why do people argue with me when i say this?
have you seen insect life, it's fucking brutal

>>17905435 (OP)
okay, but do insects suffer

>>17905503
This
Can you suffer if you don't even know suffering?
Do humans themselves even truly know suffering?

demiurge hylics will defend the matrix nonsensically

people who are soulless and material cannot understand beyond their prison

>>17905509
>Do humans themselves even truly know suffering?
Yes, but we very rarely reflect on just how grim our situation is.

>>17905512
Is it really suffering if you're required to reflect on it to realize it?

>>17905525
Yes. Wisdom often gives us a way to cope with the suffering or a way to avoid the behaviors and things that cause it.

>>17905525
>I shit on your face
>you philosophize on it nonsensically

lol it just means I shit on your face and this place is retarded

>>17905503
Yes

>>17905435 (OP)

Life is suffering. But Christ provides rest.

>>17905533
If you shat on someone's face it wouldn't require reflection to realize this you retard. Your strawman doesn't even work

>>17905503
i think suffering is useful in a survival based world so yes

>>17905531
>Yes
Why? If this requires a level of reflection, are you not effectively just creating your own suffering by reducing the complexity of your own life down to personal dilemma?

>>17905538
If your entire life, from the day you were born until the day you figured out the scam, someone shit on your head and told you it was normal, you would take it as normal. You might not like it, but if you were convinced that it was the natural order then you would accept it as just a part of life. A lot of the bad stuff in our life is basically being shit on. Then you use philosophy to destroy the faulty reasoning employed to keep you being shit on. Or you use philosophy to begin the process of scientific investigation. And with that then you can create technology to end the head-shitting tyranny. You might realize before your reflection that you're in a shitty situation, but you won't be able to understand just how less shitty life could be.

>>17905540
>effectively just creating your own suffering
Yes

>>17905435 (OP)
This question illicits the same copes, mainly that suffering isn't actually real or that it is necessary for something

>>17905542
>If your entire life, from the day you were born until the day you figured out the scam, someone shit on your head and told you it was normal, you would take it as normal. You might not like it, but if you were convinced that it was the natural order then you would accept it as just a part of life.
Would you though? That's like saying you wouldn't know that a sunburn is bad even if you spend most of your life outside.

>>17905535

THIS.

>>17905542
>You might not like it
Then by your own standard this wouldn't require any level of reflection to realize.
The reason you need to resort to such extreme strawmen examples to make your point, is because that's the only way you can weasel your way around accusations of negativity bias when examining the condition of existence. You are not as clever as you think you are.

>>17905435 (OP)
>why do people argue with me when i say this?
There is suffering in life, that doesn't mean life is nothing but suffering.

oOoOoh my soience! not the heckin' caterpillarinoroos!!! why would a loving god do this! it's just like that episode of rick and morty where they eat a caterniggar, IM PICKLE RICK, morty.. PICKLE RICK!!

>>17905553
my life is like a video game

One could argue life is neither suffering nor hedonistic when generalizing it. Negativity bias is a result of evolutionary pressure to improve our lives to ensure a prosperous existence. It's more like an endless tug-of-war between seeking pleasure and realizing suffering.

>>17905435 (OP)
Nope, life is dukkha
>insect life
Yes, most life sucks ass. A lot of it is also desirable however, to the uneducated

>>17905534
>>17905539
Insects respond to pain stimuli, they express caution and fear, BUT that doesn't mean that they are capable of suffering.

To me, suffering has to have an awareness of itself, sort of like how the consciousness is aware of itself, and therefore can observe itself from a displaced meta-perspective. Suffering isn't the pain itself, it's the awareness that you are in pain.

>>17905646
pain is pain

>>17905646
Exactly, much like how babies are incapable of suffering even though they cry and try to move away from "painful" stimulus

>>17905435 (OP)
If life is bad like you claim why haven't you killed yourself?

>>17905656
>he thinks insects are equal to humans
Lmao you are a retard if you think animals also are exactly the same as man. Humans are superior to animals in every way conceivable

>>17905646
>yes you may be eaten alive from the inside by parasitoid wasp larvae, but you are NOT SUFFERING because... um, well, because I said so!

>>17905791
No one said anything about "superiority", you egotistical moron.

>>17905784
i tried and failed

>>17905817
Even if the bug is being eaten inside out it has no earthly idea what the fuck is happening, and cannot reflect on that. There MAY be pain (there is literally 0 evidence that insects feel pain), but it isn't suffering.

