what's the /his/torical consensus on Dorian Greeks?

>>17838096 (OP)
Genetically speaking were mostly hellenized pelasgians.

>>17838115
Pelasgians were from Germany.

>>17838115
Genetically speaking they were mostly hellenes.
Hellens = mycenaean onwards.
Logkas is not hellenic. It's like saying Romans are Corded ware complex. It's completely idiotic.

>>17838096 (OP)
What makes you think this sample is Doric? And how exactly did you determine what is Doric? You followed a description of the tomb where it was found and it was described as having characteristics of culture X that are associated with the Dorians? According to the Greeks, the Spartans were descendants of the Dorians, so we even have studies with samples from Spartan Laconia, we can say what the Dorians were like.

They worshipped demons and were rightfully smited by God.

>>17838142
This sample is from a greek colony founded by Dorians, i.e chersonesus. So it's the exactly same reasoning on your sparta = dorian.

>>17838141
>It's completely idiotic
The same with your post, tard
Hellenic=greek
Greek=proto greeks(logkas)+Pelasgians.
Logkas+Peloponnese_N (or Minoan)=greek
Fucking dumb, calling logkas as "non greek" is to deny the Greek language itself, damn it

>>17838150
So... Semites are ethiopians because ethiopians are half semitic?

>>17838146
There's no confirmation that it's Doric, so this thread is irrelevant. If it were a sample, I don't know, Gaul in an Etruscan colony, you'd be at full steam proving how idiotic it would be to say that it was a native Etruscan.

Although they were probably no different from the rest of the Greeks, we shouldn't play guessing games like faggots. I'll take this thread seriously with a sample cataloged as such or that is from Sparta.

>muh logkas
>random women buried in a cave
mfw

Isn't that KER1 or something? That greek girl with elongated skull? That's my closest ancient match in PCA

>>17838156
There are Laconian samples. They don't differ too much from this one.

>>17838162
This sample is from a study in north europe. There is this iron age outlier near Kherson, which in the past was a greek colony. I can't remember if it was a male or a female.

>>17838159
Aren't you forgetting something?

>>17838156
it's a sample from a dorian greek colony with mycenean derived ancestry, there's no guessing game

>>17838155
Are you acting dumb or did you go to college for this? But I'll play along with you, mentally retarded.
So how can you even identify a people, retard? There's been an influx of Caucasians into Greece since the Neolithic period. The Minoans even had Caucasian haplos. So I ask the same question you asked me.
Caucasians are Europeans because minoans are half Caucasian?
And we can joke about this every day.
So... are the English Celts because they're half Celtic?
So... are Brazilians European because they're up to 70% European?
So... are Corded Ware EEF because they're half GAC?
Dude, Logkas were the proto-Greeks. There's no "Greeks" before Logkas, just as there's no PIE without CHG or English without Germanic and Celtic.

>>17838159
Yes, the proto-Greeks
nobody said they wouldn't cluster with northern Greeks. But it's interesting to know they had a high steppe.

>>17838170
Logkas was proto-greek, not greek itself.
This is again, like saying Corded ware were romans.
No romans were italics that had a certain % of corded ware ancestry.

>>17838165
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1719880115

>>17838167
>colony
For this to make sense, you have to prove to me that
1. either they exterminated the entire population of their colonies
2. and if the answer is that they didn't exterminate these colonies, how do you differentiate between samples of citizens and colonists, like samples from Himera, for example?
But it turns out you can't do either, and living in a colony founded by people X or Y isn't the same as being part of the same people who founded it. The samples from Sicily are clear examples; they're not Greek just because they were in a Greek colony. We actually have something interesting in the southern parts of Italy: an individual who was probably from the Balkans.

Samples from ethnically locals dorics (whatever that means) are a better choice. Sparta, for example, is a better option. If I had to predict something, I'd say they resembled the Macedonian populations, because Greek literature describes them as barbarians. But of course, assimilation may have left things the same.
>>17838159
were even used by Lazaridis to model the Greeks, I don't know what the problem is here?

