Would people still care about Israel being founded as a "settler colony" if it had been founded in the 18th or 19th centuries?

>>17779194 (OP)
such arguments about Israel being an illegitimate "settler colony" are entirely disingenuous

>>17779194 (OP)
If you look at it from an Israeli perspective, you need to first look at how many Christians and Muslims there are in the world. Okay, how did that many Christians and Muslims come into being without a lot of expansion and war?

>>17779232
I don't think that's right. There is of course no one israeli perspective, but Israelis I've talked to seem to be more of the opinion that this is the historical Jewish homeland that Jews were forcibly expelled from in antiquity, some Jews have always lived here, but it has always been the nebulous goal of Jews to end the exile and return, even before modern zionism.

>God kicks you out of the "Holy Land"
>Let's just go back haha and genocide and use apartheid and displace the people living there since before we got kicked out
The State of Israel is an affront to God.

>>17779222
No

>>17779296
doubtful, but make a non-disingenuous argument if you can

>>17779294
literally every part of this is wrong

>>17779366
Liberia and Israel justified themselves off wack narratives and both were started off by third party entities.

>>17779194 (OP)
The only reason the stolen argument is popular is because leftists and women have room temprature IQ. You have leftists that live in former European colonies that have no intention of giving up land and self-repatriating making this retarded argument without a hint of irony.

>>17779385
That doesn't render the argument null stupid.

>>17779222
They're heartfelt, and punctuated by the fact that it came relatively late in history. The problem begins with the Balfour declaration and accelerated in the 50s.

>>17779194 (OP)
like south africa? yes
>>17779222
Legitimacy is not an argument obviously the palestinians have legitimacy and it hasn't benefitted them. I think it's more of an explanation for Israel acting like a colonial power, gerrymandering and stealing land to stop the demographic glacier that is the people who actually are from there.

>>17779194 (OP)
Yes because they're racial aliens inhabiting Arab land

>>17779403
Yes it does, it shows its being made in bad faith by people holding israel to an impossible double standard.

>>17779669
Not everyone critiquing Israel is from a settler state.

>>17779194 (OP)
Settler colony used to just be a descriptive term but it’s now used as a pejorative to imply a sort of inherent illegitimacy. It’s code for “white people live here and I don’t like that” because these people are so stupid that they think Jews are European Germano-Slavic converts

>>17779487
This man is Palestinian you dumb animal. Actual ethnic peninsular Arabs are not indigenous to that region because they aren’t East Med Levantine North Semites

>>17779487
>>17779686
This man is also Palestinian

Many people don't care. The problem is the people that hate it and love it never shut up about it. They also have a microphone and use it to let others know how they feel about Israel. Whereas the people that don't care just don't day anything. Something tells me most people have bigger problems to be worried about.

>>17779689
Wait I thought Palestinians were dark brown paki towelheads?? I didn't know they were Aryan ubermensch chads

>>17779711
Now yuo see…

>>17779674
We were talking about those who are, like americans.

>>17779726
Dunno. Would people still care about the holocaust if Hitler was a better biblical scholar and came up with a justification?

>>17779924
What a weird non-sequitur. If you want to make an argument start at the beginning and actually make it.

>>17779958
How is that any different from OP's question? In both cases reality is unimportant, all that matters is what people are saying.

>>17779962
you're still begging the question. What is it you're actually arguing here?

>>17779970
I already answered OP's bad faith, strawman, piece of shit argument and the answer was "yes". Now I'm getting annoyed at attempts to rehash and talk around me.

>>17779194 (OP)
Yes because Jews are INSANELY obnoxious about it and use massive scale subterfuge, blackmail, espionage and smear campaigns that just outright interfere with Western politics and elections on massive scales.

>>17779978
you try to make some kind of bad faith, strawman, piece of shit argument likening Hitler to Israel and then you have the temerity to complain like this?

>>17779998
for example?

>>17779194 (OP)
If Israel had been founded in the 18th or 19th centuries, that would mean that the Jews had successfully waged war upon the Ottoman Empire and defeated them in a time when they were still considered one of the world's great powers. The Israelis would be beloved heroes of all the west under those circumstances.

>>17780022
What's wrong with comparing Hitler and Israel? Hitler had a really interesting concept where his people needed space to live. He was an interesting guy. You're suggesting you don't like Hitler because you're Jewish? First of all, this is /pol/. Secondly, antisemitism is Jewish. You could easily be a self-hating Jew, would explain why you're here. Thirdly, Israel is a christian project. Christian gospels deal with the return to Israel and christians provide the necessary military support. Christians are the only reason why the dream of Israel lives on in an earthly form. The assumption that you're jewish is not one I'm ready to make.

>>17780034
>First of all, this is /pol/
this is /his/ retard

>>17780038
then why are we talking about contemporary discourse? off topic.

>>17779194 (OP)
Israel is an evil amoral country, HOWEVER, all the rightoid Yankees here who think their country is any better are delusional. Both are equally evil entities built on oppression and theft, the US is identical to Israel.

>>17780166
America is behind Israel. They want you to be antisemitic and attack a scapegoat, it reinforces what israelis believe and distracts from the real issue. It helps them accept servitude and missiles falling around them. Making a change in America is more important.

>>17779232
That's a really stupid way of thinking about it, christians and Muslims are not ethno-religions like judaism. Are people here actually dumber than redditors?

