I am an Ebionite Christian. Ama.

>>17825926 (OP)
>Ebionite
>Christian
ok, trinity denier.

>>17825930
Deuteronomy 6:4

>>17825926 (OP)
Ebionites went extinct over a thousand years ago...

>>17825926 (OP)
It's admirable, OP, but why bother? Don't you think Jesus would've prevented the truth from falling away? You are closer to the Muslims now than the Christians. Do you observe dietary laws?Observe the Sabbath? Ebionites are very different from Trinitarians and even their canon was different, if they even had one.

>>17825952
There has always been a subset of Jewish believers throughout history. In the 11th century, Cardinal Humbert of the Roman Catholic Church wrote about Sabbath observing Christians (https://detectingdesign.com/wp/2017/04/20/christians-and-the-sabbath/#Cardinal_Humbert_1015-1061_AD)

>>17825926 (OP)
I have two questions:
1.Are you looking forward to an eternity in Hell?
2. What happened in your life that made you decide to become an EPIC BEARD faggot loser?

>>17825976
>He's created a website for his schizophrenia now
OH MY SIDES

>>17825989
>schizophrenia
Good job, you just slandered the elect. Those flames just got hotter. Tick tock.

>>17825970
>but why bother?
Because the truth matters.
>Don't you think Jesus would've prevented the truth from falling away?
There was never a complete apostasy though. Adonai has always kept a remnant unto himself, both apart from the Gentiles (Catholics) and the Pharisees (Rabbinic Jews).
>You are closer to the Muslims now than the Christians.
Islam has many many admirable qualities to it. I respect Muhammad. I believe God used Islam to lead gentiles to the true message of the Gospel of the Messiah. Nevertheless, Muhammad was sent to the gentiles only. He was not sent to the Jewish people. I do not regard Muhammad as infallible either because some of his revelations contain errors. For example, Muhammad taught that Jesus was born from a virgin like Catholics. He also forbade the keeping of the Sabbath, again similar to the Catholics. He likewise accepted the parts of the Pentateuch which were corrupted by the Pharisees.
>Do you observe dietary laws?
I am a vegetarian which reflects the original plan Adonai had for the human race (Genesis 1:29). The prophets John the Dipper and Jesus were also vegetarians.
>Observe the Sabbath?
Yes, absolutely.
>Ebionites are very different from Trinitarians and even their canon was different, if they even had one.
I know. I do not accept the modern canons of either Rabbinic Judaism or Catholicism.

>>17825994
>the truth matters.
Not to you. You decided long ago that you have nothing but contempt for the truth of God's word. Tick tock!

>>17825972
And do you descend from them or did you just read the Wikipedia article on Ebionites and thought it sounded nice?

>>17826023
>And do you descend from them or did you just read the Wikipedia article on Ebionites and thought it sounded nice?
It's an epic beard fag. What do you think?

>>17826023
Yes I have a Jewish father (I do not accept the Rabbinic claim that Jewishness is matrilineal, the Karaites are correct that it is patrilineal and this is supported by the Torah). I became a Messianic Jew for a little while until I realized they're just Baptists larping as Jews. :/ I believe that gentiles can convert to Ebionite Christianity though. To do this they must be circumcised.

>>17826036
Hey loser, you skipped a few questions: >>17825976

>>17825926 (OP)
Do you consider that the OT is partially falsified like they did?

>>17826036
So neither of your parents are Ebionites, meaning you're a larper who only learned about them from the Internet.

>>17825926 (OP)
>I have religious trauma from being forced to wake up early on Sundays
>I have a contrarian mentality and everyone is always wrong but me
>I still don't want to end up in hell
>...
>I GOT IT!

>I'll LARP as this dead sect of heretics without any real insight on their theology to stick it to both Christians and Jews
Did I land in the ball park?

