The Soviet Union built better tanks than Nazi Germany.

Quantity isn't akin to quality, Ivanovicha.

>>17837555
The Germans had no idea how to knock out a t34 or a KV during Barbarossa. The only saving grace was the incompetence of the Red Army at the time.

Had they met a professional force with the same armament, hmmm....

>>17837555
Soviet tanks were of better quality though. That's why Daimler tried to copy superior Soviet engineering.

>>17837511 (OP)
the IS-2 (while flawed) certainly wasn't bad (at least the late production version with the fully sloped front plate)
but in general?

just take a look at the T-34
> two man turret until arrival of T-34-85
> utter horrible situational awareness thanks to shitty and a lack of optics (T-34 didn't even have a commander's cupola at all until mid 1942, but even that one was hot garbage)
> inferior main gun after 1941
> worse saftey, no hatch for the machine gunner (which btw. often had to rely on iron sight), hatch for the driver is easily jammed

>>17837562
> The Germans had no idea how to knock out a t34 or a KV during Barbarossa

> By 22 June 1941, the Red Army deployed almost 1,000 T-34 and over 500 KV tanks, concentrated in five of their twenty-nine mechanized corps. By the end of December 1941, they had lost 2,300 T-34 and over 900 KV tanks

>>17837562
t34
Hmmpf
>Foggy, landfill tier, un-heated aim sights
>No radios, hence using different coloured flags to communicate with other tanks in 20th cen, anno domini (lmaooo)
>Teething transmission flaws, unreliable and breakdown prone
>Engine overheats
>Ammunition stowage vulnerable to internal fires
>God awful ergonomics
>Panels held together using screws, running on hopes and dreams

>>17837576
>>17837579
>>17837582
see>>17837573
also pic related

>>17837573
>That's why Daimler tried to copy superior Soviet engineering.
notice how the VK 3002 has a commander cupola
notice how the VK 3002 has an improved main gun
notice how the VK 3002 has an extra side hatch for the driver

i'd argue you pretty much gave proof for
>>17837555
point of
> quality vs quantity

>>17837584
> b-but Daimler tried to copy the T-34
see >>17837588

also the VK 30.01 is from 1941/42
you're acting like Daimler trying to copy the T-34 is the end of it (picrel)

>>17837588
>the newer model is being improved
shocking

>>17837657
> > german blueprint from 1941 has three-man turret, cupola, muzzle-brake, additional escape hatches
> > duuude ofc it's more advanced, german one was newer

> meanwhile T-34 from 1943 has no three-man turret, commander cupola only on late production versions, never got to have an extra hatch, never got to have a muzzle brake

> proceed to check T-34/85
> finally learned from the germans that three-man turret is the way to go
> also adapted a commander cupola (hot garbage compared to german ones thoughbeit since it was fixed in place and thus didn't allow for 360 vision)
> still no extra escape hatches

>>17837582
>>17837576
and that's the tank as it existed on the blueprint. When you look at how the Soviets actually managed to produce so many of them so quickly it's because they skipped building about half the tank, and dropped any pretense of caring about build quality with the rest of them to cut costs and construction times. The reason that the T34 has such a great reputation post-war is that "The Soviets had super-tanks, and that's why we lost so hard" was a nice face saving move for the German military during and after the war, and that Russia got a lot of propaganda material out of those claims.

>>17837511 (OP)
>The Soviet Union built better tanks than Nazi Germany.
By the time the Soviets stopped trying to become an Axis power and got invaded? Sure, but German tanks were largely a meme by that point anyway. Also today Russia is on the same level of naval power as Haiti.

>>17837687
Anon its a pimped T-34. Mustache man rejected it exactly because of it.

>>17837769
yes, because a T-34 2.0 just wasn't good enough
the point about
>>17837555
> quality vs quantity
still stands though
the
> pipmed T-34
is obviously of much higher quality

>>17837764
T-34's good reputation is not post war.

Tanks didn't even exist until 1970.

>>17837775
Over the last 80 years? Yes it was. You had everything from memes to (theoretically) serious documentaries and academic papers describing it as some kind of sci-fi super tank.
>DUDE!
>SLOPED ARMOR MADE IT IMMUNUE TO ALL GERMAN AT GUNS MY DUDE!!!!
>DUDE! 88MM SHELLS JUST BOUNCE OFF LOL!!!!!
>76.2MM BEST SHELL EVER!!!!!!!!
>UNCOUNTABLE ARMORED HORDES OVERRUNNING THE GERMAN DEFENCES DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>ZOMFG IT'S JUST SO COOOOOOOL!!!!!!

>>17837790
Just chill dude we are discussing tanks. Fascism is lost on all fronts so there is no need to be upset.

>>17837795
> Fascism is lost on all fronts
that cant be
I was told by leftist media that literally everyone was fascist up until like 20 years ago
and that as of today our biggest threat to society are facist groups

>>17837800
>Ben Shapiro told me everything about these goddamn leftist

>>17837807
> Ben Shapiro
meds

>>17837795
>Doesn't suck the USSR's dick
>Must be some kind of fascist
Wow, they broke your brain completely, didn't they.

>>17837783

FACT.