Are Sufis really even Islamic or something else? Sabbatai Zevi was involved with the Sufis after his false conversion to Islam iirc.

>>17870295 (OP)
Great question — and you're touching on a genuinely complex part of Islamic history. Here's a breakdown to make it clearer:


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Are Sufis Really Islamic?

Yes, Sufis are Islamic. Sufism is the mystical or spiritual tradition within Islam, much like Kabbalah in Judaism or Hesychasm in Orthodox Christianity. But it also diverges in emphasis and practice, which is why some question its "Islamic-ness."


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Why Sufis Are Considered Islamic:

Core beliefs: Sufis believe in the Shahada (the declaration of faith), pray, fast, and uphold the Qur’an and Sunnah.

Theological roots: Major Sufi thinkers (like al-Ghazali, Rumi, Ibn Arabi) operated within Islamic theology, even if they pushed its boundaries.

Historical acceptance: Most Sufi orders (ṭuruq) were recognized and integrated into Islamic empires—especially under the Ottomans, Mughals, and Safavids.

Sunni and Shi’a Sufis exist: There are both Sunni-aligned and Shi’a-aligned Sufi traditions.
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Why Some Muslims Reject or Criticize Sufism:

Innovation (Bid’ah): Some conservative Sunnis (esp. Wahhabis and Salafis) argue that Sufi practices like saint veneration, music/dance, and dhikr rituals are un-Islamic innovations.

Pantheistic language: Philosophers like Ibn Arabi spoke in terms that resemble monism or pantheism, which critics say contradict Islamic monotheism.

Cult-like behavior: Some orders (or specific sheikhs) have historically grown around strong personal loyalties, which rivals authority given only to Allah and Muhammad.


> In short: Sufis are within Islam, but their practices and metaphysics are sometimes controversial among other Muslims.

>>17872002
What About Sabbatai Zevi and the Sufis?

Yes, Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676) — the Jewish messianic figure who converted to Islam under pressure from the Ottomans — did associate with Bektashi Sufis afterward.

Key Points:

Zevi’s “conversion” was likely political, but he adopted mystical Islamic practices (including Sufi-style rituals).

The Bektashi Order he associated with was:

Extremely heterodox and syncretic

Strongly influenced by Shi'a, Christian, and even gnostic themes

Open to non-Muslims and secret rituals — so not representative of mainstream Sufism


Zevi’s followers (the Dönmeh) remained crypto-Jews outwardly practicing Islam, sometimes blending Kabbalah with Sufi elements.


> So yes, Zevi's connection to Sufism is real — but only to a specific, unorthodox fringe Sufi group, not mainstream Islam.
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So Is Sufism Just Islam or Something Else?

Depends on which Sufism you mean:

Type Rooted in Islam? Accepted by Muslims?

Classical Sufism (Rumi, al-Ghazali) Strongly Mostly
Philosophical Sufism (Ibn Arabi) Yes Controversial
Popular Sufi orders (Naqshbandi, Chishti) Yes Widely accepted
Fringe/mystical syncretic Sufism (Bektashi, Zevi's circles) Loosely Often rejected
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If you're interested, I can also map out how Sufism compares to Kabbalah or how Sufi metaphysics differs from orthodox Sunni theology.

>>17872002
>>17872003
Thanks chatgpt

>>17870295 (OP)
>are faggy losers twirling around in dresses really related to the cult of war and blood?
You tell me.

Yes they are Islamic

>>17872223
Most chechens are sufi and they're easily one of the most violent muslims