>KJV readers once they realize big words and fancy prose isn't enough to be a good christian:

>>17779358 (OP)
Believing in Jesus is enough to be a "good" Christian anon, he said it himself
Fact is there's nothing we can do to be good, hence the love and sacrifice of Christ
God bless and stop spamming garbage

KJV is overrated trash

What's the best version for a first time read?

>>17779358 (OP)
Oh nooooo not the magical lava lake of eternal pain and suffering! noooooooo

AHHHHHH NO THE MAGICAL LAKE OF FIREEEE THAT ISN'T BIBLICALLLLLL

>>17779399
If you believed him you would obey him. So he knows who believed in him because they do what he said.

NO NOT THE LAVA ZONE! DAMN YOU ALL!!!

>>17779399
>he said it himself
No he didn’t. The historical Jesus taught strict adherence to the Jewish law.

>>17779546
Hellfire isn't biblical, as long as you ignore all the verses about hellfire.

>>17779478
NIV and its deritives

>>17779554
Well I cannot give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar because he no longer reigns, you misread what is a lesson, a metaphor, a parable and what is actual and literal
Pray for guidance in these matters
>>17779584
Cringe and clinically retarded, many such cases
>>17779478
KJV only
>>17779544
>>17779546
>>17779578
>>17779597
Hey samefaggot can you tell me exactly which verses are literal and which are metaphorical or parables?
And if so, what gives you the authority over anyone else to parse them?

Enjoy burning in hell assholes

be god> taste red hot iron heathens!
>*searing flesh sounds
>ahahahahhahahahahahaha

>>17779358 (OP)
>>17779400
>>17779554
>>17779584
Enjoy Hell.
>>17779478
The King James.

>>17779606
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

>>17779826
John 11:25-26
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

So which is the absolutely correct one anon?
I can find another dozen verses of Jesus himself saying you only need to believe in Him in order to see eternal life, such as the classic John 3:16 even
Maybe you've discovered something literally everyone before you seems to have missed, including Peter, Paul, John and all the Apostles
Please enlighten me

Its pretty obvious why KJV cultists never stop talking about hell.

>>17779597
which verses

>let me tell you why you're being too fancy

>>17779826
1. You sin every day. You're going to burn, even by your own metric. And I can't wait to hear your pathetic screams. You're such worthless trash, it makes me sick.
2. >the will of my Father who is in heaven
Which is helpfully defined in John 6:40
>And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ready to admit you're wrong?

I swear that all the words in Christianity that get translated as believe/belief/faith/etc have to be seriously mistranslated. There's no way that the thing God cares about, the thing that determines who gets immortality and who gets toasted, amounts to claiming confidence in the reality of one or more historical or metaphysical figures and occurrences on the basis of questionable evidence.

Apparently some people have argued that a better translation for many occurrences of "faith" would be "trust," "faithfulness," (like a wife's faithfulness to her husband or vice versa) or even "allegiance." And those seem a bit more reasonable. Though it's still weird how often the emphasis in the New Testament is on believing in/trusting/allying yourself with Jesus in itself compared with how you do that, and how that contrasts with salvation by works.

I'm tempted to wonder if maybe "salvation by works" originally referred to just thinking that you would be saved by obeying Jewish ritual laws, engaging in animal sacrifices, and all that, which Jesus' sacrifice fully replaced (effective for everyone for all time, but people still had to be convinced that it worked so they would stop needlessly killing animals for God, hence faith). But outside of the ritual law, behaving morally was still a really important part of salvation.

>>17779946
>I swear that all the words in Christianity that get translated as believe/belief/faith/etc have to be seriously mistranslated. There's no way that the thing God cares about, the thing that determines who gets immortality and who gets toasted, amounts to claiming confidence in the reality of one or more historical or metaphysical figures and occurrences on the basis of questionable evidence.
Then you're bound for Hell. Have fun burning.

>>17779946
>some people have argued that a better translation for many occurrences of "faith" would be "trust," "faithfulness," (like a wife's faithfulness to her husband or vice versa) or even "allegiance."
Those "people" are Catholic apologists, literal children of the Devil, foaming out their own shame and making their converts twofold more the children of Hell than themselves. If you believe them, then
1. You're completely retarded.
2. You deserve the strong delusion you've been given over to.

