How do you make retards understand that without Thatcher's reforms the UK was going to become a third world shithole?

Of course her reforms were painful to the people that lived from decadent activities like coal mining, steel mills, shipyards, obsolete factories, etc. But the government just couldn't afford to keep subsidizing all those unprofitable businesses, and forcing the British population to buy locally made crap at insanely high prices.

Thanks the Thatcher's reforms UK businesses could globalize and start profiting from the rest of the world, and the UK became the second largest financial center in the world. Nothing of that would have happened without Thatcher's reforms, the UK would still be a decadent shithole with rationing and blackouts like it was back then.

Is it possible to make retards understand that supporting Thatcher isn't "being evil" but actually learning what was happening back in the day?

>>17811934 (OP)
>UK was going to become a third world shithole?

Good thing that never happened

>>17811934 (OP)
A lot of Thatcher’s reforms were necessary but the government really should have invested in softening the blow for the communities that were going to be affected by them. Instead there was this lame retarded hardass attitude that was completely destructive to the social fabric

>>17811934 (OP)
>(((globalization)))

>>17811934 (OP)
>Industry bad
>Finance good
So now the UK doesn't even have any steel plants left. It can't make the steel needed to build ships for its navy.

>>17811937
The "social fabric" was basically that everyone had the right to push levers or mine coal at a loss because their parents and grandparents had done so.

>>17811934 (OP)
Yeah, it's so bad that people were living decadent lives from mining coal and operating steel mills. Don't they know a REAL man earns a living by moving numbers around on a ledger in The City?

>>17811946
>Industry pays shit
>finance pays well
You can always go and work on a sweatshop in bangladesh

>>17811936
Chud Anon irl

>>17812080
Give him a knife and a Quran and he’s quintessentially bri’ish

>>17811934 (OP)
>Decadent activities like-
>Rough labor intensive blue collar jobs
???

>>17811950
So invest in the industries so they're not unprofitable?

>>17811959
Or maybe you could just automate production, and pay the workers you still need to be properly trained.

>>17811934 (OP)
>How do you make retards understand that without Thatcher's reforms the UK was going to become a third world shithole?
The UK is becoming a 3rd world shithole
She made everything worse for everyone except the super rich
You are the retard

>>17811934 (OP)
how do you make retards understand that people aren't mad because she "closed the mines" but because she paired putting thousands and thousands and thousands of people out of work with next to zero preparation to help those people back into the workforce.

She just killed the industries, smiled and said "le service economy" and when everyone was thrown into poverty she told them to just simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

It used to be that working class people universally hated her because of this, but British people have become so cucked that they have now convinced themselves that she was actually based because lefties hate her and therefore they should like her.

>>17811934 (OP)
>the UK was going to become a third world shithole?
lol thank god she prevented that from happening haha

>>17811934 (OP)
>was going to become a third world shithole?
I mean isn't it the case in 2025? UK is now the rape capital of europe btw

Reminder that constant austerity policies are why Britain still didn't fucking recover from 2008 and is now getting worse with every bit of infrastructure and every service failing. The raw sewage in the Thames owns the libs or something.

I like that China literally made neoliberalism illegal. They saw the disaster this idiot created and just noped the fuck out of it.

>>17812120
quality of life improving is woke

>>17811934 (OP)
>How do you make retards understand that without Thatcher's reforms the UK was going to become a third world shithole?
Well it did become a third world shithole so fat load of good that did.

>>17812113
It's not even that. It's the fact that her bet on service industries over manufacturing turned out to be a loser. On her own terms she was a failure. Forget the humanitarian aspect, she was an economic disaster. Even if a domestic industry is inefficient it is still better to support that industry than to send the money abroad. Otherwise you end up selling your country to fund your imports - the net effect is you are no longer sovereign.

>>17812113
This is bullshit, scousers and cockneys just wanted to keep doing exactly what they had been doing before. They didn't give a shit about any preparation or anything like that. Unions didn't give a fuck about training, they wanted to keep their power and money and would have never compromised, that's why Thatcher did what she did.

