The only things the Romans excelled at were politics and military conquests, both of which were messy and degenerate to begin with. The Greeks were the true producers of culture, science, art, and philosophy. We always talk about Germoids larping as Romans, but 90% of things about the Romans were either Greek or Etruscan larp.

Even almost all of the intellectuals in Rome were Greeks. Yes Italic people were great at war and empire, not so much culture, inventions, ideas.

Realize? I always knew that.

>>17858099 (OP)
Peak of Rome > Peak of Greece
The average of Rome < The average of Greece.
Greeks are also a more ancient civilization.

>>17858099 (OP)
We always talk about le dark ages and how the germoids/christcucks caused that, but it actually began when rome took over greece, and only got worse overtime
the remnants of rome lived on after it fell, but all of greece was lost

The Renaissance recovered what was lost of ancient Greece

>>17858114
Tuscans master race.

>>17858099 (OP)
When it dawned to me that Rome retarded the sciences three times in a row.

First by the Romans themselves being dumb asses and not giving a fuck about science.
Then by culturally turning the Greek into Romans.
And finally by the Roman Catholic church's conflict with the Greek church retarding the transmission of surviving greek sciences.

>>17858099 (OP)
Always. True. I would also add Roman Law...., although its codifiers were from the Eastern Provinces, which gave Spengler reason to consider it a product rather of the Middle Eastern civilization as applied to Rome.
The Romans, until the end of their days, bore the stamp of some kind of savagery and unculturedness. As if the entire ancient culture was only a trophy for them. But they scaled up and preserved many of the Greeks' achievements.

>>17858099 (OP)
The Romans poisoned themselves by storing and boiling grape juice and wine in lead pots, and they used it as a sweeter (sugar of lead)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate

>>17858099 (OP)
It do be like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHfKLRHT81Q

>>17858114
The 10th century historian Masʿudi blamed the Christianization of Roman Greece:
>The sciences were financially supported, honoured everywhere, universally pursued; they were like tall edifices supported by strong foundations. Then the Christian religion appeared in Byzantium and the centres of learning were eliminated, their vestiges effaced and the edifice of Greek learning was obliterated. Everything the ancient Greeks had brought to light vanished, and the discoveries of the ancients were altered beyond recognition.
Al-Masʿudi "In The Meadows of Gold"
935AD

>>17858099 (OP)
learning their languages. Latin is so ugly sounding it's actually insane, nothing rolls off the tongue like Greek. it's just objectively better

Roman architecture >> Greek architecture

by far.

also roman history , historical figures and morality is way more interesting. I dont mean just more interesting, i mean WAY more. i am not interested in philosophy, so the greeks to me we only better in sculpture and literature.

>>17858433
>Roman architecture >> Greek architecture
what’s the difference?

>>17858467
greek = columns, pediment, temples, big marble blocks
roman = domes, arches, basilica, opus latericium


very, very different, people get confused because the romans also used the greek architecture (which ruined their cities), hadn’t they done it, ancient Rome would have looked almost like Renaissance Rome

>>17858433
>architecture
arches were cool, but the greeks were the originators
>morality
wut
>historical figures
50/50

>greeks to me we only better in sculpture and literature
also science

>>17858433
we know more about the romans than the greeks due to what was written down

>>17858548
concrete was also impressive, but nothing beats greek doric, ionic, and corinthian colums in terms of architecture

>>17858099 (OP)
Persia > both
>In a posthumously published fragment, he deplores a lost historical opportunity: "It was much more fortunate if Persians became masters (Herr) of the Greeks, than the very Romans." (SW, 8/65) In this note Nietzsche reveals, once more, his radical opposition to the Greek metaphysical thought, as developed by Socrates and Plato, which later, by supremacy of the Greek culture inside the Roman Empire, became dominant and then integrated into the other-worldly, 'nihilistic', tenets of Christianity. While, in his view, the dominance of the positive outlooks of the Persians toward worldly life and time would have prevented the prevalence of such a sinister event in human history.

>>17858490
>roman = domes, arches
That's oriental architecture, my friend.

>>17858644
>>17858099 (OP)
Had Alexander the Great (PBUH) not ascended so early and finished forming his GRECO-PERSIAN-ARABIAN-INDIAN-CHINESE EMPIRE, we would've been in space by 300 AA (AFTER ALEXANDER)

>>17858548
>but the greeks were the originators
completely false claim. the roman arch is roman, greeks at least had pseudo-arches like those in the middle east.
the arches you see in the roman bridges or in the arcades of the colosseum , they are only roman. Like the actual domes (not carved into natural stone). The column on the other hand, that is an element the greeks took and refined from egypt with little / zero structural changes.
there is a monstrous gap between greek architecture and roman architecture both in terms of aesthetics and originality.
greek science is irrelevant except for math. so yes, math too. but engineering? warfare? technology? all roman. And it’s a existentialist distortion that pure science would be nobler than applied science : david hilbert argues against this misconception
>>17858566
1) irrelevant remark (and also quite false) because it leads to any possible conclusion about any possible civilisation, we deal with what we know and 2) the greeks started calling themselves romans during the empire and larped as roman even after the empire fell. 3) it is a atmosphere, a flavour you feel when approaching their different histories

>>17858490
>roman = domes, arches, basilica, opus latericium
All of these existed in Greece, retard. Domes and arches in particular are so old they were used from the Bronze Age onwards in Mesopotamia.

>>17858099 (OP)
What did Greece actually achieve?

