The yuros feared the lever gun in the 1800s as the lever gun is the action of the white man. instead the yuros chose the bolt action, the action of the homosexual

Lever actions were typically issued to Cavalry because they were quick and allowed Cavalry units to be more agile, but AFAIK lever guns can't handle more powerful loads like Bolt Actions can. Bolt Actions were typically issued to Marksmen and Infantry (both position were largely interchangeable prior to World War 1) and Europeans favored marksmen over agile troops. This military orthodoxy even persisted into World War 2, and is one of the reasons why Hitler was so slow to adopt the STG over the Kar 98k

>>17779639
>but AFAIK lever guns can't handle more powerful loads like Bolt Actions can.
the lever action in the OP is chambered in the 7.62x54r russian round. the main russian combat round of both world wars which is 100% comparable to the bonglish, nazi and American rounds
Also the standard bong, russian and probably American or nazi rifle was like 4 or 5 MOA. IE 12 to 15 inch groups at 300 yards, which doesn't matter because no one's shooting that far with a rifle without magnification and all the data shows that during WWII most engagements were under 300 yards.
I think the only time you ever saw engagements over 300 yards be the norm was during the period between the civil war and WWI. either way the rifle in OP would have been just as accurate as the standard bolt gun during both world wars and shot the same round as the bolt guns

>>17779649
One issue I think with lever guns when it comes to accuracy is the action itself forces you to lose your sight picture, making it more difficult to make followup shots. It's far easier to remain on-target while operating a bolt action
>which is 100% comparable to the bonglish, nazi and American rounds
I don't know much about whatever the Brits and Krauts were using but 7.62x54r is rated to about 50,000 PSI while .30-06 is somewhat higher at 60,000 but I'm not sure if this makes an appreciable difference. Remember, firearm actions are designed around expected bolt thrust, and muzzle velocity and muzzle energy are closely related but somewhat different results, you can increase your muzzle velocity without increasing operating pressure by using a lighter projectile for example, but this may not necesarilly result in better muzzle energy.

>>17779659
>One issue I think with lever guns when it comes to accuracy is the action itself forces you to lose your sight picture, making it more difficult to make followup shots. It's far easier to remain on-target while operating a bolt action
have you seen people cycle bolt actions? you lose your sight picture when cycling a bolt. it's easier to keep your sight picture with a lever
>I don't know much about whatever the Brits and Krauts were using but 7.62x54r is rated to about 50,000 PSI while .30-06 is somewhat higher at 60,000 but I'm not sure if this makes an appreciable difference.
you could (and still can) get 1895s chambered in .30-06. Teddy's son had one in .30-03 which is the same thing as .30-06 but with a round bullet.
you can also get model 1899 savages in .308 winchester which is more or less the same as 7.62x51 nato

>>17779696
>have you seen people cycle bolt actions? you lose your sight picture when cycling a bolt.
That's not true at all. Look at how cleanly this bolt action is cycled here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMafv6UgWng
The rifle doesn't move in the slightest, you can't do that with a lever gun

>>17779618 (OP)
>the lever gun is the action of the white man
How are you going to cycle it when lying prone or braced against the side of a trench?

The lever action is the peak firearm of the mid-19th century, but is at a disadvantage once machine gun emplacements enter the field and you can no longer just rely on aggression and mobility to win the day.

>>17779618 (OP)
Lever Actions were obsolete by the 1890s anon. They were good for horse mounted units but their disadvantages over bolt actions quickly became apprent. More difficult to use while prone, easier to lose sight of your target between shots, and far more expensive to mass produce for military procurement compared to bolt actions

>>17779880
Only the last one is true. Saying they're harder to use while prone has the same logic as suggesting that modern assault rifles should all have side or top magazines. The bigger reason is cultural, Euros never adopted lever actions in the same numbers as Americans and for Americans the evolution from single shot breechloaders to repeating arms was slow and a direct response to Spanish mausers so instead of using popular lever actions which had been in widespread civilian use for nearly half a century they decided to essentially make an American Mauser. If Americans in thr 19th century invested in a standing army like European powers we very well might have had lever actions in the 1870s but wjen you have no budget to the point that ammo wastage in combat is a concern you always go for the budget option.