>>17780004
>>17780015
On sheer intuition, I would not be the slightest bit surprised if it would be you people, who think that having the right beliefs is what gets you a free pass out of hell while genuinely good people get burned for making an intellectual mistake, and who often seem to actually enjoy the idea, are the ones will be spending a while toasting.

The sheep and the goats parable identifies moral behaviour as the important determiner of who gets toasted: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2025%3A31-46&version=NIV

>>17780040
>>17780040
>On sheer intuition
Argumentum ad imaginarium.
>intellectual mistake
No, they allowed their pride to blind to reject the gift purchased with the blood of God's Son. Good job trying to minimize the sins of the damned, though. Those flames just got hotter.
>version=NIV
How very.

>>17779399
>a guy who rapes a thousand babies is going to go to heaven if he says Christ is his savior
>a poor child who tries their hardest to be good in their life gets incurable brain cancer and dies, gets tortured in hell forever because they didn't know or weren't sure if Christ is their savior

Yes, abrahamists really believe this.

>>17780040
>On sheer intuition
Argumentum ad imaginarium.
>intellectual mistake
No, they let their pride blind them to the point of rejecting the gift purchased with the blood of God's Son. Good job trying to minimize the sins of the damned, though. Those flames just got hotter.
>version=NIV
How very.

>>17779946
Another possibility I've considered is that Saint Paul's original model was ultimately universalist, and he saw moral perfection as an important part of salvation, but it's one which God is supposed to help us achieve because we can't do it by ourselves, and trusting in Jesus is what's supposed to help us do it. That would make sense of all the universalist passages and the passages commanding perfection or implying that we will be made like Christ.

>>17780058
Romans 10:9-10
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart, leading to righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, leading to salvation."

Philippians 2:9-11
"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ."

1 Timothy 4:10
"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is *the Savior of all people*, *especially* of those who believe."

Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Romans 8:29-30
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit."

>>17780055
I'm trying to find a way of making sense of Christianity that isn't completely retarded like the version that so many people are incredibly self-righteous about even though the only thing they claim to be doing that gives them this massive sense of self-righteousness is having the right beliefs or intellectually assenting to a metaphysical gift.

>>17780066
If you are looking for the truth but you qualify it by saying you have to like it, then you aren't looking for the truth. You prefer lies that make you feel good. Care to admit that?

>>17780070
I think the idea that the difference between heaven and hell or between immortality and death consists in believing the right things or intellectually assenting to something is exactly the sort of bullshit that could be described as "lies that make (some) people feel good" because it frees them from the obligation to behave morally.

And, personally, I don't think the idea of looking for lies over truth is really at issue here. There is ambiguity in the correct interpretation. And Christianity could even be totally unrelated to truth. Unless God is prepared to perform a miracle right now confirming some version of Christianity (or even some religion other than Christianity), I don't think you have any room to be so confident that you have the one absolute truth and anyone who doubts you just "prefers lies."

>>17780083
Okay, so you can't admit that. You lost.
>There is ambiguity in the correct interpretation.
No, there is zero ambiguity. The Bible is clear, salvation is by faith alone. You don't like that for some reason, so you reject it. You don't care whether it's true. You don't care about truth, period, which is why you continue to reject Jesus Christ.
>Unless God is prepared to perform a miracle right now confirming some version of Christianity
A wicked generation seeks after a sign. We have all the proof we need in the King James Bible. It's not good enough for you, because you don't care about truth. Ready to admit that yet?

>>17780089
There is ambiguity. Did you read the parable of the sheep and the goats I linked above? In that parable, whether or not people go to eternal life or the other direction depends on how they treat their fellow man, not on what they believe.

And the King James Bible is not the dictionary definition of truth. It is a book, made out of paper and ink, like many other books, some of which are true, and some of which are fiction.

>>17780095
Sorry, it seems like you can't articulate your beliefs as accurately as I can. I'll make this really easy for you, you can repeat after me:
>I don't care about truth. I only care about what sits right with my emotions. And I hate God.
That's what you're trying to say, you're just too stupid to put it all together. Now you're without excuse. Ready to admit it?

>>17780049
No they dont. If the child wasnt aware of the Christ and was righteous he Lord will have mercy on him. If he knew Him and denied the Christ yes he would then be risking hellfire.

>>17780121
I'm starting to wonder if you might be talking to yourself rather than me. Perhaps you're ready to admit something? Feel free to take your time. You have the rest of your life.

