>btw Gaia shat out some big fuckoff monster that almost killed Zeus cause she was mad one time
Why does this myth exist? You're just making your main deity look like a chump for no reason.

>>17825700 (OP)
Very Indo-European? They were just 80 IQ pastoralists. I.e. bad tales
Even anfoids were more intelligent, their mythology wasn't much better.

>>17825713
Indian

>>17825700 (OP)
Apparently Plato hated Homer and the rest of them because they were slandering the gods by depicting them as cruel, capricious, debauched and absurd.
Anyways it seems Gaia was just using Zeus to get rid of Cronos like she used Cronos to get rid of Ouranous and then devised a new servant to get rid of him once he outlived his usefulness. But Zeus won.
Crazy how Typhon is the Megasatan of the myths yet is the only one with a stable marriage

>>17825700 (OP)
>Why does this myth exist?
Isn't it obvious?

>>17825700 (OP)
There's a big difference between killed and almost killed. Almost killed is Tom Cruise, Arnold Schwarzenegger. The fact that Jesus actually dies is a mindblowing act of new-age heroism in a leading man.

>>17825701
>>17825700 (OP)
>Zeus slaying the god of christianity
Based.

>>17825894
>If you kill yourself you win
Nice try kike

>>17825700 (OP)
The concept of a "main deity" is a little anachronistic for Greek paganism. What we today recognize as the Greek pantheon is a product of Greeks trying to unite different gods, stories and elements into one coherent whole. The results are mixed - the general set of characters is the same, the general narratives remain consistent, but individual stories don't necessarily make sense with one another. An example of this would be Zeus against the Fates (Moirai) - in some stories they obey him, in some stories he has to obey them.

I don't know what the idea is behind Typhon, certainly the primordial powers challenging a self-made king is a theme here, but I wouldn't read too much into its implications for Zeus in general.

TLDR: Greek paganism is the Simpsons, some episodes are self-contained

>>17825700 (OP)
>almost

>>17826059
Somebody just wanted Zeus to have some street cred so made up a story about how some monster fool run up on him like a thug so sky daddy had to put him in the ground, literally. He beat his ass under a mountain until the earth glowed like molten iron. Rad as fuck.

>>17825821
>Crazy how Typhon is the Megasatan of the myths yet is the only one with a stable marriage
Considering Greek views of women this isn't crazy at all. Only an incomprehensible monster could find a woman's companionship equitable.

>>17826059
>Greek paganism is the Simpsons, some episodes are self-contained
Like all European paganism actually.

>>17826059
>The concept of a "main deity" is a little anachronistic for Greek paganism.
anachronistic in relation to what, you retard?

it is not said that zeus had monotheistic characteristics or some kind of prime mover, but the use of the autonomous "king of the gods", it is not as if there was no hierarchy for the greek entities. zeus was the "main one". no temple was ever erected in honor of him in all greek history.
>I don't know what the idea is behind Typhon
So read Greek mythology, we already have a lot of assumptions here to worry about. I recommend getting out of bed and trying to read it.

>>17826099
>no temple was ever erected in honor of him in all greek history.
I meant that since the Mycenaean period, there has been no entity with a higher level of homage than him. even in Athens

>>17826099
>anachronistic in relation to what, you retard?
I'm not sure I understand the question. When something is anachronistic it means you're projecting a later an idea onto something that didn't operate with that idea. That Greek pagans who told the story didn't originally think of Zeus as a "main" deity until much later later doesn't require any further relation.

>it is not said that zeus had monotheistic characteristics
I'm aware.
>it is not as if there was no hierarchy for the greek entities
When these myths were being formulated there wasn't. A more or less stable hierarchy later formed, but again, not entirely consistent across different stories.
>read Greek mythology
I did.

>>17826144
You simply don't know what anachronistic means. Again: is saying "principal deity" anachronistic in relation to what or what kind of idea? Since Mesopotamia, there have been "chief" gods of the pentagon, and "principal" is here understood as "most important, most notable," and in this case, in a theological sense. But again, it's not the same as saying that Zeus is some Christian god or a Zoroastrian god.

>>17826181
I suppose I don't, because to me the anachronism was described exactly: stories get told, various stories get consolidated, various characters get consolidated, hierarchy appears, stories get re-told through a hierarchy that wasn't originally there.
>there have been "chief" gods
Absolutely! There just haven't really been such gods in Greek mythology when those stories were first formulated.

