It's time to put an end to this debate.
The gradient of North African ancestry in the Iberian Peninsula isn't South to North, as one would expect from the Muslim invasion, but West to East.

>Why is that?
Muslim forces did enter Iberia from the South. But over ~800 years of presence, their genetic influence became widespread across the entire peninsula.

During the Reconquista, two major demographic shifts occurred:
>The expulsion of Moors and Moor-admixed populations, particularly from urban centers and agricultural regions
>The settlement of Christian populations, especially from Northern Europe and the Pyrenees, who were granted land in reconquered areas

The expulsion of Moors uniformly reduced the Moorish admixture from 40% to <15% in the entire peninsula.
But northern settlers mostly settled in North-Eastern Iberia. They made North-Eastern Iberia very White, to the point of having little to no Moorish-admixture today, but they had a much lesser impact on Southern and Western Iberia.

This is reflected today in genetic studies: North-Eastern Spaniards are the Whitest people in the peninsula, but Galicians, Portuguese and Southern Spaniards still carry high levels of North African DNA.

>>17868234 (OP)
I have always found it weird how Portugual and Galicia have more african and semite dna than areas of Spain that were under Moor and Punic occupation. It doesnt make sense to me but dna studies dont lie

>>17868234 (OP)
I thought this was well known? We are African BVLLS.

>>17868234 (OP)
might have something to do with having a shit ton of mozambican and angolan immigrants in portugal and they tested a few of them

>>17868282
>>17868293
Podrán decir lo que quieran los gabachos, los piratas y los cabezacuadradas, pero todos los españoles sabemos que los portugueses y nosotros somos hermanos, y la definición de blanco no nos importa, sabiéndonos HISPANOS

>>17868234 (OP)
The polychromy of the Iberian statues already showed up black haired persons.

>>17868326
But also Galician statues from Iron Age showed up swarthy people.

>>17868329
As well Asturian and Leonese manuscripts from Early Middle Ages

>>17868336

>>17868342

>>17868345
Also the Romanesque and Gothic statues from Ourense and Compostela show up dark haired persons.

>>17868356

>>17868359

>>17868244
It's a combination of the atlantic coast being extremely prosperous for phoenician and north african settlers in ancient times since it had less competition than the med coast from their peers + being the best geography in the entire peninsula bar maybe the densely populated north, meaning it's more hospitable and thus welcoming of more diverse peoples (harsher regions would attract mostly those with a specific connection to it). It attracted a lot of NA and near east individuals.

>>17868234 (OP)
>Moorish admixture from 40%
Absolutely false. Muslims were like 1-2% of the total population in Iberia and just lived in the main cities in the half south. Even there they were a minority.

Most Iberians never saw a muslim in the 700 years pressence of them as most Britons never saw a roman in the 500 years pressence of them there, as most nafris never saw a Roman in the 400 years pressence of them in northafrica.


There are more muslims now in any french city than all the muslims combined in all of iberia in the 700 years together.

>>17868329
Dark hair is the DEFAULT in western Europe since ancient times. Blond hair is just a mutation that came later (8000 years ago or so). So, it is more pure someone with very dark hair than someone with blonde hair. Pure as ancient genetics.

>>17868401
How were Muslims only 1-2% of the total population in Iberia, when Southern/Eastern Iberians still have 10% North African DNA?

>>17868431
>Eastern
Western

>>17868391
There were no punic settlement in the atlantic coasts of Spain ever you retard.

>>17868431
>2025
>People still think the North African admixture in Iberians is come from the muslim period.

>>17868234 (OP)
Iberians never were on average anywhere close to 40% nafri and there were no northern european settlers who came in meaningful numbers. Ironically the only Spaniards who have a detectable amount of northern DNA are the Galciians.

>>17868293
Its nafri dna, not ssa dna

>>17868445
Some did
Some regions are like 30 % E-M81 in iberia

>>17868459
No lmao.

>>17868234 (OP)
Another garbage thread of disinformation.

>>17868431
Lots of lies about AlAndalus.

The maps are fake. It is just a way for historians to explain a period of time. Most Iberians never saw a muslim in the several centuries that they were there.

This is a previous map of Iberia where the Vandals and Suebi looked like that they were ruling all of Iberia....despite being like 0.5% of the total population. It is just a way to represent a period.

Most of Iberia during AlAndalus remained christian even in deep Andalucia. There are zero muslim remains in 95% of the villages in Andalucia because there was no central muslim government, just a few major cities had a muslim elite.

Reconquista was about retaking main cities in the half south and important castles.

>>17868583
>Most Iberians never saw a muslim in the several centuries that they were there.
The fuck? You're going to ignore all the Christian writings about Christian reaction to Muslim rule or even complaints about Christians being Arabized? You're going to ignore all the intermarriages and the laws that Muslim judges wrote regarding mixed religious families and Christian-Muslim-Jewish interaction? Even zooarchaeological evidence shows that the Muslim occupation coincides with a massively reduced ownership of pigs, implying a societal avoidance of breaking Islamic taboo of eating pigs.
Genuinely curious where you got your information from...

>>17868583
There were many conversos, muladies, due Jizya and persecutions. Spaniards from Granada were deported to Morocco by Almohads and treatened with extermination if they didn't convert to Islam.