If an insect gets its wing or body damaged, it will keep attempting to move how it's always moved, until it dies or falls apart. A bee will kill itself before considering another alternative. That's because 1. bees dont know what death is, 2. bees are incapable of "considering" anything.

Insects are so low on the cognitive ladder, they're hardly more than automatons.

>>17905849
So, the same as a human infant.

>>17905503
yes
it's natures way of making you try to survive
nature makes your body and mind work as hard as it can to survive and make babies especially in a jungle full of random hostile alien forces competing with you
it doesn't matter if you're miserable and get eaten by your wife afterward just make babies

>>17905435 (OP)
Life is suffering.
Suffering is necessary for life.
Misery is suffering for no good reason.
Either suffer or die. But don’t inflict misery.
Very simple. Don’t cry about it.
Maybe “suffering” is a loaded word at this point; it implies things which it doesn’t necessarily include. But you suffer when you learn a skill, or when you exercise your body, and you feel good afterwards.

>>17905908
Not at all, youre a weird creep who should probably be executed for even considering something like that.

>>17905843
Then I guess life isn't so bad since you are still alive and haven't tried again.

>>17905817
A human life is worth more than a mere beast of the land. So your analogy of a baby is meaningless since it has the brain power to be able to quantify suffering while a bug or hell even regular livestock will never be as smart as a human

>>17905938
>Grr, internet comment make me think, me get mad, ME KILL
Okay caveman nigger retard.

>>17906016
Any fully grown livestock animal is more intelligent, capable and understanding than a human infant, which is an unthinking automaton that does nothing but cry and shit itself.

You can literally just kill yourself any time. Unless you're strapped and incapacitated in some rape dungeon, you can always just literally kill yourself any time you want. It's crazy how easy mode life is because you can always speedrun it by chucking yourself out the window. I never suffered, if I did I'd just kill myself immediately to end the suffering. I'm often bored but I got tons of distractions that help me going. I got a shit job that pays the bills and videogames to provide me with flashing images. If these things are ever taken from me and I'm subjected to suffering I can just kill myself.

>>17905791
Seeing your post made me realize that animals may actually be superior, for none of them would post such stupidity. Thanks for proving my point.

Who the fuck argues with this? Do they live perfect lives that they say it isnt true?
Better even, do they not die that they dont suffer?
The proof that suffering is "real" is that everyone fucking dies.

I say it in quotes because there are ways out of suffering (not by becoming immortal or committing suicide, that too is suffering, but by transforming how you see the world)

>>17905932
kinda like the guy who bangged his head with a hammer because it felt good when he stopped

>>17906093
Actually, death would prove that suffering isn't real since death brings peace, but i get what you mean.

>>17905435 (OP)
because life has many more aspects than just suffering

>>17906089
Lmao ok. So what great technological advancements have the bear made? What great works of art has a snake made? Absolutely retarded of you to think animals animal is equal to even a fraction of man.
Yes even you (despite how mentally deficient you are) are still above animals. Barely.

>>17906038
And yet that infant still has more growing potential which makes it infinitely more valuable. Try and teach a cow Mozart, how long will it be able to play the piano. Show a pig rocket science and tell me how long it will take until pigs form a space program. You can't? Oh want to know why? Because animal brains are physically incapable of gaining knowledge of that grand nature compared to humans.

>>17906010
your a nigger

>>17906405
humans are animals

>>17906411
>growing potential
So first it's "you need to be smart to suffer" and now it's "you need to be smart at some point in your life to suffer", so which is it? Can you just make up your own mind?
An adult wild animal can track and kill live prey, a baby lacks even basic motor coordination. Ergo, if wild animals can't suffer, neither can babies, or even most toddlers.

>>17905509
You don't know suffering, retard. You feel suffering.

>>17905435 (OP)
Gautama Buddha figured this out 2500ish years ago and claimed to have found a way out. He said it is your craving for things that leads to this suffering. But good news: there is an end to the suffering that is possible. He devised the Eightfold Path to help you get out of it.
>just kill yourself
To the Dharmic minded person, this is only a temporary solution as you will be born endlessly unless you find a way to liberate yourself from the cycle of death and rebirth. A human life is said to be very fortunate, as you have the opportunity to practice the Dharma. Don't waste it.

>>17906607
>Gautama Buddha figured this out 2500ish years ago
No he didn't
He claimed that one of life unavoidable elements is dukkha(that is not translated to suffering) but he never claimed that life IS dukkha

>>17906607
There is no proof for reincarnation

>>17906477
*Humans are superior to animals*
Ftfy
>>17906470
You're. Lmao also no rebuttal. Keep crying about your poor animalrinos

Life itself is a gift.
This post is kind of similar to the Calvinist belief that God no longer provides divine gifts.

