Thread 17826861

Explain the rapid rise and collapse of the Hispanoids with the understanding that they did in fact build the empire they destroyed in record time (unlike a say, comparable speedrun by the USSR which was just homeless bums stealing it from the people who actually built it, and then ruining it).

>>17826861 (OP)
>rapid rise
Good ships
>and collapse
Failure to adapt to the Enlightenment

>>17826861 (OP)
>Rapid rise
Nation with a strong destiny and spirit after centuries crusading against the muslims. Good political marriages (Habsburgs).
>Collapse
Christcuckery, corruption, nobility and intellectuals betraying the nation, failure to fend off liberal freemasons. Bad political marriages (Bourbons).

>>17826867
>>17826882

Inflation and war was what ended it.
Spain spent the entire late 16th and 17th century fighting wars all over Europe, mostly against protestants.

>>17826867
>Failure to adapt to the Enlightenment
Spain implemented some of the most advanced englightened ideas in the XVIII century like the price liberalization of grains and cereals.

>>17826895
Now show me their scientists

>Spain got lucky with gold and silver
Luck’s a weak explanation. Spain’s empire was built on calculated moves: Columbus’s voyages, Cortés and Pizarro’s conquests, and a bureaucracy that integrated vast territories under the Crown. The 1492 kickoff wasn’t a dice roll; it was backed by the Catholic Monarchs’ vision to outflank France and expand trade. The gold and silver from the Americas fueled a global economy, not just Spanish coffers. You don't build an empire spanning 13.7 million sq km by the late 1700s with just "luck."

>blew it all on wars
Wars were a drain, sure. But calling it “blowing it” ignores the context. Spain was defending a global empire against rising powers like England, France, and the Dutch, who targeted its trade routes. The Armada’s failure in 1588 wasn’t just bad spending; it was a strategic misstep against a naval rival. Wars weren’t frivolous per se, but the cost of hegemony.

>didn’t build anything lasting
>implying cathedrals, universities, and colonial administration aren’t lasting

>>17826861 (OP)
I think the Reconquista created a highly military focused society that when they eventually did find the new world were able to export its soldiers with their zeal to conquer more land.
As a side not is it me or does the "X award" meme border on "explaining the joke" territory? Like the original "fell for it meme" was pretty funny but now people are now using it to exposition dump with goofy faces. Like wouldn't it be funnier to have a picture of a man throwing a way something and then titling the man as spain and the thing as the empire?

>>17826931
>: Columbus’s voyages, Cortés and Pizarro’s conquests,

These weren't calculated

Colombus wasn't even trying to find a new landmass, Cortes's expedition charter was revoked by Velazquez and Cortes himself was being used and manipulated by local kings and officials as much as he was using them (and he was insanely reliant on their choices and dumb luck), and his own goals were, as implied earlier, him going rogue and doing shit to further his own interests rather then necessarily to further the Crown's interest, certainly not with its planning or consent.

I don't know enough about Pizarro or most other expeditions to comment on how much they were coordinated as a calculated strategy, but Columbus and Cortes's famous successes were certainly not that

>>17826931
>Luck’s a weak explanation. Spain’s empire was built on calculated moves:
Yeah like trying to reach India and going to America instead, very calculated
>You don't build an empire spanning 13.7 million sq km by the late 1700s with just "luck."
They didn't either, most of the land was uninhabited and they didnt actually control it

>>17826940
I might have overstated the precision. My fault.

>Columbus wasn't even trying to find a new landmass
True, but the Crown’s backing wasn’t random. I'd say it’s more like opportunistic adaptation. They funded him after years of lobbying, seeing a chance to outmaneuver Portugal’s eastern trade routes. The Catholic Monarchs were consolidating power post-Reconquista and wanted a geopolitical edge. Columbus’s “discovery” was accidental in outcome, not intent. The follow-up voyages, with settlements and trade posts, show Spain quickly pivoting to exploit the New World.

>Cortés’s expedition charter was revoked by Velázquez
Correct, Cortés went rogue. But calling it uncoordinated misses the bigger picture. The Crown didn’t micromanage every conquistador, but it set up a system (encomiendas, adelantado contracts, etc.) that incentivized private ventures to expand Spanish influence. Cortés’s conquest of the Aztecs was a high-stakes side quest, sure, but it aligned with Spain’s broader goal of territorial and resource acquisition. His success (Tenochtitlán’s fall in 1521) was absorbed into the empire’s framework, with the Crown retroactively sanctioning it.

>Cortés was being used and manipulated by local kings and officials as much as he was using them
True as well, but this wasn’t “dumb luck” though; it was Cortés exploiting divisions, much like Pizarro later did with the Inca. The conquistadors were adept at playing local politics, even if their survival hinged on unpredictable factors. That’s not central planning, but it’s not random either.

cont.

