We're probably talking about the most advanced Muslim civilization in history. Which according to most experts was like 85% native Iberian demographically. 40% of the total population being christian at its peak.

The average European has more claim to Al-Andalus history than the average MENA yet they salivate at the idea of "taking Spain back"

How many times are you gonna post this thread?

Why do muslim and liberal obsession with land of the vandals and alans?

Muslims in general terms don't get up with the idea of getting kicked out back to desert from the nations they jihad in.
Look at Turks with Balkans and Caucasus or Pakistan with India.

>>17868365
>caucasus
Chechens, Dagestanis, Ingush ?

I wish Muslims would keep that same energy when talking about Hagia Sophia and all the stuff they've stolen but they never do

Pure hypocrisy

>>17868353 (OP)
Islam is not a race retard
They dont view it trough a racial lense
Also yes the commoners were mostly iberians but the elite and military was arab and berber

>>17868353 (OP)
It's more the Muslim version of Rhodesia

>>17868372
>Islam is not a race retard
No one has ever claimed that Islam is a race

>>17868371
West asians anatolians taking their land back against euroaches

>>17868379
Then why do you say "muh euros have more claim to al andalus to menas"
Its not about euros vs menas but muslims vs non muslims

>>17868353 (OP)
Those "advanced muslim civilization" were PERSIANS and lebanese. Nothing to do with today´s northafricans (nafris).
Islam was created just 60 years before AlAndalus so most people did not have an idea of what islam was, just another religion (pagan->christian-arinism-catholicism-islam).

And the muslims just translated greek and hindu old manuscripts and took the teachings from them.

>>17868387
>muh foorsians cucks
Lmao no
They were retarded servile cucks that where getting raped by every conqueror in this planet and their scienfitical contribution was nothing before islam
Same for levantines

>>17868380
Never your land, sandnigga

>>17868387
Nafris bvlls had their own native states and were constantly terrorizing europeans while persians cucks where bottom femboys for mongols, arabs and turkic conquerors

>>17868393
Anatolia was never the land of anatolians ?
It was never YOUR land retarded euroaches
Anatolians turks (who are genetically similar to hittites and others) just kicked euroaches and give them a taste of their medicine

>>17868374
>It's more the Muslim version of Rhodesia
Pretty accurate

>>17868372
>the elite and military was arab and berber
Generally yes, the elites of Umayyad Al-Andalus were mostly of Arab families and Berbers, who also served as the military class.
However, intermarriages of Iberians and Arab elites was quite common. Iberian families employed such marriages for social mobility, and Arab elite men would find it advantageous to marry Christian women as marrying into a Muslim family would often entail that family claiming certain rights over your holdings or power.
A lot of Umayyad elites (including the caliphs) descended from Visigoth elite families who converted over time as well.
The Umayyad caliphs themselves married Christian women so often that one poet said they had a never failing preference for blonde women and that they were blonde themselves.

>>17868353 (OP)
>We're probably talking about the most advanced Muslim civilization in history.
No, the center of Islamic civilization was Baghdad. It was the most advanced civilization in contemporary Europe though.

>>17868399
>Anatolians turks (who are genetically similar to hittites and others)
they arent.

>>17868353 (OP)
>We're probably talking about the most advanced Muslim civilization in history.

Is this true chat?
Was Cordova Caliphate more advanced than let's say 9th–10th Baghdad or Damascus?

Cordoba/Al Andalus is a solid top 3 imo but not the best

>>17868417
They literally are
They just turkified locals
Some have 15-20 % central asian dna but thats a only 10 % of them

>>17868419
>Is this true chat?
It's debatable at best

>>17868387
Notice how the most accomplished Islamic realms are from societies that already had an established tradition of centralized administration and learning (Baghdad, Persia, Hispania, etc.). The accomplishments of Al-Andalus are Spanish accomplishments.

>>17868423
greeks and italians are more similar

>>17868412
>It was the most advanced civilization in contemporary Europe though
What was more advanced, specifically, than Byzantium or the contemporary Frankish kingdom during the Carolinian era? They had not really done much to improve on a Visigothic framework early on, they made the same mistakes in coinage. People often cite the agricultural economy and improvements to literacy, but even the Franks were doing this better.