>>17826047
I accept only the uncorrupted parts of the Pentateuch as scripture with regards to the Hebrew canon. So yes. I also accept most of the Gospel of Matthew as scripture (though it too has corrupted parts e.g. the virgin birth story), I accept the fragments of the Gospel of the Hebrews as scripture, and I also accept the Clementine Homilies as scripture. While I do not believe the Gospel of Barnabas is scripture I do believe it is a spiritually edifying work for gentiles even though it contains some errors and is of dubious origin. Furthermore I believe there are many other lost scriptures, such as the Ascent of James and the fuller version of the Gospel of the Hebrews.

>>17826053
Both of my parents were atheists. My father abandoned his Judaism long ago and idk the religious history of my own mother desu. I discovered religion again through the internet, yes. But through much diligence and research, as a Jewish believer in Jesus the Messiah, I have concluded Ebionitism is the most correct form of Judaism and Christianity on earth. I currently belong to a Karaite community. I do not openly profess my faith in Jesus as the Messiah however Karaites are in general more open to Jesus than Rabbinics and many consider him a tzadik (basically a Jewish saint sorta).

>>17826067
>Judaism
>and Christianity
just Christianity
karaite or not they're mutually exclusive

>>17826073
Gentile Christianity is mutually exclusive to Ebionitism, correct. But so is Rabbinic Judaism. The community of Jews closest to the truth are the Karaites. I hope one day they will accept the Gospel of the Messiah and become Christians. I would like to say Messianic Jews are closest to the truth, but they are literally just Evangelicals and they even believe in things like the Trinity doctrine.

>>17826078
believing in Jesus as the son of God is itself mutually exclusive with jewish belief, whether or not they're karaite
Messianic "Jews" are larping Christians and converts from Judaism

>>17826082
>believing in Jesus as the son of God is itself mutually exclusive with jewish belief
Tell that to the first Christians who were all Jews.
>whether or not they're karaite
Yes my fellow Karaites do not accept Jesus as the Messiah generally, but they are much closer to the truth about Jesus Christ than the majority of Jews have ever been. They are in fact closest to the truth about all of Judaism than most Jews have been, at least since the corruptions of the Pharisees entered the religion.

>>17826063
You skipped >>17825976

>>17826086
>Tell that to the first Christians who were all Jews.
see
>and converts from Judaism
which applies here, since they're ethnically jews while being at odds with jewish belief

>>17826067
You skipped >>17825976

>>17826089
Yes I agree that Messianic Jews are heretics. They're are heretic Christians since most of them aren't even ethnic Jews. But even if they were they would also be heretics still for believing the Trinity dogma.

>>17826078
You skipped >>17825976

1) How do you square calling yourself a Christian while denying the Trinity and the Incarnation?
2) How do you justify ignoring Paul’s explicit rejection of works-based righteousness? Are you saying he got it wrong, or do you just toss his epistles out?
3) Your sect died out centuries ago, or at least went underground. Also, the historical record on Ebionites is thin, mostly from hostile sources like the Church Fathers. What’s your evidence for claiming continuity with them? Are you reconstructing from scraps, or is this a modern LARP based on what you think Ebionites believed? If it’s the latter, how’s that different from making it up?

>>17826112
>How do you square calling yourself a Christian while denying the Trinity and the Incarnation?
Christian = "Follower of the Messiah" not "follower of the Trinity".

>How do you justify ignoring Paul’s explicit rejection of works-based righteousness? Are you saying he got it wrong, or do you just toss his epistles out?
Paul was an infidel and none of his writings are even close to being holy. He corrupted the message of Jesus. He was an angry proselyte to Judaism who, because he could not marry the daughter of the High Priest, decided to preach against the Sabbath and against circumcision.

>3) Your sect died out centuries ago, or at least went underground. Also, the historical record on Ebionites is thin, mostly from hostile sources like the Church Fathers. What’s your evidence for claiming continuity with them? Are you reconstructing from scraps, or is this a modern LARP based on what you think Ebionites believed? If it’s the latter, how’s that different from making it up?
See https://paulinemontagna.medium.com/inri-jesus-of-nazareth-the-king-of-the-jews-part-1-1dfa532f1f10 We have evidence of Jewish Christians in the 11th century. There have always been Jewish Christians.