>>17825700 (OP)
>The storm god vs the serpent monster
This motif is everywhere. From Scandanavia to Japan everyone believed their storm god fought a giant snake creature.
Norse
>Thor vs Jormungander
Greek
>Zeus vs Typhon
Hittite
>Tarhunna vs Illuyanka
Canaanite
>Ba'al vs Litan
Israelite
>Yahweh vs Leviathan
Egyptian
>Set and Ra vs Apep
Babylonian
>Marduk vs Tiamat
Indian
>Indra vs Vritra
Japanese
>Susanoo vs Yamata no Orochi

>>17826081
lmao

>>17825821
>Plato hated Homer and the rest of them because they were slandering the gods by depicting them as cruel, capricious, debauched and absurd.
That wasn't the reason. Try actually reading the republic. It was because he thought stories like that would make the cattle like guardians of the republic less motivated to fight and die for their autocratic tyrant philosopher king.

>>17826710
I.e. he were proto-atheist

>>17826782
*they*

>>17826107
Poseidon was named more on linear B tablets and had more tributes offered up to him in bronze age Mycenaean times. You are full of shit. Zeus seemed to be competing with Dyonisus in Mycenaean times, with Poseidon and his consort being the highest ranking. Also reminder that Poseidon, Ares, Apollo, Athena, Aphrodite and Artemis all are of non yamnaya/proto Indo European origin.

>>17826897
No. Zeus had more temples and was more honored, he was so honored that even the Macedonians named cities and temples after him.

>>17826953
And zeus were worshipped since Mycenaean times and even before
>Poseidon
IE etymology
>ares
iE etymology
>Apollo
Not necessarily "pre-IE", but had some connections to Anatolia
>athena
was Indo-Europeanized at various levels, which basically became the pallas athena
>artemis
again, why is it pre-IE? the etymology was not said to be pre-IE.
>Aphrodite
I bet you're a Brazilian, but why would Aphrodite be pre-IE? Oh, sure, because she was the goddess of fertility, and such concepts didn't hold much significance among nomadic peoples compared to farmers? It would be a good argument if the name "Aphrodite" had clearly non-IE etymologies. And nothing prevents Aphrodite from having a similar case with Athena. Nothing prevents steppe peoples from having a fertility deity. By the way, post your shitty list with words copied and pasted from desuarchive.org about "pre-IE Greek". Pic, what were the proto-Greek predescorses looked like:

>>17826964
Now, the proto-greeks
40% steppe ancestry, (I got 44% in qpAdm)
)

>>17826965
to start:
poseidon, an IE entity..
Komita, N. (1985). Poseidon the Horse God and the Early Indo-Europeans (Doctoral dissertation, Kanagawa Institute of Technology).
https://kait.repo.nii.ac.jp/record/110/files/kka-009-004.pdf

Going to sleep

>>17826279
Fascinating post anon. Apparently the Iroquois had a myth like this too. Makes you think

>>17825700 (OP)
>Why does this myth exist?
Gods of Thunder fighting serpent monsters is an allegory for the energy of kundalini being activated to initiate spiritual enlightenment, it is also probably about bioelectricity. Kundalini being represented by a monster probably shows the dangers of this phenomenon and the caution needed.

>>17826099
>no temple was ever erected in honor of him in all greek history.
Lolwut

>>17826965
Wow, an outlier. The Mycenaeans didn't bring Yamnaya/IE to Greece, we wuz have been there all along.
>>17826964
To begin with, the Greek and Roman gods had several local variations. So there's X more IE, Y more Anatolian, and Z more Semitic, all from the same god or gods that were syncretized because they were more similar to each other than to others. But the important thing is that the version that most Greek authors choose to represent best is the Anatolian-like.

>Cicero enumerates several versions of Roman deities:

>To begin, then: they who are called theologists say that there are three Jupiters; the first and second of whom were born in Arcadia; one of whom was the son of Aether, and father of Proserpine and Bacchus; the other the son of Caelus, and father of Minerva, who is called the Goddess and inventress of war; the third one born of Saturn in the isle of Crete, where his sepulchre is shown. The sons of Jupiter (Διόσκουροι) also, among the Greeks, have many names; first, the three who at Athens have the title of Anactes: Tritopatreus, Eubuleus, and Dionysus, sons of the most ancient king Jupiter and Proserpine; the next are Castor and Pollux, sons of the third Jupiter and Leda; and, lastly, three others, by some called Alco, Melampus, and Tmolus, sons of Atreus, the son of Pelops

>There are likewise several Vulcans. The first (who had of Minerva that Apollo whom the ancient historians call the tutelary God of Athens) was the son of Coelus; the second, whom the Egyptians call Opas, and whom they looked upon as the protector of Egypt, is the son of Nilus; the third, who is said to have been the master of the forges at Lemnos, was the son of the third Jupiter and of Juno; the fourth, who possessed the islands near Sicily called Vulcaniae, was the son of Menalius. One Mercury had Coelus for his father and Dies for his mother; another, who is said to dwell in a cavern, and is the same as Trophonius, is the son of Valens and Phoronis

>>17827074
>A third, of whom, and of Penelope, Pan was the offspring, is the son of the third Jupiter and Maia. A fourth, whom the Egyptians think it a crime to name, is the son of Nilus. A fifth, whom we call, in their language, Thoth, as with them the first month of the year is called, is he whom the Pheneatae worship, and who is said to have killed Argus, to have fled for it into Egypt, and to have given laws and learning to the Egyptians