>>17838174
Haha, I loved that you backtracked, retard.
>They were proto-Greeks
>But at the same time, they weren't Greeks.
You didn't understand when I said that "being Greek" occurred later, after the introduction of Logkas with "Pelasgians" (a false term, by the way).
The prefix "proto-" means first, initial, original, or primitive. It indicates something that is the oldest form, the basis, or the beginning of someone. It makes no logical or even etymological sense to say that the proto-Greeks weren't Greeks.

The Mycenaeans formed when the progenitors of Ionians and Aeolians migrated from the proto-Greek urheimat and assimilated local Neolithic populations of southern Greece. It's over, and I won't say it again.

Those who remained in the proto-Greek homeland (progenitors of Dorians, Macedonians, and Epirotes) retained the pre-Mycenaean Greek profile (probably similar to Logkas).
The dilution of Greek ancestry in favor of "Pelasgians" does not necessarily refute this.
Its over

>>17838174
Kek You are ignorant in these matters, you should shut up and let the humans speak, headless beast

>>17838189
>Pelasgians" (a false term, by the way).
Why? Dumb

>>17838195
Is this your dumb friend's defense? Or is this you? Let me dine on the anons here again. It turns out that "Pelasgians" was a very banal and broad term used by the Greeks to designate, quote:
>Aegean aborigines
Period. Just like that. They weren't a specific type of people, so much so that we don't even have a "Pelasgian language" or "Pelasgian culture" The quote you guys love to cite about the Athenians being Pelasgians comes from a context about the Greeks being the legitimate sons of the land, heirs, natives of the place. Especially in opposition to non-Greeks. Now, whether this really means an open declaration that they were Peloponnese or (insert any Neolithic Greek culture here) I don't know, but that even with such a low steppe, they decided to change their language and belief system is incredible.

Is this correct?

>>17838223
I don't know. Gentinker's tool is garbage, someone should use the HIrisPlex-S or that retarded Russian's tool for better results according to Lazaridis's SNP table, blond hair didn't magically appear in Europe after the existence of the Norse, they already had it in the Neolithic, so it's kind of fds although the Mycenaean and Minoan samples are all "dark", just like my first 42-year-old girlfriend

>>17838227
Andrei's tool is strange, it says that Neanderthals were black, like Bantu, and that Arabs were lighter than Mycenaeans, and that WHG was red-haired and had green eyes, or Hezel, besides him, if he thinks he's the best.

>>17838227
>HIrisPlex-S
Trash
I'm white but I got "intermediate" results and my eyes are considered brown even though I have honey green eyes. Trash, not accurate.
>>17838229
Its the best tool, and the guy is so funny and smart to watch chad andrei

>>17838238
Hello andrei

>>17838238
Andrei coimaski?

remembering that Andrei has already come here to try to gain more users for his advertising, he is among us

>>17838150
>two random whores in a cave
>greek

>>17838238
Your eyes are probably mostly brown with intermediate that makes it greenish. Your skin is probably mostly intermediate with significant pale, this combo is common among north Europeans.

>>17838096 (OP)
too late

proto greeks were logkas-like nordics

>>17838150
>>17838159
>>17838171
>>17838184
>>17838491
I don't understand what's the point in obsessing over Logkas. It's like nordcucks are cornered and looking for any small thing they can. Yes, they might or might've not contributed to Mycenaean genetics, but we have actual Mycenaean genomes from the same time period and later. Steppe has to enter the Greek genome in one point or another of course, but it's still a small amount.

