Thread 17783501 - /his/ [Archived: 870 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:25:39 PM No.17783501
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Seriously... Outside of names or very trivial shit what are the differences between Aryan and Semitic paganism? People get very anal about this but it seems evident that they were extremely similar - Western Eurasians collectively had a certain attitude towards religion - and Abrahamism emerged as a reaction *against* this so it was fairly successful in Western Eurasia but struggled in the Far East and other places that had a totally alien mindset. It was also very fluid before Abrahamism spread many Europeans were adopting Semitic gods like Aphrodite and Baal - and it obviously went the other way as well. Before anyone calls me brown or Jewish my ancestors are all Germans and Slavs.
Replies: >>17783505 >>17784542 >>17784796 >>17784802
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:27:23 PM No.17783505
>>17783501 (OP)
The Middle East was much whiter in antiquity and got more brown over time starting with the Islamic conquests.
Replies: >>17783511
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:30:13 PM No.17783511
>>17783505
Damn the Arabs must've been having like 500 kids each that's crazy
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 4:39:05 AM No.17784542
>>17783501 (OP)
There is too much diversity to make a generalization like that, so I would say that the foundations for the question are faulty.
Regardless, a big difference is the particularity of Gods in Semitic religion. Gods were extremely local, usually overlooking just one major city or a small region. And it often had almost a sports league like feeling of regions having their mascot deities in conflict with others. Gods were really thought to live in their chosen areas and had to be sustained with sacrifices in a fairly physical sense.
While Indo-European Gods were still ethnically delineated, there was a greater sense of Gods covering a much larger area and ruling over all humanity equally. While some places had particularly important temples or shrines, no one would have thought that Apollo or Thor would have had a particular preference for a certain city in the same way or that they lived in them. As well, people didn't think that their sacrifices were physically sustaining the Gods, honoring them, yeah. But not feeding them and keeping them powerful.
Replies: >>17784557
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 4:46:52 AM No.17784557
>>17784542
>Regardless, a big difference is the particularity of Gods in Semitic religion. Gods were extremely local, usually overlooking just one major city or a small region. And it often had almost a sports league like feeling of regions having their mascot deities in conflict with others. Gods were really thought to live in their chosen areas and had to be sustained with sacrifices in a fairly physical sense.
This is literally how European paganism worked outside of a few fringe cases like what the Romans tried to do
Replies: >>17784601
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 5:01:22 AM No.17784601
>>17784557
Really not at all.
I tend to have the most knowledge of the Norse here. While there seemed to be a general preference for certain Gods in certain regions, Freyr was more popular in Sweden than Iceland, for example, there definitely wasn't an idea that the Gods were localized in any certain vicinity. Some Gods being more popular in certain areas than others is to be expected, Freyr was an agricultural deity, and there was a lot more farming in Sweden than Iceland.
Even monotheism has this effect, where certain interpretations of the Christian God are geographically associated.

But no Norse Chief would have claimed that his mead hall was the home of a God and wouldn't have sacrificed alcohol and meat and grain to feed him for the up coming war.
Replies: >>17784689
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 5:42:37 AM No.17784689
>>17784601
>wouldn't have sacrificed alcohol and meat and grain to feed him for the up coming war
Maybe they didn't use the 'feeding' terminology, but they certainly would've sacrificed to various gods for help e.g. in war. Consider Athena in Athens or Mars in Rome.
As for localization of gods, Semitic deities weren't thought to be spatially bound either, even though there was generally a very strong association with a god and his/her city of patronage.
I would also like to add generally that our records of Near Eastern/Semitic deities are much older than those of European deities. It seems probable that the apparent increased degree of subtlety in veneration/worship of European gods may have more to do with their later date and the corresponding tendency towards subtlety of thought over time.
Replies: >>17785278
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:03:45 AM No.17784796
>>17783501 (OP)
Aryans and other Pagans considered that the goal of their religions was to uphold the divine order (Maat, Arta, Asha, Dao, etc) on Earth so that Chaos doesn't spread there.

Semites, meanwhile, perceived reality as a battleground where 70 male gods, each with their own Chosen Race, fought to succeed El's throne. Every aspects of their religion was geared toward enhancing the biological fitness of their tribe and its population size, all in order to bring victory to dominate the Earth and and ultimataly for their tribal God to attain supremacy in Heaven.

