Thread 17863788 - /his/

Anonymous
7/22/2025, 8:49:56 PM No.17863788
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How was the live like in prince-bishopric states? Were there any different from typical medieval feudalistic societies? For example, if I’m a civilian living in Kurfürstentum Trier or Köln in 1200 or 1300s, What would my life look like?
Replies: >>17863796 >>17863930 >>17865008 >>17866873 >>17868118
Anonymous
7/22/2025, 8:51:43 PM No.17863796
>>17863788 (OP)
If you're not working for the ruler or in some adjacent role, it literally doesn't make a difference.
Anonymous
7/22/2025, 9:45:01 PM No.17863930
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>>17863788 (OP)
No difference. The ecclesiastical princes and rulers acted just like the secular ones - like being a liege lord to lesser secular nobles and ecclesiastical rulers.
The Archbishop of Cologne, Engelbert I. (1185 - 1225) greatly expanded the territory of the Archdiocese of Cologne by concentrating several rhenish and westfalian bailiwicks under him, which led eventually to the murder of him by other princes. Of note is that Engelbert I. was also a great friend of Emperor Friedrich II. and he probably influenced him to issue the "Confoederatio cum principibus ecclesiasticis", a bull which greatly strenghtend the cclesiastical princes by granting them royal rights (like minting coin and building castles to their liking).
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 5:57:14 AM No.17864970
The bishop balanced loyalty to the pope, the emperor, and local interests, which could lead to political tensions affecting civilians.
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 6:28:21 AM No.17865008
>>17863788 (OP)
No the underlying bureaucracy and feudal lords were the same
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 7:06:18 AM No.17865058
Whoever was appointed bishop of a certain place automatically became prince of a certain principality. In the HRE this ment they were independent state-lets

.Clergy were forbidden to use edged weapons so they rode into battle and hit enemies with metal studded wooden clubs.
Replies: >>17865345
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 11:47:02 AM No.17865345
>>17865058
>Clergy were forbidden to use edged weapons so they rode into battle and hit enemies with metal studded wooden clubs.
That's a myth. There were papal bans which prohibited members of the clergy from fighting altogether but nothing that "restricted" them to non-bladed weaponry.
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 7:22:18 PM No.17866205
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To give more detail about the role of eclesiastical rulers within the HRE: While Bishops (in the shape of the Archbishops, who also function as the Prince-Electors, and the many generic Prince-Bishops definately are the most prominent there a myriad more of princely and imperial abbeys (the german term is Reichsprälat). And like those bishopships those abbeys enjoyed imperial immediacy (meaning that they followed only the orders of the Emperors; in practice having souveranity over their territory) and directly represented themselves within the Imperial Diet. This granted them of course a considerable amount of freedom within the HRE but interestingly they had one very important duty towards the Emperor: the ecclesiastical rulers were amongst the most important military vassels of the early and middle empire.
A famous example is the Reichenau Abby, which supplied Otto I. and Otto II. with many contingents of heavy cavalry for their varios expeditions against the hungarians and saracens.
Replies: >>17866916
Anonymous
7/23/2025, 11:54:37 PM No.17866873
>>17863788 (OP)
Well the city of Colonge fought a war to not be a part of one, but the city of Liege, seems to have been okay with it for most of their history
Replies: >>17868728
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:10:18 AM No.17866916
>>17866205
>the ecclesiastical rulers were amongst the most important military vassels of the early and middle empire.
How can this be true? In Crusader Kings Temple vassals give fewer and worse levies than Feudal vassals
Replies: >>17868728
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:16:41 AM No.17866930
The fact you're asking this shows you don't really comprehend how this system worked. These fiefs are not any different from any other type of fief, they were simply granted to a bishop instead of a lay peer. The fief would be run the same way regardless of who owned, just because the owner happened to be a man of the cloth didn't change anything.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 2:59:53 PM No.17868118
>>17863788 (OP)
Now that this is brought up. Did anything really change on land owned by say monastic orders and the catholic church, or did nothing change for serfs except who they paid their rents to? I'm not too familiar with how the system worked in Medieval Europe. Only in America, and that was a whole other thing.

Also. Now that we talk about this, was there ever an attempt to have something similar but for protestants?
Replies: >>17868156 >>17868759
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 3:24:47 PM No.17868156
>>17868118
I'm sure the Hussites or the Lutherans would have been willing to do so.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 7:13:52 PM No.17868728
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>>17866873
You probably mean the War of the Limburg Succession (1283–1289). This was the result of the rising power of the secular rulers (mainly Brabant, Berg,Mark and Jülich) in contrast to the waning power of the Electorate of Cologne.The bourgeois inhabitants of Cologne noticed this as well and sided with the secular rulers against the Archbishop (sidenote: already in 1074 an unsuccessful uprising against the Archbishop took place). At the Battle of Worringen in 1288 the war was decided and the side of the Archbishop of Cologne lost. Thus the power of the Electorate of Cologne diminished even more - it had to slight several castles in order to defortify the Rhine and the Archbishop de facto lost the sovereignty over the city of Cologne (de jure said city became an Imperial City in 1475) and was never able to retrieve it. He wasn't even allowed to live in the city and only was to set foot in it in order to fulfill his ecclesiastical duties as Archbishop.
>>17866916
I've never played those games but historically the early monasteries/abbeys/etc. were centres of industry, commerce and education. Thus being able to amass quite a lot of wealth and so also being able to field well equipped soliders for their military ban. In addition they were usually more loyal to the Emperor in contrast to the secular rulers, as their territory was directly sourced from his imperial position.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 7:24:26 PM No.17868759
>>17868118
>Did anything really change on land owned by say monastic orders and the catholic church
Nothing changed as the ecclesiastical rulers also performed the duties of secular ones. They were the full souverains (Landesherren) over their territories.
>Now that we talk about this, was there ever an attempt to have something similar but for protestants?
If you mean independant protestant ecclesiastical states then no - at least not in the HRE. During and after the reformation the many newly protestant states took on the administrative role of bishops for the newly reformed churches within their territories. The german term for it is Landeskirche meaning state church. The protestant rulers were de facto also the bishops of their Landeskirchen but many just delegated those tasks.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 12:08:00 AM No.17869437
Bump