the slave god.

>>17766299
>The “Trilemma” is only a problem if you start from the assumption that pagan gods were ever divine in the first place.
Sure. I'm proposing the trilema from the perspective of a neo-pagan looking back at history.

>>17766176
What because of one generation of decline out of like 200+ generations since Christ's birth? Compare that to the eradication of paganism over a thousand years ago and the loss of almost all of their practices and texts. Maybe if in 1000 years Christianity is dead you can make that comparison, not today though, especially since all of Christendom aside from the civilized west is fairly devout.

>>17766308
>First of all the Germanic gods literally died in battle. It was kino.
Ah yes, the gods that canonically lose. That's not the flex you think it is. A god who can die is just a superhero with a tragic arc. Odin hanging himself on Yggdrasil to "gain wisdom" pales in comparison to the Crucifixion, where God chose to die to redeem even His enemies.

>slavery (which was barbaric and banned in pagan Germanic societies)
This is pure mythology. Germanic societies practiced slavery routinely. Thralls were a foundational part of the economy. Viking raids were largely about acquiring slaves. You’re mistaking modern romanticization for history.

>jesus is the god of the slaves
Correct, and the free, and the kings, and the warriors. Christianity didn't destroy honor, it baptized it. Look at the Christian chivalric ideal: the warrior who defends the weak, obeys God, and pursues virtue. That’s not slave morality. If anything, that’s ordered strength.

>The Germanic gods are not for slaves
Then they abandoned their people the moment they were conquered? Sounds like they only "protect" when the going is easy. Christ doesn’t flee when His people are beaten. He enters their suffering.

If your gods vanish the moment they're not in charge anymore, maybe they were never gods in the first place.

>>17766313
Paganism is literally gaining ground again as your jewish zombie loses relevance

>science created nukes
>just nuke your pagan lands and middle east

whatever nerds. Science made it. Have fun arguing about that shit while I build ring planets and fuse atoms. God wants us to do cool sci fi things simple as.

>>17766281
Also for more context there is no such thing as omnipotence, it's the dumbest thing one can believe in.
And to give another answer, Christianity started by converting the slaves and the lower classes. It has happened in Russia as well with the neoabrahamic religion communism. The difference being that for the Communists to win over Christianity it took less than a century, while for Christians to win over Paganism it took almost four centuries.
Also Christians took the greatest empire to ever exist and made it a complete shithole, while commies took feudal backwater and made an industrial superpower with a space program out of it.
>>17766299
>Christianity spread not by brute force (at least not initially)
Initially it did not achieve any remarkable success, it was only by brute force that it did succeed. Like always you're lying.
It also succeeded by fear mongering in a century of crisis

>>17766319
Pagans believe in science and pagan Egypt and pagan Rome produced A+ tier science

>>17766285
>1 Timothy 2:11-14
This did not prevent cases of them reciting their religion and converting. Furthermore, you are entering a very complicated field, Christians have already answered this: they may not be able to have female bishops and specific authorities (which is what is being discussed here) but they can recite to help men understand the Scriptures better (Acts 18:24-26). In the first century, women prophesied (Acts 2:17-18; 21:9).
>of course Christianity elevated women more than any pagan
what I wanted to hear. thanks
>Your picrel only says that Christianity gained followers by not being total dicks to women and not allowing girls to be drowned at birth.
Christianization in Europe was largely the result of the mass conversion of women. who subsequently married pagan men and raised quasi-Christian children.
As i said above, it's pathetic and show how cringe was.
You see this play out everywhere, even in the Sagas. Erik the Red famously refused to convert despite his wife’s insistence.
>Every religion does this
You have two options:
1. Christianity is like all religions that change
2. This shows how contradictory Christianity is, since it uses such low tricks as a mere pussy, it is not anyone's pride. Classical Judaism did not do this
Christian conversion is a profound process of inner change, a "new birth" that involves faith in Jesus Christ, repentance of sins, and a renewed commitment to "God's teachings", right? Am I wrong? Oh wait then... the ethos of Christianity IS REALLY WOMEN HAHAHA

>>17766310
Got it. If you’re a neo-pagan looking back at the Christianization of Europe from within your own worldview, then yes, the Trilemma becomes a real challenge. Let’s walk through it from your angle:

>Option 1: Pagan gods are weaker than the Christian God
This guts any claim to their continued relevance. If Odin, Zeus, or Perun were real and got steamrolled by a Nazarene god from a desert province, then what exactly are you worshipping? Outdated losers? It turns the whole religion into nostalgic cosplay.

>Option 2: They could have stopped it but didn’t
Which raises the question: why trust or revere gods who stood by while their people were converted, massacred, or erased? That’s divine negligence at best, betrayal at worst. It's hard to reforge a living connection with gods who apparently didn't think you were worth intervening for.

>Option 3: They don’t exist
If this is true, then neopaganism is just spiritual reenactment. Aesthetically pleasing maybe, but metaphysically empty.

So unless you add a fourth option (say, that the gods went to sleep, or humanity lost the ability to hear them), you’re left with a pantheon that either lost, didn’t care, or was never real. None of which inspires confidence.

>>17766318
Lmfao sure, you keep thinking that. It is a fraction of a percent of all religious people.

>>17766317
>God chose to die to redeem even His enemies.
Lie, the underlying idea behind the Jewish sacrifice is that mankind is le evil and must hate itself for what its ancestors Adam and eve did.

>>17766323
>Initially it did not achieve any remarkable success, it was only by brute force that it did succeed. Like always you're lying.
Let’s not rewrite history to fit a Reddit-tier narrative. Christianity spread across the Roman Empire before it had any political power. For three centuries, it was illegal, persecuted, and mocked. Christians were thrown to lions, burned alive, used as scapegoats. And yet the Church grew, from slaves, women, soldiers, merchants, even senators. This is the opposite of brute force. It’s what historians call a bottom-up religious transformation. You don’t get Constantine in 313 unless the faith already had serious traction.

>It also succeeded by fear mongering in a century of crisis
True that people turn to deeper answers during crisis. But that’s not a weakness of Christianity, but a validation. Paganism couldn’t offer hope or coherence during Rome’s collapse. It offered rituals to dying gods. Christianity offered resurrection. If your religion only works when times are good, it’s not a religion, it’s a decoration.

>>17766332
Keep crying bitch. There is literally no one outside of these 3 faggots promoting your jewish god today

>>17766293
yes it is, even though in theory it is supposedly against your teachings
yes, it is. even if in theory it is supposedly against their teachings
in general... even if this practice is in fact "valid", the mere act of marriage in itself is not enough to convert someone, if perhaps we were talking about political advantages, it would make sense, but marriage? the woman would necessarily have to teach the faith.

