Can anyone refute this?

https://lunkstack.substack.com/p/roosevelts-war-the-pearl-harbor-conspiracy

>>17805405 (OP)
Britain and America wanted war with Japan. That's also why they sanctioned them.

>>17805405 (OP)
He certainly created the conditions for it to happen. He provoked Japan into attacking the U.S. by placing that oil embargo on them. Sure anyone can say it was the right thing to do but was it really worth sacrificing 400,000 American lives?

Japan was going to attack the United States one way or another anyways. You retards act like this all hinges on an oil embargo which is retarded. The US controlled The Philippines at this time you morons, they were going to get in Japans way of trying to build a pan-Pacific empire whether there was an oil embargo or not

>>17805414
Ah the Philippines, since America owned it, America and Japan could never avoid going to war in Asia because of it.

>>17805414
>Hey JAAAAPAN
>It's Commodore Perry
>*aims American guns at the population of Kyoto*
>You better trade with us if you know what's good for you

>Hey Japan
>We see you are at war with the Chinese, how terrible
>we hate the Chinese but we hate you more so we're embargoing you
>even though we forced you to trade with us before
>also your only allies are going to be destroyed and you're going to be encircled
>hope you don't do anything bold haha that would be terrible

>>17805409
>>17805414
Please enter the link provided and address its claims and citations directly

>>17805414
Wrong, the Japanese favored striking north before the oil embargo happened.
>inb4 Khalkhin Gol
Clearly that wasn’t enough to permanently dissuade them, what with them being suicidal and all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen

>>17805415
>Ah the Philippines, since America owned it, America and Japan could never avoid going to war in Asia because of it.
Yes, because Japan wanted The Philippines for themselves, it's literally the reason why the US postponed giving them their independence until after the war

>>17805414
How about Mexicans, will they help the Philippines in case of a Japanese attack? After all, during Spanish times, Mexico supplied colonists to the Philippines...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_settlement_in_the_Philippines

And the Philippines was governed as a territory of the Mexico-centered Viceroyalty of New Spain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Spain

>>17805405 (OP)
There was already an undeclared naval war between Germany and the US, but the Germans avoided doing anything too bold that would make the war official.
Roosevelt needed public support, and the vote in congress to get full war powers. He certainly had the incentive to knowingly provoke the Japanese into attacking and all evidence seems to indicate that he did

>>17805405 (OP)
>You don’t understand, I was FORCED to bomb your ships because you wouldn’t sell oil to me!
No, Japan was the aggressor. Rice niggers had ambitions of conquering he pacific for decades, war with America was inevitable.

>>17805414
>>17805419
At the end of the day the oil embargo, like the other 7 steps detailed in the McCollum memo, were motivated by a desire for war with Germany. FDR didn't give a rat's ass about the Philippines or China, he wanted to help the British(and then the Russians) against Germany. That's all there's to it.

>>17805427
>japan expanding in all directions, breaking treaty after treaty going into indochina, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia etc.
>Naturally, they would go after American territories in the pacific, something that was known they wanted to occupy
>They eventually attack as predicted, aiming for the biggest concentration of American warships to try and cripple the navy
>DURRR ITS A CONSPIRACY JAPAN WAS TRICKED THEY GOOD BOYS WHO DINDU NUFFIN
I hate fascist niggers and their retarded mental gymnastics so much.

>>17805409
>Just let the weaker kid in the playground take your lunch money bro, aren’t you afraid of getting a bloody nose?
If FDR did literally everything to avoid the war everyone who’s seething about him ITT would call him a pussy coward bitch and use that as proof of American democracies weakness.

>>17805419
We wuz benevolent Imperialists N Shiet!

>>17805439
Roosevelt was Germany First through and through, before and during the war. His actions betrayed his intentions.

>Even on the morning of December 7th, every Pacific outpost received warning messages from Washington of imminent attack (and was thus able to prepare for an assault) except Pearl Harbor.66 Time and again, Short and Kimmel were specifically kept in the dark about the gravity of their situation. The strategic assessments of top personnel in the Roosevelt administration leave little doubt as to why.
FDR lied, people died.

>Roosevelt’s Chief of Intelligence Sherman Miles had correctly assessed that Japan would only carry out their attack on an unprepared target.
>When asked during the Congressional inquiry why warnings concerning Japanese intercepts were so long withheld from Pearl Harbor (despite many protests by lower ranking officers), Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall testified, “they must not send anything that would produce an operational reaction . . . for attack or defense.”
In other words, leaving Pearl Harbor open to attack was a neccessity to rally the American public to war.