>>17826135
Oops! >>17825976

>>17826135
>Christian = "Follower of the Messiah" not "follower of the Trinity".
Slick redefinition. The apostles and early Church tied “Messiah” to divinity, not just a human king. John 1:1, Philippians 2:6, even pre-Nicaea writings like Ignatius hammer Christ’s Godhead. You’re cherry-picking a title while dodging the substance. Why’s Jesus the Messiah if he’s not divine? What makes him more than a failed revolutionary?

>Paul is le soap opera villain
No source backs this “angry incel” tale. Acts, his epistles, and even secular historians like Josephus paint him as a zealous Pharisee turned apostle, not a scorned lover. Tossing his writings means gutting half the New Testament. Jesus himself warned against law-worship (Mark 7:7-8). How’s Paul the heretic when Christ’s own words lean his way?

>We have evidence of Jewish Christians in the 11th century. There have always been Jewish Christians.
Your Medium link is speculative fluff at best. “Jewish Christians” isn’t Ebionites. The Church Fathers say Ebionites fizzled by the 4th century, and you’ve got nothing but vague claims of “always.” No texts, no communities, no continuity. Sounds like a revivalist LARP. If you’re rebuilding from scraps, what’s stopping you from just inventing a new sect? Why cling to a dead label?

>>17826156
>Slick redefinition
Just like what Nicenes did when they imposed their doctrine on everyone else? No Trinitarianism was not the unanimous view on God pre-Nicaea even among gentiles. The proto-orthodox sect was not dominate until later. Read actual critical scholarship.

>John 1:1, Philippians 2:6
Not scripture.

>Why’s Jesus the Messiah if he’s not divine? What makes him more than a failed revolutionary?
He is divine though. Divine does not mean the same thing as being God. Jesus was adopted as God's Son at his baptism (Matthew 3:17). The Gospel of the Hebrews says:
> And it came to pass when the Lord was come up out of the water, the whole fount of the Holy Spirit descended upon him and rested on him and said to him: My son, in all the prophets was I waiting for you that you should come and I might rest in you. For you are my rest; you are my firstbegotten Son that reigns forever.

He was inhabited by the pre-existent spirit of the Messiah. According to the Gospel of the Hebrews:
>When Christ wished to come upon the earth to men, the good Father called a mighty power in the heavens which was called Michael, and committed Christ to the care thereof. And the power came down into the world and it was called Mary, and Christ was in her womb seven months. Afterwards she gave birth to him, and he increased in stature, and he chose the apostles.

>No source backs this “angry incel”
Epiphanius, one of your very own fathers, cites it (Panarion 30:16:8-9).

> Your Medium link is speculative fluff at best.
There are many sources which support it:
https://biblicalresearchinstitute.com/whatever-became-of-the-nazarenes/

>>17825926 (OP)
What does this mean?

>>17826156
>What makes him more than a failed revolutionary?
Because he came to end the practice of animal sacrifice in the Temple and build a new, spiritual temple, the Kingdom of God, which he inaugurated with his spiritual resurrection. His martyrdom on the cross heralded the end of the Temple system in.

>What does this mean?
It comes from the Hebrew word Ebyonim meaning "poor ones" because the Ebionites are the poor in spirit (Matthew 5:3).

>>17825926 (OP)
Why do you call yourself an Ebionite, are you continuous with them? If not, why not just call yourself a Judaizer?

How is it that you reconcile rejection of Paul and the Gospels with an embracement of Christianity? On what grounds do you embrace Christianity while rejecting it's sources?

On what grounds do you found your rejection of Judaism (Rabbinical, the medieval Karaite movement, etc)?

>>17826188
>>17826198
>Just like what Nicenes did when they imposed their doctrine on everyone else? No Trinitarianism was not the unanimous view on God pre-Nicaea even among gentiles.
Nobody said pre-Nicaea was a monolith, but you’re exaggerating. Ignatius, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus all affirm Christ’s divinity in some form before 200 AD. Nicaea didn’t invent Trinitarianism; it codified what was already dominant. You’re leaning on “critical scholarship” without citing any. Name a primary source pre-Nicaea that backs your adoptionist take as mainstream.

