isn't it weird of greeks deny their slavic heritage?

>>17790416 (OP)
source: dude trust me

>>17790416 (OP)
Greeks are Greek

>>17790421
>>17790423
not op but the greeks of today are romanized slavs who in the 19th century just started larping as ancient greeks because some obsessed british and frenchman wanted ancient greece back. the entire country is built on this lie. said hellenophiles went to greece and started talking in ancient greek to them and the locals had absolutely no clue what the fuck the westerners were talking about. they identified as romans. the greeks eventually started artificially replacing slav/turkish/roman terms with greek ones. its hilarious

>>17790454
greeks also are very sensitive towards that and just started lying to themselves that the greek identity was always present and secretly passed from generaton to generation. they believe the ottomans tried to eradicate it but the greeks persisted through "secret schools". its universially agreed this is a made up lie.
in fairness the greeks were not completely ignorant of ancient greeks, but to say they felt kinship towards spartans ot whatever is just completely false. though no greek today will EVER admit to it, the mainlanders who are genetic slavs are especially butthurt about it

>>17790461
the secret schools thing is about eastern romanism and christianity, not ancient greece, though its correct the greeks made this shit up as a coping mechanism and national victim complex myth

>>17790416 (OP)
>>17790421
>>17790454
>>17790461
>>17790466
Greeks are today genetically 90% similar to Ancient Greeks with a few outliers. Most slavshits just converted to pisslam and now are part of the """""turkish"""""" (LMFAO) race

In the Peloponnese there are random villages that have very Slavvy vibes still, also in cemetaries there are gravestones with Slavic letters on them and pictures of people who look very Slavic. But on admixture charts they'd probably be 33% max.

>>17790454
t. mehmetzuoglu (turkish ultranationalist, 1/8th greek, 1/8th persian, 1/4th armenian, 1/4th syrian, 1/8th serbian, 1/8th albozerg)

>slow board
>its pointed out the "hellenic" republic is a larp fest
>immedaitely 2 greeks sperg out about turks
joke of a country, only macedonians pretending they arent bulgarians are lamer. no wonder it took them centuries to get "independence"

>>17790472
Greeks today are also 98% genetically similar to chimpanzees. This means nothing without further context and qualification.

>>17790488
>apetheist starts chimping out about how he's a monkey again

>>17790486
>Abdulkerim starts shitposting on /his/ instead of getting a job again
at least it's a better hobby than aggressively stalking your female relatives, hope you give that one up someday

>>17790502
no need to project your circle family tree onto me aristotlic. just be glad you got away with your larp

>>17790472
nigga, you have to stop lying.

why do greeks want everyone to view them as ancient hellenes so badly. its such a ridiculous claim. imagine some egyptian saying we wuz pharaos

>>17790421
>>17790481
You are Turkish

>>17790416 (OP)
So what happened to the original Greeks?

>>17790533
lost to romans and had their identity replaced

>>17790527
Because there's literally nothing else

>>17790534
""""""""""""""lost""""""""""""""
Greeks took over the Roman society very quickly after """"losing"""", in fact the Roman Empire was ruled by Greeks for over 1000 years... longer than it was run by latincucks

>>17790537
>conquered and subjugated
>somehow not a loss
Cmon nigga be real

>>17790539
Conquered sure, not that it's a huge display of strength for a massive mediterranian spanning empire to conquer some city states with the assistance of other Greeks. But you also have to admit that Greeks won in the end. The centre of power moved to Constantinople, the empire was run by greek administrators, the emperors were soon greek as well

>>17790533
Same like the original Latin, it has survived only as a language and a marker of cultural identity.

>>17790537
>Greeks took over the Roman society very quickly after """"losing"""", in fact the Roman Empire was ruled by Greeks for over 1000 years..
Wouldn't call 800 years of native Latin speakers being the rulers of the Roman state before the first Greek one quick.

>>17790550
even so they learned greek in their childhoods, used greek in personal correspondence, learned oratory from greek teachers and gave speeches in greek in the senate, many functionaries and administrators with real power were greek thanks to much better literacy

>>17790541
>not that it's a huge display of strength for a massive mediterranian spanning empire to conquer some city states with the assistance of other Greeks.
The Greek cities did not give support to the Roman military in conquest. The army was effectively nearly all Central Italians.
>the empire was run by greek administrators
Administrators before Diocletians reforms were made up by the personal retinue of the man assigned for the task, and therefore were nearly all Italians who spoke Latin. By Diocletian they were in part locals with appointees from the centre at the head.
>>17790552
>even so they learned greek in their childhoods
There are a few Emperors who did not know any Greek even despite their elite education, no Emperor from the Valentinianic dynasty knew Greek for example.
>used greek in personal correspondence
They did not. From personal letters that do survive from Romans, they write in Latin to each other. In capacity as a public official they had to use Latin, it was completely unacceptable to use any other language.
>and gave speeches in greek in the senate
They absolutely did not do this, nor would it be any proper conduct for a holder of a Roman public office to do so. Greek was not used in any official capacity by the Roman state until Late Antiquity even when it would have made sense like with signage in the Near East.
>many functionaries and administrators with real power were greek thanks to much better literacy
As before. Administrators were those who were tied to the man sent out to do the job, who would have been from Italy. Functionaries were all political appointments and were also nearly all Italian. Only in local administration as with cities did Greek have a stronger place but that was also because it acted effectively independently from Roman administration. Latin was the sole language of law until the 6th century when Justinian allowed Greek to be used in official legal works and law.

