>>17868316 (OP)
>ARE THOSE FOREIGNERS DOING SOMETHING I FIND STRANGE!?
>AAAAAAAGHHHHH SAVE ME KJV-ONLY CALVINIST JESUS AYIASNLMALKJALKMS

>>17868320
Yeah, I'm Russian and Calvinism is trash too but never mind that, orthobro

>>17868316 (OP)
Putinism is a degenerate cult indeed. Can't wait for Orthodoxy to be purged of this disease.

Enjoy hell.

>>17868659
Orthodoxy is the cancer, Putinism is just the puss that comes out of it

>>17868659
No. Just no. Putin is the modern Tzar and it's up to him that Russia is the last bastion of traditional values... If you dont' understand that you must be trannie.

>>17868665
pus*

>>17868666
You are an ignorant retard. Russia is degenerate as fuck, Russian TV is the worst, Russians are world leaders in abortion. Last bastion of traditional values?
I'm Russian, open your yap only when you know shit.
Orthodoxy is a flase religion too.

>>17868680
There is no degeneracy. Just watch RT to know the truth. LGBT are literally banned.

>>17868666
My bad comrade, hail Putin and his AIDS ridden empire.

>>17868665
Why would it be cancer? Orthodoxy seems to be Catholicism minus the incessant need to over-rationalize everything by smothering it in 26 Latin terms at a time.

>>17868700
>abortion #1
>no degeneracy here

Slavshills are the worst.
Coming from a Russian

>>17868706
It's a confused anti-fertility cult, with no councils, a sea of contradictions and fun-hating, self-loathing wimps that can't even eat meat for most of the year.
The monks also smell like shit and think it's virtue (been to a monastery).
Superstition is rampant, and their "saints" are sophist trash that make catholic saints like Bernard of Clairvaux look godly.
They have as much child rape as the catholics if not more, only difference they actively try to conceal it. Their priests are obliged to have wives and still fuck kids. They kill babies in full submersion (baptism) and try to hide it too (look it up). Is that "the miracle of baptism" to you?
Could go on.

But it doesn't matter, because it's dying in its original countries, as it should.

It will die with a spark (because of American converts) and be forgotten about.

>>17868764
>It's a confused anti-fertility cult
Even priests have kids in Orthodoxy.
>a sea of contradictions
Maybe. Antinomies are a mark of vital and healthy soul, as Kant would say.
>and fun-hating, self-loathing wimps that can't even eat meat for most of the year.
No idea where this is coming from but I slightly see where you're coming from when I see some American converts.
>superstition is rampant
Valid point.
>their "saints" are sophist trash
Like who? To classify saints into philosophers and sophists is to miss the meaning of sainthood altogether.
>They kill babies in full submersion (baptism) and try to hide it too
This happened like twice and nobody covered it up.

>>17868780
I will answer only two points, because I don't want to convince you I'm right, but to convince you that you really know very little and should do research on your own to see what's true.

Orthodox literature is very explicit in its distain for sex and pleasure.
The church fathers are unanimous, the ressources are too vast, so I will send a part of them from a reddit post (cringe all you like, it's correct)
https://www.reddit.com/r/exorthodox/s/9t91pVwXJk

Second, the infants dying at baptism should be proof enough it's not a miraculous, or at least holy church, but to answer your point, yes there was a cover-up. When it happened in Romania the priest blamed the parents and said it was milk in the lungs of the baby. The other stories are hard to find, because they are trying to erase them because it's out there.

Good luck.

>>17868803
This is by no means a flex but I've been reading mostly theology-related literature (mostly Orthodox) for years now. Distain for sex and pleasure is an outsider impression, not anything remotely doctrinal.

>infants dying at baptism should be proof enough it's not a miraculous
No idea why. People die when you're not careful.
>When it happened in Romania [they gave an excuse]
This is literally one of the two cases I am aware of. Your key example of a cover-up neither sounds nor works as a cover-up.

I do think this is a resentment thing at the core.
Good luck to you to and unironically God bless you.

>>17868812
I don't know what you've been reading, but I provided quotes, and the conception of Mary was dogmatically without pleasure in Orthodoxy. Read why that is. If that isn't enough for you, nothing is.
Read the fathers on sex, they are unanimous as are the saints. Patristic consent is the law.

A supposedly life giving miraculous event like baptism killing a child? Yeah happens, sure. Lmao

It seems like there's no going back for you. I regret engaging.

>>17868837
>there was no sex
>so there was no pleasure
>this is a problem
>If that isn't enough for you, nothing is.
Then I suppose nothing is.