She is based because without her nobody would have had the balls to confront the unions that were turning the UK into a third world shithole

>>17812154
>Nooo we are getting in debt not because we spend way more than we have, its because we don't have enough smoking chimneys producing pins and needles!!
Economic illiteracy will destroy every single developed country sadly

>>17811934 (OP)
It's funny because nobody mentions what was happening in the UK *before* Thatcher. The country was literally falling to pieces. The lady took a broken egg, glued it back together and turned it into a chicken.
>but unemployment increased
This is a natural consequence of fighting the astronomical inflation Labour left. The bomb was planted the moment Attlee won the election and went full fucking Hugo Chavez.

Trying to have a discussion about Thatcher in the modern culture war era is futile. Either right wing grifters tell you she was good and you believe it or left wing grifters tell you she was bad and you believe it.

The fact is the British economy WAS in complete stagnation. The Unions WERE overly powerful (they routinely shut down the entire economy for days over minor labor disputes) but equally that Thatcher's policies, even putting all morality aside, were retarded. She had the option of investing in Coal mining and Steel forging to make Britain the workshop of the world again, instead she simply privatized them, they closed due to unprofitability, and the economy became shifting monopoly money around. Britain became and has stayed a nation with no actual product or tangible good. It's just vast tracks of economically impoverished areas artificially boosted to an average standard of living by fake money being shifted around in London.

So literally everyone is right, the left wing grifters and the right wing grifters. Maggie was a retarded cunt who destroyed the British industry and the industry was a wreck that needed investment, not destruction.
Every problem is a nail when you have a sledgehammer.

>>17811934 (OP)
Question: Why didn't the British government just transfer ownership of the mines to the miner's unions? If the mines were unprofitable, from the perspective of the government they would not be losing anything and still divesting themselves of the mines, but it would also have better optics and give the miners a chance to make the mines work. And same for the mills and shipyards and so on.

>>17812124
China had a labor reservoir of 500 million underemployed peasants it could draw on to fill its factories for pennies on the dollar. The UK would still be a manufacturing superpower if it had the same.

Anons do realise that the parents/grandparents of the browns that ended up forming grooming gangs were imported from Pakistan to fill labour shortages in based and trad textile factories lol

>>17812170
>>Nooo we are getting in debt not because we spend way more than we have
NTA but that's kind of the point of Keynesian economics, it's better to accrue debt than it is to have a lapse in economic stimulus

>>17812196
>just give shit away
They were still assets in their own rights, even if they were losing money they could be sold for money, as they were.

>>17812188
The UK literally had bread lines and blackouts in the 70s, but if you listen to labour everything was perfect and Thatcher started to make changes because she was evil...

>>17812170
Another 10 years of spending cuts will fix this says the retard standing in rubble of 50 years of austerity

>>17812196
The UK had been exploiting its coal reserves on an industrial scale for 100 years. Keeping coal mining sufficiently competitive with the rest of the world required massive capital investment that even the miners unions didn't have the funds for (short of inflicting austerity on themselves).

>>17812198
China also has around 4 million homeless people which is more than literally every developed country

>>17811934 (OP)
>Without thatchers reforms Uk was going to become third world
Oh no! The mayor of London would be Muslim? Thank god thatcher prevented that

>>17812208
That's horseshit because Germany was doing exactly the same and has profitable coal to this day.
The British government was, is, and always will be averse to actually fucking investing in infrastructure and then acts fucking dumbfounded when it turns into a pile of shit. Literally every other first world country understands you need to invest money into things to keep them profitable but Britain has this African tier mindset that they can completely neglect things and they'll somehow function just fine.

>>17812196
Fiscally conservative governments usually try that but unions reject it because they know they can't survive without taxpayers dollars.

>>17812204
If we print more colored paper and give it away we're gonna be rich!!!

>>17812200
Keynes only supported deficit spending during recessions as a "cheat code" to inject money into the economy. He argued for austerity and surpluses in times of economic growth so that the government could be ready to dip into reserves and debt when needed. Nothing like the permanentl unconditional deficit spending with ever increasing debt that is the modern status quo in many countries.

>>17812208
Right but at that point its not the government's problem anymore. If the mines close, then that was going to happen anyway so it doesnt matter, but at least it proves the unions wrong and the government right that the mines are unprofitable.

