Muslim philosopher Ibn Khaldun seems to remark:

— Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent… they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar … great jurists were Persians … only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' … The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them … as was the case with all crafts … This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture.

How common were intellectual Arabs?

On Arabs:

— Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks. Whereas plains, when they can reach them due to lack of protection and weakness of the state, are spoils for them and morsels for them to eat, which they will keep despoiling and raiding and conquering with ease until their people are defeated, then imitate them with mutual conflict and political decline, until their civilization is destroyed. And Allah is capable of their creation, and He is the One, the Victorious, and there is no other lord than Him.

More Ibn Khaldun on Arabs:

— It is noteworthy how civilization always collapsed in places the Arabs took over and conquered, and how such settlements were depopulated and the (very) earth there turned into something that was no (longer) earth. The Yemen where (the Arabs) live is in ruins, except for a few cities. Persian civilization in the Arab 'Iraq is likewise completely ruined. The same applies to contemporary Syria. When the Banu Hilal and the Banu Sulaym pushed through (from their homeland) to Ifrigiyah and the Maghrib in (the beginning of) the fifth [eleventh] century and struggled there for three hundred and fifty years, they attached themselves to (the country), and the flat territory in (the Maghrib) was completely ruined. formerly, the whole region between the Sudan and the Mediterranean had been settled. This (fact) is attested by the relics of civilization there, such as monuments, architectural sculpture, and the visible remains of villages and hamlets. Furthermore, as we have stated before,147 it is the nature of (the Arabs) not only to appropriate the possessions of other people but, beyond that, to refrain from exercising any (power of) arbitration among them and to fail to keep them from (fighting) each other.

So, there seems to be something of a narrative there (seemingly contemporary to Ibn Khaldun), that "ethnic Arabs" simply absorbed, conquered and never created sustainable civilization whereas Persians and other Muslims were the ones really spearheading achievement. I'm just wondering if there is any truth to that (clearly biased) narrative.

So why do they call it the Islamic golden age?

Me personally, I’m rooting for the hypersonic missiles

Sand people are hilarious, kek

>>17768661
>So why do they call it the Islamic golden age?
because persians are muslim

>>17768657
>>17768661
kek I love racist historians

>>17768750
See the image in >>17768661

>>17768819
>racist
It’s not racist it’s pattern recognition. They are all animals.

Muslims in general are fucking retarded, none of these "Islamic golden age" philosophers matter anymore and Pisslam has descendent into savagery and ignorance. Its basically a demonic cult that wants to cast humanity into darkness and enslave it for all eternity.
Avicenna was cool though.

>>17768750
because europeans learned about it from arab muslims
it's why even the stuff from india is attributed to arabs
calling it the islamic golden age is a eurocentric framing of the time period in question

>>17768828
>>17768847
Yes, those persians, they were muslim

>>17768852
And Eastern Romans (Greeks)

>>17768852
but the indians weren't, they were different varities of native indian religions
the point is that the "islamic golden age" is what europeans called the era where the came across arabic translations of texts written by greeks, persians, and indians with some of those persian authors being muslim

>>17768852
Arab =|= Persian

Arab Muslims =|= Non-Arab Muslims

>>17768852
is there a language barrier here or are you inbred in some manner?

>>17768870
Allah told his parents cousin marriage is ok, please understand, its dey culture.

>>17768655 (OP)
That quote about the prophet and persians is peak we wuz/iranjeet reviosionism cope

>>17768750
>>17768661
>>17768657
>>17768655 (OP)
Persians were intellectually bankrupt before islam
All of those persian scholars were all muslims and non were pre islamic
Before islam, they were only good at empire making

Also arabs had a great prime during 600-900
They conquered half of western eurasia

>>17768830
Its also pattern recognition to see crackers are retarded subhumans
Same for iranjeets that are servile cucks that got raped by foreigneds for the majority of their history

>>17768880
Seething sandnigger spotted

>>17768880
Arabs were “fine”, until they started to inbreed and their genetics made their dumb fucking religion a whole lot worse.

>>17768886

>>17768885
Literally the truth retarded tranny
Name me one relevant (1) persian scholar before islam ?

>>17768890
Those are south asians

>>17768896
Okay.

— ‘A prominent pre-Islamic Persian polymath was Avicenna (Ibn Sina), a 11th-century philosopher, physician, scientist, and poet. He was renowned for his contributions to medicine, philosophy, and other fields.’

>>17768897
Lolokay

>>17768896

>>17768898
>ibn sina/11th century
>pre islamic
I know you where dumb but i didnt that you where that dumb
>>17768909
A prophet
Not the same as a scholar/intellectual

>>17768914
Didnt know*

>>17768880
Their architecture was pretty cool. I don't know what you expect from pastoral herdsmen who pretty much became empire builders in a short time, practically thrown into it. It even took Timur's descendants a generation or two before they were producing Mughal (also Persian inspired) arts

>>17768914
He is explicitly cited as pre-Islamic.