>"We suffer no distress from the destruction of our basilicas, from the disgrace and insult of our priests, from the heavy tribute that we pay every month with great anguish and hardship; death itself would be less painful if it could put an end to so many calamities, to the painful agony of a life sustained in such poverty and constraint."
-Memoriale Sanctorum, Saint Eulogius of Córdoba, IX century.

When Spanish army started to advance south, most of mosques (usually built over Christian basilicas) wee turned into churches.

>>17868600
>>17868612
look >>17868470

>>17868234 (OP)
that source though, lol

>>17868466
I said some regions/villages

Let's not forget about the Mirandese minority

>>17868244
It's probably because central and southern Spain was partially repopulated by northerners, many of them part-Basque, which made them less NA-like. Maybe there was also some homogenisation going on in the western part of the peninsula, Portugal seems extremely homogenous from North to South

>>17868431
Practically all of that was already there in Roman times, Moorish occupation and the ensuing Reconquista brought about a shuffling around of components due to intra-Iberian mixing
>Eastern
You mean Western, Catalans/Valencians/Balearic Islanders have very little North African admixture

>>17868600
That is in Cordoba, Granada, Merida, ....

5-6 cities out of a whole Peninsula with millions of people that never saw a muslims in their lives.

Even in Andalucia most people never saw a muslim in their lives in the whole 600 years. Or do you really believe that hundred of thousands arabs went in a ship to Spain in the years 700-1000?? For what reason?? Even today most african ships would sink if not for the help of the European armies. There are no ports in southern Spain related with the muslim period.

It is like saying that the whole Britain is jewish because a few thousands jews in London wrote about how living in the jewish quarters of London is in the XV century.

THose scholars wrote about Cordoba or Granada. There are hundreds of other places in Iberia that never had muslim rule despite the meme maps.

>>17868234 (OP)
"White"? Why are you using colonial terminology? Portugal is Portuguese, simple as

>>17869034
I'm noticing a lack of a source for your information after I have asked. Which scholars agree with you?

>That is in Cordoba, Granada, Merida, ....
And Valencia, and Toledo, etc. We even have names of Muslim lords who descended from Basque Christians. You can't just pretend Muslims had no presence further north.
>5-6 cities out of a whole Peninsula with millions of people that never saw a muslims in their lives.
As if the local lords of rural areas weren't also Muslim? And as if rural Christians weren't taxed with jizya? With all the incentives for converting, including social mobility? This is assuming too much.
>Or do you really believe that hundred of thousands arabs went in a ship to Spain in the years 700-1000??
Arabs? We're talking about Muslims in general. This includes Iberian converts. The Iberians started speaking Arabic from a top to bottom influence, implying they interacted with Muslim Arab elites. Christian clergymen even wrote in Arabic after some time, which they only would if they come from an Arabized society. Otherwise they'd keep writing in Latin.
>It is like saying that the whole Britain is jewish because a few thousands jews in London wrote about how living in the jewish quarters of London is in the XV century.
Not at all what anyone is saying. There is enough evidence in writing and archeology that describes a society where even rural Christians would at least see Muslim from time to time, who could likely be a local lord or some other official or trader. Acting as if Christians would have never seen a Muslim is making more assumptions than the contrary. It also contradicts witnesses of Islamic Sicily (which lasted an even shorter period of time than Al-Andalus) that describes of rural families with mixed Muslim and Christian members and a majority presence of Muslims in the region.

Please tell me where you get your information from. Maybe it will be more convincing this way.

>>17868244
Bc thar north african admixture happened along time ago. Spain has had lots of genetic inputs. The European hunter gatherer. Proto indo europeans. Celtic. Roman. Greek. North african. Greek. Now native american rmfrom their colonies.

>>17868234 (OP)
Their both pretty brown but still generally Will get the European pass

Albanians are an even greater stretch but also pass

Italians pass with flying colors , especially northern Italians


Bulgarians are brown though , same with Bosnians and Macedonians

Every Moorberian is a negroid mutt except Basques.

>>17868583
>>17868470
>>17868234 (OP)
You forgot that Spain was raped by Levantine North African hybrids way before Al-Andalus as well.

There was no reconquista or expulsion of Carthaginian descendants in Spain that time.

Spain was also invaded by Alans fron the steppes who came with the Vandals, Suebi and Visigoths.

>>17870120

>>17870120
The reconquista also largely removed those genes

>>17870138
No it didn't. That's like saying Sicilians are not mongrels because they got conquered by Normans. Both Iberians and Sicilians have Sub-Saharan African admixture.

>>17870185
You're insane greekjeet

>>17870188
Everything that gets picked up as Natufian/Taforalt in Europe is ultimately just SSA. These components are all interchangeable.

>>17870221
>>17870185
>>17870120
you are american, the reconqista removed a ton of those genes

>>17870188
he's american

>>17870026
Look Sweden also has a lot of SSA.

Those are FAKE results.


>>17870120
carthaginian were just in the SouthEast and were like 1% of the population.

Alans were like 0.01% of the population.

Maybe we should start to check how much mongol (protouralic or from the hunns) half of Europe has. Much higher than carthaginian or alans in Iberia.