>>17779902
That's not the same logic at all, magazines don't move between shots anon, the lever on a lever gun does. You can prop up a modern rifle on its magazine

>>17779907
The bolt of a bolt action moves between shots.

>>17779914
The bolt of a bolt gun slides horizontally, whereas the lever on a lever gun must pivot vertically towards the ground, this makes bolt actions far better suited for prone firing positions, because the bolt isn't going to get in your way as much.

>>17779917
Neither get in the way much at all just like a magazine on the bottom doesn't get in the way much when firing prone. It's essentially a nonissue is the point. You could say a bolt action is better prone than a bolt action and by the same logic say a side magazine is better than a bottom magazine. Bolt actions weren't chosen because sight picture or going prone they were chosen because

Euros: What the fuck is a lever action?
Americans: OMG those super mauser rifles are deadly we specifically need our own super mauser rifles because we're technologically 30 years behind Europe in military tech

>>17779932
It's not a trivial difference anon, with a lever action if you want to fire it prone you either need to support it slightly above the ground to give the lever more clearance, or you need to raise the rifle between shots to cycle the action which means you'll quickly lose sight picture. Bolt guns can be operated prone and can be fully operated without you having to take your eyes off the sight. It's also one of the reasons pump action took over from lever action, because pump guns maintain the higher firing rate of lever guns while also being able to operate in tighter spaces like bolt guns

>>17779618 (OP)
I love lever guns, but they are more expensive, more fragile and less reliable than bolt actions.

>>17779837
you can do that with a lever gun, I have a lever gun. cowboy action shooters can do it with a lever gun. he also loses his sight picture there and there are tons of vids of guys using bolt guns from the world wars losing their sight pictures while cycling the gun
>>17779874
>How are you going to cycle it when lying prone or braced against the side of a trench?
turn the gun to it's side. the russians literally used them in WWI

>>17779880
only the last part is true. they are as easy or easier to cycle and keep your sight picture than a mosin nagant and you can cycle them prone
>>17779902
>for Americans the evolution from single shot breechloaders to repeating arms was slow and a direct response to Spanish mausers so instead of using popular lever actions which had been in widespread civilian use for nearly half a century they decided to essentially make an American Mauser.
the 1860 henry predates any yuro repeater, to the point where the first yuro repeater used the magazine from the 1866 henry.
Also the US had fucking Krag bolt action rifles in the spanish American war. we didn't fight the cubans with single shots. do you have any idea what you are talking about?

>>17779917
you've never shot a WWI/WWII bolt action. the russians would absolutely have to move their heads. there is training footage of bong and American troops moving their heads to cycle their guns
>>17779932
we already had krag bolt actions that fired basically the same round as the bongs in cuba. the bongs did the same fucking thing in south africa and then WWI happened. it was more that 7mm mauser was better than .30-40 krag/.303 bong than anything else

>>17779942
pump actions were only ever popular for shotguns and .22lr. colt tried to sell pump actions in the same chamberings as the winchster rifles and they were never popular.
you lose your sight picture trying to cycle a russian mosin from prone

>>17779618 (OP)
the tubes and lever mechanism are more prone to damage and jamming, and you lose your sight picture more when you cycle
i have both and lever gun is my go to for shooting, its fun and i hunt with a marlin in .450
but i would want a bolt action in a combat situation, its also easier to mount and maintain a scope on a bolt action
a bolt is easier to operate in cramped and odd positions, and easier to clean

>>17780743
also the magazines on a bolt can be bigger and are easier to load like with clips and with a greater variety of rounds than tubes

>>17780743
>>17780750
just like revolvers they are way cooler, like i said i primarily like to shoot with those, but i'd want a semi auto pistol with a stacked mag any day if i have to fight

>>17780743
>>17780750
>the tubes and lever mechanism are more prone to damage and jamming,
>also the magazines on a bolt can be bigger and are easier to load like with clips and with a greater variety of rounds than tubes
You do realize OP posted russian contract 1895 winchesters that take stripper clips and fire from a 5 round box mag and use the same exact ammo as the russian mosin nagants right?
Besides, the french went into WWI with the 1886 lebel, which actually does have a tube mag.
Literally the reason the yuros used it was because it was cheaper to produce and most of the advancements in bolt action tech were made in germany, france, and switzerland.