>>17826951
>his own goals were… him going rogue… not with [the Crown’s] planning or consent
Cortés was a glory hound, no question. But the Crown’s system enabled rogues like him. They didn’t need to micromanage; they set up a profit-driven machine where ambitious men like Cortés or Pizarro (who similarly went off-script in Peru) could act, and the Crown would reap the rewards. Pizarro’s conquest of the Inca in 1532 was less chaotic (approved by Charles V, with a small force leveraging Atahualpa’s civil war and smallpox). Spain’s empire grew through these semi-independent actors, not despite them.

>implying Cortés and Columbus were master strategists
Never said they were Clausewitz. The “calculated” bit refers to the Crown’s broader strategy: fund exploration, incentivize conquest, and integrate gains. Columbus’s misadventure and Cortés’s insubordination weren’t scripted, but they fit Spain’s expansionist playbook. The empire’s rapid rise came from harnessing these wildcards, not from top-down orders. The collapse later? That’s where mismanagement and overextension kick in, not the initial conquests. Spain’s chaos was just productive until it wasn’t.

>>17826944
>uninhabited land meme
Not entirely wrong, but Spain didn’t need to micromanage every acre. Their empire was about resource nodes and trade routes, not modern nation-state borders. Overextension and inflation from silver dependence screwed them later, not lack of control early on.

>>17826954
>Not entirely wrong, but Spain didn’t need to micromanage every acre.
Then its pointless bringing up how much land they had when most of it was empty and they didn't control it. The population didn't recover to pre-Columbian levels until the late 19th century.

>>17826861 (OP)
>What went wrong?
Nothing. The Spanish elpire lasted longer than the British one and for all its flaws Spain in 2025 is a far better country than France, Germany or the UK.
You're an obsessed third worlder with a complex of inferiority

>>17826861 (OP)
>the empire they destroyed in record time
Spain was a major power for 3 centuries and the most powerful country for one century and a half. That's one of the longest standing empire.

>>17826940
>Cortes himself was being used and manipulated by local kings and officials as much as he was using them
The whole post is bad but this is is such an insane cope lmao.

>>17827109
>Cortes was being used o algo
>Then why Mexico became part of the Spanish crown? Why did they became christian? Why do they speak Spanish?
>...O algo

>>17826895
This. It was also Iberia that first expelled the Jesuit. But did they nationalize the territories of the Church putting it to good use?

>become obscenely wealthy off pillaging Mexico, Peru and southeast Asia
>spend it all on paying Germans and Italians to kill each other instead of investing it in anything useful

You wouldn't get it

>>17826861 (OP)
>decided to extract as many resources as they could instead of investing in their empire
>use resources to create literal money
>collapse because Spaniards cannot understand economics and that flooding your country with cash is bad

>>17826899
El Huyar isolated Wolfram from the first time, Del Rio discovered Vanadium, Proust postulated his law in Segovia and Spain was the only country that was able to manipulate titanium in all of Europe.
Also Spanish engineers were very respected in all of Europe, Ribas was the most reputable naval officer and engineer in all of Russia, the first steam spinning machine in all of Europe was created in Catalonia and the RN considered Spanish ships superior to the ones produced in Britain.

>>17826861 (OP)
Turned their country and empire into a piggy bank for a German dynasty.

>>17826861 (OP)
The spent their immense colonial fortune on wars and cathedrals instead of improving their economy

>>17827208
>high Inflation for nearly 2 centuries
Jesus, must have sucked to be a Spanish poorfags no wonder so many went to the Americas

>>17826861 (OP)
I would question your definition of success
looking at the entire planet, and at the history of our species, is the iberian peninsula a good place to live today?
do you care about having an empire if you live a comfortable life with easy access to technology, culture, leisure, an enriching social life, ample opportunities to develop yourself academically, professionally, etc.?

>rapid rise
Conquistador mindset early on that seamlessly transitioned into largely autonomous and self-sufficient governing bodies that enabled the efficient extraction of resources. Administration was heavily decentralized, basically feudal, entrusting local deputies to make sound decisions instead of top-down management. Bureaucracy was massive, but everyone knew their place in the civil system. Natives pacified through unintentional mass deaths due to epidemics and a syncretic religion foisted upon the survivors that promoted fealty to one's betters.
The system was convoluted, but it worked flawlessly for over 150 years. 17th century Latin American history is really boring because nothing interesting happened. But boring is good. Boring keeps people alive and fed. Boring keeps the money flowing.
>collapse
The Bourbons.
Dumb and pointless wars in Europe. Reforming a complex system that the new French nobility didn't understand, simply because they wanted it to be more like France. Bureaucracy (which was increasingly staffed with people who had lived their entire lives in the Americas) was sidelined and made irrelevant. Centralization of power because of 'muh enlightenment' broke the system down and led to factionalism and dissent from the Crown. Napoleon laid the finishing blow to the whole rotten system.