>>17790561
Totally wrong.
https://www.academia.edu/26693862/_2013_Greek_Language_in_the_Roman_Empire
>explores the significant role of the Greek language in the Roman Empire, particularly its function as a common language (koine) in administration and culture following Hellenistic influences. It discusses how Greek became not only the educational language of the upper class in Roman society but also the prevailing lingua franca in the eastern provinces, impacting local cultures and languages.

>>17790571
This paper doesn't actually say anything about Roman use of Greek in administration. The evidence provided is that of common transmission to the public and not an internal language used, which was normal everywhere in the Roman state. You can just take the letters of Pliny the Younger and Trajan. Pliny dealt in an area which was almost all Greek speaking, his letters were all in Latin both those he sent and received. It does not say anything about personal use against Latin, merely saying that it was a language used by elites to engage with literature and not as a working language outside of this.
So, you haven't actually countered any of my points.

>>17790461
>secret schools
I’ve heard similar from Koreans talking about Japanese occupation. Desu maybe it’s more believable because 35 years is a lot shorter than the hundreds of years Greece was conquered.

>>17790527
>egyptian saying we wuz pharaos
It’s true though.

>>17790454
Greeks just like everyone else in the balkans is a mix of slav+various tribes that lived in the area before the slav migrations

>>17790481
kek

>>17790541
This is like Albanians jerking off to be conquered by the Ottomans but having some of Albanians becoming Grand Viziers. Why don’t you jerk off about Greeks doing the same thing in the Ottoman Empire because some of the Grand Viziers and a lot of the people in the administration were Greek? But that’s not as cool o algo to you though, is it?

>>17790681
Greeks rise to the top wherever they go. I thought your idea was that today's greeks are all russians or some retarded shit mehmet? If anything this proves otherwise

>>17790727
I’m not the same person you’ve be arguing with. I have no skin in this game. I’m just pointing out your cope. Either say Greeks were conquered but did well regardless or keep coping.

>>17790733
I don't argue with that, greeks were conquered but they also took control of both empires that managed it despite being a tiny minority. Also, greeks themselves conquered many people. Greek accomplishments are more than 99% of ethnic groups can ever say

The Balkans and Asia minor have always been a melting pot since ancient times, Greeks have all kinds of heritage but mainly Greek. 1 million people came from Asia minor during the exchange of 1922 and they were as Greek as they could be, maintaining their language and traditions in an unbroken way. The slavic thing is mostly a northern Greece thing and a thorny issue due to the wars with Bulgaria and civil war.

I remember seeing some poll result that showed greeks as the by far most chauvinsistic people in europe. looking at this thread i get the impression it was accurate. greeks truly are the most arrogant and deluded people around how far up your own ass can your head be

>>17790814
Just like in my epopeyas

>>17790814
Not even the Greek or the French or the Brits have anything on the smug arrogance of the average T*rd.

>>17790454
>>17790461
So who are the “true” descendants then?

>>17790822
delusional and coping. greeks are by far the most (undeservedly) arrogant people in the broader european sphere. french people are also horrible but nobody comes close to greeks, not even turks. british people are quite down to earth actually

>>17790814
>>17790833
oh no no no mehmed is having another meltdown because he got BTFO in his own seethe thread

>>17790472
Neither of these are true. You're brown, by the way.

>>17790985
You're obsessed and mentally raped

Greeks are Christians Turks.

>>17790480
There were still Slavic speakers in the Peloponnese during the 15th century, it's totally bonkers to deny that Greeks (and especially those in the north) have a meaningful Slavic component in them. Modern Greeks are basically a blend between Anatolian settlers brought over post-Slavic invasion by the Byzantines (this is corroborated by syntax/morphology features in European Greek dialects which suggest influence from medieval Anatolian Greek), Slavs, and a remnant population of pre-medieval "local" Greeks.

>>17791000
That's funny. You deny your own heritage to fit a meme identity created by 19th century kraut aristocrats, and your interest in history obviously doesn't extend beyond ooga booga wewuz sloganeering. That's way more neurotic than anything I said.