>>17766333
>Lie, the underlying idea behind the Jewish sacrifice is that mankind is le evil and must hate itself for what its ancestors Adam and eve did.
That’s not Christianity. That’s a meme version of it. The Christian view isn’t that humans are inherently evil and must hate themselves, it’s that humans are wounded by sin but still made in the image of God, with the capacity for virtue, reason, love, and ultimately union with the divine. Original Sin doesn’t mean you’re worthless, it means you’re not perfect. It explains why we’re prone to disorder, pride, and self-destruction despite our best intentions. You don’t need theology to see that. Just look around.

>God chose to die to redeem even His enemies
This is exactly the antidote to nihilism. Instead of abandoning a broken humanity, Christ enters history, takes on flesh, and willingly dies not because we’re trash, but because we’re worth saving. That’s sacrificial love. That’s a king dying for traitors to make them sons. Compare that to Norse myth, where the gods die and stay dead. There’s no redemption in Ragnarök, only doom. No resurrection, just cyclical violence. Cool aesthetics, maybe, but it ends in silence.

If you think that’s just guilt propaganda, you’ve been reading too many 19th-century atheist pamphlets. Read Augustine or Maximus the Confessor instead. They wrestled with sin without denying beauty, dignity, or heroism.

>>17766303
Have you ever heard of Ragnarok?

>>17766330
>Christianization in Europe was largely the result of the mass conversion of women. who subsequently married pagan men and raised quasi-Christian children.
Now, let's see Datas
1/?
Spread by women.
Shouldn't a supposedly patriarchal religion be the opposite? When researching the history of Christianity, I noticed that there were more women in the elites than there were men. Why is this?

>>17766165 (OP)

>>17766338
Demonstrably false and ahistorical. Trajan explicitly refutes your jew narrative and is a primary source. Christianity took over Rome because of its populist nature. Time and again Rome gets taken over by populism.
>>17766344
Listen kike faggot don’t tell me the crackhead mother tossing her stillborn baby into the dumpster is in union with any divine being, and if it is then your ugly jewish god is a reflection of your rotten kike soul that has been condemned to hell by your own slave god
>Augustine
Like many great men, his mind was poisoned by jewish slave morality. If he put his rhetorical and logical skills to proper use he could have ushered in the renaissance a millennium earlier

>>17766356
2/?
>Urge with friendly kindness, all those of your household, whom you have in Sinis or in Hippo, to join in communion with the Catholic Church." - Augustine of Hippo

with such female prominence in conversions, they should let women be priests and popes, because if men did not do their job of converting and women were the brain of Christianity, then there is nothing wrong with that
>>17766289
>a 1.60 roast arrives talking about religion, would you listen?
No, as you said, women are unable to comprehend spirituality outside of self-affirming low IQ shitty

>>17766362
>Trajan explicitly refutes your jew narrative and is a primary source.
You’re referring to Pliny the Younger’s letter to Trajan, not Trajan himself. And that document confirms early Christianity wasn’t spread by force. Pliny reports that Christians are everywhere (rural, urban, rich, poor) and that the temples are being abandoned without violence. He asks if he should keep killing them just for refusing to sacrifice. Trajan says no need for witch hunts. So thanks for proving my point, I guess.

>Christianity took over Rome because of its populist nature. Time and again Rome gets taken over by populism.
Sure. Christianity offered hope to slaves, women, the poor, and those left cold by pagan fatalism. That’s not a refutation. If anything, it's a reason it succeeded. But calling it "populism" doesn’t make it false. Truth doesn’t care if it appeals to the masses or the elite. It just is.

>the crackhead mother tossing her stillborn baby into the dumpster
That’s exactly the kind of soul Christianity says can be redeemed. Paganism might scorn her. Christ dies for her too. Not because He excuses evil, but because He calls sinners back from it. You want a faith that only serves the “noble”? Then you want a tribal cult. Not a religion with the power to transform.

>your ugly jewish god is a reflection of your rotten kike soul
kek

>Augustine... poisoned by jewish slave morality
Augustine was a Roman rhetor, a Neoplatonist philosopher, and one of the sharpest minds of Late Antiquity. He didn’t fail to start a Renaissance. He preserved civilization during its collapse. You read Nietzsche and think he BTFO’d Augustine. Augustine read Cicero, Plato, and the Psalms and saw the soul’s drama laid bare.

But please, go on and tell me how Odin would’ve handled the sack of Rome.

>>17766370
3/?
the memorialized sex ratio at birth from pagan descendants is 58 females to 101 males

for Christian decedents, it's 70 females to 75 males

IT'S A BIG MYSTERY WHY THE LADIES LIKED JESUS
pagans celebrated their own moms at twice the rate they celebrated their own dads

Christians celebrated their own moms at four times the rate they celebrated their own dads, the fatherhood is constantly placed below and as less important than motherhood
words of a Christian
open quotes
>salvation entered the world through motherhood it is motherhood that makes one a co-participant with God in the work of creation a grace so sublime that not even angels can perform therefore whoever despises motherhood despises humanity
I also heard on Mother's Day things like
>Joseph appears in the Bible but we know that the most important thing was motherhood
Christian are matrilinealism
Christians worship women more than pagans.

>>17766379
4/?
This is interesting because it could potentially reinforce the
idea that Christians, even with a more equal distribution of genders in the funerary commemoration, showcased a higher degree of equality among its members

>>17766375
Despite you using ChatGPT you didn’t refute me. Christjews are so pathetic it’s insane

>>17766391
Get mad all you want, but if you're so confident that my arguments are bogus, it would be fairly simple to refute them, right?

>>17766384
5/6
daughters were considered more common in celebratory settings for Christians than for pagans, the same with mothers, although Jews had a somewhat larger number, which makes sense, since they were matrilineal and Christians were basically matrifocal

>>17766391
White people without Christianity

>>17766397
6/6
It is notable how Christianity valued the female figure, which may explain the prominence and influence of women in certain areas, as well as their representation in funerary inscriptions and among the elite. Compared to pagans, who were more patriarchal and patrilineal, Christianity seems to have promoted a greater visibility of women and more egalitarianism.
However, it is important to note that the representation of wives in all communities may be related to the social role expected of women and the duty to honor them, usually attributed to husbands. Furthermore, although the proportion of celebrations of wives is comparable between pagans and Christians, Christians seem to have celebrated their wives more than pagans.

>>17766375
>You want a faith that only serves the “noble”
News flash nigger: every God is like this except for the jewish god. Why would gods serve ignoble people? What does it say about the jewish god if he is there for killers and theives? Kek I can imagine jews at their trials now
>well yes Mr Roman governer, I raped and killed your daughter and have been a parasite on this land for 40 years but remember, jewsus forgave the thief on the cross ;)

So, to sum up, all Christians had to do to sweep over ancient Rome was not being hilariously sexist.

>>17766405
This
Christians ended up with related photo because
>hey, we shouldn't treat women badly, stop it!
true proto-feminists

>>17766409
When your average lifespan is 30 you need to have kids younger dumbass

>>17766409
>menarche was not always a pre-condition of marriage
lolicons win again

>>17766409
>sexist
Hello, miss

>>17766414
>In fact menarche was not always a pre-condition of marriage; nevertheless marriages were usually consummated immediately.
Sex with a prepubescent girl won't give you children though.
Also
>The modal age of the former was 12-15 (43 per cent),
I'm not sure but isn't that implying that 28,5% of the pagan girls were YOUNGER than 12 years old at their marriage?