>>17812223
>do the same thing for 50 years
>double, triple, quadruple down on it
>its not working and the economy is in shambles
>we got to keep doing it though because [vague seething]
Weird how countries with good infrastructure and strong public services prosper. Did no one tell them that government is bad?

>>17812218
>There are literally retards that truly believe first world advanced countries should dedicate themselves to mining fucking coal, and that they will be successful doing that
Public education has been the worst thing to happen to the western world...

>>17812218
Vgh if only we had one of these in England...

>>17812234
>Stay on a diet and eating healthy
>Still slightly overweight
>See!! Diet is not working!!! You should start eating bacon cheeseburgers every single meal because your diet doesn't work!!!

People like this is why countries end up like Venezuela

>>17812235
Doesn't even have to be coal, I'm just making the point that any industry can be profitable if it's invested into. If you invest nothing, like Britain does with everything then of course it's not going to be profitable. You can't magic money out of nowhere.

>>17812218
>Germany was doing exactly the same and has profitable coal to this day.
Forgetting that Germany had Adenauer and Erhard who supported free market, competitive coal industries and never nationalized coal into an abomination like the UK did. Germany got to skip the pre-Thatcher mess.

>>17812244
No retard you can't be profitable when you're competing with bangladeshi sweatshops while paying western salaries, no matter how much you invest

>>17812237
You have these instead!

>>17812241
>reeee we need to double down, it will work soon i promise
>there's no mechanism through it could, but it just will, ok?
mental illness

>>17812244
>any industry can be profitable if it's invested into
No, it can't, if the industry isn't viable you're just burning money through subsidies. Case in point: the Indian Freight Equalization policy.

>>17812252
>Lets not look at the actual causes why income disparity between age groups is so big in the UK, thats not needed, what we need to do is this insanely retarded thing that I want because reasons

>>17812263
>insanely retarded thing of having an industrial policy and not doubling down on failed neoliberal babble for another 50 years as everything crumbles to dust
Not sure about you, but I had enough of "managed decline" and cucking to "investors"

>>17812248
>>17812255
Then the onus becomes on investing in education rather than equipment.
Imagine if you will a scenario where everyone is funneled into a free university degree in robotics and they become mechanics for the machines that make clothes automatically.
Do you still think a horde of Indonesian children can make more clothes than a production line?

>>17812268
>He thinks politicians and leftists bureaucrats will give you a functional industrial policy in a country with first world costs
Why are stupid people always the loudest?

>>17812270
Liberal women don't want to study robotics, they want to study gender studies and post colonial literature

>>17812270
No major disagreements from me, investing in education is good, I'm just against industrial policy. I don't even mind welfare. I just want unions and protectionists to fuck off with their rent-seeking.

>>17812268
>Literally thinks giving money and power to create an industrial policy to people that wants to include a diversity official, a gender equality official, hire workers according to quotas, etc will end well

>>17812279
That's another issue, personally I think the government should at least make STEM subjects free (if not even pay people to get them) and all the fake bullshit degrees should have a heavy mark up. If people want to pay for a degree in gender studies then let them. It can be a tax on being retarded.
>>17812284
I don't think the coal mines should have been kept open, but I think turning literal millions of eager employed workers into unemployed people who not only suffer but also don't contribute to the economy at all was incredibly negligent, unnecessary, and an economic miscalculation.
I don't like the moralfagging about Thatcher about taking milk off kids and shit, but the way the entire working age male cohort were not utilized was objectively retarded and if not for the tribalistic nature of politics would be accepted as objectively the wrong move.

>>17812297
Sadly you're a nobody and the people really pulling the strings in the left don't give a shit about what you think and will you any opportunity they have to create tens of thousands of DEI jobs to give to their college friends. If it was up to them they would cut funding to stem and give all to gender studies.

AND THEY'RE THE LEFT NOT YOU

>>17812170
Yes, retard that's how it works. Governments creates debt to settle payments at the BIS.

Leftists are pro trade protectionism till drumf does it, then they’re free market libertarians.

