You get secularism from the Bible, and actually, you wouldn't have freedom of religion or atheists if it weren't for Christian society.

You should count yourself lucky then, that you found yourself in a better society, Anon.

>>17835703 (OP)
maximum cope...OP has lost touch with reality lol

>>17835713
If you don't believe me you should read the Render Unto Caesar parable

>>17835703 (OP)
>>17835721
>the Bible invented x, it just didn't get implemented nor was even advocated for in Christian societies for many centuries because... people just didn't get it
I think you're just reading your own modern ideas into the text.

>>17835737
Where would they get this idea then, lol..?

>>17835703 (OP)
A couple hundred years ago good Christians would have burned you at the stake for saying that

>>17835703 (OP)
Is this the Christian equivalent of we wuzzery?

>>17835713
>>17835737
>>17835780
>>17835874
>Catholicism is Christianity

>>17835897
It is a major Christian sect.

>>17835927
>Catholicism is Christianity

>>17835739
Enlightenment thinkers wanted churches to be less powerful because they were tired of war and persecution driven by religious differences. That's why they wanted to separate church and state.

>>17835935
Sorry if the truth is inconvenient for you

>>17836144
Checked, the dub shows truth

How do sedevacantist catholics feel about protestants? From one point of view it seems like one of their issues with Vatican II is the ecumenist leaning, so I'd expect them to dislike protestants even moreso than regular catholics. But from another point of view: surely there is a connection between them - both dissented from the Catholic church that they believed to be degrading in religious purity and moral authority.
For what it's worth I'd like to know the same about FSSPX - it seems like they're really kind of close to the sedevacantist position, just willing to pay some more lip service to the official church to somehow remain in some partial communion.

>>17835703 (OP)
Secularism is more a product of Protestantism than the Bible directly.
>>17835721
Render unto Caesar has nothing to do with secularism.

>>17836093
I'd like to know what'd they think about the fact that the bloodiest and most destructive wars the world has ever seen have happened under secularism. If Enlightenment thinkers seriously thought that separating church and state would bring about peace and co-existence, they were horribly mistaken.

>>17836282
I think that has more to do with the fact that modern tech and a larger pop allowing for far larger causalties rather than secularism

>>17836279
Says who, you?

>>17836282
It's fairly cut and dry, you have separate duties to the government and to God.

>>17836439
Caesar was not a secular ruler nor was the Roman empire a secular state, so how exactly did Jesus advocate for the separation of Church and state?

>>17836309
You misunderstand me, I'm not saying that secularism caused it (although there are some instances in which you could definitely make the such cases like in communist countries or the Middle East right now), I'm saying that secularism has done absolutely nothing to prevent or reduce bloodshed.

>>17836546
Jesus was symbolizing Caesar as a worldly government compared to God who transcends this, so your duties to each were separated by Earth and by Heaven, both different but respective of their domains

That's what it meant and that is the essence of secularism

>>17836546
This was also a politicotheoretical formula of the Holy Roman Empire for so long with Emperor and Pope, together, residing over matters material and spiritual as two rulers.

>>17836753
>Jesus was symbolizing Caesar as a worldly government compared to God who transcends this
Source? Because a plain reading shows that all he was talking about was paying taxes.

>>17836760
>This was also a politicotheoretical formula of the Holy Roman Empire
You mean the absolute monarchy with a state religion which found its legitimacy in the divine right of kings and Divine command theory?

>>17836782
>appealing to authority and not logic

Ok, read Holy Roman Empire by James Bryce and leave me alone then

>>17836785
>read this book!
No, justify your ideas yourself.

>>17836787
You're the one appealing to authority so there's your battle of argument

>>17836093
I want Protestants, Jews and moslems to be persecuted again desu.
Humanism was a good idea but its really shitty in practice.

>>17836791
>ou're the one appealing to authority
What authority am I appealing to? I'm just citing the plain text.

>>17836797
Yes you are narrowing down your perspective to a literal authority of the Bible, a Gospel writer, without any other context in the Bible or otherwise which would allude to it.

>>17836811
>without any other context in the Bible
There is no context that would make Jesus' words supporting secularism, secularism as a concept DID NOT EVEN EXIST at the time of Jesus, like I said, neither the Caesar nor the Empire were secular entities, there was no separation of Church and state anywhere in Rome or the rest of the known world for that matter, the Romans considered the proper worship of the gods as a matter of national security, the Roman Emperor was well on its way to be considered divine himself and his worship was spreading.

What Jesus and the Pharisees were arguing about was whether or not they had an obligation to pay taxes to the Romans or not, and it wasn't even a sincere question, it was a trap set by them in order to deligimize him and either make him a fool if he couldn't come up with an answer, a traitor if he said that they shouldn't pay the taxes, or a bootlicker if he said that they should.

>>17836838
That's not the only thing that is to be analyzed there

>>17836901
Actually, it is, no one's talking about anything but Jesus' words, not the fucking HRE, you brought it up.

>>17836909
This was the origin of secularization thoughever, and this was used and brought up in Christian soiety which evolved into a secular society. You say everyone in that time period wasn't secular, ok, I agree.. Jesus was setting the precedence for secularization with what he said there about taxes or whatever. It couldn't have come from anywhere else but Christian thought.

Everyone itt

>>17836949
Sorry, I'm never going.

>>17836932
>This was the origin of secularization thoughever, and this was used and brought up in Christian soiety which evolved into a secular society.
Not really, if that was the case we would've seen secularism expanding as an idea since the beginning of Christianity, rather than what actually happened which was an explotion of secular ideas due to the death and destruction caused by the European wars of religion after the rise of Protestantism, it's true that Christian justifications were found but the idea itself of secularism preceeded such justifications. In my opinion secularism is a "Christian" idea in the same sense that the Crusades were "Christian", as in, a phenomenon that was emerging on its own but was given post hoc Christian rationalization.

>>17836959
Oh yes you are.
>you'll have to drag me kicking and screaming
Ok that can be arranged >:^)
>noooooo it hurts!
taste my red hot poker!
*searing flesh sounds
>ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhhh ahhh
Ahahaaahahahahhaah
That's only a taste heathen. We have eternity to play in the magical underground lava pit of eternal pain and suffering.
>Noooooooooooooooo why wasn't I good
prepare the anal stretcher minions
>*gulp

>>17835897
yes thats correct
they’re the first christians anon
they wrote the bible you idolize

>>17836990
Keep piling damnation on your head. I can't wait to view your Hellish torment from the comfort of heaven.

>>17836991
Have fun burning. You fully deserve it.

>>17836996
nope, I’m going to purgatory to be purified, then Heaven :)

>>17837007
>I love lies.
I know. Tick tock.

>>17836989
Sorry, I disagree, and I think my interpretation of secularization deriving from advanced Christian thought, brought on by Sola Scriptura, is a better explanation for this then the European wars of religion.

>>17837018
I’ll pray for you anon, don’t forget to go to Mass tomorrow morning, Sunday is the Holy day of obligation
skipping Mass is a mortal sin
you don’t want to turn away from salvation do you?

>>17837024
I'm already saved, forever. You are in "mortal sin" every moment that you don't trust in Jesus for your salvation (you don't). Those flames just got hotter. Have fun burning.

>>17837027
sorry anon, but if you don’t affirm the Law of Jesus you’re not being faithful to Him :(
don’t worry, the confession booth is always open a full hour before Mass starts, plenty of time to get absolved for your sinfulness

>>17837030
You're going to burn in Hell, forever. Tick tock!

>>17837038
I’ll keep a pew open for you, See you tomorrow Anon :)
God loves you

>>17837043
God hates you. Enjoy Hell.