>the common man still believes in free will and individual personalities

>free will
why are atheists obsessed with free will when there is no scientific proof of determinism

>individual personalities
everyone is at least slightly different

>>17831039
>there is no scientific proof of determinism
Not only that, determinism has been verifiably out of the picture since the 20th century thanks to quantum physics, which are precisely non-deterministic. I suppose when one's faith is that everything can be reduced to dead matter and that dead matter doesn't contain surprises, then free will is naturally a monkey wrench.

>>17831029 (OP)
Individual personalities? What that means?
Free will is real. But here's the kicker - you have to make it free.

>>17831029 (OP)
The Talmud is absolute truth and will of God.

>>17831065
>But here's the kicker - you have to make it free
And how do (you) do that? Your brain computates it? Your brain is just the product of your genes.
>no no no I'm influenced by my life experiences
And how you relate or think about those experiences is entirely based off genetics. Lets say you make the choice to marry a more frumpy homely girl instead of a hot one due to your connection with her. Sure you're defying your instinctual nature but what you can't do is make yourself attracted to a scorpion or a mollusk. Every decision we make is just from a limited spread of choices within our given nature. People just think because they have 100,000 choices at any given time that its unlimited but its not. Its no different than have two or none on a fundamental level.

>>17831029 (OP)
>the common man
>defined by determinism and sameness
Read Gasset

>>17831065
>Not only that, determinism has been verifiably out of the picture since the 20th century thanks to quantum physics, which are precisely non-deterministic.
Your answer to the "turtles the way down" query, then?

>>17831065
The non-deterministic qualities of matter at the quantum level are so minuscule that they are practically deterministic. The precise positions of electrons have absolutely zero practical consequence with regards to questions of free will and consciousness, whether or not an electron is in position A vs position B within an unimaginably tiny space has no relation to anything practical.

>>17832628
>> You have to make [your will] free
>And how do (you) do that?
By breaking free from sin and letting your nature make the picks.
>>no no no I'm influenced by my life experiences
I don't know who you're quoting

>>17833071
All the way down where? I'm just saying we formulated a hypothesis and it turned out to be wrong. How stuff actually works is of little importance to me given that our cognitive machinery isn't designed to give us an accurate picture of what "stuff" surrounds us to begin with.

>>17833085
That entirely depends on how technical or intuitive you're trying to be. If you're trying to be completely technical, then even a single quantum uncertainty related event in the brain would make it non-deterministic and there are no good reasons to exclude those from likely happening in channel functions and various transmitter binding events. If you're trying to be more intuitive, as in that things can be roughly simplified into determinism, then you have ceded the discussion since it is much more intuitive and straightforward to simplify things into non-determinism.
Your position is only feasible if we take a cocktail shaker and manage to mix technical POV and intuitive POV ratios just right for one particular taste.

>>17833103
>All the way down where?
That there are deterministic principles that grant the illusion of non-determinism.

>>17833108
Then yes, it's turtles all the way down the determinism of the gaps.

>>17831039
You can be an atheist and believe in free will, not everyone is a fedora tipper.

>>17832628
>what you can't do is make yourself attracted to a scorpion or a mollusk
You don't know me.

>>17833192
Even off a guess I know I'm right.

>>17831029 (OP)
>no unified field theory of physics
>no perfect model of human brain
you got nothin

>>17831029 (OP)
its even worse... when a person is a true mutt of many races their spirit is nothing less than a schizophrenic dumpster fire