Does history have heroes and villains?

War does not determine who is right. Only who is left. /r/2deep4me

In the Kali Yuga everyone is good and evil. If God were to kill all evil people, there would be no one left.

>>17865411 (OP)
Carthage was evil though

>>17865411 (OP)
>>17865411 (OP)
Yeah, the heroes are the guys who won the wars and wrote the history... regardless of how morally upright, righteous, or decent they were.

And villains are those who lost.

The moral trappings are an afterthought. The main difference is victory and loss.

>>17865411 (OP)
Morals are subjective. When you actually get genuine power, you rarely every think in terms of 'right' and 'wrong' but purely in terms of 'is this right for me and my group?'
Unironically, if you play a paradox type game, you will understand this.

>>17865411 (OP)
Carthage and sparta were the bad guys, unquestionably.

>>17865411 (OP)
It's easy to "both sides" any conflict when you have no personal stake in it.

Carthage was the agressor in the 2nd and the victim in the 3rd Punic war. The 1st one was kind of a mess that shouldn't even have happened but Rome comes out better since at least they didn't sacrifice babies.

>Athens vs Sparta
Athens was the imperialist power at the time. Read the Melian Dialogue. Being a Spartan non-citizen sucked but outside their borders they were pretty as evidenced by how lax they were when imposing peac on Athen's allies.

>>17865551
Carthage was also the victim in the Mercenary War, no?

>>17865497
The Persians were the good guys, actually
>le globohomo anti-slavery empire vs the Le Heckin Colonial Gated Communities

>>17865411 (OP)
Carthage was the bad guy
Sparta and Athens were both good guys

>>17865411 (OP)
Carthage had tophets, Rome had none, which makes them the good guys
Spartans were incapable of maintaining their lifestyle without their 80% slave population and leveraged Corinth to strike at a free association of city-states around Athens.

>>17865411 (OP)
Yes definitely.

>>17865411 (OP)
"good guy" vs "bad guy" is meaningless in the context of ancient history
antiquity was just brutal

>>17865827
Rome had centuries of civil wars because greedy politicians were stealing the land and debasing the currency of Roman citizens. It would be like calling the US government the good guys in the modern world just because they don't have child brides or public stoning. Just because middle eastern cultures are evil and fucked up by default doesn't make a prevailing power good. The US government is in thrall to the most morally deranged and evil country on this earth.

>>17866184
>just because they don't have child brides
Yeah okay.

>>17865411 (OP)
The side I support are heroes. The side I oppose are villains

>>17865551
>carthage was the aggressor in 2nd
Get a map
Look at where the Ebro is
Look at where Saguntum was

Now read Livy for a pro-roman source admitting
>>umm the cause of the war was hannibal swearing to do it as a child (source: I saw it in a dream)
>i.e. a pro-roman could not honestly prove it with the events at hand and resorted to hearsay & myth
>>but the trigger event was saguntum, the attack of a roman ally
>the roman response to the protracted siege of a valuable valuable ally was to spectate from a boat
>>the carthaginian senate was really mean when they asked if we wanted peace or war!!!
>they were confused they were getting flak for hannibal attacking some guys (probably weren't actual roman allies, if they were it was deliberate provocation in an area carthaginians had been allowed), and the romans literally declined peace in favour of war

The Romans were the aggressors, and we can see this from their own propagandist

>>17865738
Rome and Persia were both good guys.

>>17865411 (OP)
yes but they can only be appreciated by souls that have a standard for heroism.
for example the retard in the op pic fails to understand that Rome was the good guy compared to Carthage and that Sparta was the good guy compared to Athens.

>>17865738
True.