Why was he gay?

>>17819471 (OP)
Its Rome, everyone was gay

>>17819471 (OP)
Because who was going to stop him

>>17819471 (OP)
Because why the fuck would you want to deal with women. Rationally speaking being gay is the best choice.

>>17819531
>

>>17819471 (OP)
Bi

Hadrian was a huge pagan larper and customs and engaged in pagan religious practices and catholics don't like this so they call him a faggot which was picked up by modern faggots as proof of something

>>17819564
How was he a pagan larper if paganism was the standard back then?

>>17819593
I just say that because history is from a christian perspective, they try not to talk about his pagan religion as much as possible

>>17819471 (OP)
The modern notion of gay would make no sense to the people in antiquity. You were either the top (still socially unacceptable in most if not all societies of antiquity, but not that severe, kind of like a cheating scandal in modern politics), or a bottom (same level of severity as rape/pedophilia level scandal in modern society, immediate loss of reputation).

Another thing is that a relationship in the modern sense between two grown men is straight up unheard of in antiquity, there was no concept of two men marrying or living with each other as a couple, that was a completely foreign concept to them.

The only semi-acceptable form of homosexuality in antiquity was pederasty, meaning an adult mentor type figure fucking his pre-pubescent/teenage mentee.

>>17819611
top and bottom weren't a thing either, you were a faggot or you weren't. Kind of like how you're either gay or you're not. Being an open homosexual was definitely a crime and only the top aristocrats could get way with being effeminate while disgusting all those around them

superior LGBT morals we're finally catching up to

>>17819618
>Being an open homosexual was definitely a crime
No it wasn't

>>17819633
yeah, both rome and athens had laws against homosexuality

>>17819649
Athens did not have laws against homosexuality. Aeschines and Plutarch explicitly say Solon even gave pederasty a special status.

>>17819655
pederasty was a teacher student relationship and had nothing to do with sex, it was illegal to be a homosexual

>>17819471 (OP)
Unironically the most based faggot of all time

>>17819618
>you were a faggot or you weren't.
I never said otherwise. What I meant was that it differed from today's sexual paradigm where you're either gay or you're not, with being top/bottom making little to no difference in how people perceive you. The ones that are all for gay shit will accept you either way and the more conservative/religious will call you a faggot either way.

But in antiquity being a top, while considered scandalous, was still far from the career destroying, and probably life ending accusation of being a bottom.

>>17819633
Yes it was, I'm not sure why this myth that societies in antiquity had rampant homosexuality came from, if you actually look at the historical evidence it was a crime that was almost always punishable by death

>>17819661
Athens didn't, Rome sort of did but more in the sense of it bringing shame (i.e some noble taking it up the bum from a slave and shaming the family), otherwise they didnt care and certainly weren't as autistic about it as christians.

>>17819661
>>17819672
Please read the ancient Greeks before posting

>>17819672
>it differed from today's sexual paradigm
It didn't, fags are trying desperately to blur what homosexual even means in relation to classic civilization

it's pathetic, they have nothing to stand on

when you go back in time people don't get more sexually esoteric than modern gender freaks, they get LESS. These guys probably beat homosexuals to death in the street

What did Socrates mean by this?

>>17819704
something your aids ridden brain latches onto apparently

>>17819716
What’s the non-faggot interpretation

>>17819719
do you know? you don't because fags are basically just reddit theists from 15 yers ago that copy paste "gotchas" without actually knowing the context

>>17819724
What do you think the context is? What’s a non-sexual interpretation of “catching fire” upon seeing inside a young boy’s cloak and seeing his chest and then comparing beautiful boys to lions?

>>17819724
*reddit atheists

You faggots are basically this guy only you put wieners in your poop chute

>>17819752
Imagine in a couple years when everybody will look at the people that chemically castrated themselves as fat misguided losers

>>17819471 (OP)
To be fair, when you're the most powerful man in the world, conventional sex quickly becomes boring. You'll inevitably want to have sex with a feminine man, especially when it was more "normal" back then.

>>17819471 (OP)
love wins :)

>>17819611
>or a bottom (same level of severity as rape/pedophilia level scandal in modern society, immediate loss of reputation)
But Antinous was deified and worshiped.

>>17820774
Wow paganism is so great why did Christians destroy this aryan tradition.

>>17820774
>fags turning fatherly love gay
Have you no sense of decency, sir?

>>17820777
Pagans deified the male beloved of an emperor, Christians deify some whore that was fucked by a Roman soldier and lied about it, and her delusional rabbi son whose followers were retarded teenagers. Is it really that much better?

>>17820791
No they don't

>>17820788
When the love is so fatherly, you bring some random boy who you aren't related to all the way back to Rome from Anatolia because you found him beautiful, and commission a bunch of statues of him which emphasize his beauty, and all contemporary texts describe this boy as being your lover, and texts which explicitly state he was your catamite appear within your living memory.