>Read the fathers on sex
>>> St. Clement of Alexandria: We should not then be hostile to pleasure. It is the excess and misuse of pleasure that is the enemy. Pleasure that contributes to health or procreation is not condemned.
>>> St. Augustine: The union, then, of male and female for the purpose of procreation is a natural good... the function of the genital organs is good, and the union of the sexes in itself is not evil.
>>> John Chrysostom: Marriage is honorable... Not the sexual union is impure, but the misuse of it.
These?

>>17868851
So you don't even know they had actual sex without pleasure when conceiving Mary according to orthodoxy. That is astonishing.

Nice cherry-picking of quotes too,
Clement of Alexandria is not a saint anymore, not surprised you don't know that.
The other quotes are correct, yes there are instances of fathers praising the procreation part, not the pleasure.

Read all the fathers, and read them on sex and its origins ("the fall").

Truth is uncomfortable when it isn't Jesus.

This is a really low iq debate and you are clearly biased unable to admit anything.

You don't even know how Mary was conceived, which is frankly laughable.

But the problem isn't lack of knowledge, it's the firm irrational grip to any faith and the unimaginability of it beeing wrong. This is also called delusion.
So as I said, at this stage there is no helping you.

>>17868879
So many strong emotions lol. Regret. Then astonishment. Then laughter. Then despondency. Take it easy, brother. Our God is the God of peace.

My bad, I misunderstood what you mean "of Mary". And indeed, as a lifelong Orthodox I had no idea that a small share of theologians and saints considered her purer than bodily pleasure. Which means that you're experiencing an emotional roller-coaster over such a miniscule and non-representative element of theology that I cannot help but wonder what you think this means.
That pleasure is bad? Clement of Alexandria (who is a Church Father despite not being universally recognized as a saint) disagrees. Augustine disagrees. If you want a theologian explicitly saying "pleasure is based, yall", say the word and I'll start digging.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you conquering all these emotional rifts to at least partially address the points you yourself raised.

>>17868700
>There is no degeneracy. Just watch RT to know the truth. LGBT are literally banned.
I know this a troll but there's a saying, the harshness of Russian law is tempered by its optionality. (Or something, depends on how you translate it.) There's no room for false modesty in Russia. They've had celebrity scandals recently about this with notable people throwing decadent parties during the SMO. If you have money, you've got to flaunt it with as much gaucherie and condescension as you're capable of.
https://youtu.be/hopdHBNt8Lc

>>17868900
My emotions and person have no bearing on the validity of my arguments. This shows your insecurity.

You said you read a lot of orthodox literature and didn't even know how Mary was conceived.
It's not a share of small theologians and saints either, it is believed by the church. Again, ask yourself why, and do the research. Don't be lazy this time.
Read YOUR saints. Don't believe me.

Beeing a church father doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Origen was a church father and considered a heretic. Again, you don't even know that while claiming to have read a lot. If I were you I would say you have an ego problem and a lack of humility, but unlike you, I know this isn't an actual argument. You're the one talking about my emotions.

Me adressing only a part of your points was merely to encourage you to read more on this.
I don't want to convince you of a religion or lack thereof, I want you to have enough love for truth to actually do it yourself.
You are the master of your heart, not me.

So far, you are no better than a muslim.

>>17868915
>They've had celebrity scandals recently about this with notable people throwing decadent parties during the [invasion].
Only because soldiers themselves started complaining. And even then Putin's grand-daughter walked off unaffected. The "optionality" you describe is called corruption and nepotism.

>>17868923
I didn't relate your emotions to the validity of your arguments. I told you to chill lmao.

I don't know who small theologians are, but sadly my question " what you think this means." goes unanswered. It is completely granted that this idea is held and maybe even widely believed in Orthodoxy. But it is so peripheral that major works of Orthodox theology omit it completely and you can live 28 years as an orthodox and never hear it. If this is central to your argument, I suppose it is what it is.

>Clement of Alexandria compared to Origen
We both know you achieved nothing here. Clement is a valid citation. If you disagree, oh well.

>So far, you are no better than a muslim.
Nooooooo please take it back :(

So just to recap: Orthodoxy bad because...
>Babies die when treated poorly
>Mary is considered so pure her conception was beyond bodily pleasure
>Fathers saying that pleasure is ok doesn't count
Thank you for raising these points, I am encouraged.

>>17868963
How Mary was conceived is clearly referring to her own birth, not the birth of Jesus.

>>17868969
I know, that was my misunderstanding I corrected in >>17868900
>My bad, I misunderstood what you mean "of Mary".

>>17868963
Yes, anything dogmatic is central to my argument. You beeing uncomfortable with that, doesn't change the fact that orthodox hatred of sexual pleasure even extends to Mary's parents.
Again, read why, don't believe me.