>>17766421
Come on, how would you otherwise call it? They didn't even give their daughters real names just surname with feminine ending + number.

>>17766413
Based and non-christianity marriage
Remembering Christians act and unite with feminists to attack the misogynistic sexism of various ancient and even modern cultures, as they do with Islam when it comes to women. They did this with the "sexist pagan treatment" and a new type of "dynamic" was introduced.
>Women held no powerful positions among the Old Prussians and, according to Peter von Dusburg, were treated like servants, forbidden to share the husband's table. Commercial marriage was widespread and after the husband's death, the widow fell to the son, like other inheritance. Polygyny, up to three wives, was widespread. Adultery was a serious crime, punishable with death.
Look at people like Sam Shamoun when they discuss the garbage of Islam, the subject is always from a feminist perspective.
Want to make a Christian boil and act like a 30-year-old Karen feminist or an 18-year-old California girl? Recite this

>At the very least we find the male contribution to generation associated with the divine - activity, form, heat, strength, fertility, and ability - while the female contribution is associated with deformation, passivity, matter, cold, weakness, infertility, and inability." And this devaluation goes beyond the issue of generation.
Aristotle provides "philosophical foundations for a thorough and consistent gender polarity' in which
>a woman herself becomes thought of as a deformed or defective man

>>17766431
Why do you hate women, incel?

>>17766425
>They didn't even give their daughters real names just surname with feminine ending + number.
Stop seething, miss.
Btw, they even had concepts and abstractions about how it was wrong to hate roasts haha you didn't see anything, now go back to the kitchen I'm sure you think patrilinealism is wrong right? faggot
>>17766431
Kino

>>17766434
You lost OP, you even agreed with us here>>17766285

>>17766358
>Disillusioned by the loss of the treasure on which they had reckoned, the murderers returned to their dwellings. But after a lapse of three days they were visited with a just retribution for their crimes, losing not only all their worldly possessions but their lives also. For it was the will of the omnipotent Creator and Savior of the world that He should be avenged of His enemies; and in His mercy and compassion He demanded a penalty for the sacred blood shed on His behalf. Deeply moved by the recent act of wicked savagery, He deigned to show the wrath He had concealed so long against the worshipers of idols. As the unhappy tidings of the martyr's death spread rapidly from village to village throughout the whole province and the Christians learned of their fate, a large avenging force, composed of warriors ready to take speedy retribution, was gathered together and rushed swiftly to their neighbors' frontiers. The pagans, unable to withstand the onslaught of the Christians, immediately took to flight and were slaughtered in great numbers. In their flight they lost their lives, their household goods, and their children. So, the Christians, after taking as their spoil the wives and children, men and maidservants of the pagan worshipers, returned to their homes. As a result, the pagans round about, dismayed at their recent misfortune and seeking to avoid everlasting punishment, opened their minds and hearts to the glory of the faith. Struck with terror at the visitation of God's vengeance, they embraced after Boniface's death the teaching they had rejected while he still lived.

>They were blessed
Dually blessed with Christian faith and Christian seed in their women.

>>17766441
>he frames conversations as having winners and losers
get kicked out of debate club for going on a racist tirade, incel?

>>17766441
"Patriarchy" isn't the same thing as
>kill all women gamers rise up beta uprising!
>>>/r9k/ incel

>>17766165 (OP)
God decided that Christianity would take over Europe and so it happened. There is only one God and he is in charge of EVERYTHING!

>>17766458
Amen!

>>17766452
>kill all women
no one mentioned killing them
you lost OP, there's no point. patriarchy is what you call "sexism", and retarded, if killing them was the goal, how the fuck would it be useful to polish the dynamics between the sexes? Greco-Roman patriarchy is what's being talked about here
>>17766447
>incel
How am I an incel if I have a wife? hahahah

>>17766458
By women**

>>17766463
Because your wife has a penis.

>>17766465
nah she was menstruating these days
you're the only one talking about troons here, maybe a projection?

>>17766463
Oh that slit is married? Shit
>>17766469
She told me last night she was in the rag so she let me fuck her in the ass. She told me she was in between relationships my bad.

>>17766203
Paganism is where there mother goddess is worshipped. It has always been female centric. The most popular pagan religion revolve around a father god, a mother goddess and their children. Know as the pantheon.

True Monotheism is the worship of Yahu Sabbaoth. The Sovereign Master of the Universe. And it has always been male centric.

>>17766210
The pagan gods are one of two. Either demons or angels. Neither have the power to save you from God. Nobody can save out of his hands.

>Option 4: Paganism won by subverting Christianity. You secretly pray to Thor when worshiping Saint Boniface. even the iconography of the Tree-Hacker is taken directly from old pagan ritual and iconography. Your Saint Michael statues stepping on Satan? similarly taken from pagan iconography. real christianity doesnt exist and never did because you wouldnt be worshiping 3 gods like pagans if it did
Forgot this one OP

>>17766501
weapons-grade cope

>>17766476
Wft
Virgin

>>17766306
They didn't. They brought back (in vast majority) celts from the isles, who they are literally related to and have intermarried with throughout history. Those people came with them willingly.

>>17766317
You're literally just repeating jewish narratives over and over thinking its gonna convince anyone. Thralls were farm workers, equivalent to the later concept of husmenn.

>>17766504
prove them wrong
>protip: you cant

>>17766317
>Odin hanging himself on Yggdrasil to "gain wisdom" pales in comparison to the Crucifixion, where God chose to die to redeem even His enemies.
first of all Odin hanged himself to gain the runes which are the key to understanding the nature of the universe. he gave the runes to all creatures, even his mortal enemies the giants and the dwarves. you dont even know what the rules are, or what wisdom is for that matter

who gives a fuck that some jew fulfilled jewish sacrificial prophecies? he redeemed YOUR sinful, misbegotten, inbred race of savages because they were so badly in need of it (and it didnt even work, they are still inbred child rapists), he did nothing for mine but bring mexicans and pakis to my lands

>>17766553
>meaningless Jew obsession again
It is true that pagan influence crept in, though it was never able to destroy the core of truth even under the Babylonian captivity of the Church until finally this rancid paganism was purged in the blessed Reformation which restored true religion according to the word of God.

>>17766565
>the blessed reformation
BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
thanks for proving my point that the further christianity strays from paganism, the more jewed and cucked it becomes

>>17766165 (OP)
How come White Nationalist Christians love to pretend Christians are some big anti jew force when in reality they've never done anything to jews like Charlemagne did to the Saxons

>>17766566
>On 31 October 1999, in Augsburg, Germany, the LWF signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification with the Roman Catholic Church.
>Some member denominations have recognized same-sex unions through marriage, a blessing rite, or special prayers. These include the Church of Denmark, Church of Iceland, Church of Norway, Church of Sweden, Protestant Church A.B. in Austria, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Chile, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, Evangelical Lutheran Church in Geneva, Evangelical Lutheran Church in Italy, a majority of the churches within the Protestant Church in Germany, Evangelical Church of the River Plate, Protestant Church in the Netherlands, and the United Protestant Church of France.[18]
Apostates. They're pagans like you

>>17766570
same reason you only ever see e-christians whining about white pagans.