>>17820805
Yes it was very common for pagan aristocrats to literally kidnap boys and raise them as their adopted sons

>>17820808
And sodomize them

>>17820814
there's not a single reference to that, anywhere, in all greek historiography.

>>17820808
And then commission a bunch of nude statues of them emphasizing their beauty, right?

>>17820818
This is the part where you say that you're a pedophile and you're projecting your pedophilia onto the artist of something that makes you horny

Let's just get this out of the way.

>>17820822
Why do you keep posting this debunkum? Xenophon is quoting the opinion of the legendary lawmaker of Sparta, Lycurgus. In the same text he goes on to say that many Greeks disagree with Lycurgus' views, and that pederasty is legal in most Greek cities. Alexander is saying this in response to being offered to purchase sex slaves, Plutarch describes Alexander as a boy-lover who had a relationship with the boy eunuch Bagoas in the same book. Aristophanes was a playwright, this is not his opinion, but a quote by a character he wrote in a play. The Aesop quote is from a comedic fable, and only makes fun of passive homosexuals:
>When Zeus fashioned man he gave him certain inclinations, but he forgot about shame. Not knowing how to introduce her, he ordered her to enter through the rectum. Shame baulked at this and was highly indignant. Finally, she said to Zeus: ‘All right! I’ll go in, but on the condition that Eros doesn’t come in the same way; if he does, I will leave immediately.’ Ever since then, all homosexuals are without shame.

Aeschines' objection to Timarchus is that he prostituted himself, not that he was a homosexual. Aeschines explicitly states that he is a pederast in the same speech, and that he is not against pederasty, but prostitution. From Against Timarchus:
>And just here I understand he is going to carry the war into my territory, and ask me if I am not ashamed on my own part, after having made a nuisance of myself in the gymnasia and having been many times a lover, now to be bringing the practice into reproach and danger. And finally—so I am told—in an attempt to raise a laugh and start silly talk among you, he says he is going to exhibit all the erotic poems I have ever addressed to one person or another, and he promises to call witnesses to certain quarrels and pommellings in which I have been involved in consequence of this habit.

>>17820862
>Now as for me, I neither find fault with love that is honorable, nor do I say that those who surpass in beauty are prostitutes. I do not deny that I myself have been a lover and am a lover to this day, nor do I deny that the jealousies and quarrels that commonly arise from the practice have happened in my case. As to the poems which they say I have composed, some I acknowledge, but as to others I deny that they are of the character that these people will impute to them, for they will tamper with them.

>The distinction which I draw is this: to be in love with those who are beautiful and chaste is the experience of a kind-hearted and generous soul; but to hire for money and to indulge in licentiousness is the act of a man who is wanton and ill-bred. And whereas it is an honor to be the object of a pure love, I declare that he who has played the prostitute by inducement of wages is disgraced. How wide indeed is the distinction between these two acts and how great the difference, I will try to show you in what I shall next say.

>But not to dwell too long on the poets, I will recite to you the names of older and well-known men, and of youths and boys, some of whom have had many lovers because of their beauty, and some of whom, still in their prime, have lovers today, but not one of whom ever came under the same accusations as Timarchus. Again, I will tell over to you in contrast men who have prostituted themselves shamefully and notoriously, in order that by calling these to mind you may place Timarchus where he belongs.

>First I will name those who have lived the life of free and honorable men. You know, fellow citizens, Crito, son of Astyochus, Pericleides of Perithoedae, Polemagenes, Pantaleon, son of Cleagoras, and Timesitheus the runner, men who were the most beautiful, not only among their fellow citizens, but in all Hellas, men who counted many a man of eminent chastity as lover; yet no man ever censured them.

>>17820866
>And again, among the youths and those who are still boys, first, you know the nephew of Iphicrates, the son of Teisias of Rhamnos, of the same name as the defendant. He, beautiful to look upon, is so far from reproach, that the other day at the rural Dionysia when the comedies were being played in Collytus, and when Parmenon the comic actor addressed a certain anapaestic verse to the chorus, in which certain persons were referred to as “big Timarchian prostitutes,” nobody thought of it as aimed at the youth, but, one and all, as meant for you, so unquestioned is your title to the practice. Again, Anticles, the stadium runner, and Pheidias,the brother of Melesias. Although I could name many others, I will stop, lest I seem to be in a way courting their favor by my praise.

>But as to those men who are kindred spirits with Timarchus, for fear of arousing their enmity I will mention only those toward whom I am utterly indifferent. Who of you does not know Diophantes, called “the orphan,” who arrested the foreigner and brought him before the archon, whose associate on the bench was Aristophon of Azenia? For Diophantes accused the foreigner of having cheated him out of four drachmas in connection with this practice, and he cited the laws that command the archon to protect orphans, when he himself had violated the laws that enjoin chastity. Or what Athenian was not indignant at Cephisodorus, called Molon's son, for having ruined his surpassing beauty by a most infamous life? Or Mnesitheus, known as the cook's son? Or many others, whose names I am willing to forget?