>>17812237
As opposed to sending the money to Qatar and Saudi Arabia so they can buy up every profitable UK asset, and bleed even more money out of us?

>>17812237
What is that?

>>17812170
>>Nooo we are getting in debt not because we spend way more than we have, its because we don't have enough smoking chimneys producing pins and needles!!
What do you think determines what "we have" to spend if not factories producing pins and needles and all the other shit we need? Look at the tax receipts paid by German industry and imagine how they would fare without it. Imbecile.

>>17812392
Strip mining machine

>>17812400
I can only imagine politicians and bureaucrats friends with gender degrees rubbing their hands at all the jewish daycare jobs they will be able to create for their college friends thanks to these useful idiots

>>17811959
so you trust sweatshop workers in bangladesh to make all your military hardware?

>>17811934 (OP)
uk is already a third world shithole, so what exactly did she do to benefit the uk?

>>17812419
>You're still slightly overweight, so what exactly did that diet do to benefit you?
>>17812415
You mean the $250 drones that are dominating the combat fields today? Yes, no problem.

If the ideology that followed resulted in pakistani rape gang of what use was that ideology?

>>17812297
>>17812308
>retards don't understand why education is free
The premise that college is funded based on rentability is false; it's funded on the idea of each person being able to seek their own passion can contribute to society.

>>17811934 (OP)
She gutted the NHS afaik and poorly managed the integration of ex-industrial workers. Given the current state of infrastructure levels in the UK, it shouldn't be a surprise that her policies weren't great (even though coal industries and such shouldn't be ran at a deficit)

>>17812458
>it's funded on the idea of each person being able to seek their own passion can contribute to society
Lmao retards really buy whatever bullshit they sell to them. No, free education exists to support an "intellectual" elite that has absolutely nothing to contribute to society and needs lots of people that support a huge government and millions of bullshit jobs they can give to their friends.

>>17812485
If I wanted to be surrounded by ignorant retards I would move to some nig nog country.

>>17812505
You will be surrounded by women with gender equality degrees and millions of somalis that they push in. I'd love to have so many useful idiots like you though, that really is some power...

>>17812513
Completely different matter. Women should be segregated and only educated in household and child rearing skills.

>>17812529
Some day you'll have to accept that you're their useful idiot pushing for things that will only benefit them and they will spit in your face while they create millions of dei government agencies.

>>17811934 (OP)
The rot in UK politics has been present since at least the Napoleonic wars, pair that with the very absurd class system that you guys have a serious complex about admitting the existence of, and you get the dead empire we see today.

Peak china has already past it's time to revive domestic manufacturing.

>>17812560
You can revive domestic manufacturing, but with robots no with people. But that also could only happen because people like Thatcher destroyed the unions that think that manufacturing jobs should be like daycares subsidized by the government. Thanks again Maggie!

>>17811934 (OP)
and then the uk became a third world shithole anyway ft. 1,000 millionaires that all immediately moved to america

>>17812560
So it's time for peak Indonesia. Or peak India. Or peak Bangladesh. Or peak Nigeria.
The first world will never run out of shitholes to manufacture cheap goods for them.

>>17811934 (OP)
>The UK enters into an era of economic stagnation and rot
>capital strike has cucked entire industries into oblivion and no work is getting done
>Thatcher is elected
>she makes the line go up by selling off public assets and making working conditions shittier to appease investors
>the economy is permanently fucked and never recovers
>housing market is fucked, no more social housing
>north sea oil discovered, all the revenues siphoned off to tax havens
>britain has been in perepetual austerity ever since
>all the shit that got privatized is collapsing and government pays insane amounts of subsidies to keep stuff like rail, water and electric grid afloat (they were making a profit before privatisation)

Yeah... It's truly a mystery why Thatcher is hated
The only people in favor of this were already very wealthy and profited, or bought up council homes and became landlords

I've read all entries in this thread and people surprisingly make good points, but to me it seems like this guy has the best handle on it:
>>17812813
ultimately the uk is in a worse that it's peers, which is kind of expected since it is a very crowded island with not a lot of resources, a mediocre if not bad potential for agriculture and it has to pay for an oversized military(navy) and its elite.