>...both ONI director Captain Alan Kirk and leading Navy cryptologist Laurance Safford proposed as early as October sending the bomb plot messages to Admiral Kimmel at Pearl Harbor to warn him of imminent attack. Their requests were denied, and Kirk was replaced shortly after. Safford, often referred to as the “father of U.S. naval cryptology,” remained convinced until his death in 1973 that the government had actionable knowledge of the Japanese plan and failed to act.

>Roosevelt did take action. His actions just didn’t include providing adequate warning to Pearl Harbor; they were directed elsewhere. In early November, he summoned to the White House Don Smith, director of the War Service for the American Red Cross, to discuss a “top secret matter.” Smith’s daughter recounted the meeting in 1995:
>“At this meeting, the President advised my father that his intelligence staff had informed him of a pending attack on Pearl Harbor, by the Japanese. He anticipated many casualties and much loss, he instructed my father to send workers and supplies to a holding area at a P.O.E. [port of entry] on the West Coast where they would await further orders to ship out, no destination was to be revealed. He left no doubt in my father's mind that none of the Naval and Military officials in Hawaii were to be informed and he was not to advise the Red Cross officers who were already stationed in the area. When he protested to the President, President Roosevelt told him that the American people would never agree to enter the war in Europe unless they were attack [sic] within their own borders . . . He [Smith] was privy to Top Secret operations and worked directly with all of our outstanding leaders. He followed the orders of his President and spent many later years contemplating this action which he considered ethically and morally wrong”

>>17805460
or that has more to do with the fact the idea Japan would be attacking pearl harbor was extremely unlikely

>>17805476
For at least a decade US war games predicted Pearl Harbor to be an obvious target for the Japanese, and in the months prior to the attack the "bomb plot" messages to Japanese collaborators in Hawaii were intercepted in unprecedented volume.

>On the evening of December 6th, there was again debate in Washington over whether to send Short and Kimmel a final alert in light of the pilot message. Navy Secretary Frank Knox drafted one for Kimmel and believed it to have been sent, but once again, it never was. The morning of the attack, Marshall and Stark’s staffs pressed them a third time to issue a final alert, but Marshall delayed, and Stark refused outright. The warning Marshall finally did send Kimmel—which arrived only after the attack was already over—still did not constitute a final alert.

>>17805485
The "pilot message" in question was the message from Japan's foreign minister to their ambassador about Japan's refusal to America's final terms in negotiation. It was decoded and translated by US intelligence before December 7, which of course meant they knew a Japanese attack is now certain.
They still did not alert Pearl Harbor.

>>17805405 (OP)
Roosevelt let the attack happen because taking visible steps to prevent it would've revealed that they had broken the Japanese code and spoiled America's biggest advantage. It was a painful sacrifice, but one that guaranteed victory. Also, nobody expected Japan to attack without declaring war first. Not even Japan did, they meant to have their ambassador deliver the declaration of war while the planes were in the air, but their meeting got delayed.

>Navy Secretary Frank Knox conducted the first official inquiry in the days immediately following the attack. After questioning dozens of relevant personnel in Hawaii, Knox was shocked to discover no warning message from the Navy Department ever arrived on the evening of December 6th, and included this key fact in his initial report. As it suggested negligence in Washington, Roosevelt coerced him to remove it from the report before release, giving him “verbatim wording” according to Knox’s aide Frank Beatty.

>>17805493
Why was MacArthur given full access to intercepts in Manila then?

>>17805499
Why not? MacArthur wasn't a Japanese spy, or at least didn't seem to be.

>>17805502
Are you implying that Admiral Kimmel and Major General Short were kept in the dark about the Japanese attack because of fears they are spies? Or that the Japanese had spies in Hawaii but not at all in the Philippines?

Roosevelt reaffirmed his false desire for neutrality at a speech in Philadelphia:
>“We will not participate in foreign wars, and we will not send our army, naval or air forces to fight in foreign lands outside of the Americas, except in case of attack”
Yet in August of 1941, at the Atlantic Conference (where Roosevelt and Churchill discussed their postwar global vision), Churchill noted the “astonishing depth of Roosevelt’s intense desire for war.” He gave details via cable to his cabinet:
>“The President . . said that he would wage war but not declare it, and that he would become more and more provocative. If the Germans did not like it they could attack…. Everything was to be done to force an incident . . . he obviously was very determined that [the U.S.] should come in”

>>17805506
Might seem like it from where you're standing, but what I'm trying to get at is you made a non-sequitur.