>>17766570
Christianity has been a tool for kikes since the beginning to subvert and destroy non-jewish society. It was apparent with its jewish founders/priests, it was apparent in its activities and results, and literally admitted to by the most influential rabbis in our time period. Imageboard christians are the most delusional faggots in existence, you have to make up incredible mental gymnastics to justify following a jewish religion while claiming to be pro-white.

>>17766573
Pagans never had gay weddings. Christians, however, did, and history will remember that : )

>>17766583
There are exactly 0 Christian homosexuals.
>history will remember that : )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinous

>>17766587
>There are exactly 0 Christian homosexuals
>Luther spent a month in Rome in 1510, three years before Leo became pontiff, and was disillusioned at the corruption he found there.[41] In 1520, the year before his excommunication from the Catholic Church, Luther claimed that Leo lived a "blameless life."[42] However, Luther later distanced himself from this claim and alleged in 1531 that Leo had vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, "otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy."
so was Luther lying?

>>17766483
>mother goddess
Fake meme. Entirely a product of the post-conversion culture inventing a past that didn't exist.
For the Greeks and Latins, Hera/Juno was worshiped far less significantly compared to other female deities less associated with motherhood. Demeter/Ceres has her role exaggerated in the modern day. Her daughter was much more important.
For the Germanics, Frigg was pretty unimportant overall. Freyja was too young to be a mother goddess.

>>17766285
>2nd Timothy
Fake.

>>17766587
>There are exactly 0 Christian homosexuals
Nigger your clergy literally regularly rapes children to the point that it became a mainstream meme. Christian history is full of homosexual pedophile jews.

>>17766597
>>17766626
Catholics aren't Christian

>>17766564
>which are the key to understanding the nature of the universe
Cite me a single scientist that uses the runes to understand the universe.

>>17766629
>muh not real kikestianity
Oh ok

>>17766629
You are all jews

>>17766635
>>17766637
Larpers go 5 seconds without foaming at the mouth about Jews challenge

>>17766165 (OP)
If neopagans were smart they'd go read Cicero and every other republic/early empire era roman philosopher and theologian.
Their vision of religion as social glue, with most gods being concepts rather than skydaddies would serve them far better than any greco-nordic larping ever could.

>>17766642
You are larping as a white man while worshipping a dead jew

>>17766653
Jesus lives.

>>17766165 (OP)
As an example of what not to do. Christians took over and Europe immediately collapsed into a dark age.

>>17766655
Uh huh. And he’s in the room with us right now?

>>17766663
He is with us in Spirit.

>>17766661
UMMM AKSTUALLY THERE WAS NEVER A 'DARK AGE' THAT'S JUST ANTI CHRISTIAN LIES

>>17766665
We're living in the dark age

>>17766664
Is he with the murderer that mutilated his baby mommas kid while he was high on pcp?

>>17766670
No.

>>17766642
Larp larp larp thats all you can say, almost like you are projecting. Strange, that.

>>17766674
Sounds like he didn’t finish the job then, if there are unsaved people he should be crucified over and over again until sin stops

>>17766683
He does not fail to save any of the elect for whom He died.

>>17766691
>elect
Kek so you are a jew

>>17766666

>>17766692
My ancestors are from Germany and Ireland.

>>17766694
>he doesn’t know about gobekli tepe
>>17766696
That doesnt mean anything since jews have been scattered for 1900 years. Your ancestors can be from Japan and you can be a jew.

>>17766631
uhhh anon, you are currently typing in runes (latin edition). you would have nothing without them, you would be sticking sand up your ass like the average african nigger. the runes, while small and simple, are the foundations of civilization that set man apart from savage.

>>17766702
The deep brown mestizo is calling me a Jew, lmao

>>17766629
cope
>>17766642
cope hard nigga

>>17766648
>implying I havent already read cicero

>>17766710
then why isn't the roman way an option in op?

>>17766727
Roman gods already lost to Jesus centuries earlier

>>17766727
roman sources are invaluable to study but that doesnt mean I am a roman; the days of my week are still mon day, tues day, wednes day and thurs day, not mercedi or mardi or any of that. that is why we are germanic pagans, because we are germanic, lot latins

>>17766527
>the Vikings didn't have slaves

>>17766704
>uhhh anon, you are currently typing in runes (latin edition).
Pretty sure our alphabet comes from the Phoenicians, anon.

>>17766949
>phoenicians
white people.

>>17766601
The Greek worshipped Aphrodite and Artemis.

>>17766975
so do you. cept Ive never seen pagans begging for mommys milk from their venus statues. maybe we should?

>>17766977
Catholics are pagans.

>>17767019
Oh really? Which pagan deity do they worship?
Jupiter?
Mars?
Freyja?
The Morrigan, perhaps?

>>17767019
but then your argument defeats OP's argument and invalidates it, if true. if catholicism is really a pagan cult in disguise, then you did not in fact defeat paganism, it defeated you. the pagan gods did defeat christianity, and did choose to do so, seeping up through the foundations of the churches built atop their old shrines and sanctuaries. christianity never conquered europe, rather europe conquered christianity

>>17767035
Jupiter. Deus Pater, specifically.

>>17766165 (OP)
The Abrahamic god Yahweh is Typhon, the immortal spirit of chaos and destruction
The Egyptians equated Yahweh with Set, whom was equated by the Greeks with Typhon.
One pass of the Old Testament makes this point clear.
>Yahweh is constantly referring to himself as "jealous," a "destroyer," an "enemy of nations."
Yahweh’s goal is to separate mortals from Zeus for the purpose of destroying the earth
That’s why Judaism, Christianity, and Islam predict the destruction of the earth, because they worship Typhon

>>17766299
>The “Trilemma” is only a problem if you start from the assumption that pagan gods were ever divine in the first place.
They're more divine than the one that was appeased by infant genital mutiliation, at least.

>>17766165 (OP)
doesnt neo imply reformed? You acknowledge previous problems & expund upon them?

>>17767291
>They're more divine than the one that was appeased by infant genital mutiliation, at least.
as opposed to the ones appeased by semen drinking?

>>17767048
Yes, I worship *Dyēus, a bronce age era thunder and war God who rides chariots, what's the problem with that?

>>17766744
You're mestizo

>>17767331
and I affectively call him my skydaddy or also "daddy Yahweh" :]

>>17767343
no, thats you

>>17767319
you know the claim that odin drinks semen is from a gay jewish mans fanfic novel about religion right? same book claims that jesus sodomized the apostles and made them drink his cummies.

>>17767383
Ah the good old Larp dance.
I honestly don't get it.

