Normans in Sicily
>Barely any cultural/linguistic influence. Normans completely abandon French language and culture and adopt Sicilian and even Arabic. Intermarry with Italian nobility. Live in total fear of terroni bvlls and be sporadically subject to peasant revolts and violence. The peasants during the Sicilian Vespers finally kill off the Angevin nobility and give the crown of Sicily to the Aragonese. No real genetic changes besides Palermo and the surrounding towns having an elevated rate of Northern European Y haplogroups.

Normans in England
>Completely cucked and transformed Anglo-Saxon culture into something unrecognizable. Ruled over England as a segregated elite only speaking French for centuries making English into a pidgin version of French. Norman surnames and the usage of French loanwords in English are to this day associated with wealth, sophistication, and being upper class. It would be 300 years until a king of England would speak English as his native language again. French nobles and soldiers settle England, changing the genetics so thoroughly that 1/4th-1/3rd of English ancestry can be modeled as Medieval French today.

Why did this happen?

why not?

Terrone weren't cucks.

Anglo-Saxons opened up their bussy.

>>17840065 (OP)
maybe Nomrans and other Frenchmen just thought Sicily's juice wasn't worth the squeeze and was a lost cause and all decided to favor establishing themselves somewhere that was already well subjugated

>>17840065 (OP)
>making English into a pidgin version of French
You don't know what you're talking about.
>1/4th-1/3rd of English ancestry can be modeled as Medieval French today.
Even the Anglo-Saxons were only about 30-40% Germanic and their invasion of Britain was a full scale migration to the region. The French had a single sizeable migration with was nearly all elite, less than 5000 and hardly interacted with the locals.

>>17840070
Sicily was wealthier than Anglo-Saxon England and the Normans didn't leave until they got killed.

>>17840065 (OP)
> French nobles and soldiers settle England, changing the genetics so thoroughly that 1/4th-1/3rd of English ancestry can be modeled as Medieval French today.
Most of that was immigration was during the Hundred Years’ War, aka English soldiers taking home French pussy

>>17840110
what kind of cool stuff did they have in Sicily? Any cool treasure and artifacts?

>>17840065 (OP)
The norman conquest of england saw the destruction of most of the english aristocracy at hastings with the remainder destroyed in the harrowing of the north, which gave william and his followers a free hand in distributing lands to their (french) followers; the integration of england into the duchy of normandy also meant that these magnates could also draw on additional manpower from their estates back in normandy, brittany etc as required.

In contrast the normans in southern italy were at best the second sons of minor norman gentry, who only had whatever norman freebooters followed them to italy to replenish themselves - and were forced to rely on existing local networks

The French were in charge by the time of the vespers anyway

Why did the Anglo-Saxons never rebel against their French masters?

I dunno, maybe the fact that France was literally across a channel helped as opposed to an extremely long boat trip or an extremely perilous overland trek

>>17840175
I beleive there was a peasants revolt

>>17840182
400 years later?

>>17840175
>french
They were their own thing
Calling them french would be like calling mexicans spanish

>>17840204
Cope

>>17840175
Why did the Gauls never rebel against their Frankish or Norman masters?

>>17840065 (OP)
It's pretty simple, the Normans and later Angevins retained plenty of much more developed land in France. England was at this stage very sparsely populated compared to continental Europe, the institutions were barely above tribal level, and the country had until very recently by the time of the Normans been occupied by Scandinavians as part of Cnut's empire.

People like to project the concept of nationalism backwards in history for some reason, as if William, who was directly descended from a great grandfather who had sacked Paris with a Norse army and forced the king to grant him a significant portion of his kingdom and upon gaining the kingdom of England immediately asserted his independence, was some kind of French patriot. All of the contemporary sources refer to the Normans as such and not 'French', which was the ethnonym of the German people who conquered Gaul that the residents took the names of. Edward the Confessor had no children and chose William, a relation of his, as heir for political reasons regardless of the threat of a military coup from the house of Wessex.

>>17840234
>the institutions were barely above tribal level
William more or less left the administrative system of shires, hundreds, and hidages untouched. Same with the shire/hundred courts and much pre-Conquest English law.

Cnut's conquest was hardly a reversion/regression to more primitive institutions either.

>>17840234
Edward named Harold his heir upon his death in 1066.

>>17840204
They were only their own thing 200+ years later.

>>17840065 (OP)
roman/latin/greek culture was always seen as superior

>>17840065 (OP)
The TRVKE is that Germanic nations have been always more submissive. Look at Napoleonic invasions of Europe, all the Germanic areas remained submissive to the French tyranny. It was the Spaniards and the Russians the ones who fought until the last standing man.

>>17840665
shitalian "culture" has nothing to do with the Latins, it's just mutted up arabo-lombard aping of Rome. The most authentic Latin culture in the following period was in parts of Spain and Romania.