Ibn Sina was a kafir, without a doubt. He believed that Allah cannot create and that the Prophets were not actually prophets.

He was a Qarmatian Ismaili.

>>17768896
Borzuya and Bozorgmehr are two names you may want to look up. You may also want to research the Academy of Gondishapur.

You have to consider, so much of what is known today as "Islamic" knowledge or achievement, came from pre-Islamic Persia, and existed already. During the Arab conquests, they were set on destroying Persian culture of pre-Islamic era, and rid themselves of the Persian language completely. It wasn't just a territorial invasion, it was a cultural invasion. What they didn't destroy of Persian civilization, they plagiarized, translated to Arabic, and passed as their own. Parts if not all of Kelileh and Demneh, and Scheherazade (One Thousand and One Nights) are examples.

I’m not saying there weren’t Arab Muslim intellectuals, even polymaths, I’m just pointing out how thin in number they are.

>>17768959
Thats not pre islamic retard, thats non muslim, i said to bring persians scholars before Islam entered iran
He was still raised in a muslim background

>>17768977
But that’s even more pathetic for the side of Islam. If you’re born to the Quran, and then realize over time that it’s trash.. well, then… yeah…

Christian intellectuals could at least work with the Bible. Persian polymaths couldn’t work with the Quran. What does that tell you?

>>17768925
They had like 1000 years from the achemenids to the end of sassanids
With a lot of invasions yes but still 1000 years
>>17768970
Those arent really relevant and even if it was true with what you said
I could still say that they copier that from the sumerians/semites/assyrians before

>>17768982
Still cherrypicking compared to all the others who where muslims

>>17768984
>Those arent really relevant
Hey you asked for them. Keep coping.

>>17768984
You’re still ignoring that the vast majority of alleged achievements were conducted overwhelmingly by Persians and not Arabs. I don’t care if they were both Muslim when the former was forcefully converted in droves. This is just more proof that Arabs are retarded and Islam fosters retardation.

>>17768880
This. Persians had a civilization and were empire-builders but they weren’t known for being an intellectual people before Islam. There is no relevant Iranian scholars or school of philosophy that predate Islam, if there even is any in the first place.

>>17769054
>Persians had a civilization and were empire-builders but they weren’t known for being an intellectual people before Islam.
Lol, lmao even, this is such fucking cope, amazing.

>>17769079
Literally the true
They had like 2 or 3 intellectual max in a period of 1000 years you historylet faggot

>>17769020
Its called the islamic golden age
Not the arabic golden age you retarded cuck
Arabic Golden age would be more like the military conquests they did in the 600-900

>>17769083
Lol, lmao even, amazing cope.

>>17769087
Lol, lmao even.

>>17769079
Not an argument. So far no one itt has mentioned a single relevant pre-Islamic Iranian scholar or school or philosophy and you're moving the goalpost after being btfo

>>17769087
See the image in >>17768661

> We don’t attribute Roman accomplishments to the Roman religion. Got to give the Persian/Iranian minority credit for making most of the contributions to the Islamic Golden Age and for producing so many polymaths.

>>17769054
You think building civilization and empires isn’t an intellectual endeavour? This is a bad take. Very bad.

>>17769094
But people did, and you’re just going “no it doesn’t count”, because you’re an overly emotional, inbred shit skin, who can’t take hard facts. Many such cases.

>>17769098
>You think building civilization and empires isn’t an intellectual endeavour?
Yes. Turks built empires. Arabs built empires. Mongols had the largest empire in world history. You obviously don't need to be an intellectual to ride a horse and wield a sword moron.

>>17769102
No you mentioned some random nobodie you had to google as a gotcha, this is why i explicitly said relevant knowing your coping mechanisms

>>17768896
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-modern_Iranian_scientists_and_scholars

>>17769109
Double digit iq moron spotted.
>>17769120
See, you’re still doing it. No amount of evidence will convince you. Your feelings first logic second.

>>17769109
>Mongols had the largest empire in world history
Only because they could never settle down.

>>17769125
Literally not a single person in that list comes from pre-Islamic Iran kek, thanks for proving me right

>>17769130
You're a seething broken buck with no arguments see>>17769144

>>17769144
What? You’re just not looking hard enough. Gondishapur predates Islam’s entry into Persia by centuries. If you’re only looking for ‘Muslim’ on the page then you’re being disingenuous.

>>17769144
>>17769153
Crying sandniggers kek

>>17769159
>Gondishapur predates Islam’s entry into Persia by centuries.
Iranian wakanda is not relevant

>>17769162
>No arguments
Do wignat troons really ?