>>17766401
>greeks were so gay they laid the foundations for christianity
genius contribution

>>17767384
>you know the claim that odin drinks semen is from a gay jewish mans fanfic novel about religion right?
after the english kicked vikings out they passed laws against drinking blood and semen. the only reason to do that is someone was

>>17766735
The Cicero interpretation option make the whole idea of the gods loosing non sense

>>17767422
>source: my ass

>>17766165 (OP)
if many strong guy beat less weak guy that no mean less weak guy can no be stronger bigger guy and beat strong guy

>>17767625
and strong guy fear weak guy become stronger bigger guy that why strong guy always try demoralize weak guy like see here

>>17766165 (OP)
The same way tradcaths cope with monarchies being overthrown and Christendom getting raped by modernity.

>"We were subverted by evil forces, but we are going to rise again"

>>17766458
And then for some reason he decided that the vast majority of Christianity should be wiped out by Islam in the next thousand years, then 500 years after that he decided that Europe should stop being Christian and the only Christians left should be Africans who put Jesus in syncretic ancestor god worship pantheons

>>17767035
They worship the sun.

>>17767047
Christianity is the legs of iron that replaced the thighs of bronze. God decreed they would take over the world for a time until his kingdom is established.

>>17767959
Yes, he decided all things.

>>17767384
Christianity literally was a cum drinking religion though. "My blood" in the last supper is a mistranslation from "my cum".

>>17767967
He acts in mysterious ways...

>>17766323
You argue in bad faith. Saying shit like communism is even tangentially related to any abrahamic religion. Communism is a purely humanist concept. It was jews who read shit like the theory of evolution to forsake their God. Communism is the most anti God ideology of any major political ideology.

>>17768077
The book of Acts shows that the first christians were communist. They lived in communes and shared everything. they distributed wealth and food according to everyone's needs. In fact, they're the first to practice it.

Gnosticism adequately explains

>all gods are just a bunch of archons leading humans to suffer
>abrahamic religion worship the demiurge
>christianity, muslim and judaism has unleashed so much guilt, fear, murder, death on the planet just as planned

>>17766165 (OP)
>Chirstian conquest of Europe
Never happened.

Damn.

This thread struck a nerve.

>>17766975
Neither are direct motherhood goddesses.
Artemis is typically depicted as young and nubile and virginal. Aphrodite was a goddess of sex in the erotic sense, rather than the familial stability sense.

>>17766313
>One generation

>>17766344
I do not really want to engage with the discussion you people have here, but you are claiming some quite easily provable false things.
> the [Germanic] gods die and stay dead. There's no redemption in Ragnarök, only doom. No resurrection,
Baldr literally rises up from death and brings upon a new age with him.

>>17766165 (OP)
Seems quite simple to me

>Option 4: The people abandoned paganism so they lost the support of the gods

>>17768650
>The people abandoned paganism
You talk as if all of pagan Europe simply chose to abandon their gods all at once, the Christianization of Europe took centuries, with several instances of active resistance and fighting. Why didn't they help them then?

>>17766975
Aphrodite clearly descended from the Near Eastern Ishtar/Inanna tradition, her war aspects were preserved in Sparta as Aphrodite Ares. Artemis seems to be an admixture of local Greek bear cults and a possibly older preservation of some virginal huntress deity (parallels exist in Albanian, Celtic, and Gaulish traditions). None of them have maternal aspects. You would've been more persuasive pointing out Rhea.

>>17766165 (OP)
I don't see gods as conscious forces, I see it as Christ overcoming the sacrifice entirely. But it can be done better, with more integration of our Aryan past, without Old Testament (almost entirely fictional) LARPs.

>>17766176
Truth is we don't deserve to hear the gods.

>>17766203
Semites tend to be much more patriarchal since they don't had or worship any female diety, the paradox is that woman indeed helped to spread christianity still

>>17766165 (OP)
They just cope, their entire lives are all larp, memes and delusions.

>>17769059
>without Old Testament
Christ only makes any sense in the context of the prophecies of the the OT AND if you consider that the OT is historical

>>17769442
Accurate description of 99% of /his/

>>17768753
>Why didn't they help them then?
As>>17767802 said, it's the same way trad Christian types talk about their defeats: "We were overwhelmed by the enemy and subverted by le evil traitorous elites, but God(s) is/are with us, and we will prevail in the end."

>>17766165 (OP)
Option 4: pagans foolishly converted and the Aesir didn’t stop them from voluntarily committing cultural and spiritual suicide because the Aesir aren’t interested in mind controlling humans to prevent us from committing dumb mistakes.

>>17768124
>therefor communism

>trying to "why bad thing happen" polytheistic religions that acknowledge the existence of malevolent entities like loki and eris
This line of attack makes no sense and you knew that yourself before you posted it. This is even more absurd than asking a christian why they don't worship satan. At least in their religion the monstrous evil serpent that opposes the king of heaven was made by that king of heaven himself.

>>17770659
So you accept that the pagan gods can be defeated? Why worship them at all then?

>>17770699
>This is even more absurd than asking a christian why they don't worship satan.

>>17770721
Answer the question: can pagan gods be defeated?

>>17770749
No. Pagan gods manifest in the mundane world through physical avatars which are sometimes killed or harmed in poetic tales, but their immortal essence is perfect and unending. They are above the concept of death. If Odin is ever “defeated” he simply remanifests as another avatar of himself

>>17770749
You first, jew. Why are you not worshiping satan? By your own standards, he's winning.
Or do you perhaps understand the absurdity of thinking you need to kiss a snake because it bit your father?

>>17770774
>No.
Explain the Christianization of Europe, then. Did they not care at all that their followers were being either killed or converted and their places of worship destroyed and turned into temples for another god?
>>17770775
I'm not a Christian.

>>17770774
>They are above the concept of death.
The final fate of the norse gods is to be killed at Ragnarok.

>>17770794
>Explain the Christianization of Europe, then
I already did >>17770564
If Odin always intervened and mind-controlled humans to not make bad decisions, then it would become absurd. We would literally become a race of unthinking robots.

>>17770795
Odin also dies in Runatal then comes back from the dead. They obviously just reincarnate whenever they die.

>>17770802
> because the Aesir aren’t interested in mind controlling humans to prevent us from committing dumb mistakes.
You're acting as if every pagan converted voluntarily because they were fooled, millions were forcibly converted under penalty of death, and many actively fought the Christians. Why didn't Odin help those pagans? Not every pagan was brainwashed, most weren't. Most pagans were forced to accept the new religion.

So why didn't the norse gods help their followers even when they were clearly resisting Christianity with everything they had?

>>17770807
So why didn't he incarnate to help the norse pagans while they were fighting the Christians? Why didn't he incarante as a pagan Mohammed and led the charge against the Christians?

>>17770809
>Why didn't Odin help those pagans?
Because he would have preferred they help themselves. Please actually read pagan mythology before commenting on it

>>17770794
>I'm not a Christian.
You clearly are. The "might makes right" shit makes no theological sense in any religion ever. The only people who ever even attempt it are jews, born or voluntary, because they cannot breathe without lying.