>>17826861 (OP)
catholicism is a garbage religion, it promotes the worship of poverty, this is why every protestant country is richer than catholic countries, protestantism promotes individuality and individual success ethics while catholicism promotes collectivist poverty trash

>>17827208
>The Truce of Adrianople in 1547, named after the Ottoman city of Adrianople (present-day Edirne), was signed between Charles V and Suleiman the Magnificent. Through this treaty, Ferdinand I of Austria and Charles V recognized total Ottoman control of Hungary,[1] and even agreed to pay to the Ottomans a yearly tribute of 30,000 gold florins for their Habsburg possessions in northern and western Hungary as a buffer for Vienna.[2][3] The Treaty followed important Ottoman victories in Hungary, such as the siege of Esztergom (1543).
Imagine looting unimaginable wealth from an entire continent and still being raped by ottoman BVLLS

>>17826861 (OP)
The conquest was actually made by the natives
The independence was actually made by the spaniard criollos

>>17827061
>Spain in 2025 is a far better country than France, Germany or the UK.
Yes Pedro, that's why ambitious young Spanish people move to work and live in those countries while the only people who do the reverse are pensioners and holidaymakers who treat the country like a Caribbean island of servile natives.

Their society was too centralized to effectively rule a global empire. While conquistadors had a certain amount of freedom to act on their own initiative, the areas the conquered were quickly integrated into a system of government where they had to defer in all matters to a distant metropole that saw them as nothing more than resource extraction operations. Such a system is naturally inflexible and brittle and sluggish and half blind, especially on such a huge scale as the Spanish empire.

>>17827545
>The independence was actually made by the spaniard criollos
This, the Bourbons tried to centralise the empire and put peninsular Spaniards loyal to the crown in charge over the local white elites, who took the chance to revolt and run things themselves as soon as Napoleon invaded Spain.

>>17827570
This is false kek. Criollos had plenty of positions of power in America, the intendencia system just made them work for the position instead of just getting by default in the cabildo and as they were lazy as fuck they fumed about this reform

>>17827567
>Their society was too centralized to effectively rule a global empire.
Another clueless moron. How was it centralized? If anything local institutions had tol much power and the empire worked like a federation of city states

>>17827563
Spain has a much lower emigration rate than France or the UK. Mind you the UK currently can't build basic infrastructure and has the least efficient administration in all of western Europe and the country only survives due London's massive money laundering industry

>>17827635
>Spain has a much lower emigration rate than France or the UK
Mostly because Spanish youth are lazy and happy to siesta instead of getting a job somewhere functioning (1 in 4 of them are unemployed)

>>17827646
This is coming from a guy that thinks its normal that its goverment spends billions of euros on viability studies while is unable to build basic railroad infrastructure in a country that is flat as a plate

>>17827061
>Spain in 2025 is a far better country than France, Germany or the UK.
Can't find spain in pic related, it means spain is a poor country

>rapid rise
They beheaded the leadership in existing autocratic civilizations in Mexico and Peru, which themselves were relatively newly consolidated. So for peasants, it was going from one dictator to another. The cities, people, and social structures already existed, so they only needed slight modification as opposed to starting from scratch like the British.

>record collapse
I don't think that's right. They held on to most those territories for about 200 years and held Cuba and Puerto Rico for another century after that. That's a better run than France or Britain in the Americas. But it fell apart due to the loss of the mandate of heaven, and an opportunity for the American born elites to control the territories directly instead of the crown. Which went fucking terrible for them, but whatever.

>>17828114
>for about 200 years
Try 300

>>17827243
>German
They were Austrian and Portuguese

>>17827136
Implying reducing the population of Germany is not something extremely useful

>>17828424
Around 75% of Charles V ancestors came from Spain or Portugal

>>17827776
Now do rape and murder rate

>>17827355
It was a war lost by Austrians

>>17827264
Only 300k Spaniards went to the Americas which is nothing considering the size of the continent

>>17826861 (OP)
>You don’t get it! We have to spend all our money to engage in a long death war to keep control of the Netherlands! A people completely different from us culturally and now religiously. And maintain a complex road around France to control it. Which means getting pointlessly involved in Holy Roman politics.
They sound like the United States of the 16th-17th century.

>>17827563
The germcuck can't see the world from something else than an economical perspective it's honestly frightening.

>>17829113
How is brutalky killing hundred of thousands of protestants civillians thus limiting their influence in Europe a bad thing.

>>17829124
>iTT
Perhaps Spain should have embraced the truth of the reformation so God could bless their empire like he did with Great Britain. Then it might’ve lasted longer and had a larger impact on the world.