the collapse of the country could have led to something new, perhaps something better, but said neoliberal elites chose the alternative of flooding the country with impossible to integrate migrants, all the while the boomers cheered on like a bunch of retarded clapping seals because they got their benefits, which they could now spend on vacations in mallorca and tenerife.

a tale as old as time. elite overproduction and the fucking over of the younger generation. importing a highly energetic, highly aggresive foreign population could have been averted this time, but the elited decided to go for the societal collapse trifecta in order to prolong their hold over the politics and the economy of the cuntree

>>17812998
I love how innocent and naive most people are. They always seem to think that even doing the most retarded things possible something magical will happen and everything is going to be fine. That's how countries en up like Venezuela or Cuba. But you can't get blood from a stone, ingenuous uneducated people will always support whoever tells them the nicest sounding fairy tale even if their ideas are pants on head retarded, because they just can't tell, ignorance works like that.

Don’t bother.

Normies think the economy is a household budget or business

Economists understand the economy is a living breathing ecosystem with feedback loops, complex interdependencies, and unintended consequences like trade offs, incentives, equilibrium, and market failures.

>>17812095
Dumping tax dollars into a mud pie factory won’t make people buy mud pies

>>17813054
ignorance sprinkled over self-serving instincts. I recently watched a debate between a young-ish guy who was for segregation and stricter laws in the kingdom (all in all he was articulate and made sense, even if he was a bit biased), and a host of 3 old liberal boomers (55-70 years of age mostly) who argued that essentially the modern multicultural project is in fact a dream come true, and that the tensions in society are overblown and other shit like that.

all the time that I watched it I could only imagine them imagining their big fat pension chekcs, and how they're going to buy more land and real estate with them in the souf and in spain, and how they're going to live their golden years on the sunny golf courses of marbella.

truly sickening.

for what it's worth the younger generation is plenty retarded in itself, and that's not even counting the immigrant, but the liberal boomer "elite" is absolutely devious. they should know better, but they have a huge blindspot when it comes to their comforts. what's more than that, they feel they've earned them and that they deserve them.

>>17812529
So you want to be a 3rd world country?
Because that’s how it works in Pakistan

Women stay indoors all day

Undereducating women is harmful

>>17812436
>You mean the $250 drones that are dominating the combat fields today? Yes, no problem.
I don't see Iran using its tiny drones to stop billion dollar American stealth bombers bombing their nuclear sites with million dollar penetrating bombs

>>17813099
Bibi's cock penetrated Trump's anus better than those bombs penetrated Fordow.

>>17813139
>Seething third worlder buck broken by American military superiority

>>17812711
Birth rates are dropping faster than expected even in Africa
https://www.mercatornet.com/to_the_surprise_of_demographers_african_fertility_is_falling

>>17813063
Of course they don't care about immigration if they live in gated communities where they don't have to interact with them, it's very easy to be pro immigration when you don't carry the costs.

>>17812400
>What do you think determines what "we have" to spend if not factories producing pins and needles and all the other shit we need?
The primary sector (agriculture), secondary sector (manufacturing), and tertiary sector (services) all contribute. Economies start off agrarian, go through an industrialization phase (with manufacturing being around 30-60% of GDP), then develop into service-based economies. Even within manufacturing, an increasing part of the value-added comes from embedded services rather than from the physical making of the product.

Within that, standard sector allocation applies. Shifting resources from lower productivity/lower growth sectors to higher productivity/higher growth sectors produces a substantial chunk of early economic growth.

Sure, one can prop up noncompetitive or obsolete industries, but that is de facto a subsidy that depends upon the health of the rest of the economy. If that itself becomes troubled, then the entire system becomes unstable (see the late Soviet Union).

>>17813148
shame all those weapons didn't stop you from being enslaved by jews lol lmao

>>17811934 (OP)
Thatcher's reforms didn't go nearly far enough. She should've repealed the Town and Country Planning Act 1947, the Race Relations Act 1976, and the the Trade Union Act 1871; cut the green belts, halved the civil service, nuked Argentina, normalised relations with South Africa and Rhodesia, and cut regulations for construction of all sorts.