>>17840668
sicilian poetry inspired renaissance poetry in tuscany. Spain produced nothing of value until the XV century lmao

>>17840667
That's not true. In fact, a massive Prussian contingent including Clausewitz himself served in the German-Russian legion and undertook the vanguard actions when the French were retreating from Moscow.

>>17840673
>t. terrone/wannabe terrone mutt in new york wewuzzing about fucking poetry while Spain conquered the world

>>17840668
>>17840673
>>17840680
Spain and italy are brother nations.

>>17840676
>Prussian
baltoslavs speaking german

>>17840065 (OP)
the english are a servile racial stock, it's quite clear

>>17840676
It's a detail, nothing comparable to the resistance offered by Spain and Russia.
>>17840668
>>17840673
>>17840680
Anon arguing with himself to start shit.

>>17840065 (OP)
>changing the genetics so thoroughly that 1/4th-1/3rd of English ancestry can be modeled as Medieval French today.
Source or it didn't happen.

>>17840687
Prussians were less Eastern shifted than modern Eastern Germans.

>>17840216
>Why did the Gauls never rebel against their Frankish or Norman masters?
What were the genetic differences between them?

>Normans in Sicily
>>Barely any cultural/linguistic influence. Normans completely abandon French language and culture and adopt Sicilian and even Arabic. Intermarry with Italian nobility. Live in total fear of terroni bvlls and be sporadically subject to peasant revolts and violence. The peasants during the Sicilian Vespers finally kill off the Angevin nobility and give the crown of Sicily to the Aragonese. No real genetic changes besides Palermo and the surrounding towns having an elevated rate of Northern European Y haplogroups.
>Normans in England
>>Completely cucked and transformed Anglo-Saxon culture into something unrecognizable. Ruled over England as a segregated elite only speaking French for centuries making English into a pidgin version of French. Norman surnames and the usage of French loanwords in English are to this day associated with wealth, sophistication, and being upper class. It would be 300 years until a king of England would speak English as his native language again. French nobles and soldiers settle England, changing the genetics so thoroughly that 1/4th-1/3rd of English ancestry can be modeled as Medieval French today.
>Why did this happen?

>>17840065 (OP)
>Live in total fear of terroni bvlls
How insanely deluded one must be to type such nonsense? If they were in fear of them, they wouldn't conquer and rape them you utter moron. Those "bulls" as you call them were indeed so feared that they were first dominated by Greeks, then by Arabs, then by Normans, then by the French, then by Catalans... the list could go on and the Middle Ages ain't over yet. Terronis were the ultimate bottom bitch of the Mediterranean.

>>17840667
Franks were a Germanic race whose language was mutually intelligible with Old English

>>17841848
Can't Sage Award
Newfag Award

>>17841848
>Franks were a Germanic race whose language was mutually intelligible with Old English
I just had this thought: is the guttural "r", spoken in Germany and France, the last trace of common origin?
It would make sense - the Franks are said to be Germanic, not Latin. The language stands in the way - until we recognize, that after Julius Cesar BTFO'd the Gauls, he imposed the Latin language onto them.

And the way they say "r" might be the last trace of that common heritage.

If not - what could be the reason for the French, Germans and Danes to be the only ones to pronounce this letter in that way?

>>17840094
>less than 5000 and hardly interacted with the locals.
There were numerous marages between Anglo-Saxons and Normans in the years following the conquest, not among the highest levels true, but among their retainers and the lower nobility. We know of many figures from the following generation of mixed heritage. It's safe to say they interacted plenty.
>>17840175
They did, there were major rebellions in 1068, 1069 and 1075 (or at least the first one, the second is arguble as it also involved Normans rebelling against William), and various guerilla campaigns waged by men such as Eadric the Wild and Hereward the Wake. They just lost is all.

>>17842095
barely even qualifies as a rebellion, it was so brief

>>17842095
>1069 and 1075
These were done by Normans but agree with the rest

>>17840667
>spicjeets die in their thousands to defend one of the most incompetent royal houses in spanish history
was there ever a better race of cannon fodder in history?

>>17840065 (OP)
>kill off the Angevin nobility
German sellsword in south Italy

>>17840727
All because Dutch (Franks) and Western European groups

>>17840065 (OP)
>Norman surnames and the usage of French loanwords in English are to this day associated with wealth, sophistication, and being upper class
I reckon you're not from the UK or Ireland if you unironically believe Norman surnames are "associated with wealth, sophistication and being upper class"
Norman surnames are as common and mundane as French loan words. Sinclair, Bruce, Fitzroy, Stewart, etc. are incredibly generic family names

>>17840175
>Oh no my feudal lord who takes 1/5 of my harvest is another guy who *checks notes* will take 1/5 of my harvest anyway, aaaaaa whatever shall I do!!!
People weren't really thinking in "nationality" terms back then

>>17842712
You're conveniently leaving out the part where the French went on a rape and looting spree in England

>>17843212
They were Normans, the reason they didnt invade France instead is because they were feudal subjects of the French King

>>17843306
lol. try opening a history book, retard