as a christian, how do you reconcile the proof of evolution with the idea that God created everything?
the obvious short answer is "he still made everything, and set it in motion like this.", but I would like to hear more on your takes.
(genuine question, I just want to hear others' opinions on this)

>>17828092 (OP)
>proof of evolution

There's no such thing as "proof" first of all, because information is subjective and people see what they want to see.

Second of all, Scientific creationism does, in fact, believe in "adaptation of species" and selective breeding, but we hold to the idea that God created more simple animals long ago.

There is much reason to believe in intelligent design. If you've never read the hypothesis of intelligent design, it goes like this (simple version): Full blown evolution from single celled organism is physically impossible because there are organs of the human body which are too complicated to come about accidentally or in tiny increments like slime evolution dictates. The eye organ is a system which relies on other systems and those other systems have no reason to come about except for the sole purpose of creating an eye. And that would never happen accidentally.

And now the atheist says:
>but it did happen.
and I say
>no it didn't
and the conversation ends there.

>>17828092 (OP)
I forgot where I heard this but there was a story of a man offering a bowl of milk to God every night and every morning it would be empty. The man would be glad that his sacrifice was being accepted, but one night his curiosity got the best of him and he stayed hidden, waiting for God to drink the bowl of milk. Instead, a fox came and drank it up. Heartbroken and disillusioned, the man returns home thinking all his sacrifices were in vain. But later God appears to him saying "I have no use for milk, but I've accepted your sacrifice and decided to feed others with it."

There's also a pretty thorough commentary on positivism by Pavel Florensky, who says that the contemporary mindset (or as he calls it the renaissance worldview) is all about splitting reality into infinitely small static points, like a differential equation, hoping to understand life by breaking it up into small lifeless bits. And that this way people not only exclude life itself from their analysis, they exclude any possibility of God since if God was here at one moment, he must have been one inch further at another moment, and then another etc.

Some things that we imagine so fantastically actually happen in a very ordinary, base and matter-of-fact way. And at first we might be upset seeing raw mechanisms where we expected to see raw magic. But that's our mistake in expecting matter to work from 8am to 8pm and magic to work from 8pm till morning. It all happens at the same time.

TLDR: I've no idea how to reconcile them but I don't see that I have to. I'm satisfied knowing both are true in their own way.

>>17828092 (OP)
What proof?
Have you ever seen a monkey talk at the zoo? Have you ever once heard of a monkey giving birth to a humanoid? These things have never happened but yet athiests want people to believe it happened 6 million years ago.
Evilution is just a theory with no definitive proof to it.

>>17828092 (OP)
There is no evidence of evolution. Evolutionism is false.

>>17828136
Have some evidence, read this and educate yourself

>>17828199
Oh wowzers I heckin love science!

>>17828092 (OP)
the obvious conclusion is that religiontards are full of shit, it is... common sense

>>17828199
This isn't correct. Now that the human genome has been directly sequenced we have completely disproven what was already a grasping cope that "oh man our chromosome numbers are actually different...well...there must have been a fusion somewhere!".

You can see the claimed site of the fusion by clicking here: http://genome.ucsc.edu/cgi-bin/hgTracks?position=chr2:114360507-114360538&db=hg19&ss=../trash/hgSs/hgSs_genome_4ac5_cc50.pslx+../trash/hgSs/hgSs_genome_4ac5_cc50.fa&hgsid=312102787. The second and third A’s are where the fusion site supposedly is.

Now, telomeres are the sequence CCCTAA (and its compliment, TTAGGG) repeated thousands of times. So to the right of the fusion site, we should see CCCTAA repeated over and over again. To the left, we should see TTAGGG repeated in the same way.

But we don’t. If you keep scrolling to the right, within 500 bases CCCTAA is never repeated more than twice in a row. And if you search within 64,000 bases (which is way longer than a telomere), its only there 136 times at all. Plus, unlike telomeres, the two sequences are jumbled together. You’ve got about 20 TTAGGG’s to the right of the fusion site, and about 20 CCTAAA’s to the left of it. So we don’t see anything at all like a telomere there.