>The first of the Aesculapii, the God of Arcadia, who is said to have invented the probe and to have been the first person who taught men to use bandages for wounds, is the son of Apollo. The second, who was killed with thunder, and is said to be buried in Cynosura, is the brother of the second Mercury. The third, who is said to have found out the art of purging the stomach, and of drawing teeth, is the son of Arsippus and Arsinoe; and in Arcadia there is shown his tomb, and the wood which is consecrated to him, near the river Lusium. I have already spoken of the most ancient of the Apollos, who is the son of Vulcan, and tutelary God of Athens. There is another, son of Corybas, and native of Crete, for which island he is said to have contended with Jupiter himself. A third, who came from the regions of the Hyperborei to Delphi, is the son of the third Jupiter and of Latona. A fourth was of Arcadia, whom the Arcadians called Nomio, because they regarded him as their legislator. There are likewise many Dianas. The first, who is thought to be the mother of the winged Cupid, is the daughter of Jupiter and Proserpine. The second, who is more known, is daughter of the third Jupiter and of Latona. The third, whom the Greeks often call by her father's name, is the daughter of Upis and Glauce. There are many also of the Dionysi. The first was the son of Jupiter and Proserpine. The second, who is said to have killed Nysa, was the son of Nilus

>>17825700 (OP)
>You're just making your main deity
Zeus was not necesarilly the Greeks "main deity". The Greeks were NOT Henotheists, they were firmly Polytheistic. Gaia was one of the Titans, Zeus wasn't. Of course she would be depicted as more powerful than Zeus. The Titans were the Primordial, penultimate beings, whereas the Olympian Gods were a tier below them

>>17827075
>The third, who reigned in Asia, and for whom the Sabazia were instituted, was the son of Caprius. The fourth, for whom they celebrate the Orphic festivals, sprung from Jupiter and Luna. The fifth, who is supposed to have instituted the Trieterides, was the son of Nysus and Thyone

>The first Venus, who has a shrine at Elis, was the daughter of Coelus and Dies. The second arose out of the froth of the sea, and became, by Mercury, the mother of the second Cupid. The third, the daughter of Jupiter and Diana, was married to Vulcan, but is said to have had Anteros by Mars. The fourth was a Syrian, born of Tyro, who is called Astarte, and is said to have been married to Adonis. I have already mentioned one Minerva, mother of Apollo. Another, who is worshipped at Sais, a city in Egypt, sprung from Nilus. The third, whom I have also mentioned, was daughter of Jupiter. The fourth, sprung from Jupiter and Coryphe, the daughter of the Ocean; the Arcadians call her Coria, and make her the inventress of chariots. A fifth, whom they paint with wings at her heels, was daughter of Pallas, and is said to have killed her father for endeavoring to violate her chastity. The first Cupid is said to be the son of Mercury and the first Diana; the second, of Mercury and the second Venus; the third, who is the same as Anteros, of Mars and the third Venus. All these opinions arise from old stories that were spread in Greece; the belief in which, Balbus, you well know, ought to be stopped, lest religion should suffer. But you Stoics, so far from refuting them, even give them authority by the mysterious sense which you pretend to find in them. Can you, then, think, after this plain refutation, that there is need to employ more subtle reasonings? But to return from this digression

>>17827077
>The Titans were the Primordial, penultimate beings, whereas the Olympian Gods were a tier below them
Also have to say that Gaia was partially responsible for the creation of the Titans, so she is a tier even higher than them

>>17827074
>>17827075
>>17827079
>Despite the popularity of Greek culture in the West, Greek culture is generally seen as having little importance in Indo-European comparative studies due to the strong influence of pre-Greek and Near Eastern cultures, which outweighs what little Indo-European material there is can be extracted from it

>Y DNA studies show that the Greeks carry some of the oldest Y haplogroups in Europe, in particular the J2 haplogroup (and other J subhaplogroups) and the E haplogroups, which are genetic markers denoting the earliest Neolithic farmers derived from the Near East.