>>17779584
enjoy the valley of Gehenna

>>17779478
NABRE
Catholics don't feel any need to cover up contradictions or weirdness because their apologetic canon is separate from the Bible itself. So its almost all unadulterated.

>>17779358 (OP)
>>17779399
it's not that simple. being a "Christian" is hard. "Christian" is synonymous with "disciple of Jesus Christ"
you simply don't have to be a disciple to be saved.
you are not saved by your works.

whether you "bear the heat of the day" or not, once you're "hired" you will be received into the Kingdom of God.
now, you ought to work, and God will prune you if you don't, but "[you yourself] shall be saved, even so as by fire"
to be a disciple is to die daily, and even so, it isn't good or humble to claim to be righteous, but only that you aspire to labor in his vineyard.

>>17780128
Cathodoxy is just part of Satan's dialectic. He needs a strawmen with which to attack Jesus Christ.

>>17780135
I made it as easy as possible for you, and you still can't do it. You're worthless.

>>17780049
>abrahamists really believe this
No, fedora fags like (You) create straw men like this and argue them for heckin gotchas
>1 John 4:8
>He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
I believe God is love first and foremost, and I use this as the rosetta stone to decipher the Bible

>>17780150
>it's not that simple
Yes it is in fact "that simple"
That's the whole point of Christ right there, no convoluted laws and traditions you must follow to the T, no rituals, no self-effacement - just believe
Jesus says unless you become as a child then you cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven - full of trust, awe, seeing life for the magic that it is, believing in miracles and living in the now, the beautiful mystery of existence and trusting your Father to take care of you because he loves you

Romans 4:1-5;
What then are we to say was gained by Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. But to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David pronounces a blessing on those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin.”

Is this blessing, then, pronounced only on the circumcised or also on the uncircumcised? We say, “Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness.” How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised.

James 2:21-24
Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and by works faith was brought to completion. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

>>17780257
Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For the judgment you give will be the judgment you get, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.

>>17780270
>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
True faith will cause you to do righteous works, but works alone to appease God, as Cain attempted, are rejected as inadequate because then your belief or faith lies in your own righteousness (your works) and not that of God Almighty

>>17779399
so a Christian is free to rape, steal, and murder as much as he wants and since Jesus will forgive him its all ok?

>>17779478
The Message :)

>>17780290
Why do you immediately go to these outlandish scenarios?
If someone did commit those terrible crimes and truly came to Christ for forgiveness and repented, and gave their life to God in all earnestness then of course they are forgiven, God loves all
And of course anyone who thinks you can trick God into a get out of jail free pass has another thing coming to them
If someone wants to do evil they will use any excuse to do it, be it religion, a pity story, some philosophy, whatever - if in your heart you say "I will commit these atrocities because God will forgive me" then you are already lost - and you may have committed what Jesus calls the only unforgivable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

>>17780286
What is the faith in God apart from one's own righteousness that is adequate? If I believe that God is good enough to, in the end, save everyone including me by helping them to become righteous, is that having the sort of faith in God that leads to salvation? Or is that still faith in my own righteousness?

My core difficulty with the faith-focused doctrine is that I feel like the way most people understand it makes faith itself into a variety of work, and not only that but they make faith into a work that you can boast about over and above any practical demonstration of goodness, which feels completely insane and backwards and upside down.

>>17780305
Well anon, and this is by no means being condescending, you might want to take some real time and truly meditate on what faith really is, what it means - because this is what I had to do, and I had to let go of a lot of previous conceptions of it in order to better understand it

Faith is a very childlike phenomenon, and there's good reason Christ implores us to be like children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven
We spend so much time here and elsewhere philosophizing about something that is actually the deepest and most profound (and truly inexplicable) experience a human can have in my opinion - the same way I couldn't tell you what an apple tastes like without referencing something else, I couldn't impart the experience of faith and God to you in any meaningful way - that's why Jesus says "seek and ye shall find" - it is inexpressibly greater than knowledge or semantics, and the most personal journey you can go on

I actually do understand where you're coming from, and it is a very philosophical angle - I only suggest taking a step back and look for the "faith as an experience" viewpoint - remember the trust game we played as kids where you fall backward, completely letting go, and fully trusting your companions would catch you?
It's like that but with God, and with your life itself

>>17780316
>meditate on what faith really is
>the same way I couldn't tell you what an apple tastes like without referencing something else, I couldn't impart the experience of faith and God to you in any meaningful way
It seems as if you're telling me to imagine the color blue to get a better idea of what "blue" is while assuming that I've never seen the color blue, which is a conundrum.