You liking Clement more than Origen is arbitrary. The standard for a valid voice in orthodoxy is always sainthood.
This is actually a reasonanle thing about orthodoxy (which you don't know?).

If sexual pleasure is pure and holy (torah) why did Mary's parents not experience it?

Cope incoming 3... 2...

Yeah, babies died not because they were handled wrong but because emerging babies who don't even know what water is, in water three times, with them not knowing how to act underwater is deadly.
Not obvious enough?

And yeah you are def acting like a muslim.

>>17868316 (OP)
A Russian is in no place to call anything degenerate.

>>17868992
OP here. Russians are degenerate. Orthodoxy is degenerate. Orthodox countries are extremely degenerate.
I don't disagree

>>17868985
Good thing Mary's conception isn't dogma then.

>Clement of Alexandria compared to Origen
Futile to anyone who has even cursory knowledge.

>If sexual pleasure is pure and holy (torah) why did Mary's parents not experience it?
It is not holy. It is natural. Please revise your goalposts.

>[babies] not knowing how to act underwater
Besides literally having a diving reflex?

Allahu akbar.

>>17868879
He just gave you quotes of the church fathers blatantly going against your narrative and all you can say is "okay, but have you read them all?" without providing a single quote validating your view on them.
I'm not even christian, but this is pathetic argumentation.

>>17869033
That's not all I said, and I referred him to a post which has plenty of quotes (and there are a hundred more).
Reading the entire thread is helpful.

>>17868680
Abortion is based. Wish Putin leaned more towards Slavic paganism and communism desu though.

>>17868706
Orthodoxy is better that Catholicism because the priests are allowed to marry so they aren't all pederasts, and being subject to the national sovereign prevents them from going full poz, but it's still Pauline Christianity so pretty bad and socially degenerate.

>>17868764
Aren't there good news coming from Russia with paganism rapidly growing in popularity?

>>17868316 (OP)
Do you know what degenerate means?

>>17868812
Why would he need blessings from Typhon-Set-Yahweh? He isn't running an Indian scam call center nor do I think is he a pederast.

>>17868680
>getting all your info about Russia from 90s statistics
The butthurt belt signature move

>>17869001
So you're a white cultist?
Your pastors pay black men to come to their home and defile their marriage. You're beyond even being called Christian
https://medium.com/honestly-yours/jerry-falwell-jr-blames-wife-for-emerging-cuckold-sex-scandal-3261c7ae0170
I would sooner take what a Talibani or ISIS soldier says seriously than an American prot/mormon.

>>17869207
World Leaders in Abortion: Top 10 Countries - Lozier Institute https://share.google/qZDqU4MF84pidLvRg

Russia with it's small ass population compared to China and America is third.
In terms of abortions per 100.000 people it is #1 by far. Study from 2015.

Are you retarded?

>>17869221
Those are fake stats pushed do discredit Russia.

>>17869216
>You're beyond even being called Christian

I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not a Christian.
Thank you, for exposing your only two braincells.

And no, I'm Russian, and I love Russia, but it is not le based trad utopia it's made out to be by slavshills on 4chan.
I call out the degeneracy of my people because I love them.

>>17869226
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>17869216
Christianity is degeneracy incarnate.

>>17869226
> muh nafoz ngoz hates me :(((((
You use this excuse every time.
>>17869227
That's fair. As a Christian, I'd rather see your country as atheist or neopagan than whatever mafioso state orthodog larp mess it is now. Being an atheist thug state makes more sense.

>>17869264
>nafoid
>admits to following the pedothilic church
Every time.

The heresy known as Eastern Orthodoxy has virtually nothing in common with biblical Christianity, though few know anything about it and its evangelists in the west thrive on that ignorance, it is considerably further from divine religion than the church of Rome.
>>17868837
>Patristic consent is the law.
This would be an example of its dissent from scripture.
>>17868879
>Clement of Alexandria is not a saint anymore
Who gets to decide these things? This man was worshipped and his image was worshipped, and these things were required, but now, in defiance of tradition, he has been banished from the kingdom of God by men? Not to mention those "saints" of the Greek church which never existed (Thecla) or which were taken directly from pagan religion (Barlaam and Josaphat).

>>17868316 (OP)
100%. It's a more retarded version of Catholicism.

It always amuses me when people on 4chan screech about "degeneracy"

>>17869570
There are non-degenerates on 4chan.

>>17869570
Gay furry diaper fetishism is less degenerate than christianity.

>>17869570
Way to call yourself a degenerate

>>17868316 (OP)
Young men always forget this fundamental fact:
Even the most beautiful of women can be a great whore.
Her beauty is her method of deception.

>>17869633
Not that there is anything beautiful about a house of idols.

>>17868316 (OP)
whole christianity is