>>17838538
>norducucks
Not reading the rest

>>17838538
They are so desperate to claim other cultures because their own was illiteracy, mudhuts and human sacrifices for millennia after the Greeks and Romans were already writing great literature and building great things. It stems from their inferiority complex

>>17838538
>random shitty g25 model
they are closer to northern Greeks
the idiot is ready to be embarrassed again? Is that it? In an idiotic post that lives on stupid adjectives, when you decide to say something like a civilized person, these guys are here
>they might or might've not contributed to Mycenaean genetics
contribute because they are the source of steppe in Greece, and compared to the 20% Mycenaean average, 40% is quite high.
it is already accepted by geneticists that Proto-Greek likely came from Yamnaya/Catacomb culture. The Logkas samples, specifically (Log4, a female) were located in the North of Greece near the Pindis Mountains.
>but we have actual Mycenaean genomes from the same time period and later
idiot, there were no pre-Logka Mycenaeans. simply like that. Logkas are the proto-Greeks, and the Mycenaeans were a mixture of Logkas and pre-Logkas peoples, there is no pre-Logkas Mycenaean profile, no steppe in Minoans
>Steppe has to enter the Greek genome in one point or another of course,
So yeah, there's no problem here.
>but it's still a small amount.
40% compared to 20% is not a "small" amount. We have known the territory of the proto-Greeks for a century without anyone questioning it. Logkas falls well within this territory.

Even IF Logkas wasn’t proto-Greek, proto-Greek speakers wouldn’t be any differen

>>17838569
>they
who? Who are "they" here?
I'm not even Nordic, you retard. Your argument was basically ad hominem and the projection of someone with a mind enslaved by Xiiter. You're the same guy, by the way.

>>17838584
I forgot the pic
So yeah, its over

>>17838584
>>17838538
in qpAdm we can have up to 45% steppe, almost 50%, which is definitely not low as troon above tries to make it seem
>>17838538
There's no greek identity in Neolithic times, minoans contributed, but weren't the vetor.
>>17838569
Troon, i m greek. So?

>>17838189
the Mycenaeans are a mix between high steppe derived proto-Greeks and no steppe derived pre-Greeks.
the precursors of logkas were probably a yamnaya from Bulgaria, When Logkas was there (2000BC) the Proto-Greeks were in Bulgaria

Proto-Greeks were Logkas-like. Mycenaeans were diluted proto-Greeks with more than 3/4ths pre-Greek ancestry
due to small numbers

>>17838592
The first study that provided the samples says about "50% steppe", I don't know how they arrived at this model using specific sources, the proxies weren't explained for this, playing with the G25 and the few times I used qpAdm, I got no more than 43% for logkas, however. But it's a high steppe

>>17838599
>proto-greeks were modern northern greek-like and unrelated to the snownegro
why is this board spazzing out again? Back to classical dorians OP

>>17838096 (OP)
That's not a "doric", stop lying and making this thread every month
>>17838538
>>17838599
Genetics of Bronze Age Greeks is simple, amateurs
The earliest Indo-European speakers to arrive in mainland Greece had high levels of steppe ancestry, around 45%. This declined to sub-25% after mixing with natives, including Greek islanders (who had increased CHG ancestry via Copper Age Anatolians. End of the history
>>17838223
These samples are of good quality, could they do an analysis of specific SNPs?

>>17838614
After being refuted 3 times today, are you ready to shut up, you asthmatic? Using ad hominems didn't save you, especially when it came to bashing Nordic scarecrows that no one even mentioned.
>thread
An irrelevant, useless, and meaningless thread. As already explained, these samples are probably not Dorians, get lost, sameflag

>>17838584
>>17838592
>>17838618
So your cope is:
>Greeks were high steppe at one point then they quickly mixed and became low steppe}
Kid, we have Mycenaean elite samples. It's not any different from their average.

Also, this is what Ionians were like lol.

>>17838618
This loser basically says they were Dorians based solely on the place being a Greek colony, but the problems with this statement have already been explained in this thread.
And now, there's the other schizophrenic here whose wife probably cheated on some Norseman or was bullied by Norsemen using this as a personal attack.