(I wrote this assuming you're actually Greek and not just a shitskinned Levantine monkey larping as one while ducking from Israeli bombing runs)

>>17790972
im neither op nor am i having a meltdown im laughing at one of the least accomplished "western" european countries stealing ancient history to make up for their lack of success. nobody is jealous of greece except of its nature.

Greeks are mostly Ancient Greek
Turks are Turkic
Albanians are Illyrians
Italians and European romance-speakers are Romans

Cope, seethe and dilate
Historical contrarians are wrong and always have been wrong, so-called myths are actually closer to the truth than the "innovative" bullshit they spew.

>>17791058
>one of the least accomplished "western" european countries
This is such a meme, I have no idea how westoids keep falling for that scam. Drive across the border from Bulgaria to Greece and the only difference you'll find are the kitschy Poseidon statues in touristy coastal towns. Well, that and the fact that most people in Greek Thrace are the grandkids of 20th century transplants from Trabzon and Izmir, a few shades darker than the local Pomak mountaineers. Most of Greece feels indistinguishable from the remainder of the Balkans.

>>17791089
>Greeks are mostly Ancient Greek
Sort of? Ancient Greeks, sure, but largely the descendants of colonists from Anatolia.
>Turks are Turkic
The most "Turkic" Turks are like one quarter medieval Turkmen, most have significantly less conqueror heritage than that.
>Albanians are Illyrians
Heavily debatable, proto-Albanian toponyms are mostly found inland (the southern Morava basin), while the archeological culture associated with early medieval Albanians (Komani-Kruj culture) is centered on the fringes of historical Illyria (northern Albania, eastern Montenegro, and western Macedonia). This places them at best on the easternmost frontier of Roman Illyria, they could be the descendants of some other paleo-Balkan population such as Thracians or Paeonians or something.
>Italians and European romance-speakers are Romans
Only one I'll pass on because I don't know a lot about that topic.

Indigeneity is a meme and you fell for it.

>>17790454
It's real in your head I am sure

>>17790481
No, the guy is either a bulgarian or an albo

>>17791996
I'm afraid it's worse, they're actually... may God forgive me for uttering this word... Albanians

>>17792000
>we wuz shqips
called it >>17791999

>>17792004
>first post says greeks are slavs
>second post says greek are actually albanians
>anon concludes that the same person made both posts
detective popodopolopolous, I...

>>17792027
>implying this isnt a samefag thread
????

>>17792033
you're right. in fact you're me, but phoneposting

>>17791009
If you plug early slavs from Poland/Ukraine in with Marathon_Rom and Mycenaeans and I think I added medieval Albanians even, modern Greeks do have hefty Mycenaean/Ancient Greek levels averaging ~30%. If you plug south slavs in instead, their Mycenaean drops to like 5-10% if it shows up at all. I think the slavs who settled there actually probably were core slavs and not southern ones though, looked into this once but not carefully. Factoring in all of the migrations including Arvanites and Vlachs, I don't know. Balkan groups and Anatolian Greeks that migrated in would have been partly Mycenaean descended though. Haven't looked into the uniparentals. They're no less Greek than most early Greeks were if Greekness then was measured as how connected you were to Logkas-like people and so on and so forth.

>>17791009
Bulgarian here, I actually struggle to believe this, because even in Bulgaria the population is probably more Mediterranean and Armenian than Slavic.
To give an example, Georgi Parvanov is a mostly Slavic Bulgarian. Boyko Borisov on the other hand is mostly Mediterranean. Most Bulgarians I see look roughly as Mediterranean as Borisov, typically more so. Then there are also the Armenian descended population, which is significant in size and immediately identifiable by a learned observer, and of course the significant gypsy and gypsy-descended population.
The Slavic descended folks are also identifiable, and if you look carefully you notice that they are basically indistinguishable from other Slavs found in Russia, Belarus, Poland etc. But there aren't too many of those.
Given that Bulgaria was closer to the Slavic invasions and was created with a specifically Slavic character, I think the relatively low presence of Slavic people here should indicate an even lower percentage for Greece. I would imagine most of their ancestry would resemble that of the Mediterranean components in Bulgaria (that is, a mix of ancient Greco-Roman and a lot of ancient MENA), with the gypsy and Turkish elements as well.

>>17792147
American here...
I think you guys might have more medieval Anatolian/Turkish ancestry on average than at least southern Greeks do, just more slavic as well which balances things out on a PCA. Just geography and logistics. Mountainous as hell for one down there. If they weren't settling by boat they'd have been cutting through Thrace and it'd make sense if Northern Greece and Southern Bulgaria were where land peoples (there are sea people, we forget about land people) from or coming through Turkey congregated most.

>>17792147
None of what you said is based on anything but memes.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajpa.70037

>>17792179
Personally, I think Bulgarians have more Peruvian, Finnish, and Khoisan admixture, because I saw one who kind of looked that way (it was dark and foggy) and eh, that's good enough.