>>17766165 (OP)
tou forgot the forth option
>Option 4: neo-pagans don't actually believe in their "gods" they only LARP because they have personal disdain for Christ and are to petty and vain to admit to it

>>17766281
Woah, just like Marvel

>>17770813
Why did Odin let the faithful Dagr get fucked over by his Valkyrie despite Dagr sacrificing to Odin and take the self-reliant Helgi Hundingsbana up into Asgard and make him a god?

>>17770861
So he's not willing to help his followers even a little bit even when they're facing utter destruction? Even if it's just for the selfish reason of ensuring that he'll still be worshipped?
>You clearly are.
I'm not.
>The "might makes right" shit makes no theological sense in any religion ever.
I never said that might makes right, I'm just asking why the pagan gods didn't give their followers even a little bit of might.

>>17770879
>>17770981

>>17766165 (OP)
>Cut down tree
>Germanics start believing in Christ
This is why I can't take Pagancucks seriously.

>>17770981
>I never said that might makes right
>"Option 1: christianity defeated paganism because the pagan Gods are weaker than the christian god and he defeated them."

>>17771010
Yeah, it's an option, not the only one. It could also be true that they pagan gods simply don't exist or didn't care that their followers were being eliminated. Those are valid options too.

>>17770981
>So he's not willing to help his followers
He helps people by enabling them to help themselves. The purpose of living on earth is not to have the best and most pleasurable life. It’s to learn and grow through successive cycles of reincarnation. He gives us thought and wisdom and examples to learn from, but he’s not going to wipe your ass for you like a retarded baby. That would actually be particularly unhelpful, because all it would do is induce learned helplessness.
>Even if it's just for the selfish reason of ensuring that he'll still be worshipped?
Show me literally even a single instance where Odin is anything but ambivalent about the concept of being worshipped. His famous line on the matter in runatal is “Better to sacrifice nothing than offer too much.” And this line plays out precisely in Helgakvitha Hundingsbana II where Dagr eats shit despite praying, worshipping, and sacrificing to Odin and sigma male Helgi gets turned into a god.

>>17771013
Well at least you finally admitted you're a jew.

>>17771017
>He helps people by enabling them to help themselves.
Didn't seem to have worked agains the Christians. Is Odin dumb or something?

>>17771021
Do you literally think of world history in terms of warhammer 40k lore?
Odin gave all men, and the germanics in particular, the means to succeed and be great. We all make a choice to use these tools or not.

>>17771024
>Odin gave all men, and the germanics in particular, the means to succeed and be great.
Clearly he didn't since they didn't work against the Christians.

Man, I know people make fun of Christians for all the mental gymnastics they have to perform when confronted with their own religion's contradictions, but this pagan cope is insane.

>>17771035
>they didn't work against the Christians.
What didn’t work, retard? You know what I’m talking about when I say tools, right? I mean like the capacity to think and plan and strategize and everything in that vein.
Obviously I’m not referring to specific boons in warfare and conquest, that’s why I keep bringing up the story of Helgi Hundingsbana and you keep ignoring it because you don’t know what I’m talking about.

>>17771047
Keep coping pagancuck. Odin lost, Christ won.

>>17771238
>low-effort shitposting
that’s what I get for trying to have a legitimate discussion on this dogshit board

>>17770993
cept it didnt really convert anyone and still took several centuries to convert germania. he was immediately killed by frisians right after lmao

>>17771238
>Odin Lost, Christ Won
>depicts Christ as a Hindu Avatar

>>17771249
I'm not the other anon. I just wanted to tell you what everyone ITT is already thinking.
>>17771254
>Hindu Avatar
It depicts Christ as He is described in the book of Revelation.

>>17771264
>book of Revelation
plagiarized from ragnarok and other pagan eschatological myths

>>17771273
>plagiarized from ragnarok-
How? The first Christians din't have any contact with norse pagans.

>>17770564
Option 5: the Aesir converted to Christianity, except for Wodan (who became Allah and created Islam)

>>17766165 (OP)
>>17766222
What power does the sea lose by not being worshipped? What power does the sun lose by not being worshipped? What power does the thunder lose by not being worshipped? Etc.
You and the OP are making a big presupposition with the idea that natural gods would really be affected or dependent on this. The idea of faith being what matters was a Christian invention, and the idea that gods would be dependent on human faith for their existence or power is a modern concept that might never have developed without Christianity.

>>17766165 (OP)
Neo-Pagans don't actually believe their gods exist literally you dumbass. They exist as archetypes and role models.

>>17766601
nigga Lycians and Lydians worshipped Mother Cybele almost unilaterally and exported that religion to basically every single pantheon in the Mediterranean sea
Egyptians had this weird obsession with Isis that survived the entirety of their pantheon
Mesopotamians, Canaanites and Arabs were huge Ishtar/Astarte simps
one of the top three most visited shrine in the Greek Oikoumenos was the Shrine of Aphrodite Paphia in Cyprus
and Etruscans,Latino-Faliscans and Oscans worshipped Venus copiously
you're full of shit, anon

>>17773448
>You and the OP are making a big presupposition with the idea that natural gods would really be affected or dependent on this. The idea of faith being what matters was a Christian invention, and the idea that gods would be dependent on human faith for their existence or power is a modern concept that might never have developed without Christianity.
It's not a matter of whether or not it affected them, it's a matter of them being huge assholes that refused to help their followers even when they were being killed and forcibly converted?

>>17774116
>being huge assholes
And you want to say they aren't? Why would they care about human misfortunes in the first place? They are fine with natural disasters, decease etc killing their followers but suddenly some hallucinating schizos is there they should draw the line?
Lol

>>17774133
Then why worship them at all?

>>17774116
Well the gods are huge assholes. Generally. This includes the cockamamie bipolar God of the Christians, for the record.

>>17774137
Because they are the Gods. And they bless one if one is in their favour. They do control things, after all.

>>17774148
Better for humans to forsake the favor of such beings and rely on their own strength. Europeans have lasted quite a while and accoplished many things with needing their favor.

>>17766165 (OP)
If a culture falls into decadence, it can't expect its gods to save them.

>>17774116
>refused to help their followers
How would Odin wiping humans’ collectives asses help them? Actually think about my question. Odin doesn’t want you to live a long and happy life. He wants you to strive for perfection and greatness. How does coddling humans achieve that goal?

>>17774200
>How would Odin wiping humans’ collectives asses help them?
By not falling to Christianity and continuing their religion and way of life?

>>17774200
>How does coddling humans achieve that goal?
I fail to see how saving someone from utter destruction is "coddling" them.

>>17766165 (OP)
>christian once again accidentally admitting that their religion is just might makes right
I don't care which god is the most powerful or has the biggest dick, I care which one is the most good, and one that creates people just to torture them forever for not saying his dick is the biggest is quite possibly the worst

>>17774292
I don't know anon, a god that sees your pain and refuses to help you even a little bit no matter what you do seems worse. At least the Christian god promises to actually help you.