>John and Philippians aren’t scripture because you say so.
That’s convenient. What’s your canon, then? Just Matthew and your apocryphal fanfic?

>He is divine though. Divine does not mean the same thing as being God. Jesus was adopted as God's Son at his baptism.
Adoptionism’s a dead end. Matthew 3:17 doesn’t say Jesus became divine at baptism; it affirms his pre-existing sonship. Your Gospel of the Hebrews quote isn’t canonical, and it’s a late, sketchy text nobody but Ebionites took seriously. Even then, it’s not saying Jesus is just a vessel for a spirit. You’re twisting “divine” into a meaningless buzzword. If he’s not God, he’s just a guy with a fancy title. Why’s that worth dying for?

>Epiphanius, one of your very own fathers, cites it (Panarion 30:16:8-9).
Epiphanius never said Paul was an incel rejected by a priest’s daughter. He mentions a garbled Ebionite slander that Paul was a Gentile convert upset over Jewish law. It’s hearsay, not fact, and Epiphanius mocks it. You’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for dirt. Also, your link’s a Seventh-Day Adventist piece speculating about Nazarenes, not Ebionites. No source you’ve dropped shows Ebionite continuity past the 4th century. You’re still LARPing a dead sect.

cont.

>>17826188
Have fun burning, rodent

>>17826219
>Because he came to end the practice of animal sacrifice in the Temple and build a new, spiritual temple.
Jesus didn’t end animal sacrifice; the Romans did in 70 AD. His death fulfilled the law (Hebrews 10:1-18), which you’d know if you didn’t ditch half the New Testament.

>spiritual resurrection
At this point just admit you’re a Judaizing mystic with a Jesus fetish.

>>17826222
All Judaizing sects have a Jesus fetish. One in Novgorod was started by actual (spanish) Jews. Who knows, maybe it was a scheme of some sort to Noahidize. Though it's more likely a gridt.

>>17826215
>are you continuous with them?
Yes.
>why not just call yourself a Judaizer?
Because that's a derogatory term used by Paul the false apostle.

>On what grounds do you embrace Christianity while rejecting it's sources?
I do accept many of its sources (Gospel of Matthew, Gospel of the Hebrews, Clementine Homilies) I just don't accept Catholic sources. Like the Pharisees did to Judaism, they corrupted the religion.

>>17826215
>On what grounds do you found your rejection of Judaism (Rabbinical, the medieval Karaite movement, etc)?
I reject Rabbinical Judaism because many of its views are contrary to the original Torah. There is a lot of evidence they added to it (just compared all the different versions of it there are like the LXX and the MT), and many parts of it also contradict their teachings. Part of my hermenutic involves showing where the Torah contradicts Rabbinism, and where it does, it stands to reason, is where the more original parts of the Torah can be found when Moses first wrote them. For example, the Torah always traces a persons heritage through their father, but the Rabbis contradict this in their Talmud by saying that lineage comes through the mother. Another example is how Adonai clearly intended humanity for vegetarianism (Genesis 1:29) but then contradicts itself in Genesis 9:3. What is the original then? Well, we know that advocating for such a practice went hand in hand with animal sacrifice since it involved eating the animal (e.g. Leviticus 7:1-25). But clearly the practice of doing this was part of the propaganda of the Davidic monarchy who wanted to promote the Temple cult. There is no mention of a Temple in the Torah anywhere! Not only this but we know of a rival Temple cult, the Samaritans, true Israelites indeed, who rejected the Temple cult of the Davidic monarchy and its latter advocates, the Pharisees. The Samaritans, in turn, made many of their own interpolations into the Torah such as making one of the commandments about worship on Mt. Gerizim. Now I do accept Jerusalem over Samaria, but not for cultic reasons, but for ethnic reasons. Both are legitimate. But Jerusalem is the holy city of the Jews and it was where Christ was martyred on the cross. I fundamentally reject the Temple cult though because, well, Jesus and John the Baptizer did as the Gospel of the Hebrews and the Clementine Homilies show.

