The issue is primarily genetic. In Italy there is a significant presence of ancestry from Anatolian farmers and pre-Indo-European agricultural populations. These groups had a matriarchal or gynocentric cultural orientation. This has influenced the mindset and behavior of many modern Italians. In contrast, Slavic and Germanic populations have a higher proportion of steppe ancestry, associated with Indo-European pastoralist groups. These groups had a patriarchal structure and were less prone to female-centered religious or social systems.

This difference is visible even in religious practices. In Italy there is a widespread devotion to Mary, which has parallels with older goddess cults like those of Ishtar and Cybele. In contrast, Northern European traditions have maintained a stronger focus on the male aspect of divinity, connected to the archetype of Dyeus Pater, the Indo-European sky father.

These ancestral differences may also explain the relationship many modern Italian men have with women and femininity. There is a tendency toward idealization and submission, often framed culturally as chivalry or romanticism, but possibly rooted in much older religious and social patterns. In contrast, men from populations with stronger steppe ancestry may exhibit more assertive or hierarchical attitudes toward gender roles.

It is likely that some individuals, including myself and perhaps you, have a higher proportion of steppe ancestry. This could explain a sense of alienation or discomfort with the cultural traits that dominate in parts of Italy. These traits may be rooted in older, pre-Indo-European traditions that are no longer aligned with our instinctive values and orientation.

>>17832254 (OP)
Even in bronze age, they had only 20% steppe ancestry.. and their gods were mainly Chthonic gods. Look at the north, which even preserved non-Indo-European languages, and we have the same in the south, like the natives of Sicily. Linguistically, things are even worse; not only vocabulary, but also verbs are considered "Mediterranean," with the lack of identification of an EEF linguistic family. Moreover, the Italics later copied Greek desues that were no longer even so Indo-European, with all that syncretism with Pelasgian garbage. In short, Indo-Europeans only existed above the Pyrenees, north of the Alps, and north of Macedonia. Medes are just EEFs who spoke an IE language. It's a shame that the Pamirs with chule and North Indians have more steppe than them. New Spanish samples from the Bronze Age show an average of 20% steppe, shameful.

>>17832254 (OP)

>demon worship mentioned

Didn't read.

>>17832296
2/2In fact, as a Portuguese, I see that the new Lusitanian samples from the Bronze Age show even less steppe, similar to the Basques. Samples from the Republic have little steppe

>>17832296
Yes. Italics weren't IE at all

Holy incel bomb. Italy is far more patriarchal: Germanics are completely pussywhipped by their women, in Italy they are thot patrolled or if not women still retain a degree of femininity. Slavic women will fuck anyone with money and slavic men have no power over this

>>17832320
Germanics are feminists on paper, while italiams are on practice. And here we talk more about veneration and reverence, italians in that sense have a totally submissive slave-of-flesh approach to women that isn't comparable with northern europeans. In fact when slavs or germanic women move to Italy they find their simp paradise they never found in their home countries. And this is consistent throughout history: even during middle ages italian were simps and slaves of pussy, see Dante, Petrarca, Dolce Stil Novo as a whole, the trobadours etc.

>>17832320
This
>>17832296
The roman gods aren't "greek gods with a different name": the Romans had their native Italic pantheon.

During the Empire Romans began to identify their gods with the greek ones (Interpretatio Romana).

A similar thing was done by germanic tribes (Interpretatio Germanica)

>>17832348

>gods

>demons

FTFY.

>>17832327
>In fact when slavs or germanic women move to Italy
They become cumdumps and are expected to have feminine roles, like cooking at home. In germanic cucktries they'll call the police if they are catcalled and boss their beta providers around. It's time to start actually experiencing the world firsthand

>>17832363
It's not about their role but their power over men. They destroy families, blackmail men, divorce-rape them all the time, because italian men have ingrained woman worship behaviour which is more subtle than feminism, it's a sexual-chthonic adoration in an almost sacrifical sense

>>17832254 (OP)
>These groups had a matriarchal or gynocentric cultural orientation
Yes, the matriarchal cultures of Central Italy. Which all constructed their basic societal blocks around the absolute power of a man over his family even having the power of life and death over them all the while denying all power and positions in every way shape or form to women.
>>17832296
>Moreover, the Italics later copied Greek desues that were no longer even so Indo-European
The most popular gods of Central Italy were native oness, namely Janus and Quirinus as well as the Sky-Father Jupiter, which was a universal amongst all Indo-Europeans.

"Of his son, who lorded it over his mother, and through her over himself, he said, jestingly, that the boy was the most powerful of all the Hellenes; for the Hellenes were commanded by the Athenians, the Athenians by himself, himself by the boy's mother, and the mother by her boy."

