Why did he hate Sparta so fucking much?

>>17857137 (OP)
Probably because of what Sparta represented, a muscular matriarchy.

>>17857137 (OP)
Who is that, Asimov? Did he?

Isaac Asimov was a very particular type of dweeb that was all over the place during the heyday of the industrial revolution who believed everything could be predicted and managed by facts and logic and data. You see the revenge of the nerds fantasy playing out in a lot of science fiction from that era, like The Time Machine and Asimov's Foundation books. The Spartans were the jocks par excellence, so of course Asimov hated them.

>>17857737
Spartans were also pro-female too, and there's nothing womeme hate more than nerds

>>17857800
I dont remember much woman hate in Asimovs books?

>>17857347
How the hell was Sparta a matriarchy? Women had no vote on public matters.

>>17857137 (OP)
>"Sparta was never really suited to the task of leading Greece. The Greeks were at home on the sea and Sparta was not. The Greeks had interests from end to end of the Mediterranean and Sparta was interested, in her heart, only in the Peloponnese. The Greeks were quick, artistic and free and Spartans were slow-moving, dull and enslaved either to each other or to the military way of life."
>"In later years, the Greeks of other city-states sometimes admired the Spartan way of life because it seemed so virtuous and seemed to lead Sparta to such military glory. However, they were wrong to do so. In art, literature, music, love of life, all that makes it worthwhile to be on the earth, Sparta contributed nothing. She had only a cruel, inhuman way of life to offer, dependent on a brutal slavery of most of her population, with only a kind of blind animal courage as a virtue and her way of life soon became more show than substance. It was her reputation that saved her for a while when her core was rotten. She seemed strong as long as she won victories but whereas other states could withstand defeats and rise again, Sparta lost her domination of Greece after a single defeat. The loss of one major battle [at Leuctra, 371 BC] was to expose her and dispose of her."

What exactly is incorrect about this analysis?

>>17858088

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppGCbh8ggUs

>>17857137 (OP)
Funny how Tolkien disliked Dune but loved his works

>>17857137 (OP)
>weird backwards aspie city-state run by dudes who spent all day buttfucking each other until retirement
>whole economy and society revolves around a precariously-retained slave caste, because work = less time for buttsex
>opted out of the Persian invasion because they were gay edgelords who wanted everyone to believed they're badass and they have no friends
>completely chimping out and trying to be Iron Age communists in a sad bid to remain relevant was their last significant historical act
>finally discovered they could build walls around their city for protection like all non-retards had been doing for 9,000+ years two generations before their sovereignty was graciously euthanized
I feel embarrassed just knowing that these "people" existed. How is it even possible not to hate them once you become aware of them? They were like the Austria-Hungary of ancient Greece, if you removed every single person of intellectual or artistic significance from the former's history.

>>17857137 (OP)
Why does he look like a monkey?

>>17859541
He was one of the humans, that's just kind of how they are most of the time.

>>17859485
Alpha. Helots til the fields so can has gay buttsegs. It required a lot of pressure to be applied to keep the helots in check and from revolt which happened. Flogged mercilessly and back to gay sex is kinda based ngl.

>>17858088
Sparta was dominated by a female deep state because wives could inherit their husbands fortune and sparta was a warrior culture where men were always dying, so over generations women became extremely wealthy and influential behind the scenes

Money is what matters, not the administrative structure of your nation

>>17857800
>the were slightly mess psychopathically misogynistic than Athens
>this means they were pro-women
No.

>>17858108
>What exactly is incorrect about this analysis?
For a start, Leuctra wasn't where Spartans were 'exposed and dispose[d of]'. They remained a significant power in Greece until at least Philip II some 40 years later who nonetheless couldn't conquer Laconia.

As for the rest -- 'art, literature, music, love of life, all that makes it worthwhile to be on the earth' -- this is an opinion made by a wealthy man (and one credibly alleged to be a sexual predator) living in the comfort of the late 20th century. The Spartans saw things differently by the needs of their time and history.

>>17859860
Spartiates were the elites of their society and literally didn't work at all besides being in the military, Helots were forced to do all agricultural and manual labor. Spartans looked down on non-military labor and considered it fit only for slaves. There was an entire social class made up of rape-babies between Spartan fathers and Helot mothers.

>>17858088
Women had leveraged their fortunes - which were traditionally left for them to administer - in order to subvert the Spartan oligarchic government and encourage the use of force against whomsoever they wished.
Sure, technically they didn't HOLD force, and therefore had no inherent rights, but they virtually did not need to because A) they had pussy, and it was and STILL IS one of the biggest motivator around, and B) any individual woman that got too big for its britches was removed in what was essentially arbitrary procedure - because women had no right or real "power" to remove, as it was - as an "isolated case", for the rest of the women carefully politicking around's amusement.