Our mutation rate is not nearly enough to even come close to accounting for these changes if we descend from an apelike ancestor at the time evolution claims. So it is genetically impossible.

There’s also another problem: there’s no extra centromere in Chromosome 2. If two chromosomes fused, you’d have an extra centromere as well as a telomere. But there’s nothing resembling an additional centromere in the chromosome. You image says there is but that is completely false. Look at the paper at https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5722054/, it's written to attempt to account for ways the second centromere could have been excised. It isn't there.

>>17828127
Doesn't answer your question, but this honestly reminds me of the Bible story of Balaam and his donkey

IMO one of the goofier miracles across Scripture, nothing else really like it

>>17828092 (OP)
>proof of evolution
It doesn't exist. This shouldn't surprise you, since evolution is mathematically impossible. Typically, mathematically impossible things don't have proof. You're an idiot.

>>17828551
Can you give those numbers and their sources?

>proof of evolution

You can't look at nature and not believe in a religion. You mean to tell me that literally every single thing started out as some blob fish thing and just willed itself to become every different animal.

>the Pangolin just willed itself to look like that!

If everything is lelated then that means everything has the potential to turn itself into a Pangolin

C'mon dig up a fossil in my backyard and just maybe I'll give it a thought. C'mon do it

>>17828092 (OP)
The Bible says that God created life.
Some people say that life spontaneously occurred on its own and then evolved into more complex forms.
Neither of those these claims has been reproduced in a laboratory settings, and therefore are unscientific.
The only remaining question is: Do you hate or love God? If you hate him you will accept the latter explanation, if you love him, the former.
Strictly speaking, though, the idea that life evolves is not contrary to Biblical teaching. Only the idea that God did not create life is contrary to Biblical teaching.

>>17828586
Lambda viruses: https://telliamedrevisited.wordpress.com/2019/03/06/evolution-goes-viral-and-how-real-science-works/
35 million: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16339373/
Genghis Khan study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1180246/

>>17828608
>dig up a fossil in my backyard

>>17828102
>>but we hold to the idea that God created more simple animals long ago.
>”Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.”
God straight up created livestock already enslaved to humans lol. And why didnt god say we evolved from lesser monkeys?

>>17828127
>Have you ever seen a monkey talk at the zoo? Have you ever once heard of a monkey giving birth to a humanoid? These things have never happened but yet athiests want people to believe it happened 6 million years ago.
We killed all our fellow sapien Apes. Neanderthals, Denosovans, etc.
>Evilution is just a theory with no definitive proof to it.
We’ve recorded multiple animals evolving lmaoooooo

>>17828721
>lmaoooooo
Opinion discarded. Have fun burning.

>>17828721
There's micro evolution but macroevolution (ie walking fish -> monkey -> human) is a load of baloney.

>Christcuckies will tell you that all these breeds were created day-whatever of creation

>>17828728
I won’t burn because there isn’t a Hell. Sorry to say. You’re just a little electric spark bouncing between neurons in your brain. Once that spark stops it’s over. I’m sorry.
>>17828736
Macro evolution is just micro evolution over the course of hundreds of millions of years silly. If evolution isn’t real why do whales have useless bones that only exist because they were once the pelvis of terrestrial mammals? Why does the human body destroy itself over time from walking around upright?

>>17828737
God created the wolf and man selectively breeded the wolf into all these monstrossities

Nice try fedoratheist

>>17828736
>There's micro evolution but macroevolution (ie walking fish -> monkey -> human) is a load of baloney.
We have the fossils showing how it happened tho

>>17828755
Produce the monkey fish frog then

>>17828750
What is selective breeding? Explain how it works.

>>17828758
A wolf was born that was maybe a little shorter than other wolves or had a slightly different and then people bred it with other wolves that were a little shorter and uglyier than other wolves and so on and so fourth

But the wolf itself is still the same

>>17828757
We already have it’s called tiktaalik. Fish with early wrist bones.

