"well you see the Russian empire fell because it couldnt economically keep up and was unpopular with the common people"
>falls because of economic stagnation and unpopularity with the common people
name a more ironic event in history?

As I once read from some history book, Russia has two kinds of tragedies. When Russia refuses to change, and when Russia changes.

>>17870348 (OP)

The KGB-GRU didn't fell, though, its personnel liquidated.

That's the thing.

>>17870348 (OP)
if future events count: the US falling because it couldn't economically keep up and was unpopular with the common people

>>17870385
The whole story of the soviet union was that it destroyed a backwards outdated state, the American myth is more like they gained freedom from an empire
If you wanted to give america an ironic fate at least say that it lost freedom over time or something

>>17870348 (OP)
USSR was not unpopular with the regular person (had over 70% approval rating across the republics). It was purposely sabotaged and dismantled from the top down by the crypto bourgiousie elite behind Gorbachev that had formed and saw an opportunity to loot state assets into themselves.
Only region you can claim the USSR was "unpopular" was largely the Baltics, and even then we don't actually have strong data that it was the majority that believed that most were likely ambivilent. But we do know, that Lithuania literally voted in the same Communists back into power almost immediately lmao.

>>17870395

>>17870420
>had over 70% approval rating across the republics
Which is why when people voted all agreed to dismantle it. Kek

>>17870426
>Which is why when people voted all agreed to dismantle it. Kek
No they didn't you fucking retard. Only 22% of the population voted to end the USSR.

>>17870420
Gorbachev was trying to reform the economy but was surrounded by old retards
It is ironic Tsar Nicholas would've had an easier time improving the economy

>>17870433
Gorbachev was a naive idiot westaboo retard literally being puppeted by advisors and allies who were literally on the US payroll like Yakovlev, who was the real power of Gorby era USSR.
The Soviet economy had already been reformed and put back into black and improved growth by Andropov. Gorbachev's "Reforms" nuked the Soviet Economy 40 fucking percent.
Imagine a 40% drop in GDP in any modern Capitalist economy, it would be game over in a week.
Yakovlev/Gorbachev and then Yeltsin all played their role in dismantling the USSR. There is a reason Yakovlev is seen as a US national hero in elite US state department to this day.

>>17870443
From Wikipedia
...Despite such reforms, Andropov refused to consider any changes that sought to dispense with thePlanned economyintroduced underJoseph Stalin.

Panned economics always fail just ask Deng

>>17870443
What actually nuked Soviet Economy was low oil prices, bro.

>>17870427
>Only 22% of the population voted to end the USSR.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
Sure thing buddy

>>17870348 (OP)
Reds had to start a civil war and only won due to funding they received form American bankers and other shady sources.
When USSR collapsed, nobody gave a shit or raised a gun to defend communism.

The Soviet defense sector literally bled the country white; by 1985 it was an astonishing 60% of the country's total GDP.

EIK NAMO, RUSIŲ KAREIAI!

>>17870757
Yeah I heard that
the party was full of boomers veterans paranoid about an invasion of the USSR so they put the whole economy into their military
lmao

>>17870757
Khrushchev cut Soviet conventional forces; in doing so he pissed off the military and that was one of the big factors in his downfall. They then had their compliant puppet Brezhnev who'd let them do anything they wanted with no limits. Now in China Deng Xiaoping made cuts to defense spending which was unpopular with the army brass but they grudgingly accepted it because Deng had the cred and authority to get his way while Gorbachev did not.

>>17870453
Wow glowiepedia says that what caused the USSR to fall was Andropov actually engaging in logical reforms, instead of just nuking the Economy with Freemarket bullshit like Gorby did.
Glasnost and Perestroika killed the USSR and were functionally designed too. The USSR economically was not that bad off even at the end of Brezhnev era.
>>17870508
Soviet economy died completely due to Gorbachev's reforms. Andropov was able to largely improve and start reforming Soviet systems through massive structural anti-corruption and efficiency measures.
Gorbachev again, was a complete and total fucking RETARD that was being puppeted by literal actual tratiors who's goal was to destroy the USSR. They didn't even really hide this fact "Hit at Marxism with Social Democracy, hit at Social Democracy with Liberalism". They succeeded, the counter-revolution won.

>>17870825
Gorbachev was literally Andropov's protege. :|

>>17870829
Gorbachev was a sychophantic little cocksucker who only was put in power because he literally was in charge of a retreat where he basically gave handjobs to the Party Elite.
Andropov made the big mistake of giving the shitlib neoliberal clique traitors of the Leningrad Law School a seat at the reforms table, who were able to seize total control under Gorby by being the devils worshipping in his Westaboo ears and institute their ""reforms"".
Without Yakovlev, the USSR would 99.9% still be around today, though again, likely look more like China.

>>17870849
and thankfully it isn't

see >>17870768

>>17870825
Saying Glasnost ruined the USSR is like saying the Epstein files ruined Donald Trump
WTF do you mean journalistic freedom killed the USSR!?

>>17870348 (OP)
>falls because of economic stagnation
Lol
>unpopularity with the common people
Lmao even.

>>17870519
>Ukrainian

>>17870768
Horsehead please, you country hadbn't exported anything but suicide rates since it's independence.

>>17870859
There are some things that should be hidden from the public for it's own good. The criticisms of soviet system were one of them, the deeds of trump on epstein island is another. You just can't let people have knowledge about the bad stuff so they can't be influenced by it. Don't let that evil propaganda reach the masses!

>>17870867
>hmmm ashually this part of the USSR is not the USSR!
Is this your best argument?