>Minoan, any member of a non-Indo-European people who flourished (c. 3000–c. 1100 BC) on the island of Crete during the Bronze Age

>A 2017 study of the genetic origins of the Minoans showed a strong similarity to modern Greeks, but with some further dilution of early Neolithic ancestry. (meaning modern Greeks are actually more European compared to the ancients). A comparative study of DNA haplogroups of modern Cretan men showed that a male founder group, from Anatolia and the Levant, is shared with the Greeks. (meaning that the Greeks are, at least paternally, derived from those Anatolian/Levantine people who settled in Minoa)

>Gods presumed to be of pre-Greek or Near Eastern origin

>Ἀπόλλων, Apóllōn, Apollo;
>Ἄρης , Ares, Ares;
>Ἄρτεμις, Artemis, Artemis;
>Ἀσκληπιός, Asklēpiós, Asclepius;
>Ἀθήνη, Athḗnē, Athena;
>Ἄτλας, Átlās, Atlas;
>Διόνῡσος , Diónȳsos
>Ποσειδῶν, Poseidôn, Poseidon;
>Δημήτηρ, Dēmḗtēr, Demeter

>inb4 Muh IE Etymology
Of course the Mycenaeans would call these gods words because they spoke a Proto-Greek/IE (Mycenaean Greek) language, damn it. Fucking Krishna (which literally means Black) has an IE etymology, and you really think he's a deity of Indo-Aryan origin because of that? Correlation does not imply causation.

>>17827106
>From Proto-Indo-Iranian *kr̥šnás (“black”), from Proto-Indo-European *kr̥snós (“black”).

>From *kers- + *-nós or *ker-s- + *-nós. Compare Proto-Celtic *dusnos (“dark, brown”) (see also *dubus (“black”) and *dubnos (“deep; world”))

>Possibly related words:

>Lithuanian kéršas (“with black/white spots/patches”), kéršė (“pied cow”) and kiršlỹs (“grayling”)

>Swedish harr (“grayling”) < Proto-
>Germanic *harzuz. See also Proto-Finnic *harjus (“grayling”)

>Bulgarian чep (čer, “black”) < *чepх (*čerh) like вeт (vet) < вeтх (veth), if not shortened from чepeн (čeren, “black”)

>In 3+2 anthroponyms: Thracian *kersas.

>River name: Hungarian Körös (“Criș”), Fekete-körös (“Crișul Negru”)

>Probably unrelated to Proto-Turkic *kara (“black”) and other similar words

>Krishna is represented in the Indian traditions in many ways, but with some common features. His iconography typically depicts him with black, dark, or blue skin, like Vishnu. But ancient and medieval reliefs and stone-based arts depict him in the natural color of the material out of which he is formed, both in India and in southeast Asia. In some texts, his skin is poetically described as the color of Jambul (Jamun, a purple-colored fruit)

>>17825700 (OP)
About Typhon:

>Karl Kerenyi notes that the oldest tales mentioned two dragons that may have been intentionally conflated: a female dragon named Delphyne (Δελφύνη; cf. δελφύς, "womb") and a male serpent, Typhon (Τυφῶν; from τύφειν, "to smoke"), Zeus's adversary in the Titanomachy, whom the narrators mistook for Python. Python was the good daemon (ἀγαθὸς δαίμων) of the temple, as he appears in Minoan religion, but he was represented as a dragon, as is often the case in Northern European folklore, as well as in the East

>Agathos Daimon (Ancient Greek: ἀγαθός δαίμων, agathós daímōn, lit.'noble spirit') originally was a lesser deity (daemon) of classical ancient Greek religion and Graeco-Egyptian religion. In his original Greek form, he served as a household god, to whom, along with Zeus Soter, libations were made after a meal. In later Ptolemaic antiquity he took on two partially distinct roles; one as the Agathos Daimon a prominent serpentine civic god, who served as the special protector of Alexandria. The other as a genus of serpentine household gods, the Agathoi Daimones, individual protectors of the homes in which they were worshipped

>In Egypt, a similar deity was Shai, who was known as the god of fate. In the syncretic atmosphere of late Antiquity, Agathodaemons could be bound up with Egyptian bringers of security and good fortune: a gem carved with magic emblems bears the images of Serapis with crocodile, sun-lion and Osiris mummy surrounded by the lion-headed snake Chnum–Agathodaemon–Aion, with Harpocrates on the reverse

>Agathos Daimon was also identified with Zeus Meilichios, to whom pigs were sacrificed in holocausts. Meilichios was invoked in an Orphic Hymn to Zeus as his Daimon. This represents an old serpentine aspect of Zeus associated with fortune

>>17827138
>The word Shai was also the Egyptian word for pig, in the Hellenic period, Shai was sometimes depicted as a serpent-headed pig, known to Egyptologists as the Shai animal

>This is Kneph, the good genius, or Agatho dæmon, the creative spirit and the type of the sun, of the Egyptians, one of the characteristics of whom was the serpent, probably the uræus or basilisk, the sign of power. According to Plutarch and Diodorus the name of the Egyptian Zeus signified spirit (πνεῦμα), which of course can only apply to Kneph. Champollion derives it from the Egyptian root nf (Coptic nef) to breathe. The word Chnubis differs from Kneph only in the accidental admission of the inherent vowel v instead of e, and of b in- stead of p, as spelled in the Gnostic monuments of the Basilidans, it would sound like Chnumis (Bunsen)