>>17838618
>That's not a "doric"
>>17838184
>>17838156
>There's no confirmation that it's Doric
LMAOing at you losers when more samples are out and you are shown to be fools once again

>>17838623
You didn't even bother to read or even understand what was said.
You've been refuted, my dear ass. Your points have been answered, and here you posted samples unrelated to the conversation. I accept your concession.
It's over.
trolling or stupidity? monkey, do you understand that there are no Mycenaean Greeks without logkas? Dont talk to me again

>>17838630
Yes, he is correct. This is not confirmed as such, and his argument is that it was in a colony supposedly founded by Dorians (we don't know what their profile was like, and certainly samples from Greek colonies, which were multi-ethnic, wouldn't be good), and it has already been explored here before>>17838184

>>17838635
And what's the point in even talking about Logkas in this context? They are not actual Greeks, they are only used as proxies for Mycenaean ancestry. And sorry, they weren't kangz.
>the elite Mycenaean individual from the royal tomb of Pesteria did not differ genetically from other Mycenaean individuals buried in common graves

>>17838630
yes, it is not a Doric, there are no samples with this name or taken from a site archaeologically related to them, stop lying to your audience with Down syndrome

>>17838645
Again
>don't talk to me
Its over, not reading anything more
Your ignorance and lack of basic interpretation, in addition to the incessant and incorrect use of g25, says it all.
You don't understand genetics, much less "Greeks" as an abstract.

>>17838645
>ad hominem

>>17838592
>I'm greek

Yeah, in your mind, Cletus. And your trailer park in Oklahoma is your greek temple

remembering that the OP mule didn't have the courage to arrive if his premise has a historical basis
>The founding of Halicarnassus is debated among various traditions
>>Herodotus wrote his Histories in the Ionian dialect, in spite of being born in a Dorian settlement. According to the Suda, Herodotus learned the Ionian dialect as a boy living on the island of Samos, to which he had fled with his family from the oppressions of Lygdamis, tyrant of Halicarnassus and grandson of Artemisia. Panyassis, the epic poet related to Herodotus, is reported to have taken part in a failed uprising.
All from Wikipedia
>The first settlers were originally Dorians from the Peloponnese, but this was soon forgotten.

>>17838673
Yes, the retard used the most multi-faceted colony imaginable.
The Greeks were no different from the Antoines since the Bronze Age in any way.

>>17838650
I already know the only reason you keep bringing up Logkas is due to your faint hope that they were the high steppe elites ruling over low steppe commoners, but it's already shown to not be the case in previous studies. Stop hiding behind your facade.
>the elite Mycenaean individual from the royal tomb of Pesteria did not differ genetically from other Mycenaean individuals buried in common graves

>>17838707
nta but I hink Logkas was part of the proto-Greek population but there's a missing centuries long step that led from Logkas to the higher steppe later Mycenaeans.

>>17838673
Furthermore, things get worse when the samples he used, from the same place, are quite varied, confirming my argument. Some are discrepant. See CGG021474.

>>17838623
Almost definitely that's what happened. Greeks (the people who spoke Greek) entered through the Balkans and had higher steppe levels than later Greek Greeks (Mycenaeans, who were largely culturally indebted to earlier non-Greek speaking native cultures) who emerged after centuries long commingling and consolidation.

>>17838730
And the centuries long part is the reason why there's no reason to expect high steppe elite samples post-1700BC. The high steppe elite samples will be from earlier eras and not look particularly elite compared to later Mycenaeans.

Remember seeing a history channel like doc about 10 years ago that had Germanic like Horse Aryans entering Greece and establishing dominance there over Minoans. If this is what people are arguing about while ALSO using g25, I've got NO idea how to save you from this demonic down syndrome contemplation. God have mercy on you.

>>17838729
even the haplos of this sample make it difficult to be a "Doric Greek" the guy had E1b1b1a1b1a, but the OP won't say that.