>>17805493
i know this is a dumb strawman pic, but actually it was japan that gave china to communism by slaughtering basically the entirety of the nationalist army
altho japanese are heavily propagandized and uneducated regarding wwii so they probably don't know or realize that

>Kilsoo Haan of the underground Sino-Korean People’s League first told Colonel George Patton of the plan. He would send Secretary of State Cordell Hull similar warnings in March and October specifying the attack would happen before Christmas. In November, convinced the State Department was uninterested in his information, Haan contacted Senator Guy Gillette and reporter Eric Sevareid, who forwarded the warnings to the State, War, and Navy Departments: “[Gillette] said that Haan had contacted him in late November, telling him that the Japanese Fleet had sailed under battle orders, east, not south, to attack Pearl Harbor or the Panama Canal.”
>Sevareid similarly recalled, “A young Korean-American would often drop into my Washington office. He was in touch with the anti-Japanese Korean underground. ‘Pearl Harbor’ he kept telling me, ‘before Christmas,’ but he could get no audience at the State Department.
>We can be certain high-level State Department personnel received at least one (though probably more) of Haan’s four warnings, as confirmed by a memo from special adviser Stanley Hornbeck to Cordell Hull from late October, in which Hornbeck commented:“Mr. Haan has from time to time furnished . . . information which proved authentic and also of value. We cannot dismiss Haan or information given by him.”
>Haan’s final desperate warning would come on December 4th, when he reported in a phone call with U.S. diplomat Maxwell Hamilton that the attack would come that weekend.

>>17805510
You said it was "worthy sacrifice" to neglect Pearl Harbor(which Roosevelt nonetheless placed the US fleet in, despite recommendations to place it in California. Just prior to the attack Admiral Kimmel was "suggested" to move the USS Enterprise and USS Lexington to Midway and Wake Island) in order to keep America's code-breaking capabilities from the Japanese. Yet Pearl Harbor was unique in its neglect, other locations like Manila would receive US intercepts regularly. When I asked how that follows your claim, you said that was because MacArthur wasn't a spy, so it was fine to give him access. The only conclusion to your logic then is that Kimmel and Short were kept in the dark because officials in Washington feared they were spies.

>Haan was not the only foreign source who tried and failed to prevent disaster at Pearl Harbor. Other warnings came from Serbian national Dušan "Duško" Popov, an MI6 double agent (codename “Tricycle”) who regularly passed intelligence to the British and Americans after infiltrating the Abwehr (German intelligence service) in 1940. In August of 1941, Popov arrived in Hawaii with instructions to gather intelligence on military installations and defensive capabilities there. The same month, Popov said in an interview with the FBI that he believed this information was intended for use by Japan in planning an upcoming air attack on Pearl Harbor with carrier-based torpedo bombers. He added that, to the same end, two Germans had shown Japanese naval personnel in Taranto (a coastal city in southern Italy) a precise method for launching torpedoes from the air at ships anchored in shallow water. Popov’s report was passed to J. Edgar Hoover, who in-turn passed it to the ONI and Edwin Watson, one of Roosevelt’s senior aides. British intelligence officials later commented that they considered the information “a strong indication” of an imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, adding that “it seems incredible that Pearl Harbor should not have been on the alert for a surprise . . . air raid.”

>Equally ignored were the warnings of Richard Sorge, a German journalist turned head of a Soviet spy ring in Japan, who in October of 1941 radioed his superiors in Moscow, “Japanese air force attacking United States Navy at Pearl Harbor probably dawn November six. Source reliable.” In May of 1951, John O’Donnell of the New York Daily News published an exposé on Sorge, quoting his previously undisclosed confession that this information was relayed by the Kremlin to top personnel in Washington, including Army Chief of Staff George Marshall and Chief of Naval Operations Harold Stark.

>In June of 1941, U.S. Army Major and undercover agent Warren Clear received word from British intelligence in Singapore that Japan planned to attack Pearl Harbor. He wrote in 1967 that “my evidence will show that Washington D.C. had solid evidence prior to [Pearl Harbor] that Japan would . . . [attack] Hawaii.” The same month, a U.S. military attaché in Mexico corroborated Clear’s information, adding that Japan was building “[midget] submarines for attacking the American fleet in Pearl Harbor.” The U.S.S. Ward would spot and sink one of these five submarines at 6:45 AM on December 7th, the opening shot of the Pacific War. Clear, still subject to military regulations at the time of the 1945 Congressional investigation of the attack, was prohibited by his superiors to appear before the committee.