>>17858696
stupid fuck, open a book
architecture is not about a final “shape” or rather appearance , it is an intellectual practice. the roman arch has nothing to do with middle eastern “arch” even if they look the same. That would be like saying a turk and a nigerian are the same because they are both brown: their genetic makeup is completely different

Byzantines at their lowest were better than both, eg. when they've restored the Empire from the Latins, look at the art they've produced to cement the continuity of Roman law and culture.
And that survives in fragments still because Ottomans destroyed as much as possible.

>>17858330
Describes Alexandria up to the Islamic conquest, then it got ruined forever.

>>17858714
also, unlike the roman architecture in respect to the middle east, “middle eastern” architecture itself evolves directly from neolithic monolithic architecture (= european), so what? the issue here is the recognizability/originality of a certain style.

>>17858714
You are a complete retard. Roman architecture was entirely copied off Greek and Etruscan to begin with. The Romans adopted the arch and dome from the Middle East, like how they adopted marble and pediment from the Greeks.

>>17858744
again, try and open a book, pigeon brained mongrel.

>>17858099 (OP)

>>17858685
>greek science is irrelevant
wut

>>17858744
even if arches and domes were entirely roman, that doesn't change the fact that many buildings by the romans were based off of greek doric, ionic, and corinthians

>>17858685
>greeks started calling themselves romans during the empire and larped as roman even after the empire fell
aka when they gradually become an even more unremarkable civilization

>it is a atmosphere, a flavour you feel when approaching their different histories
if subjectivity is what you consider, then that's another reason why i like greeks better

>>17858810
we know the greek historical figures as well as the roman ones. I prefer the romans, you prefer the greeks, of course it is subjective.

>>17858815
fine, we'll just end it here and accept that both civilizations are different

>>17858734
>Describes Alexandria up to the Islamic conquest, then it got ruined forever.
The fuck kind of alternate timeline do you live in?
Ptolemy VIII expelled the scholars from Alexandria in 145BC and it never recovered as a world class place of learning. it was just a copy-pasta book factory after that, populated by scribes instead of scholars or scientists.
Julius Caesar burned down the library in 48BC. It was eventually rebuilt but many ancient writings were lost. Alexandria turned to a shithole under Roman rule. There was not a single noteworthy new scientific theory or any writings of note during the entire roman rule of Alexandria. By the time Christian mob destroyed the few remaining books of Alexandria a few hundred years later there was already nothing of Value left.

Hundreds of years after the Christians destroyed the last fragments of Alexandria's worth, Islam was founded. By the time the Arabs conquered the city Alexandria was just a sea port that shipped grain to the Byzantines. They took the city without much incident as the garrison surrendered and life continued more or less the same after the conquest.

>>17858858
Woah a wall of pure retardation.
Come back to reality kiddo.

the arabs ( / muslims , same trash) truly are the worst vermins out there.

>>17858863
The only questionable thing there was that there was anything of value left in Alexandria before the Christians fucked it over in the 4th century. The mob burned the city but this was 500 years after the Greeks abandoned it as a place of learning.

>>17858804
>even if arches and domes were entirely roman
No, latrinx mongrel. Arches and domes were adopted by the Romans from Greece and the Middle East, you stupid retard.

>>17858804
they were interpolations into the authentic roman architecture, and no, not “even if”, the arch is roman, period. there are no actual arches (pic rel) before the romans engineered them.

>>17859092
then it’s settled
arches are distinctively roman, and doric/ionic/corinthian columns are distinctively greek

>>17858099 (OP)
Depends if we're talking about Republic or Empire.
Being a boy is simping for the Empire. Being a man is simping for what came before.

>>17859163
yes indeed

>>17858298
True
>channeled spring water into their homes through lead pipes

>>17858685
>>17858685
>but engineering? warfare? technology? all roman.
>ballista and crossbows
greek
>heavy holipte-style infantry
greek
>helmets
Celt
>swords
Celt
>body armour
Celt
>Pilum
Celt
>anime belts with more belts
Roman

>>17858099 (OP)
Rome was the cradle of modern globalism. They empowered jews. They invented multicultural states. They gave a platform to chr*stians. They didn't give the world anything when it comes to culture, science, or philosophy. Roman leaders were mostly pedophiles and degenerates.

>>17858490
>hadn’t they done it, ancient Rome would have looked almost like Renaissance Rome
No, it would look like Constantinople. Ironic how it's also the Greeks who perfected the supposed "original Roman architecture"

>>17858099 (OP)
I agree but only if you are talking about early iron age greece.
Late was as degenerate as rome.

>>17859900
Literally Vienna.

>>17859850
>>heavy holipte-style infantry
>greek
Heavy Infantry wasn't invented by the Greeks, the fuck are you on. They've existed well before Indo-Europeans even made it to Greece. Roman soldiers weren't even like hoplites at all either.

>>17859900
that’s the model of a early 14th century building , heavily influenced by european romenesque architecture from 2-3 centuries before, you stupid fuck. that’s not how byzantine architecture looked like in the 8th century. Genuine byz architecture is just a mannerist protraction of late roman architecture, especially from ravenna, like the galla placidia tomb or the basilica of san vitale, but wirh more domes and more arches.

>>17859931
>Roman soldiers weren't even like hoplites at all either.
The combination of light javelins, armour plus sword&board was used by the armies of Alexander, I understand.

>>17858099 (OP)
age 8 or so, when reading about Archimedes and watching Asterix cartoons

>>17859939
>The combination of light javelins, armour plus sword&board was used by the armies of Alexander
Nigga the fucking Sumerians used that

>>17859988
That's because it's the white man's weapon system and the Sumerians were white.

>>17860298
You are mentally ill