>>17769170
Okay so you’re as deranged as you are biased. Got it.

>>17768984
Why do nearby civilizations and conquerors become "Persianate" even Alexander the Great

>>17769175
Okay so what relevant scholars and school of philosophy did Gondishapur produce?

>Persians didn’t acquire their genetic brilliance until Islam showed up
>It just didn’t exist before this point
>they totally didn’t have good genetics until Islam

Um what

>>17769193
Mindbroken majoosi

>>17769193
Yeah Muslims are hilarious.

>>17769193
>muh genetics
Holy shit you are so retarded
Nobody talked about genetics and this is irrelevant to the subject

>>17769170
Wakanda didn’t exist. Gondishapur did.

>>17769232
Well. The phrase “Persians did nothing until Islam!” more or less implies it. The Persian language became the standard. Persian culture became a tool to spread Islam. This influence was due to prior or earlier Persian ingenuity that had existed prior to the Arab conquests - since for some reason the vast majority of what was accomplished during the alleged golden age was conducted by Persians.

Assuming that they just became brilliant polymaths as soon as Islam entered is a bit of a hopeful stretch.

There’s still a possibility, mind you, since white people lost like 15~ IQ points in the last century since the Victorian period. It’s not unheard of for drastic cognitive shifts in just a hundred years - but I’m more so skeptical of brilliance rising than lowering.

“We’re getting smarter!” is massive cope by people who peddle around horse shit like the ‘Flynn effect’. Seeing IQ fluctuate up and down by a few IQ points doesn’t really comfort me, not when we’ve lost a whole lot more than we’ve gained.

>>17769184
Persia was an intellectual capital of the world before Muhammad did a thing.

>Gondishapur was home to several notable figures, particularly in the fields of medicine and science. Borzūya, a physician and philosopher, is known for his travels to India to collect medical texts. Bukhtishu, a prominent medical family, included several generations of physicians who served at Gondishapur. Masawaiyh was another well-known physician who worked there. Nafi ibn al-Harith was a physician and scholar at the academy. Harith Ibn-Kaldeh, the first Arab physician, studied at the Gondishapur school.

>According to The Cambridge History of Iran, it was the most important medical center of the ancient world during the 6th and 7th centuries. The distinguished historian of science George Sarton called Jundishapur “the greatest intellectual center of the time.”

I’m not sure if asking for names is a good thing when it’s already a feat to have a surviving work attributed to yourself after hundreds of not thousands of years.

For instance, the Pythagorean theorem was actually done in ancient Babylon.

>>17769260
Culture matter more than genetics
Otherwise germanics would be still ooga booga retards

>>17769297
>I’m not sure if asking for names is a good thing when it’s already a feat to have a surviving work attributed to yourself after hundreds of not thousands of years.
There are endless Roman and Greek scholars. For a supposed intellectual capital of the world to have little to no actual surviving intellectual works to base their wewuzzing on is a stretch, dont ya think

>>17769338
But Islam doesnt have an intellectual culture.
To the contrary its anti intellectual and has a Platonic view on the arts (le depictions are le bad).
If anything the Islamic Golden Age happened despite of Islam, not because of it. Meanwhile modern Universities are a direct result of medieval scholasticism. Without Christianity, Europe wouldnt have succeeded. Without Islam all those Persian intellectuals would have just been Zoroastrian or Christian or Buddhist instead.

Why was Islam so beneficial to the Tajik race?

>>17769193
>Persians didn’t acquire their genetic brilliance until Islam showed up
They never had it to begin with, it was Tajik excellence.>>17770235

>>17770130
>But Islam doesnt have an intellectual culture
Wrong, Islam promotes learning
>Meanwhile modern Universities are a direct result of medieval scholasticism.
Medieval scholasticism is a direct result of translating Arabic works into Latin.

This bait thread is made on false assumptions that all medieval Islamic scholars were Iranian, which obviously isn't true. And even those that were Iranian used Arabic as a literary language anyways.

>>17769054
persians were never civilization builders
what they built was off of the bones of native semite mesopotamians like the Sumerians, Assyrians, and especially the Babylonians.
they're vultures and their collapsing tribal based society is reflective of that

>>17770331
Monotheistic religions generally promote learning because they have central texts of divine revelation that need to be read, preserved, analyzed, interpreted and understood. Its why being a Priest or a Rabbi means being a learned man.
However while Christian scholasticism eventually evolved into the modern university system (and all that came from it) to preserve and expand knowledge, Muslims completely failed to do anything like that.
I dont find this "Islamic Golden Age" impressive at all because Muslims never institutionalized their accomplishments so all those thinkers were eventually forgotten until Europeans rediscovered them. Its the same with the Greek philosophers, they were only preserved by foreign cultures that came centuries after them. The Greeks by themselves would have forgotten about them.
Its really just browns daydreaming about that time when "they were somebody", like a sardonic old man who never fulfilled his potential looking back at his college years when he was top of his class and full of potential.
>Medieval scholasticism is a direct result of translating Arabic works into Latin.
Absolute nonsense, medieval monasteries were preserving the ancients themselves completely independently of Muslims. You are either brown or you dont know any better.