>>17780166
Holy spicslop beanercoal

>>17780166
Not really, we've atleast had proposals for there own state in the union. The federal government has given over 31 billion to tribal governments as of 2021. Theirs atleast been a push for reparations and a drive to integrate Indians, this isn't a possibility in Israeli society

>>17780223
it's not a possibility, it's a certainty! 1 in 5 Israelis is Muslim. That doesn't even account for the large number of mixed families who will side with muslims in the future.

>>17779232
You're so fucking retarded, unlike Judaism, neither Christianity nor Islam are racially based faiths

On the contrary, they're extremely proselytistic

>>17779194 (OP)
No. But it was in the XX right after WW2, so that's a massive game changer. The only legitimacy Israel has is the proverbial 'might makes right'. There's literally nothing else holding it.

And he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

>>17780166
your country is not any better

>>17780294
Their creation was sanctioned by resolution of the United Nations.

>>17779194 (OP)
How long is too long to be milking a crime against humanity?

>>17779194 (OP)
If today they're still exploding the skulls of native children, rounding them up into cages to be fired on with tanks, I think you should care.

>>17780223
Because the indians have been tamed thanks to american military supremacy. Not the same for palestinians.

>>17780185
That doesnt change anything. We all know that conversion came by the sword. You're pointing out a difference that is not meaningful.

>>17779239
>jews were forcibly expelled from in antiquity
For doing exactly where they're doing now.

>>17780166
All states are immoral silly.

>>17780523
The current arab-israeli conflict or the air war between Israel and Iran are not even remotely comparable to the Jewish-Roman wars of antiquity.

>>17780540
They're exterminating Arab civilians this time instead of Greek ones. It's not that different.

>>17780166
Israel is annoying and would generally act amorally but Arabs (especially Palis) are even worse, I swear to you Palis would be far worse than jews the moment they get any sort of power of base (see every country where the Palis take hold).

>>17780294
Israel is like an EU4 player, just takes advantage of every neighboring crisis to expand territory and wins through stacking discipline and tactics.

>>17779194 (OP)
Would people still care about Rhodesia being founded as a "settler colony" if it had been founded in the 18th or 19th centuries?

It's not about time, it's about race. Leftists are only upset about Israel because their "victims" are brown Muslims.

>>17779371
Jews don’t care about goy narratives, Israel wouldn’t have existed if America had not closed the immigration gates in the 19th century, as well as if they had taken Jewish refugees during the holocaust.
The Labour Zionist narrative of the Kibbutzim and settling ancient land is only partially true. Most Jews immigrated there because no other country will take them after WW2, Jews were appealed into Zionism not just due to the holocaust but due to the fact that even after the goyim knew the horrific scale of it, they wouldn’t offer Jews a chance to immigrate anywhere or even go back to their homes (See Polish pogroms post WW2)

>>17779403
The people making it are hypocritical at least, land acknowledgements for White progressives, but an absolute torturous death for Israeli Jews? Why don’t all the progressives go back to Europe if they are squatting on occupied turtle island? And also pay taxes to the American Zionist occupied empire?

>>17779194 (OP)
The people of the 18th and 19th century would have cared.

>>17779239
What about the rest of the Israelites? It's their land too. Jews are only from Judea not the whole of israel.

>>17779294
God is clearly punishing the people living there. Benjamin yuhoo is Sisera.

>>17779194 (OP)
Arabs (Palestinians) are not natives to the Levant either way.

>>17781677
>Israel wouldn’t have existed if America had not closed the immigration gates in the 19th century
This is incorrect. America didn't restrict its immigration until the passage of the Johnson-Reed act of 1924, which created the modern style of immigration where people are presumptively NOT allowed to legally immigrate, and can only come if they qualify for a visa, which are very limited in number, open to only certain categories of people, and have hard caps on the max number issued per year overall and by country.

Up until 1924 the system that existed was that anyone who wanted to immigrate to the united states presumptively COULD legally immigrate unless they were disqualified due to certain factors, such as being "likely to become a public charge" if they were disabled without a family to care for them, or were penniless and with no job offer. Or they had a dangerous communicable disease, were a known criminal (known thieves and prostitutes were the most common disqualifications), and the most important disqualification was that east asians were completely excluded. But other than that any Jews who wanted to immigrate to the US up until 1924 basically could.

Also the "closing of the gates" after 1924 is somewhat overblown, because so many people had extended family in the US it was realistic to be able to get a family unification visa, and the visa ceiling for Germany was high.

So by the time this happened modern zionism and large scale settlement of Palestine were already well under way.

>>17780181

>>17780325
Who does God punish like this?

>>17780577
The expulsion of the jews from Judea after the 2nd Jewish-Roman war wasn't a response to the simmering ethnic violence between Greek and Jewish communities in the Eastern Mediterranean, which was something not at all limited to just Judea and also not something that could have blame cast to one side alone. There were numerous massacres of Jews in Alexandria and Greece at the same time.

The expulsion and other crushing punitive measures were the result of an unexpected full scale uprising against Roman hegemony that crushed the Roman legion garrisoned there with very high casualties, and a subsequent declaration of independence. It was a response to heavy handed Roman imperialism, and far from a unique one. Such uprisings happened periodically all over the empire, and they were crushed just as ruthlessly.

>>17781721
Cope lie.

>>17781721
Jews aren't either, according to their own holy book.

No one is native to anywhere.

>>17779222
not really

>>17779194 (OP)
People would have stopped caring if Israel hadn't continued creating new settlements for their entire history.

For the other 'settler colonies' it's a history of more than a century ago that they mostly admit was not the most moral action, for Israel it's been a consistent policy for their entire modern history and they say they want to continue doing it and that it's a good thing to do it.