>>17779837
>>17779659
the whole RoF thing doesn't even make sense anyway when you consider troops were issues with 100 or fewer rounds, most pre WWI rifles had magazine cut offs and were intended to be fired in single shot and I don't think you even see clips or box mags until the mid 1880s. the french lebel used in WWI had a tube mag that didn't take clips and you couldn't quickly reload it, the krag didn't take clips. And I don't think you see any rifles with a box mag in wide use until the 1886 manlicker and 1888 lee medford and 1888 mauser
it wouldn't have been a major concern because modern artillery and machine guns weren't used en mass until WWI and most rifles, especially after the 1886 lebel could shoot way farther than pre WWI canons so most combat between the end of the US civil war and the start of WWI was literally dudes lining up like a km away and single loading and volley firing at other lines of infantry. and most of the conflicts at the time would have been minor see the spanish American war and/or vs natives in a colonial despite, see the bongs in africa and the philipino insurrections

lever action anon woke up today and this was his hill to die on

>>17780965
Lever actions are for white people, bolt actions are for homosexuals. I do not own a single bolt action as I am not a homosexual

>>17780967
you don't own any guns

>>17781036
I own 4 guns

>>17781040
all lever action? i would call you autistic but that mean nothing in gun culture lol
good on you lever anon

>>17781050
>all lever action?
2 ARs, 1 lever rifle and 1 pump shotgun

>>17780847
I didn't consider box mag levers, I don't think I've ever held one

>>17781056
there are a few
winchester 1895
savage 99 (there were other iterations like the 1892 and 1895 what became the 99, like how the k98 or enfield were evolutions of previous models)
winchester 88/browning blr/sako finnwolf/henry long ranger/henry lever action supreme (literally all of these are basically slightly modified copies of the same gun)

Lever guns are ass and too expensive/complicated for multi-tens of million casualty wars

>Its another weapons thread
If they were so much better then they would’ve been used but they obviously weren’t because even the US military ditched them in favor of bolt actions.
>>17779649
Then why didn’t they use it more?

>>17781116
>>Its another weapons thread
weapons thread are based
>>17781110
>>17781116
it was basically just an issue or price, probably reliability and monkey see monkey do inertia.
The US was bankrupt after the civil war and lever actions at that time couldn't chamber the more powerful .45-70 round. the US didn't get into any peer conflicts at the time. then the yuros started making bolt guns starting in like the 1860s, it became the popular fad on the continent with the central powers of france, prussia and switzerland using them.
by 1886 the frogs developed smokeless powder and had it in a bolt gun. this lead to every other nation saying, fuck we need a .30 cal smokeless rifle. Bongland didn't use bolt until after 1886. the russians didn't use bolts until after 1886.
everyone rushed to adopt a modern smokeless rifle between like 1888 and 1892 (mauser, lee metford, nagant, krag) and then by then inertia was too strong to displace any of those guns with smokeless lever actions which only became a thing in 1895. not that the yuros would willingly drop a yuro design for an American design.
The Russians only adopted the 1895 because they needed guns and their factories were all at max production and that's what winchster said they could make
the US never widely adopted a domestic bolt action unless you count the limited use of the lee navy which was a straight pull.
We used the norwegen krag rifle, dropped it for a 1 to 1 copy of the 1898 mauser that we had to pay a fine on because it literally violated the nazi's copyrights and then the 1914 bong mauser clones before we jumped to the semi auto garand

>>17779618 (OP)
The lever gun is literally an inferior design that trades a vastly more expensive, complex, and fragile receiver and loading mechanism for a potentially higher rate of fire, a stat not even useful to most soldiers.

>>17781373
It's a high IQ action only high IQ individuals can manufacture and use

>>17781379
>which is why no state willingly used it past the 1880’s
>B-BUT MUH RUSSIA-
They were begging for guns and would go into battle with single shot breech loaders.