>>17826248
Just admit you hate God.

>>17826219
>Nobody said pre-Nicaea was a monolith, but you’re exaggerating.
I can name as many different sects of gentile Christianity in the first century that rejected Trinitarianism as much as you can name your fathers. Also, many of your own fathers rejected the modern Trinity doctrine. Justin Martyr, for example, was a Subordinationist, as was Tertullian.

>What’s your canon, then?
The Gospel of the Hebrews would be the most sacred text, though unfortunately only fragments of it exist. This is followed by the Gospel of Matthew, except for the virgin birth narrative which is an interpolation. Then the Torah, despite the many corruptions found therein. There are also the Clementine Homilies, as well as the Ascent of James (which is unfortunately lost). The Gospel of Barnabas is apocryphal but spiritually useful for gentiles who believe in the one God, namely, my Islamic brothers.

>Your Gospel of the Hebrews quote isn’t canonical, and it’s a late, sketchy text nobody but Ebionites took seriously.
Many of your own fathers took it as authoritative, see: https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/gospelhebrews-mrjames.html
It's well known that there was a Hebrew version of Matthew in antiquity, Papias mentions it (https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/article/was-the-gospel-of-matthew-originally-written-in-hebrew/#:~:text=One%20early%20Christian%20writer%20named,2%20Origen%2C3%20Eusebius%2C4). The Gospel of the Hebrews is the Hebrew version of Matthew's Gospel, while the Gospel of Matthew as it is now in the NT is the Greek version of Matthew's Gospel.

>He mentions a garbled Ebionite slander that Paul was a Gentile convert upset over Jewish law.
Only you say it's slander. Epiphanius may have thought that too. But it could just as easily be seen as evidence for an independent tradition the Ebionites had about Paul, even if the proto-orthodox didn't believe in it.

>>17826215
>the medieval Karaite movement
Karaism is the best form of Judaism. It has some errors in it, at least the modern version, but it is the form of Judaism I personally most subscribe to and it's why I made aliyah to become part of a Karaite community. Have you ever heard of Abu Isa? He is a fascinating example of a Karaite Christian from the middle ages. He is also more proof that there have always been Jewish Christians. I am a Karaite Jewish Christian i.e. an Ebionite.

>>17826260
Tick tock.

OP is basically just admitting he is a Jewish heretic who infiltrated a Karaite synagogue. Lmfao. Common among Karaites though.

>>17826277
I didn't infiltrate anything. Karaites are a diverse bunch, you know?

>>17826281
Lol ok bud. Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure your Karaite rabbi would be ecstatic to hear you think that Jesus is the Jewish messiah.

>>17826293
I never said Karaism was perfect but I do believe it is the least blemished form of Judaism just like Ebionism is the least blemished form of Christianity (actually pure Christianity which directly came from James the Tzadik, brother of Jesus). Many Karaites believe that Jesus was himself a Tzadik. Furthermore they don't believe in the Talmud, they believe in scripture alone, and there have historically been vegetarian movements within Karaism. Look at Abu Isa, whom I consider a Tzadik.

2 kinda unrelated questions
1. What do you think about the Holy Spirit?
2. What do you think about Muhammad in Islam?

>>17826305
>What do you think about the Holy Spirit?
רוח הקודש (Holy Spirit) is an emanation of God's attribute Chokmah (holy Wisdom). She is the Mother of Jesus Christ and she inhabited him beginning at his baptism, making him the Son of God. In one sense she is Adonai, but she is the feminine mode of him, whereas the Father is the masculine mode of him.
>What do you think about Muhammad in Islam?
He was a prophet sent to the gentiles. He is similar to Balaam in the Torah. Like Balaam, he had many great faults, but nevertheless his message about the unity of God (what Muslims call Tawhid) is what Jesus believed in and what Ebionism also believes in. This is the Gospel of the Messiah. He got some details about Jesus wrong though, like claiming he had a virgin birth, and by denying his pre-existence. He also forbade the Sabbath and preached animal sacrifice and many Muslims today continue to participate in animal sacrifice and meat eating. But his message, and the message of Islam, is on the right track and I see Islam as a substitute for gentiles who want to follow the Messiah but who don't want to convert to Judaism as Ebionism requires.