I think I already have something that is to me a truly meaningful variety of "faith", which I tried to articulate above. I have faith that God is good enough to, in the end, save everyone including me by helping them to become righteous (granting that my definitions of "God," "everyone," and "righteous" may be a bit fuzzy and heterodox).

Though I don't have that faith all the time. I waffle between believing that and believing that there is no God. But to the extent that I believe in the goodness of God, this isn't a thing I've decided to do. It's just the only sensible thing to have faith in from my perspective, and any other belief about God feels absurd. So it isn't something I feel proud of. And this does feel like a "faith" that would lead a person to behave more morally as the real "faith" supposedly should, because it includes an aspiration toward genuine righteousness and a belief in the value of other people, so that no one deserves to be condemned to eternal torment - in contrast to the "faith" in God that believes many people will be permanently condemned for their lack of that "faith."

>>17780142
>John
Pure fanfiction

>>17780357
As I see it, if God is truly working to save everyone and will save everyone, only then can you feel it in your bones that there's nothing special about you, nothing that you can do or have done, to have earned the privilege of God saving you -- and yet you can still have confidence that you will be saved.

>>17779358 (OP)
>>17779478
If the message is important, which it is, I doubt it matters at all which version you read so long as the meaning isn't lost.

>>17779358 (OP)
The flames just got hotter

>>17779399
Amen and God bless you brother.

>>17780150
You have to have a changed heart to be saved.

>>17779854
That's the point. When he said to do the will of his father, you should believe him and do it.

>>17779905
Wanting to see others burn is wickedness and all who are wicked will go to hell. If you wanna watch others burn you will burn yourself.

Jesus said be me merciful just as the father is merciful but you're not believing what he said. That means you don't believe in him. If you did you would obey him.

>>17780299
David killed an innocent man and he was forgiven because his repentance was sincere. Yet God still punished him and killed his newborn son. Being forgiven does not mean not being punished, it means sparing your life.

>>17779358 (OP)
Evangelicals when the Third Temple is built and they realize that their bullshit scoville crap was just a plot by Babylonian LARPers Zionists to get Christians to reject christ and be good goyim slaves.
>Daily reminder that the Scoville bible was literally funded by Jewish Zionists, published by the Rothschilds and was continued to be edited after Scoville's death by Israelis.

>>17780268
A child believes everything you tell them. If you tell a child to do that he goes and goes in. That is ever believing in Jesus means. It means to obey what he said. And what did he said? To do the will of the father.

>>17780268
>just believe
This is what you must believe:
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

>>17780049
You think you're better than Jesus? That his work on the cross wasn't good enough, you need to add your own works too?

>>17781550
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

>>17781550
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

>>17780753
I'm never going to Hell. God isn't merciful on those burning in Hell right now. He hates them. You're mind-numbingly stupid, and a holier-than-thou to boot. Have fun burning.

>>17781684
It was a yes or no question. Try again.

Why do King James lovers worship the British Crown? Not religious, just curious

>>17782017
Nta

>>17782097
Try again.
>>17782054
You're functionally retarded.

>>17782168
It's true though, you fellate yourselves over the garbled translation commissioned by an English king. You've removed books from the bible, Crown Worship.

>>17782291
Have fun burning, Papist.

I'm sure there are healthier ways to relieve stress than going onto an anonymous peruvian duck herding forum and wishing eternal hellfire on people

>>17782330
I'm not religious, this is just what I've noticed as an outsider

>>17782400
Have fun burning, fedora.

>>17782506
Not an atheist either, Christ is Lord

>>17782013
"Only those with unyielding certainty of salvation shall enter the kingdom eternal."
— Book of Certitude 2:7

>>17782510
Have fun burning, retarded subhuman.
>>17782512
What color is your skin?

>>17782524
Lol you spend your time damning other posters with hellfire like it's your decision.

>>17782583
>Lol
Opinion discarded.

>>17782524
Only God can judge me

>>17782586
Oh no I used a acronym for laughing, sue me.

>>17779399
...Unless you read the KJV, of course.

You subhumans are arguing over fairytales as though they are serious metaphysical positions. It's hilarious how stupid Christians are.
And no, I will never go to hell. Keep repeating it over and over like a barking dog if it makes you feel better about your trash life.