>>17828771
How do you know those bones came from a fish. How do you know those bones are as old as you think that are

>>17828737
God created the world. No one says man can't change the world around him

>>17828764
Domestic dogs have different behavior, skull structure, social instincts, and digestion from wolves. If that’s ‘still the same,’ then I guess your iPhone and a landline are ‘still just phones.’ Dogs can digest grain while wolves cannot. A dog can recognize human social cues while a wolf cannot. A dog can even understand gestures while even apes cannot.

>>17828771
>bajillions of monkey fish frogs just crawled out of the pool and turned into literally everything
>birds = monkey fish frog
>crocodile = monkey fish frog
>rhino = monkey fish frog
>frog = monkey fish

>>17828781
No one says you can't adapt in the world

But me and my dog are not monkey fish frogs

>>17828775
We have compared Tiktaalik’s bones to tons of other fish and early land animals. It’s fins literally have wrist and finger bones. It’s half fish, half tetrapod. Not some random fossil they found. And specimens has been found repeatedly, instead of it being some one off coincidence. As for age, we don’t date the bones themselves, we date the volcanic ash layers above and below the fossils using radioactive decay. It’s basic physics, not some wild theory. Multiple labs from all over the world get the same results.
>>17828777
Provide proof

>>17828771
This dumbfuck fish in the (a) better go back into the water or he's gonna choke to death this fucking retard. Idiot-finned fish more like.

>>17828782
>>bajillions of monkey fish frogs just crawled out of the pool and turned into literally everything
We indeed have multiple specimens showcasing fish evolving to became land dwelling. We also have Panderichthys, Tiktaalik, Elpistostege, Acanthostega, Ichthyostega, and Ventastega. Now can you show me Adam and Eves fossils?>>17828783
You could be if your species had been pressured over the course of hundreds of millions of years into biological niches by external survival factors. I mean you’re just an ape that got stuck outside of the jungle for too long.

>>17828792
>This dumbfuck fish in the (a) better go back into the water or he's gonna choke to death this fucking retard. Idiot-finned fish more like.
He’ll be fine. We’ve got lungfish and mudskippers to show how it worked.

>>17828807
Oh so this little guy is gonna transform into a human eventually. You know what you convinced me, God doesn't exist.

>>17828816
>Oh so this little guy is gonna transform into a human eventually.
No it’s found its niche. If evolutionary pressures kill off the normal ones and only those with slight genetic mutations survive then over the course of a few million years it may turn into a frog like creature, then into a lizard like creature, and then into a bird like creature. Past that if it’s feathers become hairs and its body starts making its own warmth then you may have a pseudo-mammal, then with enough time it may resemble a mouse, then a squirrel, then a monkey, then an ape, and then maybe a human, but this all implying that evolutionary pressures force it into that direction instead of it just bottoming out as a basic little guy. The lungfish has remained unchanged for millions of years because it does it job well enough to reproduce. Should situation change then it’ll either go extinct or change itself.
>You know what you convinced me, God doesn't exist.
Never said God didn’t exist just that it’s most likely not the God who allegedly made the planet in 6 days and shit out horses and cows as is, and had the entirety of humanity come from a single bloke and bitch is unlikely to be real.

>>17828833
Got it. So could we go as far as claiming other creationist religions dont need proofs since their books or whatever doesnt relate to Adam and Eve or those infamous totally unscientifical 6 days?

>>17828846
>So could we go as far as claiming other creationist religions dont need proofs since their books or whatever doesnt relate to Adam and Eve or those infamous totally unscientifical 6 days?
No. But I invite you to give me creation stories from other religions as famous as Genesis and/or follows perfectly along with evolution and scientific findings.

>>17828851
Nahh dude i aint no scholar. But i think many people believe those, whatever they are or in some cases even invent themselves one.
I'm actually glad we have an elite tho, that can claim their way is the only one possible because of their fish Gods. Kind of a relief.

>>17828771
>>17828807
>>17828833
>some fish are capable of limited ability to move on land
>therefore this one particular fish a bajillion years ago totally transformed into literally everything
>but no other fish is capable of transforming into literally everything
>and evolution is totally real and happened but uh uh uh it just stopped and the walking fish today don't need to turn into literally everything
>but but they could if they wanted to!
>but that one fish a bajillion years ago did have to turn into literally everything!