>>17774347
>a god that sees your pain and refuses to help you even a little bit no matter what you do seems worse
and the christian god is supposedly able to do absolutely anything at any time, yet arbitrarily decides to let all the unjust suffering in the world continue for no discernable reason.
at least a god that's not all-powerful has an excuse

>>17774358
>at least a god that's not all-powerful has an excuse
Are you saying that Odin didn't help the norse pagans against the Christians because he couldn't? Is that supposed to make him look better?

>>17774582
does might make right?

>>17774590
I'm not saying that what the Christians did was right. But it sure as hell isn't right to let your followers die.

>>17774200
>Odin doesn’t want you to live a long and happy life. He wants you to strive for perfection and greatness.
You are a neopagan, and yet you are using the same arguments christcucks use to cope when their cursed god lets them suffer.

>>17774801
ok I mean you can cry about muh christfags all you want but Odin literally has a long rambling poem of personal wisdom and advice, and like half of the things he says in there stresses self-reliance, self-improvement, and moving away from strict dependence on the gods.
Thor does not need to tie your shoes for you like an autistic child because he and all of the other Aesir specifically gave you the ability to make shoes, put them on, and tie them yourself, and that alone is a great gift.

>>17774709
Why does Yeshua?

>>17770993
They quite literally gelded him, cut off his ears and sacrificed him to Donar. Actual conversion took centuries and still isn't complete since Christianity in the west is just a gross mix of the Roman imperial cult, Hellenic thought, Jewish religion and Germanic material culture/warrior cults and political/social organization. The religion itself works better if you cut out the Jewish shit and rely on something like platonism instead anyway.

>>17766165 (OP)
Why would the political victory of political figures have to be justified by religious means? None of these options make any sense and are completely unrelated to the real processes of why Christianity did well.
>>17766375
>and that the temples are being abandoned without violence
This is hyperbole on Pliny's part. The major issue with Christians people had was that they were considered atheists and did not participate in public ritual. Temples weren't being abandoned, they maintained by local elites and the fact that Pliny is getting complaints about Christians shows that temples and the rituals around them were foremost in the mind of people living in the region.
>>17766409
>all Christians had to do to sweep over ancient Rome was not being hilariously sexist.
Elite Roman women still married young and normal Romans still married in their early 20's.
>>17766423
>I'm not sure but isn't that implying that 28,5% of the pagan girls were YOUNGER than 12 years old at their marriage?
You could not marry somebody under the age of 13 legally, so no.

>>17775325
Ask the Christians.

I'm asking you, the pagans, here.

>>17775363
>Why would the political victory of political figures have to be justified by religious means?
Beause both politics and religion are intertwined?
>None of these options make any sense and are completely unrelated to the real processes of why Christianity did well.
I'm asking how do they make sense in a pagan paradigm, that is. What excuse did the pagan gods have to not help their followers?

>>17766165 (OP)
Christianity never defeated Pagan people as a whole. And there are only a few instances where Christians actively warred against Pagans and defeated them. In all cases those people were reconverts and this religious conflict was only one in name and actually a territorial, material conflict.

All Germanic people eventually converted to adopt clerical governance and divine right to centralize the power into one family.
There also never were real Christian crusades in Europe comparable to the Levant since the "crusaders" in Europe never had an religious experiences. They warred for land and held that land. The crusaders in the levant were as much pilgrims as they were soldiers. In the Baltics that wasn't the case.

>>17766356
>>17766370
obviously. since woman saw christianity as an attempt to grab some power and independence. pagan rites were all incredibly patriarchal. the line of fathers descending ultimately from male Gods.
a woman is simply a healer and womb in this world view. woman are just a different kind of thrall when not of a noble house. and noble women are independent by virtue of their noble descent from their fathers.
christianity is egalitarian so of course woman would adopt it.

and see where that brought us. to this day the weak and infirm become christian while every man of worth sees christianity as a tool against the inevitable take over from another organized religion.
fact is, you don't need an organized religion in your life if you're independent and an actor in society. while not opium - it certainly is a shield for the meek and impoverished.

>>17777113
>Christianity never defeated Pagan people as a whole.
Ultra mega giga cope.

>>17776034
>What excuse did the pagan gods have to not help their followers?
They didn't want to? Thought it'll be funny to see christians pull this shit?
Godzillion reasons and for every single one i can list you will keep spamming
>BUT!!!
>UHMV BUT!!!
>WHY!?!?

>>17777150
>They didn't want to?
Why worship such a god?

>>17774137
Why are you going out in a sunny day if it gets you a skin cancer? Why drive a car if you'll crash in it? Why drink water if you just going to piss it out?
It benefits you short term, long term or at the very least doesn't hurt you at all
It's ritualistic magic ain't got to explain shit

>>17777152
>>17777162
Refer to this
And remember you aren't in a spiritual shop
Can't buy better gods just because you don't like those ones(you can imagine one all you want tho!)

>>17777162
>It benefits you short term, long term or at the very least doesn't hurt you at all
Clearly this was not the case for European pagans.

>>17777165
>And remember you aren't in a spiritual shop
You kind are, there are many religions, you can take your pick and see if it works.

>>17777171
Worked for thousands of years, your yiddish priests having thousand (and half?) years long spergout doesn't change much
>>17777172
Enjoy your spiritual exploration then, don't forget to equip kippah and grab your spiritual shekels while you're at it
Going to work out great for you lol

>>17777182
>Worked for thousands of years
Until it didn't agains the Christians. That doesn't make your side look good, you know?
>your yiddish priests having thousand (and half?)
I'm not a Christian.
>years long spergout doesn't change much
Why haven't pagans been able to reverse the conquest of the Christians?
>Going to work out great for you lol
If I were to go that route, it wouldn't be without reason, between pagans and Abrahamics, there is clearly a superior side.

>>17777185
>That doesn't make your side look good, you know?
So what? It's not a pageant show
Faith doesn't have to look good and doesn't have to be good
All your headcanons
>there is clearly a superior side
Surely that side isn't on its way to semi complete extinction? Ask me in a few thousand years lol
>But but...
Don't care neither do gods

>>17777221
>So what?
You're not getting new converts with that attitude. Abrahamics on the other hand, they do care about their image and want to keep spreading.
>Faith doesn't have to be good
Yikes. No wonder you lost.
>Surely that side isn't on its way to semi complete extinction?
No? Abrahamic religions are the only one still spreading.
>Ask me in a few thousand years lol
Neither you nor me will be alive in a thousand years, let's focus on the present.

>>17777247
>new converts
Lol
I would even dare say lmao

>>17777264
>Lol at the fact that we will die and Abrahamic religions will continue to expand.