>>17838745
Dumb LARPing as Nordicist after being btfo
Sameflag

>>17838096 (OP)
the dorians were nordic like the logkas

>>17838096 (OP)
nice, so this is what the original greeks looked like

>>17838096 (OP)
>Though most of the Dorians settled in the Peloponnese, they also settled on Rhodes and Sicily and in what is now Southern Italy. In Asia Minor existed the Dorian Hexapolis (the six great Dorian cities): Halikarnassos (Halicarnassus) and Knidos (Cnidus) in Asia Minor, Kos, and Lindos, Kameiros, and Ialyssos on the island of Rhodes. The six cities would later become rivals with the Ionian cities of Asia Minor. The Dorians also settled Crete. The origin traditions remained strong into classical times: Thucydides saw the Peloponnesian War in part as "Ionians fighting against Dorians" and reported the tradition that the Syracusans in Sicily were of Dorian descent. Other such "Dorian" colonies, originally from Corinth, Megara, and the Dorian islands, dotted the southern coasts of Sicily from Syracuse to Selinus. Also Taras was a Spartan colony

>The Doric dialect was spoken in northwest Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete, southwest Asia Minor, the southernmost islands of the Aegean Sea, and the various Dorian colonies of Magna Graecia in Southern Italy and Sicily. After the classical period, it was mainly replaced by the Attic dialect upon which the Koine or "common" Greek language of the Hellenistic period was based

>>17839139
>It is the ancient Greeks who had the biggest impact on the genetic make-up of southern Italy. From the 8th century BCE the Greeks set up colonies all along the coasts of Campania, Calabria, Basilicata, southern Apulia, and Sicily (except the western tip) in what would become known as Magna Graecia. Their genetic signature are essentially haplogroups J2 (18-30%) and E1b1b (15-25%), but the ancient Greeks also carried some R1b-M269/L23 (5-10%), G2a (3-8%), T (1-6%), I2a1b (1-5%), R1a (1-3%), and J1 (1-2%). It is very clear on the haplogroup maps that the areas in central and southern Italy furthest from the coast and from ancient Greek colonies, such as Abruzzo, Molise and the southern Apennines correspond to the highest percentages of haplogroups G2a, J1 and T in Italy, but also the lowest frequency of E1b1b and J2 in the southern half of Italy. There is no better way to contrast the Neolithic population of Italy with the ancient Greek colonists

>In their admixture ratios, Italians are similar to other Southern Europeans of the Mediterranean region, and that is being of primarily Neolithic Early European Farmer ancestry, along with smaller, but still significant, amounts of Mesolithic Western Hunter-Gatherer, Bronze Age Steppe pastoralist (Indo-European speakers) and Chalcolithic or Bronze Age Iranian/Caucasus-related ancestry. According to multiple genome-wide studies, Southern Italians are closest to modern Greeks, while Northern Italians are closest to the Spaniards, the Portuguese, and the Southern French. There is Bronze/Iron Age Middle Eastern and Western Asian admixture in Italy, with a much lower incidence in Northern Italy compared with Central Italy and Southern Italy. North African admixture is also found in Southern Italy with the highest incidence being in the islands of Sicily and Sardinia

>>17839144
>The E-V13 clade is equivalent to the "alpha cluster" of E-M78 reported in Cruciani et al. (2004), and was first defined by the SNP V13 in Cruciani et al. (2006). Another SNP is known for this clade, V36, reported in Cruciani et al. (2007). All known positive tests for V13 are also positive for V36. So E-V13 is currently considered "phylogenetically equivalent" to E-V36

>"Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%)." —Cruciani et al. (2007)

>Within Europe, E-V13 is especially common in the Balkans and some parts of Italy. In different studies, particularly high frequencies have been observed in Kosovo Albanians (45.6%), Macedonian Albanians (34.4%), Albanians (32.29%), and in some parts of Greece (ca. 35%)

>More generally, high frequencies have also been found in other areas of Greece, and amongst Bulgarians, Romanians, Macedonians and Serbs

>Within Italy, frequencies tend to be higher in Southern Italy, with particularly high results sometimes seen in particular areas; for example, in Santa Ninfa and Piazza Armerina in Sicily. High frequencies appear to exist also in some northern areas for example around Venice, Genoa and Rimini, as well as on the island of Corsica and the region of Provence in south France, and is also found in scattered and small amounts in Libyan Jews and Egypt, but this is most likely a result of migration from Europe or the Near East

>>17839070
That's a Scythian. Also proves Slavshits have Asian admixture since Scythians were Asian admixed.