>>17828858
>But i think many people believe those,
They're wrong and most likely low iq or simply haven't had access to Western scientific studies.
>whatever they are or in some cases even invent themselves one.
Which shows religion is just morality copium
>I'm actually glad we have an elite tho, that can claim their way is the only one possible because of their fish Gods.
Unless someone can find a more accurate model with more evidence backing it up then its the best we got.
>Kind of a relief.
It really is, knowing that we don't need to suck up to some old guy in the clouds or face eternal torture in magic lava

>>17828872
No no you don't get it dude! Read the last 5-6 posts where i talk with him! As long as it's not Christianity, it's fine!
Relax holy shit.

>>17828872
No one said a fish transformed into literally everything. That’s not how evolution works, chief. Some fish millions of years ago developed adaptations for shallow water and mudflats. Over time, those adaptations helped their descendants survive better on land. Through millions of small changes, some lineages branched out — amphibians, reptiles, mammals, birds, etc. Meanwhile, other fish just stayed fish. The walking fish today? They’re doing fine in their niche. Evolution doesn’t have a goal. It doesn’t need to keep turning fish into apes just to prove a point. It didn’t ‘stop,’ it just doesn’t need to repeat the same path when the conditions aren’t the same. You’re not descended from all fish, just one population whose kids wandered too far up the beach and didn’t die. Evolution isn't God, it isn't allegedly all knowing and doesn't have some sort of ‘plan’. The conditions that brought Humans here no longer exist, and until Humans die out we’re kinda hogging our niche, that being highly intelligent tool using omnivores.

>>17828878
Not what I said, cry about it lol. Christianity is just as convincing as any other religion. IE not at all. Now unless you can meet my request >>17828846
then all religions are pretty much just copium hopium.

>>17828652
I don't see how the Genghis Khan study supports what was written. I'm a Creationist too but your pic needs to be fleshed out a lot. As written it feels like random numbers thrown together

>>17828888
>Not what I said
>"Never said God didn’t exist just that it’s most likely not the God who allegedly made the planet in 6 days and shit out horses and cows as is, and had the entirety of humanity come from a single bloke and bitch is unlikely to be real."

>>17828892
Forgot pic sorry.

>>17828892
>>17828893
>argues Christianity
>responds refuting Christianity
>OH WHAT FUCK THE FUCK BRO FUCK YOU

>>17828892
Who says he's not arguing against Judaism?

>>17828910
Where did i argue for or against Christianity?

>>17828916
Christian board

>>17828551
Hold on so humans split from chimps and we see 35 000 000 different dna pairs today which means 17,5M mutations happened per branch.
Now you say that at least 50 generations are needed to fix A mutation.

But then how many mutations can be fixed by generation? (genuine question here)

>>17828736

Fuck off, impersonator. This thread is retarded. Evolution doesn't happen in any quantity, that's what I believe, sneed.

>>17828199

>some letters and 3d models

>prove jesus christ isn't king

They named it EVElution, because EVE ate the apple, and plunged us into sin. (((Evolution))) is satanic.

>>17829023

FACT.

>proof of evolution
No such thing OP
/Thread

>>17828276
You lost this argument weeks ago. We directly see that the chromosomes are fused.

>>17828551
This math you wrote literally isn't describing parallel fixation. You just blatantly lied here.

We directly observe evolution happening. You guys are retarded

>>17828943
There are about ~120 fixations per generation in both humans and chimps.

>>17828943
Multiple mutations can be fixed by generation - It's often referred to as "parallel fixation". However, the 50 generation minimum takes that into account. Read the study.
>>17828891
>pic needs to be fleshed out a lot
Feel free to contribute.

>>17829023
This right here.

>>17830309
>You just blatantly lied here.
No, you just don't know what a mathematical average is. Tick tock!

>>17830975
One mutation takes x generations.
That is not the same as x generations need to pass before a new fixation. Every generation has fixations at a rate that is equal to the average mutation rate. That's the average.
You either lied knowing this or don't understand what youre talking about. Youre using a one at a time rate of fixation, not a parallel fixation.

>>17830975
Get saved for real.