Thread 17919128

>History’s Biggest Rewrite: The Death of Jesus — with Dr. Louay Fatoohi
>https://youtu.be/rnLO4d30F0U
who killed the judeo-christian version of jesus?!
the jews or the romans?
(spoiler: christians said back then it was the jew, BUT nowaday they all inclduding vatican say it was the romans and not the jews)
why do christians flipflop their opinion as if religion is just an argument like that?!

>>17919128 (OP)
THE JEWS!

>>17919128 (OP)
21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children

>>17919247
And this is supposed to be an eternal blood curse on all Jews everywhere including the ones who had nothing to do with this decision.

>>17919128 (OP)
I mean it just was the jews. The Romans didn't give a shit and would have had no reason to care about crucifying some random guy preaching about a religion they didn't practice other than the Judeans telling them to. The obvious flaw with the antisemtism is that Jesus was a jew as well.

Jesus died on the cross.

>>17919251
The Jews are no longer gods chosen people since they crucified Christ, only the ones that convert to Christianity can be

>>17919586
Where does it say that in the Bible anon?

>>17919586
Chosen by who and which God? Because to me their "god" smells like a fishy hole

>>17919612
I am an agnostic/atheist but if you read the new testament you will find it

In Christian belief, the concept of being "chosen" has shifted from the Israelites to all who have faith in Jesus Christ, as outlined in the New Testament. This means that Christians are considered God's chosen people based on their faith rather than their ethnic lineage

Any church that waves the Israeli flag and calls the Jews/israel the chosen ones are of the synagogue of satan

>>17919819
Yeah I remember that but I just dont know where Jewish people get that they were the chosen anything

>>17919128 (OP)
Neither the Jews nor the Romans are responsible for killing Jesus. It was the archons.

>>17919905
Deuteronomy 7:6
Also to a lesser extent the covenant with Abraham.

>>17919128 (OP)
I mean, just read the gospels, they literally say the Romans were the ones who actually killed Jesus. The jews were assigned blame for accusing Jesus to the Romans in the first place, and it's probably historically accurate that the leading Jews of Jerusalem saw him as a blasphemous trouble-maker, and his followers claiming he was the messiah meant he had pretentions of being the king of the Jews (see the plaque put above his cross). In that era, claiming to be the king was associated with rebels and false prophets who gathered crowds and caused trouble, Jesus would have been seen as just one of many bandits or deceivers of the people, which is why he's crucified alongside two "robbers", the Greek word could also be translated "bandit" or "rebel" which is more fitting for the context.

But again, just read the gospels. In Mark, Pilate doesn't absolve himself and just goes along with what the Jewish Sanhedrin tell him. Later gospels try to absolve the Roman authorities, probably to avoid claims that Christians were rebelling against civil order. But even then, they still include the Roman soldiers beating the shit out of Jesus and humiliating him.

TL;DR both the Jewish and Roman authorities were involved in killing Jesus. Modern political bullshit need not apply.

It was the Jews. This is explicitly stated in the Gospels.

Nobody, he didn't exist. Grow up grasshoppers. Bibles are jew novels.

>>17919128 (OP)
New Testament Novel Author Jesus

>>17919128 (OP)
>BUT nowaday they all inclduding vatican say it was the romans and not the jews
No, the Catholic Church has said it was not "all Jews" meaning that Mary the Mother of God was not responsible but the Jewish rabble who then were enslaved by the Roman Empire by God were responsible.

>>17919946
No Saint Paul directly blames the entire Jewish people for murdering God's only son

>>17920294
No he doesn't, he blames jews who have rejected God's messiah. Paul was jewish himself, how the fuck would he reject the entire jewish people? His analogy of the olive tree shows that he still thought the jewish people were the base of God's chosen even though some had fallen away. He says the olive tree is Israel, and some rotten branches have been broken off (faithless jews) and some branches of wild olive grafted in (faithful gentiles), but he still has hope for the broken branches to be grafted back in. His entire point is that faith makes you a member of Israel, not blood, there's no way to fit a racial exclusion into Paul's theology.

>>17919128 (OP)
>the jews or the romans?
The Romans on behalf of the Jews.

Simple.

>>17920415
1 Thessalonian 2 has this gem: "For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and drove us out; they displease God and oppose everyone by hindering us from speaking to the gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they have constantly been filling up the measure of their sins, but wrath has overtaken them at last."

I think it has to be an interpolation, personally, though the "wrath has overtaken them at last" bit is just weird. What could it be referring to? The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans seems like the most natural object, but Paul would've been dead by then, and even if someone had interpolated this into the letter, you'd think they should've known that it couldn't be historical if that's what they were referring to.

>>17919145
And retards actually think this happened.

>>17920268
John the Baptist, editor-in-chief.

>>17919128 (OP)
the Vatican says the jews who actively called for his death at the time are the ones to blame, but the sinful, fallen nature of all mankind is also to blame in a less direct way

>>17922095
The Vatican says a lot of things.

>>17919128 (OP)
THE KIKES DID IT

>>17919145
They admitted their own guilt in the old testament. Isaiah 53

>>17919128 (OP)
>why do christians flipflop their opinion as if religion is just an argument like that

the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.

After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven

The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

I have not come to bring peace, but a sword

a sword will pierce even your own soul

She saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot

>>17919145
>THE JEWS!
ALL the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

>>17924368
>the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
>God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.
>After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life
>I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
>The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
>Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
>I have not come to bring peace, but a sword
>a sword will pierce even your own soul
>She saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot
wtf

>>17919145
/thread

>>17919145
this

>>17920200
Which Jews? Jesus was a Jew, did he kill himself? The disciples were all Jews, did they kill him? The followers of Jesus, all Jews. Only later did Saul/Paul retcon the religion and open it to Gentiles without requiring circumcision.

Note: the same Paul who opened the floodgates to Europeans was also a Jew, never even met Jesus. Sure, he claimed to have a vision, but a stroll through any mental institution will uncover many people who have had visions of all sorts of things.

>>17920521
What, you've never seen a whole crowd of people collectively shout that they're guilty of murder and their children should be held responsible?

>>17924445
fuck off kike

>>17919128 (OP)
>>17919128 (OP)
The Romans killed Jesus. Jews don't execute with crucifixion, the Jews would have stoned him.

BUT the establishment Jews were wanting his arrest and execution. There were many different sects of Judaism those days and many claiming to be the Messiah, Jews were usually tolerant of divergent religious beliefs BUT Jesus had just caused a small riot by throwing the money changers out of the Temple. Jews weren't gonna have a new upstart faith disrupt their financial operation.

So both parties are liable. Paul wanting to "Romanize" Jesus's message for public acceptability shifted the blame away from the Romans.

>>17926760
>shifted the blame away from the Romans
a jew wrote this

>>17926778
Yes Paul was a Jew.

>>17926753
actualy both are true

>>17927251
jews are semites
and they killed an aother semites
who the fuck cares

>>17919608
John 8:44
and 20 other passages just in the NT

>>17920424
Preach brother

the kikes did it

Second Temple Judaism was a highly centralized ethnic religion run by a class of professional grifters which Jesus tried to reform by undermining the temple cult and breaking the ethnic component so it could integrate the various greeks and other non-jewish people who lived in the area.

Second Temple Judaism ceased to exist with the destruction of the second temple. Rabbinical Judaism is the decentralized continuation of the remnants of Judaism after the final Roman-Jewish war.

It's not helpful to compare the two

>>17927697
and yet this very same secund temple was part of the same religion of that "god"