>>17832254 (OP)
>muh EEF was matriarchal/gynocentrist
No retarded faggot
Celts, Scythians and Sarmatians were way more matriarchal than them for exempld

>>17832431
Loving his mother doesnt mean being matriarchal
Even boy favorite person is his mother retarded tranny
Matriarchy is giving power to women in general and this is exactly what whitoids nordoids do in

>>17832327
>>17832254 (OP)
>Achukaually you are the matriarchal ones
Nordtranny whitoid cope
You are all pussywhipped feminist who do matriarchal shit even in ancient times and sarmatians/scythians and celts were way more matriarchal than EEF

>>17832444
Wrong
This study shows matrilineal, matrilocal and even matrifocal structures among the proto-EEFS

>>17832448
>Loving his mother doesnt mean being matriarchal
Literally is

>be germanic man
>get infected by classical-hellenistic mind virus
>die

Many such cases

>>17832452
Wrong its a common misconception because a feminist author said that they were matriarchal
>>17832453
If you think that its because you are a closeted low t matriarchal cuck faggot
Everyman favorite person in his mother unless she is batshit insane or whatever

>>17832456
Delusional germcuck
Romans and Greeks were one of the most patriarchal societies ever

Italians have been simps since before the word existed. Their entire literary tradition is just a bunch of guys writing love poems to women who wanted nothing to do with them.

Start with Petrarch. He sees a woman named Laura in church. She is married. She ignores him. He spends the next thirty years writing poems about how perfect she is and how sad he feels. This man basically invented the sonnet just to cope with rejection. They teach this in schools like it is some noble pursuit. It is emotional begging in verse.

Then you have Dante. He speaks to Beatrice maybe twice. She dies. He writes the Divine Comedy so he can imagine meeting her in heaven. Not even in a dream. He has to write a three part cosmic tour just to pretend she acknowledged him. This is not romance. It is medieval fan fiction.

But the worst is Leopardi. He was sickly and bitter and he got rejected by a servant girl. A servant. After that he declares that life is pain and nature is cruel and everything is meaningless. His whole philosophy boils down to one woman not liking him. He turns that into a career. People call him a genius. He is just sad with a dictionary.

While other countries were building empires Italy was producing volumes of poetry about being ignored. Centuries of men crying into parchment. They did not pursue love. They submitted to it. They did not love women. They worshipped the idea of being noticed by them.

Italians did not invent romance. They invented the literary friendzone.

ANF bros??
(From the main PDF)
Matrilineal AND matrilocal society, not always together. And probably matrifocal too... our answer?!?!?! The truly matriarchal society
Women stayed in their homes—men moved in i.e. MALE EXOGAMY LMAO LMAO LMAO gigacucks

>>17832494
Kek Meanwhile, our *h2éri̯os were patrilineal, patrifocal and patrifocal
Studies also show this patriarchal tendency among them

>Figure 3 Patrilineal succession. >Temporal distribution of key Y chromosome haplogroups from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Russia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, and
comparative regions of Europe and West Asia 6000-1000 BCE. The Early and Middle Bronze Age group includes the Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Poltavka, Catacomb, Chemurchek, and North
Caucasus cultures; the Middle and Late Bronze Age group individuals of diverse cultures down
to 1000 BCE including those of the Sintashta, Andronovo, Potapovka, and Srubnaya cultures.

>>17832527
Sorry, every time I copy and paste a quote from these articles, things get messed up for some reason, but I took this from Lazaridis' study (everyone here has their differences and I'm one of them) on PIEs.

>>17832531
>>17832527
>>17832494
Literally feminist propaganda
Also 95 % of people were patriarchal and patrilineal in history you retarded wignat cuck
Why are you citing this as something unique ?
And celts/sarmatians/scythians were matriarchal and we know it retarded faggot

IE cucks got raped by turko-mongols and finno ugrics anyway

>>17832527
>>17832531
One more thing, I read this study and others about the farmbugs, and to be fair and sincere as a true Aryan that I try to be, it seems that only the original farmbugs or "amphoids", were really submissive faggots to their wives like modern men, the other farmbugs, especially the Western ones, were very patrilineal and patrifocal.
(Related pic) Maybe a cultural influence of the hunter-cucks? Who put their women in their place? Anyway... we can theorize that. The paternal haplotypes HC (hunter-cucks) surviving that of the farmbugs shouldn't be something arbitrary and unimportant, in certain places, they almost make up the majority. But anyway, both were defeated by the Aryans anyway

>>17832544
Scandis, finno ugrics, and turko-mongols and balkans cucked aryan/ie cucks

>whites/euros are one of the most pussy whipped/matriarchal cucks ever
>start to larp as patriarchal because of neolithic memes

Dishonest and kike like

>>17832543
No. Even the Sakas were mostly IE, they mixed with the Chinkling women as the Iberians did with the native women until their non-existence.
The Finns are still predominantly IE, and the ST phenomenon was mediated by Iranians anyway. Native Urals were irrelevant.
Tell me.. Mycenaeans, average.. let me see.. less than 30% steppe? and yet, the Pelasgians, Caucones, Dryopes, Cynurians, Minoans, Ectenes and other Farmoid trash somehow worshipped the steppe gods and adopted steppe dialects... that sounds like a victory to me. the Greeks said that the Athenians were Pelasgians and indigenous to the Farmoid land, and yet... wow. they were devotees of Zeus and other IE deities and had an IE dialect the same in moorberia
>>17832544
Based