>>17768655 (OP)
isn't ibn khaldun an arab?

>>17770383
It was wiped out to the point its a miracle anything even survived because Mongols destroyed everything they came across and there was barely anything resembling a civilization in the Islamic world. And other steppeniggers that came afterwards like the Ottomans never valued education much either hence the modern state of the Islamic world.
Why Western Europe succeeded was because they were geographically sheltered and had no external threats to worry about.

>>17770411
Europe had pagan and then Muslim savages to worry about who wanted to murder, enslave, rob, destroy and steal children.
Had the Europe not preserved against Islam the world would have been cast into eternal darkness.

>>17770425
The Balkans took the heavy hit and went from the richest region of the mediterranean to a shithole. W Europe was always protected.

>>17770130
>Without Islam all those Persian intellectuals would have just been Zoroastrian or Christian or Buddhist instead.
Yet there was barely any persian scholars before islam

>>17768655 (OP)
Yes. They the area of Ajamis and their apostacies.

>>17770383
>Its the same with the Greek philosophers, they were only preserved by foreign cultures that came centuries after them. The Greeks by themselves would have forgotten about them.
We really need country-wide blocks for muttmericans and jeets

>>17770331
>Wrong, Islam promotes learning
…lol

>>17770955
I bet he actually believes it too kek

>>17770955
>>17771184
Not an argument, Jew worshipper

>>17771277
Brother, Muhammad was half-Jewish, by his mother too

Do sand niggers really believe Persians acquired their brilliance from Islam.

>>17771866
Yep lol

>>17772443
>>17771866
>wignat troons still cope and have no arguments

>>17772447
Religion isn’t genetics. Genetics is why religion either sucks or doesn’t suck.

A lot of butthurt itt

>>17770235
they are both muslim

>>17768655 (OP)
>>17768657
>>17768661
Arabs are semitic steppenigs, unironically
The establishment of the Abbasid Caliphate into something resembling a Byzantino-Persian agreggate civilization is no coincidence, Arabs literally stepped out of their desert as cultureless conquerors that got reverse-assimilated into the massive territory they've snatched. it also exclaims why the caliphates split up into their former cultural sphere following the Fitnas :
>Hellenosyria
>Persia/Eranshahr
>Egypt
>the Maghreb/Berber states
the funniest shit was when the Umayyad caliphate splintered between the traditional Arabized Berber culture and the newer Arabized Iberians after the only successful expansion made after the Rashidun conquests repeated the same mistakes their Bedouin steppenig predecessors did.

>>17768655 (OP)
>>17768657
>>17768661
To continue with >>17774132 , it's also no coincidence that the caliphates splintered and died as the number of Dhimmi administrators diminished in their employs. Just like steppenigs, Arabs are completely dependant on civilized administrators to do their biddings because they lack the low-time preference and interests in logistics that settled empire cultivate, and Ghazi culture in Islam certainly doesn't help cultivate a strong sense of civil and bureaucratic service in the faithful.

>>17768655 (OP)
yes, yes, but:
scientific output of persia before islam = 0.0
scientific output of persia after islam = summaries of greco-roman and indian results

>>17768655 (OP)
>Have Arabs done anything?
Nope.

>>17768655 (OP)
>hurr durr arabs did nothing
>let me quote one of the most important medieval muslim scholars who was arab

>>17774965
>Arab shitting on Arabs
Even better.

>>17774965
>>17775988
He also said this: “إذا عربت، خربت”

“If you Arabize, you ruin it”

>>17776216
Based. Reminds me of black people who hate black people. I’m white and I hate white people too.

>>17771866
it was either through Islam or through Indians Assyrians and Babylonians
in typical steppejeet fashion

>>17776854
Do you really believe this.

>>17777119
He does I bet.

Sand people are funny

LMAO

>>17768655 (OP)
I know there was a blind poet(?) Arab who wrote about veganism, atheism, antinatalism who I admire.

>>17776835
>I’m white and I hate white people too

>>17780281
Hating your own people because you want them to be BETTER is a normal feeling.

>>17770383
The Greeks loved the ancient classics though. Anna Komnena refers to Homer reverently as "the Poet" instead of his name because she assumes any Byzantine Greek reader will know who she's talking about.