>>17826036
If your father claims Jewish heritage, presumably through the Rabbinical, matrilineal descent, and you do not accept this as valid, how can have any certainty that he (and thereby you) possesses legitimate male descent?

>>17826329
Both my paternal grandparents are fully Jewish.

>>17825926 (OP)
Christianity = Christianity
denominations = not Christianity

>>17827235
Ebionism is not a denomination. It is original Christianity and founded by Jesus and led by James the Just in Jerusalem.

>>17825926 (OP)
Jesus already fulfilled the Mosaic Law of practices with his crucifixion, so the Ebionites were already obsolete by the time they even started. Also, anti-Trinitarianism is the peak of assclownery.

Just stick to modern Christianity, OP. You don't need a "special denomination" to use as a fashion accessory to feel self-important and/or feel closer to God.

>>17827483
Matthew 5:18

Jesus came to restore the Law from that which the Pharisees corrupted. They corrupted the scriptures. As blessed Peter says:

>For the Scriptures have had joined to them many falsehoods against God on this account. The prophet Moses having by the order of God delivered the law, with the explanations, to certain chosen men, some seventy in number, in order that they also might instruct such of the people as chose, after a little the written law had added to it certain falsehoods contrary to the law of God, who made the heaven and the earth, and all things in them; the wicked one having dared to work this for some righteous purpose. And this took place in reason and judgment, that those might be convicted who should dare to listen to the things written against God, and those who, through love towards Him, should not only disbelieve the things spoken against Him, but should not even endure to hear them at all, even if they should happen to be true, judging it much safer to incur danger with respect to religious faith, than to live with an evil conscience on account of blasphemous words.
>Clementine Homilies 2.28

Where would a modern Ebionite even worship? Do you go to a synagogue and just don't talk about believing in Jesus or do you go to a church knowing you disagree with most of their stances?

>>17827654
>For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished
Which was accomplished with his sacrifice on the cross. Ebionites have to reject Paul, because he practically blows apart their whole doctrine, but it was already null when Jesus died.
>>17827683
There's some vague notions of "truth" I'm seeing here, but you would think they would still be offering animal sacrifices for sin. They conveniently chose to forgo that after getting butthurt over the fall of the temple.

>>17827711
>Which was accomplished with his sacrifice on the cross.
I agree with you. Jesus's martyrdom inaugurated the end of animal sacrifice and his resurrection brought the Kingdom of God in a more realized form on earth. He fulfilled the Law, because he was obedient to it even to the point of death. This is why at Passover Jesus blessed bread and wine, because it was an anti-type to the sacrifices at the Temple, it was the offering which Melchizedek had made, and Jesus is our great High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron which had been corrupted and led astray over the centuries and which had not the true Torah. The law of the Gospel is the law of Adonai, it is what Adonai intended for Adam and Eve at the beginning, which he set down in the opening chapters of the Torah, which Moses taught, but which was corrupted over the centuries by the Pharisees and by the Sadducees.
>>17827683
I attend the Shabbat services of the Karaite community I have become familiar with. I also celebrate other festivals with them like Pesach and Yom Kippur. I used to be part of a Messianic community but fell out because they teach the Trinity dogma and did not correctly observe the high holy days.

>>17825926 (OP)
Why do you in kike bullshit that's meant to spirituality enslave you and circumcise your mind?

>>17825926 (OP)
Why do you believe in kike bullshit that's meant to spirituality enslave you and circumcise your mind?

>>17828558
I believe in the doctrine of the True Prophet, Jesus Christ. This was the doctrine related by James and by Peter and by Clement and by Barnabas. This is what I believe in.