>>17861155
Why not use the Helots for their retarded wars?

>>17861394
Because they'd revolt, and the Spartans had enough of them revolting when they weren't used as a slave army.
Also it would undermine the entire point of Spartan social stratification, which is that the citizen are supposed to be warriors. Way to legitimize Spartan militarism by not waging your own war...

>>17859541
They gave him a typewriter.

>>17861155
Do you think Athenian citizens were doing agriculture and manual labour? They were renowned for their reliance on slaves.

>>17857137 (OP)
Because Sparta was fucking gay.

>>17857137 (OP)
I think it's because he was a Doric invasion denialist.

>>17859541
>inb4 anti-Semitic comme...
Now you done it.

>>17857737
>Isaac Asimov was a very particular type of dweeb that was all over the place during the heyday of the industrial revolution who believed everything could be predicted and managed by facts and logic and data
Sup.

>>17857137 (OP)
Reminder that he was a closet gay man who contracted HIV and died.

>Asimov was an official Radio Shack sponsor for some years in the 1970s-80s and often appeared in their advertisements. He was given a TRS-80 Model II computer by the company as a promotional stunt, but the 60 year old science fiction giant never quite embraced the computer age or found that it was superior to his trusty Royal portable typewriter. Asimov preferred to type out documents and print them immediately without saving them to a floppy disk, something he was unable to wrap his head around.[3]

>>17863315
boomers do be like that though

>>17861384
Women are the most irrelevant people historiographically

>>17858088
This is like asking how capitalists could run America because “bro the workers have way more voted than capitalists”

>>17858108
Firstly the Spartan citizenry weren’t enslaved to anything. They trained often true however they spent most of their time hunting and riding or learning.
The Spartan martial ethos and discipline largely came from its youth upbringing for both male and female. After becoming a full citizen Spartans were free to do whatever, including extensive travel.
Sparta’s strength was never actually broken. No city state resisted Macedon. No city state resisted Rome. The Spartans of the 1st century were just as strong as the Spartans of the 5th century. Whoever their relative power, RELATIVE power, has declined. This is not a true decline as much as it is a failure to expand. But the same was true of Athens.
The mode of life of the city state had diminished, without the extensive confederation system of the domineering Romans or the far reaching tributary system of Persia or the Barbarian tribes, the city states had a hard limit on what they could do militarily and economically.

This same problem occurred 1500 years later in Italy where their city states were lb for lb uncontested world heavy weight champions. However their inability to unify meant they were being overwhelmed by larger modes of organization such as the National/Linguistic body (France, Brandenburg, Poland, England) which saw cities that individually couldn’t hold a candle to an Italian village were when unified capable of overtaking all of Italy.

So too with the Greeks.
It’s really just a Medbug curse.
Iberians managed to dodge this somehow, likely because they have a unified interior.
But the Central Med coastal city states, probably due to the mobility of the sea, never formed a cohesive identity to go beyond the city state level.

Unironically it wasn’t until racial politics gripped the Balkans during the ottoman wars the Greeks fully unified as a people rather than city states (classical) or administrative zones (Byzantine)

>>17861155
The rape babies weren’t living in the city.
They probably weren’t rape babies either. As we know it became a debate over whether or not Spartan paternity/maternity was grounds for being born free.

>>17857137 (OP)
Because they really were a shit tier retarded failure of a culture. Nazis love them of course because all they do is worship retarded failures.

>>17857737
>heyday of the industrial revolution who believed everything could be predicted and managed by facts and logic and data
>>17858290
>Funny how Tolkien disliked Dune but loved his works
You can read Frank Herbert's Dune as an argument with Asimov because the whole theme of the book is everyone's plans going haywire due to an unseen variable. But yes Asimov was very into a kind of High Modernist rationalism. Very 40s/50s. Zamyatin was ahead of his time by writing a dystopian novel based on this philosophy in the 1920s:
https://youtu.be/cQsBgXuaNjA

>>17863244
>Sup.
Also him yes.

>>17863711
>>17863244
you must understand that that generation was shaped by a world war into seeing everything as a huge machine that could be perfectly tuned and leave no elements to chance.

>>17863244
If he had access to pivot tables he would've unironically won the Vietnam War in a matter of months 2bh

Maybe Sparta did suck, but we got Taras out of it so it wasn't all bad.