>A common inscription around this figure, or on the back of the stone, is the Hebrew-Greek CEMEC ΕΙΛAM, the eternal sun, and also another legend, ΑΝΑΘΑΝΑΒΡΑ, "Thou art our father." Another frequent type is Seth, the Egyptian Typhon or evil deity, the ass-headed god of the Semitic tribes, which gave rise to the calumny against the Christians that they worshipped the head of an ass

>As Mr. Sharp remarks, Basilides, the founder of the Egyptian sect of Christian Gnostics, being puzzled, as so many inquirers have been, with the origin of evil, and with the difficulty of believing that the Giver of all Good was himself the author of sin, he made a second god of the Devil, or the personification of evil, consequently we find the same Typhon, or god of evil, also figured as Nubi, the lord of the world, who is represented under the form of a griffin. On some of the coins of Hadrian we see also exhibited the Gnostic spirit of that age, in the representation of the antagonism of good and evil, as figured in the opposition of the serpent of good (Horhat, the Agatho dæmon), and the serpent of evil (Apophis/Typhon)

>>17827146
>The figure which is most frequently found on these stones is that which has given its name to this entire class. The god Abraxas, or, as it reads on the gems, ΑΒΡΑΣΑΞ, the letters of which, taken numerically, according to the Greek alphabet, give, when summed up, the number 365 (A=1, B=2, P=100, Α=1, Σ=200, A=1, Ξ=60), being the number of days in the sun's annual course. He is supposed to be the sun god, or the supreme deity, whose physical representative the sun is. He is figured with the head of a cock, sacred to the sun, with a human body, clad in a cuirass, terminating in serpents instead of legs

>By the side of the god, besides the word Abraxas, is also engraved the name Iao, which would seem, as well as the names Adonai, Sabaoth, frequently engraved on these gems, to be other titles of the sun god. Abraxas, the supreme deity or good spirit, and Seth, or the god of evil, are the representatives of the two antagonistic principles in nature, according to the Gnostic doctrines. In the Gnostic creed, the author of evil was regarded as the creator of the world, and was considered as the being with whom men have chiefly to do, either in this world or in the next. According to the Gnostic view, matter was essentially evil, consequently the supreme deity, or author of good, could not be its author

>Whence the famous talisman or charm "Abracadabra" has been derived

>The grafito found in a room of the Palatine Hill, evidently a προσκυνημα, οr aet of worship, by some Gnostic Christian, represents the crucified Seth, the father of Judæus and Palestinus, the ass god of the Semitic tribes, for, as Mr. Sharpe observes, the creator of the world, the author of evil, in the Gnostic creed, was looked upon by the Gnostics as the god of the Jews, and the author of the Mosaic law

>>17825700 (OP)
>btw Adama shat out some big fuckoff monster (Leviathan) that almost killed Baal-Yahweh cause she was mad one time

>>17825700 (OP)
>>17825704
Join the dots. Blood memory.

>>17827147
>Throughout the three thousand years of Egyptian civilization, Set took many forms according to various legends and stories about his activities. The most common of these was an enigmatic creature referred to by Egyptologists as the "Set animal," a beast not identified with any known animal, although it could be seen as a resembling an aardvark, an African wild dog, a donkey, a hyena, a jackal, a pig, an antelope, a giraffe, an okapi, a saluki, or a fennec fox. The animal has a downward curving snout; long ears with squared-off ends; a thin, forked tail with sprouted fur tufts in an inverted arrow shape; and a slender canine body. Sometimes, Set is depicted as a human with the distinctive head

>Some early Egyptologists proposed that it was a stylised representation of the giraffe, owing to the large flat-topped "horns" which correspond to a giraffe's ossicones. The Egyptians themselves, however used distinct depictions for the giraffe and the Set animal. During the Late Period, Set was depicted as a donkey or as a man wearing a donkey's-head mask

>The Dendera B zodiac ceiling depicts the Aryt decan as a male pig. This is derived from a story in the Coffin Texts involving Horus and Set. After Horus' eye is injured, Ra tells him to cover the eye and look at a black pig. Doing so causes Horus' good eye to also become injured because Set had transformed himself into a pig and projected the wound. For this reason, Ra declared that pigs are detestable and all his followers should consider the animal an abomination

>Egyptologist Bernard Arquier believes this is a reference to the New Moon, when the sky would have been darkest and Horus was absent

>>17827224
>During the Second Intermediate Period (1650–1550 BCE), a group of Near Eastern peoples, known as the Hyksos (literally, "rulers of foreign lands") gained control of Lower Egypt, and ruled the Nile Delta, from Avaris. They chose Set, originally Upper Egypt's chief god, the god of foreigners and the god they found most similar to their own chief god, Baal Hadad, as their patron. Set then became worshiped as the chief god once again. The Hyksos King Apophis is recorded as worshiping Set exclusively, as described in the following passage