>>17832557
>Scandis
I2 found in samples including pre-Yamnaya was a haplogroup present in the steppe anyway. and was definitely spread by the BAC
>finno ugrics
and yet with less Asian ancestry than the more western Sarmatians
>turko-mongols
Explain
>balkans
found throughout the Balkans was mediated by the Yamnaya. There is even a new sample from the last study (Sample ID is: Amv_Epi_Cl_2) with this haplo, and it is not the only one, see sample I10206, the Yamnaya twins from Moldova (Kurgan in Constantinovca) and etc etc an IE haplo anyway.

finno ugrics, and turko-mongols and balkans cucked aryan/ie cucks

>>17832565
Myceneans were majority j2a, farmoids throughly cucked steppoids in Greece. In the modern world higher steppe equals to matriarchy and outright cuckoldry, Scotland, Sweden, Netherlands being the biggest offenders

>>17832565
The Hellenic Aristotes had 40% steppe in the MLBA, check logkas. And although yes, they suffered a substantial dilution, some pylos samples show almost 26% steppe, and a clear observable R1B, the classic IE clade of the paleo_balkan J2b
probably mediated by the Catacomb culture
Ps: not my model*

>>17832586
Logkas was a balcanoid woman in a cave, richest mycenean tomb had 0 steppe

>>17832575
>j2a
See here>>17832574
My amateur friend, haplogroup J2b L283 in the Balkans was clearly introduced by Indo-European peoples. The Cetina culture and Illyrian samples from the western Balkans generally descend from the Z597 branch, found among the western Yamnaya in Ukraine and Moldova. The Constantinovca Kurgan contained two ancient samples of Z597 (twin brothers) on the Moldavian-Ukrainian border. Recently, a new ancient sample of J2b L283 was found among the early Mycenaeans, this time in Kirrha, Greece. The sample is CGG_2_022411/RISE 1616, dated to around 1650 BC. It's Yamnaya..
Wait, you think some magical churka invasion happened? Kek amateur as fuck

>>17832590
You're that Brazilian, aren't you? You came here to be refuted by me for the 3rd time this week?
>elite
There are elites with steppe in Pylo above 10%. 20s is the Mediterranean standard; we see this in Italy, Iberia, and of course, the southern Aegean. Although regions north of Greece have more, such as the Illyrians, and some Etruscan samples, and Iberia have 30%. Furthermore, Logkas are so irrelevant that we obtain better P values for the steppe source in the Greeks. So yes, dilate as much as you want, ugly.

>>17832598
Doesn't change anything, myceneans were still majority j2a with low steppe elites

>>17832565
Cope, N, C and Q cucked IE cucks
And many others

>>17832606
I accept your concession, my bro
The haplogroup question has already been answered and explained here three times by me. You tried your best to troll like a high school kid with poorly researched speech, and this is the end. I'm happy to educate you. The question of steppe ancestry has already been explained (and is obvious, by the way). When I quoted Logkas about the lack of steppe in Greeks, your answer was so constructive that I had a heart attack. It's over, damn it. Don't confuse it with other anons.
>le Griffin Warrior
he is not the only elite and his sample has a low amount of SNPs

>>17832575
Not even modern
Scytians/celts/samartians were very matriarchal

>>17832574
>>17832598
This in fact, haplogroup WHGs have even been found in some Eneolithic populations pre-SS/PiE
>>17832625
The Griffin sample is low quality, literal garbage.
The sample is damaged, however, so the numbers aren't likely to be completely accurate.
But playing around with qpAdm, I got more than 0% step.
>>17832606
Troon, their average could reach up to 24% in some samples
>>17832254 (OP)
Only the ANF were matriarchal, the rest of europeans farmers, was proto-muslism

>>17832540
>its fake bacause... it's fake ok?
Stop coping, your bros were cucks>>17832494
>>17832527
Kino

>>17832625
I didn't concede anything, you went on an unrelated schizo tangent

>>17832649
not him, but he was the one who left the topic of the thread, faggot, not us dumb sameflag Haploautism

>>17832642
>troon
Talking about IE/aryan/scythian cuck trannies ?
>>17832648
Because it all come from a feminist thinking they were matriarchal
They werent and IE cucks were more matriarchal just like scythians/celts/sarmatians show

>>17832659
>They wuz femininistz n shiet just because
>i Don't like the conclusions, even me being unanle to show the otherwise
Anon stop, will you? You got btfo here several times kek

IE won, again

>>17832254 (OP)
If we define matriarchy as "women having power"
Italy is by far the most patriarchal country in the west, and the second most patriarchal country in the 1st world, as the difference in income between men and women is the steepest behind south korea.
If you have other definitions, like your mother not being a whore, or your family not kicking you out of the house, as "matriarchal", then it's probably a matriarchal country according to your definitions.