>>17792179
Genuine Anatolian ancestry is just ancient Greco-Roman. As far as "Turkish" ancestry goes, I don't believe it's a real thing. Turk was a religious term, not a national one, which is why you find accounts of various people (including for example Dutch pirates) "turning Turk". Modern Turks are identifiably different from actual Turkic people, at a glance. My assumption is that they were already completely ethnically (but not culturally) assimilated by 1600 at the latest.
In the case of an Anatolian influx into Bulgaria, it would probably be based on the same ancient Greek/MENA ancestry that I associate with Mediterraneans in general. But I don't think this type of migration would have made significant contributions to the gene pool (I think the large Mediterranean contingent was indigenous); Islamic populations would have retained their religious identity and would have probably merged with local converts as well, which would make them a part of our "Turkish" minority, which to be honest probably has much higher and purer levels of Slavic ancestry than the general person. All the Bulgarian Turks I have met in my life were blonde, blue eyed, and with Slavic features.
>>17792183
Up to 40% Mediterranean (Greco Roman + MENA) ancestry is still no small percent. I think some of this may be down to the sampling as well, in Sofia the Mediterranean, Armenian and gypsy phenotypes predominate significantly. Granted, there may also be a data bias due to personal experience - you are probably likely to run into the least employed and productive strata of the population walking around town, especially during work hours. It's a similar phenomenon in the West as well, in many Western cities the natives are a lot less visible mainly because they are chiefly either at home or at work, rather than on the streets.
It would be a pleasant surprise if Bulgaria is 60% Slavic, since I am a Pan-Slavist myself. >>17792188
I believe it.

>>17792212
Bulgarians don't even plot far from one another on PCA, gauging someone's ancestry by phenotype is retarded pseud shit when genetic recombination explains it handily. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling, but you have a poor understanding of genetics (and physiognomy).

>>17792212
Bulgarians don't even plot far from one another on PCA, gauging someone's ancestry by phenotype is retarded pseud shit when genetic recombination explains it handily. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling, but you have a poor understanding of genetics (and physical anthropology).

>>17792229
Well, the "retarded pseud shit" works, unfortunately. It would be even more effective if it wasn't for advanced, modern transport technology.
I can pretty reliably tell not only which part of Europe someone is from, but even what sub-group they belong to or their social class (based on knowledge of the history of that sub-group and appearance). I can go outside on the street and recognise people descended from the Armenian refugees we took in. I can do many more things, as well. And I know I am not the only one, because I have met random people who could also identify my racial sub-group composition just by taking a look at my face.
So if you say something like "phenotypes don't matter", I am not going to take you seriously. If phenotypes didn't matter, I wouldn't be able to distinguish the crowd in Sofia from that of Moscow or that of Madrid. But I can. And despite what you say, so can you. So it appears that phenotype and genetics have a significant connection, after all.

>>17792244
It's over, brain drain destroyed Bulgaria and now all we're left with are people like this.

>>17792258
Sorry to break this to you anon but I am actually IQ tested and unironically score in the 99th percentile. I have also lived in the UK for many years but spend my holidays in various Slavic countries.
For what it's worth, I think there are many other huge problems in Bulgaria in addition to brain drain. So don't feel too bad.

>>17790527
>why do greeks want everyone to view them as ancient hellenes so badly. its such a ridiculous claim.
Because the rest of their history SUCKED.
>"But muh Byzantium!"
A shithole no better than any muslim sultanate.

>>17790454
Ah yes, Rome, which has nothing at all to do with Greece and Greek culture. You need to fucking kill yourself monkeydonian.

>>17790416 (OP)
They don't want to admit that the Slavs made them no look like Pakis

>>17790461
Stop making shit up you faggot. Maniots, who were pirates and mercenaries even until the times where they pillaged and destroyed ottoman sissies in war, are the genetically closest to Mycenaeans on the mainland. Their culture is their own. They were Romans since that's their pre ottoman occupation identity, and speaking GREEK the language of their ancestors is what kept them together. Christian, Roman/antique past, their own regional traditions and the language of Greek are what kept them cohesively as Greek. It's always larpers like monkeydonians (fake country, just Bulgarians) Albanians (lowest IQ in Europe, mobsters and we wuzzers per excellence) and turkroaches (abomination mutt race of mudslime imperialists who got BTFO) with their thridworld low IQ takes which try to strip nationhood/identity from Hellas, since they have wet dreams about reoccupying and LARPing as the greatest, so they make shit up and pass it as true- denying a people's existence and right to exist is the first step in genocide, which disgusting turkroaches and other Balkan armpits in eastern Europe excel at. Move the fuck on you disgusting idiot, no one is buying your low IQ bullshit.

>>17793156
No wonder Greeks stopped being relevant. Slavs ruined them