>"King Apophis chose for his Lord the god Seth. He did not worship any other deity in the whole land except Seth." —The Quarrel of Apophis and Seqenenre, Papyrus Sallier I, 1.2–3 (British Museum No. 10185)

>Josephus, and most of the writers of antiquity, associated the Hyksos with the Jews. Quoting from Manetho's Aegyptiaca, Josephus states that when the Hyksos were expelled from Egypt, they founded Jerusalem (Contra Apion I.90). It is unclear if this is original to Manetho or Josephus's own addition, as Manetho does not mention "Jews" or "Hebrews" in his preserved account of the expulsion. Josephus's account of Manetho connects the expulsion of the Hyksos to another event two hundred years later, in which a group of lepers led by the priest Osarseph were expelled from Egypt to the abandoned Avaris. There they ally with the Hyksos and rule over Egypt for thirteen years before being driven out, during which time they oppress the Egyptians and destroy their temples. After the expulsion, Osarseph changes his name to Moses (Contra Apion I.227-250)

>>17825700 (OP)
>Muh religion is all about power scaling
Indo-European deities were forces of nature or reality personified, it's why they often come across as cruel or ruthless. The ocean doesn't care that you have a wife waiting for you when you get home, a storm might kill you all the same and Gaia is the personification of nature in its wildest and potentially cruelest form and Typhon the dangers that lurk within. At the end of the day an ancient Greek might be more impressed by lighting and thunder but they're more likely to die from a wolf, bear, shark, lion, boar, poison plant, poison mushroom, or venomous snake or spider.

>>17826964
Aphrodite is just a Hellenized Ishtar. Athena might have connections to the Canaanite goddess Anat, but iirc there isn't much solid evidence for that beyond the obvious similarities.

>>17827074
>haplogroup
I knew you were that Brazilian.
You're refuted in every thread, haha.
By the way, the J2b M241 branch with the dispersal of late PIE lineages in the west (Albanian, Greek, Armenian) via the J2b L283 branch (Yamnaya). So yes, it's still an IE lineage, hehe.
the rest of your green wall text is useless for what we are discussing. Proto-Greeks were logkas>>17826965
And they ancestors here>>17826964
Btfo again, spammer
Even L283 moved into the central and western Balkans between 3000-2500 BCE. Likely connected with Late Vucedol Culture due to high frequency of ancient Cetina Culture samples. Also found in ancient Mycenaeans (1600 BCE). Illyrian, Albanian, Greek, Armenian.

>>17827392
Athena is of pre-IE origin according to several authors. Basically, its etymology and origin come from "Ati," meaning "mother" and the name of a Hurrian goddess.
Supposedly, Athena was associated with the serpent goddess, but nothing prevents her from being Minoan. In any case, the rest of the pantheon, like Poseidon, are of IE origin and have IE etymology. That poster is a retard who doesn't know what he's talking about and copies and pastes his garbage like an imbecile.
but Athena was Indo-Europeanized
>Aphrodite
As I said in the other post, Aphrodite being "pre-IE" is basically due to the fact that fertility goddesses aren't venerated as much, or at least not as frequently, as steppe peoples, but this is still quite vague. Aphrodite was never depicted with wings like Ishtar.
Aphrodite is the daughter of the thunder/sky god Zeus and the oracular goddess Dione.
Ishtar is the daughter of the moon god Sin. They're not exactly alike.

>>17827250
>According to Manetho, Moses is an Egyptian, priest of Heliopolis. Strabo also says that Moses was an Egyptian priest; Apion says he is from Heliopolis, but does not say he is a priest; and Chaeremon says that he and Joseph are sacred scribes. This name attributed to Moses, Osarseph, appears only in Manetho, and only in this text, in all ancient literature. Perhaps Osarseph is an Egyptian form of Joseph, in Hebrew Yosef, in which the letters Jo (of Jahweh) are substituted for Osar (Osiris)

>Mnaseas is the first writer to mention a Jewish cult of an donkey/ass's head. Later, in the 1st century AD, Apion and Damocritus also do so. It seems that this story is born in Hellenistic Egypt. The donkey is an animal linked to Typhon-Seth, the enemy of Osiris. Seth is the god of the Hyksos (and, according to Manetho, Jews and Hyksos are the same...). The word Iao (of Iahweh) is, moreover, similar to the Egyptian word for ass (ⲓⲁⲱ, iaō), which certainly gives rise to the legend of the cult of an ass's head

>Set's negative aspects were emphasized during this period. Set was the killer of Osiris, having hacked Osiris' body into pieces and dispersed it so that he could not be resurrected. The Greeks would later associate Set with Typhon and Yahweh, a monstrous and evil force of raging nature (being the three of them depicted as donkey-like creatures, classifying their worshippers as onolatrists)

>>17827896
>The Egyptian god Set-Typhon was sometimes depicted with a donkey head and he has also been more explicitly associated with the Jewish god. For example, we have the following passage from Plutarch:

>"Those who say that Typhon fled from the battle on an ass for seven days, and having been saved produced sons, Hierosolymus and Judeaus, are at this point clearly dragging Jewish issues into the story." (Plutarch, De Iside et Osiride 363C-D)

>Seleucid Antiochus IV Epiphanes saw in Yahweh the "Semitic Typhon" and Judaism as a demonic cult whose purpose was to destroy the cult of the Gods and plunge Humanity into darkness, so he tried to destroy it and reconvert the Jerusalem temple into a center of worship for Zeus

>Antiochus issued decrees forbidding many traditional Jewish practices and began a campaign of persecution against devout Jews

>Swine were strictly unclean to Jews, but Diodorus wrote, Antiochus "sacrificed a great swine at the image of Moses, and at the altar of God that stood in the outward court, and sprinkled them with the blood of the sacrifice

>He commanded likewise that the books, by which they were taught to hate all other nations, should be sprinkled with the broth made of the swine's flesh, he also prohibited circumcision and castration (being considered by the Greeks as a senseless attack on one's own body), and human sacrifices (an allegation of which the Jews were accused since their stay in Egypt)

>Lastly he forced the high priest and the other Jews to eat swine's flesh"

>>17827915
>In some Gnostic writings, Sabaoth (/ˈsæbeJˌɒθ, ˈsæbəˌoʊθ, səˈbeJˌoʊθ/) is one of the sons of Ialdabaoth. According to Hypostasis of the Archons and On the Origin of the World, Sabaoth dethrones his father Ialdabaoth. In both accounts, Sabaoth repents, when he hears the voice of Sophia, condemns his father and his mother (matter) and after that is enthroned by Sophia in the seventh heaven. Some Church Fathers report on the other hand, that Gnostics identified Sabaoth with Ialdabaoth himself

>The Borborites taught that there were eight heavens, each under a separate archon. In the seventh reigned a figure variously called Yaldabaoth or Sabaoth, creator of heaven and earth, the God of the Jews, represented by some Borborites under the form of an ass or a hog; hence the Jewish prohibition of swine's flesh

https://archive.today/20151013103634/http://www.masseiana.org/panarion_bk1.htm%23First
>Some say Sabaoth has the face of an ass; others, the face of a pig. This, they say, is why is why he forbade the Jews to eat pork. He is the maker of heaven, earth, the heavens after him, and his own angels

>The archon who holds this world captive is shaped like a dragon. He swallows souls that are not in the know, and returns them to the world through his phallus, here to be implanted in pigs and other animals, and brought up again through them

>Those of them who are called Phibionites offer their shameful sacrifices of fornication, which I have already mentioned here, in 365 names which they have invented themselves as names of supposed archons, making fools of their female partners and saying, 'Have sex with me, so that I may offer you to the archon.'

>>17825700 (OP)
It's an admixture between two widespread myths. The first is the storm god slaying the monstrous serpent, which the Greeks inherited from their fellow Indo-Europeans. The second is the family (generally the patriarch, but not always) of an ousted divinity raising up a monster to oppose the the ruling son that had deposed them.

In most tellings of the myth, Zeus effortlessly pummels Typhon, but is unable to kill him.

>>17828086
Forgot to mention that the latter myth originates from the Near East.

Curious how Delphyne, the wet-nurse who raised Typhon is the same kind of snake monster as Echidna, Typhons wife...

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>>17826897
People are obsessed with making every god worshipped by the Greeks, Romans, Norse, etc., pre-Indo-European hold-overs.
What Gods do you fuckers even think the Indo-Europeans had?

>>17827077
>>17827080
This misunderstands how Indo-European mythology worked.
Successive generations were more commonly more powerful than their fathers.
You can think of it as a division between being the God that starts something vs one that maintains it forever.
This is most easily seen in Roman religion. Where Janus is the God of Beginnings and the start of things, and is often considered a primordial deity of a type and was very important even into the late Roman period. While Jupiter is of a later generation, but is the more powerful deity that upholds order and stability in the cosmos. One starts the ball rolling, the other keeps it rolling regardless of what comes in the path.
This is where you get myths like Orphic Dionysus being the even greater successor to Zeus. Or stories about Zeus trying to devour Metis to prevent the birth of his too powerful child.

>>17827153
meds

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>>17828141
Isn't Lamia from Greek mythology as well? Pretty sure it's another woman who got fucked and/or fucked over by Zeus again and was turned into a half snake monster over it.

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>>17829164
This is especially interesting when you compare it to Christianity, which essentially solves this revolutionary cycle. The spiritual order is not established (and maintained) by revolutions and sons ruling over their fathers, but by the Son emptying himself to obey the Father and the Father sharing everything with the Son once and for all.

>>17825821
>>17826081
It actually makes perfect sense. Why do women purposefully spam love letters en masse to serial killers?