>>17780496
>the russians literally used them in WWI
And the russians lost WWI

>>17779618 (OP)
Fook off homo cowboy

>>17782217
>>17779618 (OP)
Be cool and sick if Austrian cavalry and Bulgarian sharpshooter use contract lever action while German stormtroopers equip the auto-semi combat shotgun + backsaw bayonet instead diplomatic complaints

>>17782303
No shotgun culture in Germany at the time

>>17782171
yuros just aren't high IQ enough.
>>17782217
that's because they are russian, not due to the guns

>>17782292
you clearly have no gunz and you are a eunuch
>>17782303
>>17782403
shotguns were a bong thing because no land and I guess and American thing because bong gun culture came over. nazis had more rifles, hence areas with more nazis Americans like Pennsylvania and wisconson famously had rifles and new england had shotguns (fowling pieces)

>>17781110
the turks, using lever guns, btfo'd the russians

>>17782403
Surely emperor Willy would love cooperating browning auto 5 shotgun into the military.
>>17782804
German are quick adapting fire arm like Lewis light machine gun

>>17782804
>eunuch
Nice projection, troon

>>17783638
nah, I own guns, you are a eunuch

>>17783649
>projecting
You won’t do shit if glownigga come take them.

>>17783666
lol you are projecting hard there, eunuch

>>17783684
denial about being in the wrong, tranny lover

>>17783762
I'm not, and you have no dick

>>17783771
t. HRT

>>17783774
thanks for letting me know you are on hrt

>>17783798
Homo in denial lol

>>17783807
we don't sign our posts here

>This thread

>>17783826
nah, you are the retard

>>17779618 (OP)
yuros did invent troons around that time

>>17784500
Yankike have more shemale population tho

>>17784526
nope, yurop does

>>17779618 (OP)
Do you ever get tired of this lame bait?

>>17784948
You know nafo troon, right

>>17784550
>>17783798
>>17783771
>>17783649
YWNBAW
>>17779707

>>17780502
>the 1860 henry predates any yuro repeater, to the point where the first yuro repeater used the magazine from the 1866 henry.
And they weren't widely much less fully implemented, they were specialty weapons.

Lever action rifles are genious when using a high power pistol round. The real big bonus of lever actions is they're smaller and handy, you can just hike with your gun in your hand without being annoyed over the weight. Keeping it ready to shoot when traversing dense brush and foilage.

>>17784948
it ain't bait
>>17785327
why are you linking random posts, tranny?

>>17785395
the turks and the injuns used them. the turks btfo'd the russians and caused the russians to upgrade from their single shots to the mosins
>>17785408
I think most lever guns have been .30-30 which isn't really a pistol round. it's like the same size as an AK or SKS round. winchester sold 7.5 million .30-30s and marlin sold 4 million .30-30s
in terms of rifles sold
1895 which shot normal military rifle rounds sold 460k which I think was mostly military contracts
the 1876 and 1886 which were big black powder fill rifles sold like in the 100ks each, like I think the 86 was 160k and the 76 sold even worse
the 1873 and the 1892 which were in handgun rounds like the .44-40 sold 3/4th of a million and a million guns. But the 1894 in .30-30 sold like 7.5 million and both winchester and marlin discontinued pistol caliber lever guns in like the 1920s and didn't start making them again until like 1969 when .44 magnum was invented

>>17785444
Ye, fair. I should have said intermediate round.

>>17779618 (OP)
Buy an add

>>17785802
GMS

lever anon im glad you're thread is going strong
can you perhaps expound upon the strategic role of lever action rifles in the american indian wars?
particularly how they were acquired in numbers by the indians which i understand led to them having an advantage in certain engagements
wasn't the battle of the little bighorn won by superior indian lever action fite power apposed to the single shot trap door rifle the cav troops mostly had?
i dont know if that's right
also weren't lever actions deployed in numbers during the civil war?
what difference did that make if any?

>>17785444
>the turks and the injuns used them. the turks btfo'd the russians and caused the russians to upgrade from their single shots to the mosins
The injuns didn't have a large aemy, unsure how many the Turks used by I imagine it wasn't enough to equip entire divisions. The point is that it was used by individuals or small, specialist cavalry units, Americans never used it as their main combat rifle.

>>17786004
>American military before 1940s had shoestring budget
>Indians could just buy guns from settlers in exchange for shit
>Indians had some better guns
Before the modern era standing armies were rarely if ever better equipped than what private individuals could reasonably afford. Even today the average American tacticool hillbilly is probably better armed than the basic infantryman from 80% of the world's infantry considering he'd probably have a rifle with optics, a sidearm, and possibly body armor up to and including level IV body armor.