>>17829134
Spanish empire lasted longer than the British one
2025 Spain is in a much preferable position than Britain
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about

>>17829120
more cervezas for the table, uno por fay-vore

>>17829140
>British Empire (1497-1997)-500 years
>Spanish Empire (1492-1976)-484 years
By what poor rationale did the Spanish empire last longer than the British? And I’m being extremely generous with the Spanish empire. Since it became entirely irrelevant after 1750.

God blessed England after it embraced the reformation with a worldwide empire spanning the globe whose legacy and impact still affect us today(you’re conversing in English btw). The only lasting legacy of the Spanish empire is the mongrel race it created in central and South America.

>>17829188
>And I’m being extremely generous
And you are not generous with the British one you fucking dingus? What empire did Britain have in the 1600's?

>>17829153
Sir, shouldn't you be more worried about that Pakistanman raping your daughter right now?
>>17829188
>British empire 1497
What in the actual fuck is this delulu
Not even reading the rest

>>17829200
>delulu
faggot

>>17826895
Probably why they failed then.

>>17826861 (OP)
The conquistadors came with a plan: Fuck shit up and get rich.
They achieved that plan.
When you say 'what went wrong'; well that wasnt part of the plan.

>>17829200
It's hilarious that the best the anglos can come up with is jokes about unemployment or una cerveza por favor while we can literally joke about their children getting sex trafficked by south asians by the millions. We're not the same.

>>17829204
Britain had no empire before the 18th century, late 16th if we're generous
Btw
>Since it became entirely irrelevant after 1750.
Spain literally achieved its territorial peak after 1750

>>17829224
I meant before the 17th century

>>17829188
>rules the wastes of arctic north america
>rules the wastes of tsetse-ridden africa
>rules the wastes of deserted australia
>rules the wastes of potato-deprived ireland
>look guise how great and expansive our empire is
what actually gave britain power, legitimately, was the soullessness of the industrial revolution

>>17829217
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-03-02/how-the-rape-of-a-13-year-old-in-spain-shed-light-on-abuse-among-at-risk-minors.html

Wouldn't gloat so fast, jorge

>>17829227
>500 years of the vast natural and mineral wealth of central and south america
>greatest achievements to date:
>cocaine
>reggaeton
>para español, oprima dos

>>17829200
>Doesn’t contest Spain’s empire beginning in 1492 with Columbus’s expedition.
>In 1497 England commissions John Cabot to lead an expedition to find the Northwest Passage. Where he reaches Newfoundland.
If you’re not going to contest Spain’s beginning then there’s no reason to contest England’s start date.
>>17829193
>The 1533 Statute in Restraint of Appeals had declared "that this realm of England is an Empire".
>In the 1560s English privateers engaged in slave raiding attacks against Spanish and Portuguese ships in West Africa with the aim of establishing an Atlantic slave trade.
>Later Elizabeth I gave her blessing to further privateering raids against Spanish ports in the Americas and shipping that was returning across the Atlantic, laden with treasure from the New World.
>England carried out its first modern colonisation, referred to as the Munster Plantations, in 16th century Ireland by settling it with English and Welsh Protestant settlers.
>In 1583 Humphrey Gilbert he formally claimed the harbour of the island of Newfoundland
>In 1584 Walter Raleigh founds the colony of Roanoke.

>>17829230
>you're making fun of the most kikeish mercantile empire in history, this means you MUST be a spic shill
how about no, retard

>>17829227
>Ignores the right side of the image.
>Still writing in English.
Can’t point to any achievements of the Spanish empire can you? The only ones I can think of is creating mongrel races and burning money and men in pointless wars in the Netherlands.

>>17829242
>spaniard is embarrased by the consequences of spanish rule
hilarious

>>17829228
One case vs hundreds of thousands like these in the rape capital of europe aka as Britain

>>17829239
Spain acquired colonies shortly after Columbus, Britain did not

>>17829249
>hundreds of thousands of fl*mish and d*tch dead
>pointless

>>17829239
I don't mean retarded declarations, I mean actual overseas holdings. By the way Spain's overseas expansion started in 1402 when they start the colonization of the Canary islands.

>>17829266
>The Mallorca Institute of Social Affairs (IMAS), which is at the center of the scandal, has stated that it is aware of 16 cases of sexual exploitation of minors in its centers in recent years, some of them prior to their arrival into care. The question now is, how many cases are there in the rest of Spain? None of Spain’s autonomous regions make these figures public.
lol cope

Why are britbongs so butthurt against Spain? Is it a coping mechanism for their declining standards and the fact that their empire in terms of relative power was both weaker and lasted less time?