They were very different.
Replies: >>17784802 >>17784854
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:11:14 AM No.17784802
>>17783501 (OP)
>>17784796
In short:
Aryans and co. = Order vs. Chaos
Semites = Me and my tribal God vs. Everyone else
Replies: >>17784854
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:02:52 AM No.17784854
>>17784796
>>17784802
>t. doesn't know anything about Near Eastern religion or mythology
Maybe try reading sometime instead of just making shit up.
Replies: >>17784874
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:19:18 AM No.17784874
>>17784854
Go ahead and instruct me. Since you know so much, retard.
Replies: >>17784924
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 9:12:24 AM No.17784924
>>17784874
Sure.
The Enuma Elish is literally about Tiamat, the embodiment of chaos, being defeated by the god Marduk, who thus brought order. Most if not all Semitic religions feature a similar story, which establish the theme of order versus chaos, and which predate what is known of European religions. It is likely that they even inspired them.

Also, the Egyptian religion (you mention Maat) is more closely related to Near Eastern religions and culture than European ones.
Replies: >>17784955 >>17785283
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 9:39:10 AM No.17784955
>>17784924
>Tiamat
The Enuma Elisha is a Sumero-Babylonian myth, it's doesn't reflect the Semitic spirit unlike Torah and the Mesha stele which are pure Semitic myths about tribal gods and tribal warfare. Additionally, there's no internal evidence in the text supporting that Tiamat is linked to Chaos, on the contrary she is the mother of the Gods.

>Near Eastern religions and culture than European
Ancient Egyptians were unrelated to Semites. Both genetically as they were R1b rather than J1 and culturally as they were agriculturalists rather than bedouins like the Semites.

.
Replies: >>17784983
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 10:27:24 AM No.17784983
>>17784955
>The Enuma Elisha is a Sumero-Babylonian myth, it's doesn't reflect the Semitic spirit
Mesopotamia issentially the fount of other Near-Eastern religions. Akkadian is a Semitic language, and the Akkadians upheld the myths in a way akin to the Romans in regard to the Greek religion. Why doesn't its influence count?
>Additionally, there's no internal evidence in the text supporting that Tiamat is linked to Chaos, on the contrary she is the mother of the Gods.
You could say the same thing about e.g. Ymir or Pandu. It seems to be implied to be an embodiment of chaos.
>Ancient Egyptians were unrelated to Semites. Both genetically as they were R1b rather than J1 and culturally as they were agriculturalists rather than bedouins like the Semites.
How could you know this with any certainty? The Egyptian language is closer to Semitic, and historically there was a far greater degree of intermixing in trade and war versus with Indo-European groups. There was also a large degree of cultural influence, e.g. the Egyptian gods were influenced by the Mesopotamian, Phoenicians used Egyptian-styled sarcophagi.

There is no clear-cut distinction between "Semitic" and "non-Semitic" religious systems in the way you seem to imagine. Religions and cultures cross-pollinate to such a degree that it is near impossible to unravel the threads.

This aside, I do agree that the broadly Canaanite streams of Near Eastern religion were largely as you describe them, that is, war-like and idolatrous. Although the ancient Israelites shared a high degree of superficial similarities with their neighbors, they were essentially unique in that they favored true monotheism (one all-powerful, transcendent God), and were concerned with an inwardness of consciousness and morality (rather than mere outward appearances). This, however, is beyond the current scope of discussion.
Replies: >>17785283
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 3:05:25 PM No.17785278
>>17784689
The mechanic being different is very meaningful.
For example the Norse did commit human sacrifice, at least some time. In the saga's its documented and Adam of Bremen documents some more of it. But these were sacrifices that were designed to honor the Gods and show respect to them.
Compare that to the Aztecs that literally believed that human sacrifice was the key to saving the world and the Gods from destruction and they were feeding the Gods with human blood.
The distinction is important because it is very theologically meaningful to the believers.
Appealing to Odin for help in battle is entirely different from believing that he was fighting along side you and you had to feed him like a warrior to keep him strong.

I won't comment much on the second point other than to disagree with the idea of there being any constant direction to human philosophical development or that this rate of development is shared between societies.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 3:11:35 PM No.17785283
>>17784924
>>17784983
>chaoskampf
Jungian pseudo-historical reaching.
They just turn every villain into a representation of Chaos and every hero into one of order.