>>17838748
Common in areas inhabited by Dorians (and other NW Greeks) in ancient times (Peloponnese, Epirus, Western Macedonia, parts of Central Greece, Southern Albania, parts of Southern Italy)
>>17838623
Ionian generally refers to the Archaic-Classical era, those samples are more recent (not saying that they must have been significantly different)

>>17839169
It was multiracial
In the same area, we have a roast with almost 50% steppe. Treating this place as the epicenter of Dorians is just a cope, as By the way, I researched the sample you used and, as the other anon said, I found no indication that it was elite. If they were Doricos, they must be elite.

>>17839165
Scythians did NOT mix with their Slavic and Germanic slaves. There is no Scythian or Saka or Sarmatian admixture in Germanics or Slavics.

>>17839070
According to OP, this place was basically a
>le doric colony, dudee
Therefore, since no one has shown a consistent and accurate definition of what a Doric is or how we differentiate them from the natives, everything is open to being Dorico in this pathetic thread.
we wuz
>>17839066
Logkas had more steppe than Mycenaean, but they weren't nordoids like you, cope and seethe

>>17839165
There is no such thing as "Scythian" any more than there are men who menstruate. "Scythian" were the Latins of the ancient world. I can literally show you more than 10 samples cataloged as "Scythians," and they will all be literally everything you can imagine. We have Nordic, Italian, Greek, Chinese Scythians, Hapas, Churkas, Pamiris, etc., etc. There is no such thing as Scythian. And no, there is no Iranian ancestry in the Slavs.

>>17838748
>>17839169
Dumbass doesn't realize E1b has to enter the Greek genepool at one point or the other. It's the predominant modern Greek haplogroup after all.
>>17839271
>Therefore, since no one has shown a consistent and accurate definition of what a Doric is or how we differentiate them from the natives, everything is open to being Dorico in this pathetic thread
Regardless of whether the sample is a 'Dorian' or not it's obviously a Greek.
>is from a Greek colony
>clusters with Aegean Greeks and South Italians (consistent with the Mycenaean pattern)
>it's not a Greek!!
You better accept it is already, because other samples are going to be much more 'shitskin' than this according to what Davidski said (that Classical Greeks were like Mycenaeans but with additional Anatolian input).

>>17839288
This haplogroup isn't even the dominant one, you fucking retard. Your thread is the worst, in fact, until you proved you were a Doric... so far nothing
>whether the sample is a 'Dorian
With that, you assume your concession here and reaffirm what I and other anons have said:
This sample is not identified and Doric is just a fantasy of your evil mind based on honest anon, keep it up and you will go far in life.
>shitskin
>Davidski
Projecting your insecurities as a fat 30-year-old woman
>muh nordic
I m ITALIAN, you cry baby loser

>>17839288
>that Classical Greeks were like Mycenaeans but with additional Anatolian input
So like the Roman-era samples?

>>17839305
I'm not OP, but this is why he said it was a 'Dorian':
>In the 5th century BC, Dorians from Heraclea Pontica on the Black Sea coast of Asia Minor founded the sea port of Chersonesos in southwestern Crimea (outside modern Sevastopol). It was a site with good deep-water harbors located at the edge of the territory of the indigenous Taurians

>>17839288
Cope

Why are we dedicating an entire thread to demon worshippers? Let's turn it towards Christ.

>>17839070
That's a Taurian.

>>17838115
>>17838096 (OP)
>Genetically speaking were mostly hellenized pelasgians.
The other way around.
The pelasgians were the local neolithic farmers, and the Dorians (and other Greeks) were the Indo-Europeans, who brought the Greek language (not alphabet) to the peninsula.