>>17829275
16 cases (likely foreigners too as the article mention) vs hundreds of thousands of native cases

>>17829280
Yes they do. It's also a cope with the comical decline of Britain and the fact that it won't exist in a few decade

>>17829280
You started a whole new thread just to seethe about the bongs >>17829270

camarero mad as fuck lmao

>>17829286
You created this thread as a falseflag

>>17829269
Having colonies is not the definition of an empire. Was Russia an empire only when it colonized Alaska? Or was it before 1740 when they were able to power project in Asia and Europe?
>>>17829274
if you want that to be the definition of empire then the England has had an empire since 1169 when it invaded Ireland. Which would still make England with the longer empire.

>>17829293
Spain projected its power in Italy and elsewhere in europe long before columbus
>>17829293
Spain became an empire when it invaded al andalus then xd

Spain
>3% of GDP balance of payments surplus
>diversified economy with some of the most productive agriculture, touristic and manufacturing complexes in Europe
>GDP growth of 3.5%
>4,200 km of high speed railway
>one of the best systems of public transportations in the world
>one of the best healthcare systems in the world. The NHS literally outsources entire procedures to Spanish private hospitals
The UK
> Stagnant economy for a decade
>2% deficit in the balance of payments
>wealth concentrated in 1 spot, the rest of the country is a shithole
> no manufacturing or agricultural sector to speak off despite having a 50 years head start with the rest of the world in the industrial revolution
> 113 km of high speed train
>the most dysfunctional infrastructure in all of Europe baring Ukraine and Russia
>the most incompetent bureacracy in all of Europe
>goverment ruled by an oligarchy that outsources all decissions to Mckinsey and Bain
I don't know why Brits are like this, they are heading towards being poorer than Poland and their main concern is trying to punch down a country that is performing a lot better than they are

>>17829286
I didn't start any threat
>>17829293
>Ireland
Holy shit the copium

>>17829292
>>17829307
lol the seethe
>>17829304
And yet here you are seething about them to the point you started another thread just to seethe about them

>>17829304
And you didnt even mention the difference in crime statistics which is the point where Spain most clearly outperforms Britain, who recently proudly became the rape capital of europe ahead of Sweden

>>17829307
He started the thread himself to cope about getting demolished here

>>17829317
Why are you seething this much about the bongs bro? Calm down and go for a swim or something

>>17829323
Ok mr falseflag

>>17829307
If Ireland is copium then what is the Canary Islands? Mega copium?

>>17829317
So far I have only seeing pol tier baits and no real historical discussion. Spain was soloing the Dutch, the French, the English and the German protestants for 2 centuries.
The only other countries that have done that in Europe's history are France and Germany and obviously the UK at no point was even capable of projecting power anywhere in Europe outside of financial aid

>>17829327
The Canary islands were actually colonized from scratch, Ireland was still ruled by clansmen that didn't pay any tribute to the king of England deep into the XVII century.
Claiming that the English empire started in 1497 is pure delusion

>>17829327
The Canaries are geographically in Africa and was populated by Moroccans tribesmen who were raped and genocided out of existence. This is the very definition of imperialism.

>>17829336
they weren't moroccan, if they were they wouldn't have lost

>>17829273
>Our Empire is in terminal decline! Nothing will save us!
>At least a few Dutch people are dead.

>>17829339
The Guanche were purer moroccans than most moroccans today
>>17829341
Spain wasn't in terminal decline in the 17th century

>>17829347
Can't have been, if they were they would've taken 100,000 spanish soldiers to bring down (if actual moroccans can beat spaniards 1:6)

>>17829354
You're acting stupid

>>17829331
The English empire began in 1169 now hermano. Anglo-Norman lords controlled most of Ireland for centuries and were subordinate to the Lord of Ireland who was also the English king. England still held control of the Pale after decline due to the plague, famine, and invasion. So what you said is not true. Remember overseas holdings is now the definition of empire according to the geniuses here.

>>17829355
20,000 vs 3,000 says what now

>>17829363
Spain was an empire by the late 15th century for its influence in Europe and America. Stop coping

>>17829363
>Anglo-Norman lords
Why do you add the "anglo" bit? England was a colony of France back then and the elite despised the anglo-briton lower classes that were treated like cattle and they never learned English and spoke French until their defeat in the 100YW

Spain was good at killing stone age Indians. They pretty much sucked at fighing anyone else including North africans lol. They dominated global trade bc they were transporting trillions of gold and had access to unique American food producers like potatoes and squash and many others.

>>17829408
mad how not a single part of this is true lmao
seething sp*Niard

Well for one thing the industrial revolution basically never happened in Spain, and it remained feudal in the 20th century.

>>17829473
Spain was the military hegemon in Europe for well over a century. The Spanish army from Cerignola (1503) to Rocroi (1638) was almost invincible.