>Another warning came on November 25th, 1941, when Admiral Yamamoto sent a radio transmission to the Japanese naval task force with orders to set out from Hitokappu Bay on the morning of the next day and “attack the main force of the United States fleet Hawaii and deal it a mortal blow.” The message was decoded by the British the same day,45 and the Dutch two days later. When the U.S. decoded the transmission has never been disclosed, though there is evidence its contents reached Roosevelt almost immediately. Around 3 AM on the following morning (November 26th) Churchill sent an urgent, secret message directly to Roosevelt. The contents of the message have likewise never been disclosed, though common sense would suggest it almost certainly concerned the momentous radio intercept of the previous day. Unsurprisingly, mere hours later, the Roosevelt administration moved to abandon its previous peace proposal to the Japanese, and Admiral Kimmel at Pearl Harbor received a “suggestion” from Stark that he dispatch the two aircraft carriers located there (the U.S.S. Enterprise and Lexington) to reinforce Midway and Wake Island. Both carriers would thus be absent from port on December 7th, and spared from destruction.

>Yet another warning came on December 5th, when British intelligence in Singapore determined (likely via radio direction finding) that the Japanese fleet had turned south toward Hawaii. Later accounts from British official Victor Cavendish-Bentick (chair of Britain’s Joint Intelligence Committee), confirm the fleet’s change in direction was quickly relayed to Washington.
>Years later, Cavendish-Bentick wrote: “We knew that they changed course. I remember presiding over a J.I.C. meeting [on December 5, 1941] and being told that a Japanese fleet was sailing in the direction of Hawaii, asking ‘Have we informed our transatlantic brethren?’ and receiving an affirmative reply . . . [We had given] the U.S. authorities . . . ample time to at least send most of the fleet out of Pearl Harbor.”

>>17805525
If you think that's a gotcha it's not. You're only just now revealing information that you withheld at first, i.e. that Kimmel and Short allegedly didn't get this intel that MacArthur did; that makes you look like a fool, not me. I said why not because you never gave a reason why not until just now. Now that you have, it just opens up more possibilities. Maybe Roosevelt was afraid if they had too much information, they would take matters into their own hands and ruin the plan.

>William Casey of the Office of Strategic Services (and later chief of the CIA), revealed the same in his 1989 memoir, The Secret War Against Hitler: “The British had sent word that a Japanese fleet was steaming east toward Hawaii.” With reference to the above and other indicators collected and relayed between November and December of 1941, the commander of British intelligence in Singapore wondered in a meeting with his staff the day after the attack, “with all the information we gave them, how could the Americans have been caught unprepared?”

>>17805542
>You're only just now revealing information that you withheld at first, i.e. that Kimmel and Short allegedly didn't get this intel that MacArthur did
That should be made obvious by your very first post: "Roosevelt let the attack happen." What do you think that entails exactly? Did you assume FDR ordered the officers on the ground to comply with his treasonous neglect and allow themselves to be bombed? No, it meant leaving them in the dark and keeping information away from them.

>One commonly cited explanation for the administration’s inaction is that Allied naval intelligence forces simply could not have known about the incoming attack based on radio communications because the Japanese fleet maintained complete radio silence enroute to Pearl Harbor. If there was no communication, no intercepts could possibly have been collected, no radio direction finding could possibly have yielded any results—so the argument goes. But this is flatly untrue. While the fleet commander, Admiral Nagumo Chuichi, did indeed order absolute silence when the task force assembled on November 25th, the order was subsequently modified a day later to allow radio communications by the fleet’s main striking force in cases of “extreme emergency,” and left those of other parts of the fleet (such as supply, repair, and hospital ships) to the discretion of their respective commanders. As both Japanese and American records confirm, numerous radio transmissions sent between November 26th and December 7th were from one part of the fleet to another.

>>17805549
Yes. I never said it was the right thing to do, don't shoot the messenger.

>>17805423
>Rice niggers had ambitions of conquering he pacific for decades
try centuries

>>17805405 (OP)
>All hinges on happenstance and "seems a little TOO convenient to ME (a retard)"
None of these theories ever have any sort of smoking gun that proves active malice.

>>17805633
>“if by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better.”

>>17805416
Kyoto was and is considerably inland, they aimed the guns at Edo
Also, the US at the time had quite good relations with China, Sino-American tension didn't become a thing until Mao won. Chiang had a US educated wife.

>>17805708
>An advisor's opinion
Lackluster evidence there, pal

>>17805888
>Director for Far East Asia at the Office of Naval Intelligence
>advisor's opinion
Every single one of the 8 steps he proposed have been implemented, seems his "opinion" passed with flying colors

>>17805718
>Also, the US at the time had quite good relations with China

Poor sweet summer child.