Here's a good thread on it:

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17717684

>>17838096 (OP)
>>17840363
Here's a PCA comparing Classical Greeks with modern Greeks and Italians.
They were the most similar to modern Lombardians, which is caused by the fast that later, they received some Near Eastern admixture, which shifted them away.

>>17840417
That's a daunian sample. We've always know the pre slavic balkans were basically Italy.
Alexander came from greek macedonia (the region) not macedonia the country, lol
Furthermore this is a random sample, the only true macedonian royal sample, that isn't contaminated, clusters with central italians. Central italians, as you can see, are intermediate between southern and northern ones genetically

>>17840417
retard

>>17840363
Historical Greeks were mostly anatolian farmers with only 15% yamnaya dna and mostly J2 haplogroups.

>>17840563
the original greeks were more like this >>17839070

>>17840587
Stop pushing this bullshit everywhere, nobody cares.

>>17838096 (OP)
The genetic information (albeit a lot of this would have been taken from the classical and hellenistic periods) seems to imply there was barely, if any, difference between them and the Ionians. Certainly there was a great degree of intermarriage.

>>17840455
>That's a daunian sample.
Doubt it. The Ordona_Danuian sample clusters with the Romans and Etruscans, and has more WHG admixture, and this acedonian one doesn't have any.
And all data shows that the WHG admixture was always much higher in Italy than in Greece, where it's virtually non-existent.
And since the WHGs were the first people to populate Europe, that basically dismantles your claim.
>We've always know the pre slavic balkans were basically Italy.
Nonsense. No data shows it.

>>17840455
Here you have a PCA chart where the genetic evolution of Spain, Italy and Greece is shown.
They've always been somewhat separate.

the greek government destroyed the elite samples, that were obviously much more nordic than the average peasant

>>17840646
You forgot your sarcasm /s bro

>>17840587
No that's local barbarian.

>>17840783
strangely, both that sample and the sample OP posted are e-v13 and so are all the male samples from IA kherson, i doubt they have anything to do with greeks
i think the ones that look similar to greeks are actually thracians, that had a similar autosomal profile

>>17840417
north macedonia is not even greek land proper, that even these samples are so southern shifted should be revealing
>>17840623
again cherrypick galore with the northernmost samples, the area has been stable around 25% steppe for 3000 years

>>17838096 (OP)
a thracian

>>17840802
>north macedonia is not even greek land proper
And who populated that area during the Classical period?
This sample is from 390 BC, the Slavs came to that area almost a millenium later.

>>17838096 (OP)
why do you keep posting this thracian man

>>17840646
They destroyed them because they were Albanian genetically

>>17840919
We have a preview of classical macedonian elites from macedonia proper and they were much lower steppe, drop the copium

>>17840981
Yes, they were actually 101%shiptars

>>17841644
Jelly? The Mycenaean elite graves at argolis have the same Y-chromosomes as 25% of Albanian men today. We were Achilles and so forth.

>>17841663
Literally not how it works and focusing singularly on Y-chromosomes is retarded in general. You are essentially saying that you are both Balkaners, big deal. What did you do with said genes tonibler?

>>17840981
>Albanian genetically
...That's basically Arab.

>>17841892
Not according to Bismarck

>>17841895
Not sure what you're referencing but back then people that middle easterners were close to being white because of skeletal features. Now we know that bones don't create civilizations.

>>17841906
>He doesn't know

>>17841911
Most of the Balkans, southern Spain, and southern Italy got Arab'd. That's all you need to know, really.

>>17841035
>drop the copium
And you can drop the sample(s) you're yapping about, otherwise your "counterarguments" are just negation, nothing more.

>>17841875
Fuck your whore mother

>>17841915
Arabs never settled in the Albanian lands, you mutt

>>17841875
stole every bmw between the pyrenes and the oder river

>>17842260
That is our territory, go back to your swamp shitholes. Corded ware, bell beakers and nords are not Europeans. Russia is not Europe. Yamnaya were the first conquerors of the farmers and the farmers and yamnaya teamed up against the germ and slavshit. That is how Albanians came to be.