>>17870907
Not to mention theyre probably the closest cultural and ethnically to Russians, I would maybe see anon's point if it were the Baltics or some Asian country

>>17870427
Brother. Are you fucking retarded? The referendum that you mention was not about the approval of the USSR, it was about who supported CHANGING HOW IT WORKS.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum
Why are communist so fucking nefarious? They always lie about everything to fit their religion. The first referemdum about the disolution of the USSR as anon pointed out
>>17870519
Was a massive blow to the legitimacy of the USSR.

>>17870453
>planned economies can't function because they're planned economies
nice argument bro

>>17870757
The soviets were in an asymmetrical fight with the rest of the liberal world. Essentially, from a purely mathematical pov, given their numerical and influential inferiority, the soviets had to spend more on the army than on other sectors, which on the long term meant less thing for the public sector.

>>17870829
>interview by newspapers with Gorbachev in Ankara, Turkey, later published multiple news outlet
>"My ambition was to liquidate communism, the dictatorship over all the people. Supporting me and urging me on in this mission was my wife, who was of this opinion long before I was. I knew that I could only do this if I was the leading functionary. In this my wife urged me to climb to the top post. While I actually became acquainted with the West, my mind was made up forever. I decided that I must destroy the whole apparatus of the CPSU and the USSR. Also, I must do this in all of the other socialist countries. My ideal is the path of social democracy."
>https://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv6n1/gorbach.htm

tldr is that the other anon is right, the USSR got dismantled because an elite circle convinced by liberal ideas lead a revolution from within. Btw Gorby literally created a social-democrat party in Russia in 2007. Had Andropov named

>>17871680
Had Andropov lived longer, adopted OGAS, reiterated the Kosygin reforms, changed and reformed the politburo and finally crackdown on corruption/inefficiency, then the USSR could've lived longer. This isn't some alternate history too, it's quite literally the program that Andropov wished to implement but couldn't due to a liver failure.
Even Hobsbawm pointed it out in 2005 :
>"On the other hand, the sudden collapse of the USSR was neither probable nor expected before the late 1980s. A prominent CIA figure interviewed by Professor Fred Halliday of the LSE thought that, supposing Andropov had survived in good health, there would still have been a USSR in the 1990s - clumsy, inefficient, in slow and perhaps accelerating economic decline, but still in being."
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/mar/09/russia.comment

>>17870443
>Westaboo
The West is objectively better in every metric. The system isn't perfect, but its the only one even vaguely approaching reasonable human conditions. You don't have to be an -aboo to be pro-Western, you have to be an -aboo to be anything else.

>>17871715
>The system isn't perfect, but its the only one even vaguely approaching reasonable human conditions
Shouldn't we try to improve it then ?

>The West is objectively better in every metric
Mate even using broad capital trends as metrics socialist countries and policies manage to have higher success

>>17870420
>USSR was not unpopular with the regular person (had over 70% approval rating across the republics).
It was accepted and considered legitimate by most people. The plot twist is that this was mainly because it was the only system most of the population ever knew (unless they were really old). But by the end, nobody really believed in the ideology, which meant they didn't fight to preserve it when it collapsed. People didn't know what was going on, but the system had already depoliticized them to a remarkable degree. The official doctrine of Marxism-Leninism had practically no relevance to the bulk of the population. What the system provided was a stable job for your stable, quiet life.

>It was purposely sabotaged and dismantled from the top down by the crypto bourgiousie elite behind Gorbachev
Okay maybe but the party establishment were big retards who didn't want to change even though they still needed to.

>>17870776
>the party was full of boomers veterans paranoid about an invasion of the USSR so they put the whole economy into their military
>lmao
That's only half of it. Ideology is kind of a mask for economic interests. They had jobs and privileges as directors of state-owned factories that would melt down tanks produced across the street to turn into raw materials to make more tanks in order to scrap them to turn into tanks which would be scrapped, etc., and they didn't know how to do anything else, so obviously believing in some invasion from NATO is something they wanted to believe in.

This was not an efficient economy. USSR was like this:
https://youtu.be/-hyttagGsz0

>>17871715
What has the USSR produced culturally? I find it weird that even tho my parents are from the USSR I still find more in common with capitalists America in the 80s and 90s
The West had nintendo, video game consoles, Saturday morning cartoons, ect.
I will admit Russian music is quite nice but the only other thing Russia is known for is Tetris, and apparently it was a headache to even licence because the Soviets couldn't predict a smash hit
>>17871680
>>planned economies can't function because they're planned economies
You think China is still a planned economy

>>17871991
No china isn't a planned economy

>>17870426

>>17870348 (OP)
The Soviet Union didn't collapse in 1991, it simply changed its flag. Moscow remained the metropoly of the "post-Soviet" world until 2014. It is only thanks to Putin that we are finally witnessing the end of communist/Moscovian rule over the people of North Eurasia. Hopefully, it will all end with the people of the so-called Russian Federation aka RSFSR receiving their independence and freedom.

>>17870859
Glasnosts press was lying through its teeth

>>17872856
>unrelated picture
>he unironically thinks that communism is seeing positively in Czechia or Hungary
Off yourself tankie scum

>>17870871
>>17873426
there is an inherient hypocrasy in communism in that the people will rise up against their masters but once they start to disagree then they need to be re-educated on the right path
I would say that 80% of people will always be drones following the current system but that is because I am an elitist
what excuse do you have as a communist?

>>17870420
bitcoin wasn't invented until 2009 schizo

>>17870443
>soviet leaders were cia
thirdie cope is unreal