>>17805416
Retard. America specifically said DO NOT invade French Indochina or else the embargo happens. Pretty stupid to make the country supplying 90% of your oil angry

>>17805478
Except no wargames predicted it was the Philippines for a majority of the attack

>>17805446
>you are a coward for not starting a war on another continent over something that would never bother you

>>17806456
Yes, that’s what all the people (dishonest retards) seething about FDR ITT would claim if he capitulated and allowed Japan to do whatever it wanted in the pacific and take the Philippines and Hawaii without a fight. That he didn’t do that is the reason they are seething.

>>17805405 (OP)
The U.S. basically issued an ultimatum to Japan to withdraw from China or else the oil embargo stays (this was called the Hull Note) and they were certain Japan was going to reject it and then attack them, yeah.

>>17805446
That too. Pro-Axis types argue in bad faith but are at a loss when facing up to realist chads.

Japan butchered the European population of the Philippines.

Before the war, Spanish speakers (Mostly Spaniards, which in the newspapers were labelled as Native Spanish speakers) were 10% of the Philippines population. 10% of the country were literally Europeans.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091027105117/http://de.geocities.com/hispanofilipino/Articles/Estadisticas02Eng.html

But after the disaster of the Second World War, the European population of the Philippines was butchered and reduced by half, now only 5% of the population are European.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160704204736/https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

>>17806507
Spaniards are Middle Eastern

>>17806542
Are you retarded? Spain is the Westernmost European country, the farthest from the Middle "East".

Eastern Europeans are more Middle Eastern than Spaniards. But Spaniards can be more North African though as they are nearer to North Africa.

>>17805493
Is there a factory where they make these shit comics

>>17805446
True, he should have just joine the war on the good side instead.

>>17807428
But he did eventually join the good guys

>>17807438
The NRx?

>>17805405 (OP)
Yes. I'm glad Americans are going extinct and being replaced in their own kiked country. I'm also glad the kikes mutilated their genitals and sold their foreskins.

>>17805408
>>17805409
>>17805415
>>17805416
>17805418
The US embargoed Japan for invading French Indochina in 1940 you retards.

Japan signaled publicly that it chose the navy's plan of war in SEA with the west by seizing French Indochina, instead of the army's plan for war in Siberia, after Japan was defeated in Khalkhin Gol.

US did not embargo Japan for attacking China.

US did not drive Japan to war in SEA instead of the Soviets. Japan already chose that by taking French Indochina.

>>17806476
>Pro-Axis types argue in bad faith
this never happens.

>>17805409
>Sure anyone can say it was the right thing to do but was it really worth sacrificing 400,000 American lives?
To protect American sovereignty, yes.

>>17807807
Japan never would’ve been able to reach the U.S. mainland anyway.

>>17805405 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Orange

>>17805493
>taking visible steps to prevent it would've revealed that they had broken the Japanese code
Nagumo himself expected to have to fight his way out. It went far better for the Japanese than they had anticipated. With war in the Pacific being highly likely, it would've been elementary precautions.
Also, MacArthur in the Philippines had greater intel, was in the most obvious theater of war, and was still taken by surprise hours after Pearl Harbor had been attacked.

>>17805405 (OP)
>Nonetheless, even after Pearl Harbor, the Roosevelt administration always saw Germany, not Japan, as the primary geopolitical threat, and all its major decisions of the war were based on this assumption.
This is and was not secret.
>this antipathy pre-existed Nazi invasions and war crimes, and was not a function of them
The invasions and crimes were a logical, foreseeable consequence of the Nazis seizing power.
>, it was taken as a matter of obvious fact at all levels of the U.S. War Department that the American naval forces in Hawaii would be among Japan’s first targets at the outset of any potential conflict
That certainly wasn't obvious to the Imperial Japanese Navy; the route to that decision was winding and tortuous, and obsoleted much of Japan's prewar doctrine and strategy.
>reorganized their own navy with special emphasis on carrier-based air power.
Not true. Even as late as Midway, it was still battleshp-centric.
>Japan would boast the largest carrier fleet in the world, with eleven in active service (while the U.S. had only seven)
The US had the Essexes building, and they get that count by including conversions and light carriers.
>Both carriers would thus be absent from port on December 7th, and spared from destruction.
Enterprise was delayed by a storm, but scheduled to be in, and a few of its aircraft were shot down by the defenses after. If war war coming, ferrying aircraft to various islands was a legitimate and pressing activity, and the US at the time didn't have many ships capable of doing that.
>Miles had correctly assessed that Japan would only carry out their attack on an unprepared target
Incorrect.

>>17805409
>>17807807
>>17807837

The US embargoed Japan for invading French Indochina in 1940, posing an imminent threat to the US controlled Philippines. >>17807631

US did.not.embargo.Japan.for.attacking.China.