>>17786004
>particularly how they were acquired in numbers by the indians which i understand led to them having an advantage in certain engagements
>wasn't the battle of the little bighorn won by superior indian lever action fite power apposed to the single shot trap door rifle the cav troops mostly had?
according to wikipedia and the book they cite at least there is only physical evidence of the injuns having about 20 individual henry rifles at little big horn and little big horn was 1876 so the original henry 1860 would have been 16 years old and the 1866 would have been 10 years old. They could have obtained the rifles via trading fur at outposts or by taking them off of dead men they raided as henry rifles were somewhat popular (as far as they could be at that price point) with people who had to go out west and were in fear of being raided.
there was also one hill in particular that a lot of the henry casings were found

>>17786051
some number (I don't think it was actually that large of a number) of rough riders had 1895 winchesters in .30 army because Teddy was autistic and didn't want to use a krag

>>17785427
Shut up tranny

>>17786193
we don't sign our posts here

OP is a fags

>>17786004
idk how much the lever guns really mattered. there was only physical evidence for about 20 individual henry rifle at the battle. the injun forces outnumbered the Americans at least 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 1 and the Americans though there were way fewer injuns, like they sent 3 detachments to go after them thinking any one of the 3 would win and one of the other 3 already had retreated before custard and his guy's got there. Then when the actual fighting started Reno basically ended up right on top of the camp due to tree cover. got turned back (this might have been the hill they found all the henry casings on) then his buddy got shot and he started acting erratically for the rest of the battle and prevented anyone else in the 7th cav from helping custard. Like to the point where he overruled custard's orders and refused to allow the troops to split off to go help him and also fucked off at one point to go look for his friend's body

>>17779618 (OP)
>The yuros feared the lever gun in the 1800s as the lever gun is the action of the white man. instead the yuros chose the bolt action, the action of the homosexual
Interesting to hear to that according your claim practically all military forces (including those of US) that took part in World War 1 and World War 2 were supposedly homosexual since they used bolt-action rifles.

>>17779639
>Lever actions were typically issued to Cavalry because they were quick and allowed Cavalry units to be more agile
Nope - all wrong. I get it that this most definitely is not /K/, but if you do not know anything about the subject beyond maybe watching few westerns (who btw tend to give false picture what was actually used), how about not making false claims. Winchester m1895 posted by OP was used by Russian infantry in World War 1. Winchester rifles were not widely used by cavalry by any country at any point - even for US cavalry of Indian Wars trapdoor Springfield carbines were the standard. And what replaced trapdoor Springfield you may ask - the answer would be first Krag and later Springfield M1903 - both of which are bolt-action rifles.

The reason why lever-action rifles were replaced by bolt-action rifles was mainly that belt-action rifles were more durable and easier to maintain.- structurally they just have fewer things that can go wrong. Early lever-actions were made what would now be considered hand-gun cartridges, but later designs like Winchester m1886 or m1895 were designed for more powerful cartridges, so it was not an issue that could not be overcome.

>>17787806
>Interesting to hear to that according your claim practically all military forces (including those of US) that took part in World War 1 and World War 2 were supposedly homosexual since they used bolt-action rifles.
they were. also the US didn't make domestic bolt guns because that's for homosexuals. we made Krags under license, stole the mauser design and produced it illegally and then produced the bong mausers/enfields in factories we set up originally for the bongs

>>17786467
>>17786085
20 rifles doesn't sound like much piecemeal, but if the indians kept their shooters concentrated like the large amounts of casings in some areas indicate that fire could have been devastating
20 guys in a line with repeating rifles can probably saturate an area like 200 single shots would

>>17787953
yeah, I'm not sure where they concentrated them, but if you google
>henry hill little bighorn
there are references to some document that says most of the casings were found on one specific hill. My guess would be that was the hill they turned Reno back during his initial attack. Custard only had 210 men with him and the rest of 700 men were with Reno and only like 260 men died so most of the deaths were with Custard. Either the lever guns were what stopped Reno in the first place and made him lose his nerve and prevented him from giving aid to Custard and then Custard got outnumbered or the henry rifles were near custard's ridge and helped break his lines there so he could get surrounded and wiped out

>>17787970
>>17787953
some other source said the injuns had 81 henry/winchester rifles (you wouldn't be able to tell because until 1873 winchester 1866s which are basically an upgraded henry rifle only came in the same ammo as the henry rifle) and that a lot of the rounds were shot at custard's group