>>17829539
He's completely right. He's only exaggerating a bit, by the later stages of the 100YW the English monarchy wasn't really French anymore.

>>17826861 (OP)
The spanish squandered the wealth of their conquests on random wars all over europe which did little to benefit spain or had any lasting conquest. That wealth was spent trying to maintain the Netherlands even though even a retard could see holding Spain could never hold the Netherlands. In addition to constant wars in Italy and The HRE. None of these enriched Spain. Maybe spain could have held only Naples, but they couldn't.

It wouldn't have mattered anyways though, because the Austrian rulers of Spain had no preference for spain, and invested and patronized their Italian and germanic subjects.

Spain was simply a source of manpower and wool.
The british and french used their imperial wealth to invest into their nations, while also having a more robust and innovative culture. The only notable men of science from Iberia are from the Muslim period lmfao.

>>17829670
Posted it again award.

>>17826861 (OP)
Skill at first to lay the groundwork. They beat the Muslims and united their own land. Skilled ministers and political moves gave them an empire in Europe.
Luck led to their golden age. Columbus stumbled upon a vast and rich land that was ripe for the taking. If the New World were just a few weeks sail further west, Columbus would have gone home a failure.
Hubris led to their fall. They could have used their infinite money cheat to transform their homeland into the birthplace of the Renaissance. Instead, they took on the mantle of chief inquisitors for the Church and wasted everything fighting the Protestants.

>>17829691
Posted it again award.

Welson Gomez, the reason you live in a shithole is not because of Spanish rule but because your genes are trash.

>>17829575
Spain got industrialized in the XIX century. A good chunk of English iron came from Bilbao's iron ores and processing facilities

>>17826861 (OP)
They relied on mercenaries and expensive guns instead of growing fomestic industries.

Its like in rome total war when you grow bankruot by buying too many mercenaries

>>17830550
Posted it again award.
Can't write award.

>>17826940
Pizarro's conquest of the Inca Empire was also a bit of a fluke. Lucky was he that it was literally unthinkable for hil to kidnap the emperor.
And desu if it wasn't for the Plagues the Spaniards would have been out of continental Urban America by 1570. At least out of Peru anyway. Maybe they'd be able to work out a client style deal in Mexico. Or something.

>>17827109
He was. Xicontencatl, the Puerepecha, etc, just didn't account 2/3rds of their population would die off within 50 years and their culture irreversably destroyed.

>>17830595
Then again who could see that coming.

>>17830595
One side was manipulating the other but one side was led by 90 IQ men and the other by 130 IQ men. So virtually only one side was manipulating the other.

>>17829280
Most likely chilangos vs chicanos

>>17829676
>>17829711
100% not mad (but regularly monitoring the thread because he's not butthurt) award

>>17830657
I'm just refreshing /his/ and the thread keep coming up with the same retarded post over and over.
Posted it again award.

>immediate response
Mad as fuck lmao

>>17830674
Indirect reply award.

>>17826861 (OP)
Th chronic inflation and very high taxation seem to be the major factors for why they failed to build up any capital and industry.
And tariffs on foreign wheat blocked the development of other, potentially more profitable crops, due to high wheat costs (caused by the tariffs).

And without agriculture and industry, you're going nowhere. Or downhill...

>>17827220
Damn, was Spain close to being the homeland and starting point of the industrial revolution?

>>17827214
>collapse because Spaniards cannot understand economics
Which is tragic, because the School of Salamanca were some of the first ones in Europe to discover the connection between money supply and price inflation.

If only the Spanish kings had more than 2 braincells and some knack for economics and forward thinking.

>>17830733
Posted it again award
>1820
Not even the right time period
>>17830771
It's a troll post
The school of Salamanca were ahead of their time so it's expected that their measures wouldn't have been popular in their lifetime.

>>17827776
>>17829106
Spain is alsmost on par with the UK right now.
Add the weather - it's a much better place to live.

>>17830742
It had a more advanced manufacturing sector than most of continental Europe. Wellington whenever he ordered the destruction of factories during his campaign

>>17829188
>God blessed England after it embraced the reformation
Yeah I'm sure God was thrilled when you were murdering catholic priests on the streets.

>>17827264
Wages went up too. Infation is when all prices go up not just the "bad ones"

>>17829313
>the difference in crime statistics which is the point where Spain most clearly outperforms Britain
Hard to believe that, post data.