>>17820862
Lycurgus sounds based.

>>17820862
Laws concerning the adoption of children by aristocrats is known. You can not bribe a child into your custody with trinkets and treats. You must sell them on the virtue they would gain by being your pupil. The family too.

I wonder if they're not talking about predator aristocrats going around bribing boys into their house with luxury and wealth.

>>17820941
And of course, the ever virtuous Greeks, blamed the child for not having enough wisdom

>>17820815
>In Egypt also he rebuilt the city named henceforth for Antinous. Antinous was from Bithynium, a city of Bithynia, which we also call Claudiopolis; he had been a favourite of the emperor and had died in Egypt, either by falling into the Nile, as Hadrian writes, or, as the truth is, by being offered in sacrifice. For Hadrian, as I have stated, was always very curious and employed divinations and incantations of all kinds. Accordingly, he honoured Antinous, either because of his love for him or because the youth had voluntarily undertaken to die (it being necessary that a life should be surrendered freely for the accomplishment of the ends Hadrian had in view), by building a city on the spot where he had suffered this fate and naming it after him; and he also set up statues, or rather sacred images, of him, practically all over the world. Finally, he declared that he had seen a star which he took to be that of Antinous, and gladly lent an ear to the fictitious tales woven by his associates to the effect that the star had really come into being from the spirit of Antinous and had then appeared for the first time. On this account, then, he became the object of some ridicule, and also because at the death of his sister Paulina he had not immediately paid her any honour
Cassius Dio, Roman History 69.11.2

>During a journey on the Nile he lost Antinous, his favourite, and for this youth he wept like a woman. Concerning this incident there are varying rumours; for some claim that he had devoted himself to death for Hadrian, and others — what both his beauty and Hadrian's sensuality suggest. But however this may be, the Greeks deified him at Hadrian's request, and declared that oracles were given through his agency, but these, it is commonly asserted, were composed by Hadrian himself.
—Historia Augusta, Life of Hadrian 14.5-7

>Antinous too was deified by them; his temple is the newest in Mantineia. He was a great favorite of the Emperor Hadrian. I never saw him in the flesh, but I have seen images and pictures of him.
—Pausanias, Description of Greece 8.9.7

>But as he next introduces the case of the favourite of Adrian (I refer to the accounts regarding the youth Antinous, and the honours paid him by the inhabitants of the city of Antinous in Egypt)... For what is there in common between a life lived among the favourites of Adrian, by one who did not abstain even from unnatural lusts, and that of the venerable Jesus
—Origen, Contra Celsum 35

>Next entered an austere-looking man [ Hadrianus ] with a long beard, an adept in all the arts, but especially music, one who was always gazing at the heavens and prying into hidden things. Silenus when he saw him said, "What do you think of this sophist? Can he be looking here for Antinous? One of you should tell him that the youth is not here, and make him cease from his madness and folly.
—Julian, The Caesars 311

>The deification of Antinous, his medals, his statues, temples, city, oracles, and constellation, are well known, and still dishonor the memory of Hadrian. Yet we may remark, that of the first fifteen emperors, Claudius was the only one whose taste in love was entirely correct.
—Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

>>17819564
Christians were LARPing as Jews, and still do.

Why does ancient faggotry make people seethe and cope so much. Does it really matter that much

>>17820820
We are talking about Mediterraneans here. Yes, to us Northerners it is all faggotry. Nordics killed gays every time we came across them.

>>17820970
>>17820972
>ctrl +f "sex" 0 results found

>>17821009
We dealt with a lot of things with knives and stabbing, adultery, sodomy...

>>17821016
>For what is there in common between a life lived among the favourites of Adrian, by one who did not abstain even from unnatural lusts, and that of the venerable Jesus
>what both his beauty and Hadrian's sensuality suggest

>>17821020
Yeah these guys are calling the rich fat guys throwing huge parties 24/7 with all these "bros" that they essentially kidnapped to be degenerate

>>17819564
Not a pagan larper, but he Greek Weebo or whatever you want to call it.

>>17821028
yeah that, sorry

>>17820994
Jews do the same desu
pic related

>>17819531
>Rationally speaking being gay is the best choice.

>>17821024
And then on the very fringe of this degenerate party culture you had a few bold homosexuals commissioning pottery with men in questionable positions

that would be fine and dandy if gays didn't make fake greek artifacts and try to pass them off as real

>>17821200
Nice headcanon anon. There’s actually about 1,000 Greek vases depicting homosexual scenes that have been discovered. They were for common people too, cheaply produced, not for the aristocracy

>>17821344
>There’s actually about 1,000 Greek vases depicting homosexual scenes that have been discovered
Source?

>>17821358
Andrew Lear, ‘Images of Ancient Greek Pederasty’

>>17821374
Leather apron sisters... not like this

>>17821484
>Leather apron
I still think that guy is in the closet. He has a very homosexual phenotype.