Some of the best tangibles of the Reconquest were from adopting coinage and standards that were aligned with the rest of Europe, it led to the only real long-standing golden age Iberia had ever experienced. They similarly had such open inter-religious/ethnic cooperation, advances in medicine, infrastructure and natural philosophy that all predated Muslim rule in the peninsula.

>>17868448
Byzantine had lost like two thirds of its territory and entered a permanent decline while franks were just barbarian ooga boogas like visigoths

>>17868353 (OP)
In Spain we associate everything Islamic with obscurantis, backwardness and the whole Islamic period as an alien foreign invasion made by Semitic peoples.

That's why Muslims and Jews were expelled back to Maghreb and Asia after the reconquest of Granada by Spanish army.

>>17868471
By this metric Islamic Iberia was the weakest civilization of the three, and the Franks the strongest. When the Muslims took Iberia they were illiterate cavalry and infantrymen mostly. You can't argue in good faith because you have nothing worth saying. Just corrosive jewspiel.

>>17868480
This is the correct position.

>>17868353 (OP)
This was built by Iberians, not by 70 IQ desert monkeys

>>17868488
>illiterate
Your kang charlemagne was illiterate lmao

>>17868491
Al-Andalus people were highly mutted with Orientals tho.
Anyway, the Spanish architecture since the II century AD already used horseshoe arches. A lot of centuries before Islam was even a possibility to be born.

And Spanish architecture strongly used the horseshue arches before the Gregorian reformation pushed the Roman arch.

Picrel was a Leonese monastery from X century. San Miguel de Escalada. One of the few didn't reform during the arrival of Romanesque and Gothic motifs of the centuries that came later.

>>17868513
The Leonese monastery of San Cebrian de Mazote, in Valladolid, X century as well.

>>17868517
Monastery of San Sebastián, Toledo, specific for the nobility of the city (the Catholics that didn't converted to Islam during times of Jizya, persecutions, deportations, forced conversions and Jihads were granted the status of Hidalgo by the Kings later on, the Duke of Alba family came from them), XV century.

>>17868512
You took this statement of fact as a slight. I don't know why illiterate horsemen got so good at conquering everything in this era, but I'm more interested in these historical realities than bullshit narratives like, how all power emanated from enlightened urban centers. This simply did not exist in the west. Especially not in Islamic Iberia.

>>17868365
Most "turks" in the balkans were converted natives retard. Same for pakis

>>17868513
>Al-Andalus people were highly mutted with Orientals tho.
They weren't, they were essentially the same as modern Canarians. Even modern Moriscos in Morocco are still mostly Iberians

>>17868606
>They weren't, they were essentially the same as modern Canarians.
So, mutts?

The people living in the regions of Baetica, Carthaginensis and Lusitania before of Phoenician and Roman conquest were purebreed Basque-like y-DNA R1b populations.

And after the conquest they were Canary Islander tier oriental mutts with Oriental haplogroups.

South Spain went from Turdetanians, Iberians, Bastetanians, Carpetanians, Lusitanians and other tribes to a bunch of Oriental mutt goblins.

Asturians, Basques, Cantabrians, Galicians, Gascons and Aquitanians, basically the remaining Spaniards left, were the leading force in a Reconquista that was spiritual and racial.

>>17868596
Everywhere is people converting willinglly to Islam.

Then you go to the sources and it is basically Muslims pushing Jizya, forcing conversions, mistrating locals and even deportating them.

In the Turkish case add Jus Primae Noctis against Balkaners.
Serbs have good accounts from this.

>>17868369
I mean Armenians, Georgians, Alans. You know, millennary people which have lived there since Antiquity.

Not colonists sent by Muslim caliphs during Middle-Ages and Modernity to erase local identities.

it is interesting that the nations invaded by Islam count with a millennary presence in written records of ancient authors. From Spain to Balkans, Caucasus, Near East and India.

But the suddenly appearing during Dark Ages Muslim populations: Azerbaijan, Andalusians, Pakis, Dagueistanians, Albanians, etc., are totally of new stock, totally unrelated to local history. Never ever mentioned by ancient authors.

We all know they are basically Muslim colonist populations put in troublesome regions to erase natives authority, power and identities.

Muslims have been masters at this game for centuries.

>>17868480
Based

>>17868371
/This

>>17868371
Well deserved

>>17868399
>hittites
The Hittites were literally Indo-European you faggot