>>17777283
What a clown
Can't wait for your Byzantine thread next
Don't cash out all my (You)'s at once

>>17776034
>What excuse did the pagan gods have to not help their followers?
there is no "excuse." An excuse excuses an instance of inappropriate conduct. A retard who hits another is excused of his assault by way of his mental deficiency.
The Aesir don't need excuses because none of their conduct was ever inappropriate and thus in need of excusing. You're attempting to evaluate the shapers of the cosmos through modern secular utilitarian ethics, which is absurdly stupid

>>17777352
If any god exists, I'd definitely hold it against them that they refused to help me and my people facing destruction, especially when I'm actively worshipping them.

Let me ask you something, you don't any kind of grudge towards Christians for destroying your pagan ancestors, their temples, and way of life? You think that was completely fair and square?

>>17777371
>I'd definitely hold it against them that they refused to help me and my people facing destruction, especially when I'm actively worshipping them.
that's because you're a fucking materialist hylic. You don't actually understand pagan philosophy, you're literally engaging with the supernatural as if its just your imaginary friend.
If you want to actually have a productive conversation, then use the conquest of christianity to actually contradict some aspect of pagan philosophy and spare us all this childish "huurrr y ur skydaddy no save you" fedora shit.
>you don't any kind of grudge towards Christians for destroying your pagan ancestors, their temples, and way of life?
why agonize over it, what does that accomplish
>You think that was completely fair and square?
who fucking cares

>>17777494
>that's because you're a fucking materialist hylic.
Yeah, I'm a filthy materialist for caring about people's lives and suffering and not some abstract idealized concept. I'm the worst.
>why agonize over it
I'm not asking you to "agnoize" over it, I'm simply asking you a question.
>who fucking cares
I do, so, answer, was it fair?

>>17777512
>Yeah, I'm a filthy materialist for caring about people's lives and suffering and not some abstract idealized concept. I'm the worst.
you're evaluating the conduct of the Aesir as if they didn't exist. This entire line of questioning is literal nonsense. You presume that secular, materialist ethics are prima facie true and then evaluate the Aesir against them, but if the Aesir and thus pagan metaphysics is true, then secualr, materialist ethics are false and misguided. If we are to assume arguendo that the cosmos is pagan, then death isn't a bad thing in and of itself, it's simply the point at which one cycle ends and another begins.
So once again, if you want to actually have a productive conversation, then you must first actually contemplate the merits of pagan theology and how they stack up against recorded history.
>I'm not asking you to "agnoize" over it, I'm simply asking you a question.
that is the answer, I don't have a grudge, holding a grudge for something this remote is utterly retarded.
>I do, so, answer, was it fair?
fair doesn't mean anything in this context. It is what was fated to happen. People can feel about it however they want

>>17777541
>you're evaluating the conduct of the Aesir as if they didn't exist. This entire line of questioning is literal nonsense. You presume that secular, materialist ethics are prima facie true and then evaluate the Aesir against them,
No I'm simply talking about people who were under threat of death if they didn't abandon their beliefs and way of life, seems pretty reasonable to me to help those peoples. If the Aesir can't dignify themselves to intercede for even that, what good are they?

>>17777551
>seems pretty reasonable to me to help those peoples.
why motherfucker
how does this comport in any way with asatru doctrine
I know you're a materialist atheist but we have to assume that paganism is true for the sake of your own argument. Do not tell me that X religion doesn't comport with your secular values. I already fucking know it doesn't. Tell me how you think X religion is internally inconsistent.

>>17777557
>why motherfucker
I dunno, basic human empathy I guess, but it seems like the pagan gods know nothing about that.
>how does this comport in any way with asatru doctrine
Fuck your doctrine, if it leads to the doom of your own followers, there's something seriously wrong with it. Some people call Christianity a death cult, for example, but I don't see how worshipping gods that couldn't give less of a shit if you were persecuted and killed couldn't be called a death cult.
>Tell me how you think X religion is internally inconsistent.
Simple, I don't see the point in worshipping a god that doesn't care about me in the least.

>>17777575
>presume that pagan ethics is prima facie wrong for no other reason than "I don't like it"
>balk at any decisions made based upon pagan ethics
the key ingredient you're missing here is making a case for why I should give a shit about your dumb opinion. Your entire argument is routed through your arbitrary preferences whose merits you have failed to conclusively establish, so until you can do that, my response is just going to be I don't give a fuck.

>>17777603
>the key ingredient you're missing here is making a case for why I should give a shit about your dumb opinion.
No anon, it's the other way around, I started this thread, you are here to convince ME of your worldview. If you don't like it then fuck off the thread.

>>17777604
>I started this thread
I answered the question >>17770564
this thread has been you bitching because you don't like the answer. But that doesn't make it not the answer.

>>17777609
And I already answered it:
>>17770809

>>17777613
yeah, you "answered" my answer by just arbitrarily stating that you don't like pagan ethics
and so again my response to that is I don't give a fuck

>>17777620
>you don't like pagan ethics
And I seem to be well justified in that...

>>17766580
Bros

>>17766580
>>17766582
Is this true?

>>17777124
I don't want to hear cope from people who blatantly ignore the fact they worship the god of israel and king of the jews.

>>17766165 (OP)
Christianity has always been foreign to us and never was European to begin with. European Paganism was always our one true identity, embrace it, embrace what our ancestors use to believe in before Christianity came into the picture and destroyed it.

>>17766165 (OP)
Our European blood is under a spell of Judeo-Marxism known as Christianity. It will not be written on my tombstone that I was a "go along to get along" follower, rather the opposite. I will abandon family, friends and lovers for the TRUTH, for the freedom of our people. If you think I came here to make friends, then you are mistaken I came here to show men their true potential, which can only be discovered through discipline and sacrifice. Demolish the Abrahamic cancer that destroys the minds of our FOLK once and FOR ALL! Blood & Honor

>>17766165 (OP)
Neopagans are an absolute joke. They are trying to be taken seriously when their gods got crushed by some desert curse god, and their priests got murdered, tortured, drowned, etc.

If they want to be politheistic, then they should turn to hinduism or shintoism, at least those gods are still going strong, not the corpses they pray to as a larp
>but they aren't... n-native
Neither is the god that has you as second class citizens in favour of the jews, you buffoon

>>17769059
>we don't deserve to hear the gods.
Compare this to the Protestant stance:
>we don't deserve forgivness

>>17778749
I'm a Pagan Hindu Shintoist

>>17770795
>The final fate of the Norse Gods is to be killed at Ragnarok.
>I only know marvel slop.
The words kept say that some will die but some will make it through (like Thor's kids) to start the world anew.

Take what you will from it. The Nordic gods never offer salvation just stories of how they are trying to fight against Ragnarok. Fated to die Othin does not give up, does not surrender, he goes to any lengths to find a way to stop it or slow it down.
>Rage Rage Rage against the dying of the light.

>>17778793
I'm a schizo too, anon.

>>17774292
>I care which one is the most good
A god that can not even do the bare minimum is no god at all.
>Can't stop his own priests from raping little kids in his own house

>>17778749
>Christianity can only be enforced at the end of a blade
Is that why Whites are walking away from it nowadays?