>>17830341
This mid Japanese woman became a huge fetish and meme because she stabbed a man she was in love with.
Men would be just as bad as women, if there were more woman serial killers. Instead like 99% of serial killers are men, so the fetish can only work for women and gay men. Straight dudes with a hybristophilia fetish have to make do with fiction.

>>17830231
What?

>>17830547
I'm a hybristophile, I like Brenda Spencer

>>17830727
Squizo.

This is all demonic "mythology". Christ is King. Pagan gods are demons.

>>17826087
It's not, retarded jew.

>>17831543
>pagan gods are demons
is that why jews used to throw their first borns into an iron bull for YHWH

>>17831543
Go back to /bant/, namefag.

>>17832177

Never was on /bant/, fag. Never will be.

>>17831543
YHWH does not exist and Jesus Christ is a son of a bitch.

>>17825713
>Indo-European
Myth

>>17833222
Cope.

>>17831543
Even popes loved Greek mythology

>>17833222
That's correct we are talking about Indo-European mythology

>>17826279
Explain why stop holding out

>>17827250
>>17827896
>Moses and Joseph literally existed and Exodus really happened with a few minor changes
why doesn't the popular discourse reflect this?

>>17833853

.

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>>17827153
holy shit

>>17825700 (OP)
Chaoskampf motif, the kingly storm god fights the serpent monster who threatens the order of the gods

Zeus vs Typhon
Tarhunna vs Iluyanka
Ba'al vs Litan
Yahweh vs Leviathan
Marduk vs Tiamat
Seth and Re vs Apep
Indra vs Vritra

.

Sneed.

>>17826081
Top zozzle

Sneed.

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>>17826013
Skyfather vs Earthmother is an entirely intra-PIE mythologic trope. Christianity is simply the semitic mutt offshoot of the Anatolian PIE mythos, introduced into Canaan by the "Sea people" invasion. The Sea People invasion were the Luwian league taking revenge on the rest of the mediterranean for not aiding them when the Hittites/Hyksos topppled and oppressed them.

>>17842618
Luwians are only thought be have been 1 tribe of sea raiders. The Sardinians are another. Sicilians another. Greeks another. Probably more than one group of Greeks. It's probable that the Luwians who are mentioned as Sea Raiders were allied to the Greeks, since Mycenaean-Greek material culture and it's successor language, Arcado-Cypriot are found in the region ascribed to as the homeplace of the Lukka (i think, anyways).

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>>17826992
>2025
>Not worshiping the the concept of thunder to protect against the great serpent
You gonna get SWALLOWED

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>>17844059

>>17826964
>>17826965
>>17827794
The Ancient Greeks were only 9% J2b. The Minoans were J2a, E1b1b1a, G2, I2, R1b. Almost exclusively EEF with low-levels of WHG. While Mycenaeans were J2a, E1b1ba, G1, I2, R1b (downstream from Minoans), J2b, R1a, I2 (downstream from Steppe Herders and mainland Greece). This cultural shift increased IE and WHG admixture.

Logkas were literally two random whores in a cave who had nothing do to with Greek Civilization, they are an Early Bronze Age population and they weren't Central-North European either.

Distance to: GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log04
0.03417883 Greek_Thessaly
0.03682935 Greek_Macedonia
0.03808333 Italian_Northeast
0.03809233 Albanian
0.03817021 Italian_Piedmont
0.03825502 Gagauz
0.03873748 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03979048 Italian_Veneto
0.03986080 Swiss_Italian
0.04023782 Bulgarian
0.04044998 Macedonian
0.04079064 Romanian
0.04083018 Rumelia_East
0.04124563 Italian_Lombardy
0.04180854 Italian_Bergamo
0.04200219 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04268138 Italian_Liguria
0.04335435 Italian_Tuscany
0.04673074 French_Provence
0.04673585 Italian_Marche
0.04732186 Greek_Peloponnese
0.04756008 Montenegrin
0.04779804 Serbian
0.04898149 Italian_Umbria
0.05075929 Italian_Aosta_Valley

Distance to: GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
0.02431119 Greek_Thessaly
0.02471738 Italian_Tuscany
0.02568348 Italian_Marche
0.02571492 Italian_Piedmont
0.02771451 Italian_Lombardy
0.02834099 French_Corsica
0.02861037 Albanian
0.02861698 Italian_Umbria
0.02922166 Italian_Liguria
0.03042203 Italian_Lazio
0.03135567 Greek_Macedonia
0.03201528 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03208233 Italian_Bergamo
0.03333828 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03339197 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03381538 Swiss_Italian
0.03444402 Italian_Molise
0.03588748 Italian_Veneto
0.03697060 Italian_Apulia
0.03813834 Rumelia_East
0.03846480 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03990854 Greek_Izmir
0.04061149 Greek_Laconia
0.04095838 Italian_Basilicata
0.04195290 Sicilian_West