>>17906817
There is no proof of annihilation after death, Sheol, or heaven/hell either.

>life has over 9000 different feelings and abstract qualities in many different times and places
>I'm going to form an opinion that one single feeling or abstract quality "is life" and argue it like it's obvious and people who point to other aspects of life are wrong
>I watched a nature documentary and all I saw was... le suffering! yeah that seems right I'm going to tell bro

If you see a collection of concrete objects, you don't say "it's that one thing, the paperclip". Likewise, you don't see suffering, pleasure, beauty and ugliness in life and say "hey guys it's this one thing. at last I truly see". One observes suffering. Often times, if it's bad enough and one can't handle it, it disrupts attention and pain becomes intolerable. Other times, an organism is not suffering. When an organism is suffering, it has other qualities simulteously. There are abstract qualities in things and relations between things that humans don't or can't pick up on. Reality is diverse, complex, multifaceted. The only simple, binary ontological quality is existing or not existing. Everything beyond that involves more complexity and detail in comparison.

>>17906854
Yes and?

>>17907440
You don't hear it? The echoes of eternity?

The only thing real is waking and rubbing your eyes.

>>17907673
What point are you making? I do not care what happens after I die. What matters is the one life I am given.
Either way Buddah, Jesus, irrelevant. Life isn't suffering it is what you make of it.

>>17907696
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die! Philosophers often recommend memento mori, contemplating your death, practicing it. But you don't appear interested in that and deny that you suffer when you don't get what you want. You fill your life with things that cannot satisfy you. Akin to wealth and fame, it is like seawater that makes you more thirsty the more you drink (to paraphrase Schopenhauer).

>Are you satisfied? Brother are you satisfied with the way that you've been living your life?

>>17905503
fpbp. afaik, insects don't actually feel pain.

>>17905435 (OP)
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME NONEXISTENCE

>>17905503
yes even more so than humans

>>17908448
According to a legend recounted by Aristotle and later by other philosophers, King Midas captured Silenus, a companion of the god Dionysus known for his wisdom. When asked what was the best thing for a human, Silenus famously replied that the very best thing is not to be born at all, and the second best thing is to die as soon as possible.

>>17907728
What the hell is all this projection? Meds

>>17905435 (OP)
suffering builds character

>>17910021
Only when its relatively minor and temporary, otherwise it just breaks people down. People who experience to much just end up a complete mess.

>>17910021
>t.

>>17908434
They do indeed feel pain. Not only that, but they have memories and aversions to pain.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13412-butterflies-remember-caterpillar-experiences/

>>17910085
good

>>17905435 (OP)
Reality is depressing when you think about it too much, which is why most people aren't capable of recognizing the harsh and random nature of existence. They have mental blocks that prevent those thoughts from coming to fruition, it's basically the brain's coping mechanism so we don't self-destruct.

Life isn't suffering. Most people simply choose not to actually experience what life has to offer them. People are told they shouldn't jack off or get high on weed even though these are things that partially make life more worth living because we've caged ourselves behind moral baggage.

>>17905553
I look like this and I say this.

>>17910820
Funny R*ddit take, I like it.

>I get to smoke weed and jerk off without feeling qualms about either, atheism rocks! Life is great with my bong and porn site

>>17905646
It's amazing the mental gymnastics people use to justify inflicting pain on others when it's not in self defense. Another round in Samsara for you.

>>17911680
I'm not justifying anything, I'm saying how it is
I don't hurt insects just because they are a lower form of life, that would be barbaric

>>17905435 (OP)
Okay, kill yourself then

>>17905646
then what can and can't suffer?
can cats suffer?

>>17908434
retarded reddit myth. all living things feel pain. they couldn't exist or survive past infancy if they didn't.

>>17907673
What specific sound does "eternity" make?

>>17911673
If life is suffering why haven't everyone killed themselves?

>>17905503
insects are people who were sent to hell

>>17912374
insects are cute, I protect and feed the little caterpillars in my garden. there's no way they're from hell, they look too cute sitting munching their lil' leaves.

>>17905435 (OP)
Damn then why am i not feeling anything

It's not just suffering, it's how meaningless most of it is. There's no development or betterment that results from it. Millions of chickens get blended into paste just to provide food for people, this world is comically evil.