>>17830733
Spain exported wheat to the rest of Europe until the 1840's when the population started to grow exponentially like in the rest of Europe.
Besides the places that grew wheat in Spain could at best grow grapes as a cash crop, things like citruses that became Spain's 5th largest export by the late XIX century can only grow in like in 4 spots of the country.
The main issue with the Spanish industrial policy in the XIX century outside of the internal struggles was some very bad decissions regarding protectionism in which Asturian coal mining was protected and that coal was of very bad quality due its low purity

>>17830785
The UK is literally the worst country in all of western Europe. Shit wages, shit currency, shit goverment and shit policies.
The countries only redeemable thing is London which is top notch for white collar jobs, but even then the cost of living is criminal there unless you are a 1% top earner

>>17830828
>whatabout

>>17829841
Was not aware of that. What was the land tenure situation in the late 19th century to pre-civil war times? Was it still just a few elite families that owned all the land, and 99% of the people working it were barefoot peasants who merely leased the land and were essentially peons? Or did people generally own the land they worked, even if they were still on the whole rarely prosperous?

>>17830855
>What was the land tenure situation in the late 19th century to pre-civil war times?
In the north very fragmented and in the south very large landlords which were provoked by the confiscation of church land and its sale in auctions
>Or did people generally own the land they worked, even if they were still on the whole rarely prosperous?
Spain land property distribution is very different north of the Tagus and south of the Tagus.
The northern section as it was the border in the reconquista for a long time had little land owners as they needed to repopulate the more dangerous regions through favorable colonizing conditions.
The South got conquered in like 20 years so the land got distributed to the military orders, nobles and large encomiendas which explains why the anarchist movement was so popular in Andalucia were agricultural land ownership was very very small.
Only Franco fixed that situation by expropiating the land of land owners and developing higher quality agriculture through extensive irrigation networks that favored density over land use

>>17830785
Yes the weather and the fact that it's a replaced shithole full of crimes and rapes. It's a dying civilization

>>17830815
I mean Spain has significantly less crimes than Britain

>>17830868
I assume this problem ultimately solved itself in the latter half of the 20th century with the mechanization of labor leading to a hollowing out of the countryside? Because I've heard contemporary Spain described as basically a few cities and an empty country.

>>17830869
>it's a replaced shithole full of crimes and rapes.

1. Stop non-wh**e immigration.
2. Remove all the useless regulation that prevents the development of new lands.

Done, after a few years, Spain becomes a thriving and growing European powerhouse.

>>17830800
If he was upset about it, then he would not have blessed the English with a worldwide empire and the opportunity to spread the gospel the heathen North America and elsewhere they colonized.

>>17830630
X.com has been a disaster for 95 IQ retard-righters.
I hate you, and your cockamamie vibes-based substitute of race-science.

>>17831831
you can always fuck off back there 2bh

>>17831854
Already do, thank you very much. You are still wrong. The Jews can't kosher slaughter you fast enough.

>>17831862
Save your seething for your 20 followers and whatever jeet sock puppet you're slapfighting with on Xharat.com anon, we don't need it here

>>17831865
Stop being retarded first then. Also I don't use X.

>>17831867
>you can always fuck off back there
>Already do, thank you very much
Oh it's an actual jeet, sorry saar

>>17831870
Rape

>>17830886
Mechanized agriculture only happens in the interior with wheat which has awful yields and only survives due EU funds. Densification with irrigation was what prompted the agriculture export boom which leaves the country every year with 80 billion euros of trade surplus ( a lot of the meme Dutch agricultural export miracle that people talk about is just rexports from Spain).
The main reason why the interior is empty is because there is no resources there outside wine production, the climate is more extreme and there are usually better places to invest in

>>17832030
>The main reason why the interior is empty is because there is no resources there outside wine production, the climate is more extreme and there are usually better places to invest in
I'd say it's due to over-regulation.
If it were more lax, there would be much more activity. Small-scale power generation, more gardens, tourist/vacation resorts, etc.
The entire central and northern Europe would gladly spend a lot of time, due to our shitty weather.
As I'm writing this post, here in Poland, there's rain outide and the temperature is 16 Celcius.

Spain has the most untapped potential in Europe when it comes to these things.
Italy is probably second with their geothermal resources in Toskany, but that's a different discussion.

>>17826867
The Spaniards just rode on smallpox wave.

>rise

Christianity.

>collapse

Loss of Christianity.

Simple as.

Christ is King.

>>17832246
>Spain has the most untapped potential in Europe when it comes to these things.

And it just occured to me that it also applies to demographics.
There's plenty of high IQ Spanish speakers in South America.
Just fix the economy and reject any low IQ immigrants - you'd have a constant influx of intelligent Argentinians, further strengthening the economy and population.

I guess incompetence and short sightedness runs within the Spanish government's' DNA.

>>17832246
Central Spain can get very cold outside of summer. Madrid's weather is just a dry version of Paris with much warmer summers

>>17832614
Burgos weather snapshot. Outside of being sunnier, it is not a warm place outside of summer.
Central Spain has extreme weather, little precipitation, poor soils, no mineral resources and it is separated from the coast through mountains. It is really just good to raise livestock

>>17826861 (OP)
To be fair, they had a good run.
Nowhere as bad as many Anons yapp.

>>17831865
>Xharat.com
Lmao

>>17826940
>>17827109
>>17830595
It was a mutual relationship that helped both Spaniards and the natives against the Aztecs. But this is something almost no one is willing to accept.

>inb4 all the deaths
>imb4 the cultural genocide
Not Cortes' fault his successors didn't honor their treaties, but even then, the Tlaxcalans still had their own nation inside the Spanish domains, thing that they respected until the independence wars.

>>17830785
>>17830832
England it's way too expensive for its own good. Spain at least still has its own cheap places that are still comfy to live.

>>17826861 (OP)
It's extremely simple really. Spain birthed men of steel and women of character during those centuries, inspired and united under one banner to defend the faith, remove kebab, and expand Christendom all over the Earth. Spain's population was small though, around 5M during the XV to XVIII, with almost null demographic growth, in comparison to the 20M of France, the 25 of Germany, the 12 of Italy, etc.... and as Richelieu said, "in truth, the Spaniards aspire to dominate the Earth, and the only thing preventing it is the small number of them". In comparison, after the XVII century, other powers experienced demographic growth and adapted succesfully to jewish mercantilism and woke enlightenment, whilst Spain was kinda dragged into all that and additionally slowly entered an age of pussyfication that lasts to these days. It is a miracle that the empire survived until well into the XIX century.

But when the playground was more even, back then in the XV, XVI and XVII the huge iron balls of the vastly outnumbered Spaniard was the decissive factor that inclined the balance and again, and again, and again, prevailed over and humilliated all enemies.

>>17834205
>cultural genocide
They keep their own languages and customs they just slowly removed pagan worship and were free to do whatever they wanred in their "republics". Hispanization happened after independence

>>17834463
>pussyfication
True
>Amariconamiento
>Chochificación
>Coñivolución
>Conchificamiento

>>17827061
>Spain in 2025 is a far better country than France, Germany or the UK.
lmao

>>17830785
>poor people points

>>17833676
>>17834463
>>17835803

if spain is so good why are you speaking English right now diego?

>>17826861 (OP)
>rapid rise
God rewarded them for reqonquista.
>rapid collapse
God punished them for their disgusting war against Napoleon and Joseph.

>>17835995
Franco brought them back to God btw.

>>17835999
don't think getting raped by moroccan mercenaries counts as being brought to god 2bh

>>17836004
Did this actually happen?
I don't really know much about spanish history.

>>17835995
>Napoleon and Joseph.
Both atheist leaning

>>17836031
They believed in God.

>>17835906
>>17835906
I am a native Spanish speaker, I can speak English, Chinese, and some words in many languages. Knowing languages is good, you can insult others and been racist using their own language, words hurts a lot more in your native tongue.

Don't feel superior when others speak your tongue, from my point of view you are in an inferior position

>>17836046
Lol, it is a pitty Espoz y Mina didn't butcher Joseph

>>17835900
*get raped*
*get stabbed*
*doesnt own his own house*

>>17826861 (OP)
Spain was a vassal-state of the Habsburgs, Roman Papacy, and Jesuit Order who wanted to expand Catholic influence by any means necessary. Northern Europe didn't have the same incentive as they were Protestant, and the French were busy killing each other. Spain had no real competition for most of the 16th century.

>>17836210
10% of spaniards died in this war for nothing.
And that's not really a bad thing, I guess.

>>17836576
seething italoid

>>17835900
It is though?

>>17836205
Did Spanish people speak Amazigh, Arabic and Punic when getting raped by Hannibal and Tariq ibn Ziyad?

>>17837288
Obsessed

>>17836592
Not 10%

>>17836576
>Jesuit Order
The Jumesuit order that was founded by a former Spanish soldiers

>>17826931
ChatGPT replies should be an automatic permaban and im not joking
kys

>>17837482
Mosr replies here are AIslop spammed by the same latinx

>>17836014
The commies deserved it.

>>17837288
Great example of 2 big history losers. Carthage lost against Rome, and they are remembered as the villains of that wars. Moor expansion were stopped at the battle of Tours & the mountains of northern Iberian peninsula, so they have to cope occupying the plains of Iberia, and later been expelled after the reconquista, what can you expect from the followers of a religion founded by a loser pedo who changed profession from used camel's salesman to a cult leader so he can command orders to losers more retarded than him.

>>17835995
Nah, they got punished for meddling in European affairs. God gave them the Americas to evangelize them and to continue the Reconquista in moorish lands, thing that didn't do it.

>>17835906
Because english is, sadly, the de facto globohomo language.

>>17836205
>>17837727
you're a mexican sanchez