What is she talking about, i went to the homepage of this museum, couldn't find any cheap looking or photographic paintings from the 19th century.
Speaking of cheap, her husband, or whatever their postmodern relationship is, is literally tracing ai slop.

>>7583836

first thing that came to mind reading that was Bouguereau's stuff. He was really good but just because he is so amazing and everything is rendered out the ass it becomes kinda boring. Seen one, seen them all.

This is cheap looking, 19th century slop?

And thats the real beauty of human figure?

>>7583840
Yeah sure, Sargent was the biggest master on earth, and Bouguereau is slop.
Why are Americans like this?
This old guy, has nothing better to do, as to make a hit piece on the French. And galzing his Boston School slop in every video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu2YavHW0Gg

>>7583836
>uber natural
>figurative tropes
>artifice
I refuse to believe this means anything

>>7583836
Woman discovers cubism

>>7583894
>uber natural
I think she is speaking about the Platonic idea of ideal form. But she will paint naturalistic people, fat and ugly, old etc.
>figurative tropes
Yeah, basically the same criticism of Platonism, Romanism and Idealism.
I mean its the same shit, American white women are talking all day long: body positivity, representation of ethnic minorities, deconstruction of Christianity and Western beauty.
>artifice
I had to google that one. The translation makes no sense in any language i know, so no idea what she meant by that. Probably its written with chatgpt.
But i would be surprised if its not the same postmodern/progressive talking points.

>>7583909
> Romanticism

>>7583847

it's not my opinion, but me trying to empathize with the point she is wanting to make. And yeah, Sargent is a legit more appealing artist to me personally than Boog, though I would never dream of calling the latter's stuff slop. Sargent could paint something with a few brushstrokes that reads like the real thing when viewed from the intended distance. Sometimes less is more and I personally admire that. Shoot me.

I asked about mixing pumice stone into the gesso last week. What if I mix a bit of pumice directly into the oil paint? That should be ok, right?

>>7583989
What for?

>>7583995
to add texture, some rough gritty texture upon which I can apply even more paint later on

>make one comment using sargent as an example
>forget about post and go about my day
>autists derail an entire thread missing the whole point of the original post while seething at Sargent
I forgot how retarded and obsessive people on this website are

I WILL paint exclusively hot women and muscular men and there's NOTHING you can do about it

>>7584038
> I WILL paint
Doubt.
>>7583998
Sounds dumb.

>>7584018

the fuck

>>7584018
more like one autist seething about imagined slights against burgeristan

>>7584054
I choose the most patriotic Sargent painting for the op-pic, hopefully it will make him a little bit less butthurt.

Whats his problem? He is just making shit up, there is no problem with the feet. He is just a toxic hater.

>>7584107
what the fuck is spotting

>>7583841
>>7583840
Bouguereau is not a naturalist. He also didn't use photos. Everyone assumes anyone who learns "academic methods" of which Bouguereau himself didn't even use to draw, is all the same, so they must instantly mean Bouguereau, when Gammell himself wrote in his biography that he was aware that not all realist painters were the same and many had degraded the medium.
>Rendered
You have no clue what the fuck you're talking about Bouguereau doesn't render he uses luminosity, but his shadows and values are not extreme. He uses color shifts with the same values, it's not rendering.
>>7583836
Why do you give a shit what Colleen Barry says?
>>7584107
Paul and American "realists" were impressionist influenced, they explicitly make distinct "impressionist" and "post impressionist." to differentiate "Shit I like" and "Shit I don't like."
However that isn't exactly it, because most academics get down render monkeying fairly quick, and detail fairly quick so in some level then what comes after is almost always going to be the action of judging the position and placement of the model and similar minor critiques.
It's just their way of going "I don't like your work."

That's his work btw.
God, i hate pretentious hacks hating on Bougi so much.
>>7584110
Not sure, a saw a video of him on this topic. In the end, its just composition with some extra steps and packaged in obscure words.

>>7584114
>God, i hate pretentious hacks hating on Bougi so much
Who would hate Bougey and why?

>>7584114
Well now that's a small oil sketch used as more of a cartoon on his website, you can't cherry pick shit just to make the man look bad.
Or to try and make him seem like he isn't of a similar painting branch as Bouguereau too.

>>7584113
> Bouguereau is not a naturalist
I wrote about it >>7583909
Who else was she talking about? Bougi is THE 19th century figure painter from France.
> his shadows and values are not extreme
They are though, some are extreme compressed in value.
>>7584113
> It's just their way of going "I don't like your work."
I dont get what you mean.
>>7584118
> Who would hate Bougey and why?
Its like a tradition between modernists. Monet and his friends were seething HARD, those fuckers were jealous as fuck. They knew they will never beat Bougi at his game, so they invented a whole new genre, lold.
>>7584125
> Or to try and make him seem like he isn't of a similar painting branch as Bouguereau too.
Low effort bait, fren.
I mean, he is not bad. But not even close to Bougi. Your pic looks like if its painted by a women.

>>7584047
>Doubt.
Fuck you, I wasn't even going to but now I will just to spite you. Eat shit.

>>7584133
>I think she is speaking about the Platonic idea of ideal form
I believe you.
Colleen is probably retarded and has no clue her contemporaries use "naturalism" to describe painting fat brown people.
>Who else was she talking about? Bougi is THE 19th century figure painter from France.
And yet he is unique, leading figure, not most influential, you don't see anyone paint how he can.
>They are though, some are extreme compressed in value.
You're misunderstanding the color and tint shifting he achieves in his skin with values, greyscale any of his paintings and they will lose the uniqueness.
>I dont get what you mean.
It sincerely just means "I don't like something about your work but cannot say that directly so I need to critique the models and blame it on you."
>I mean, he is not bad. But not even close to Bougi. Your pic looks like if its painted by a women.
I didn't say he was good, I don't care for Ingbretson, I simply said you picked out a oil sketch cartoon instead of a good work, the fact is Ingbretson is an American realist who took the impressionist cool aid, but he still believes in "Academic drawing." and "practice."

>>7584140
> I simply said you picked out a oil sketch cartoon instead of a good work
I did, he was arguing about Bougi in bad faith, i did the same.
> I believe you.
I dont really know eighter, she is doing what l'américaine refer to as sublime dissing. So im not even sure who is meant.
Anyway.
19th century, the academic school in France was very strong, photography was low contrast and black and white. Like i dont know what exactly he is referring to, but back in the days it was technically impossible to do modern style photorealism.
> You're misunderstanding the color and tint shifting he achieves in his skin with values
His values are very compressed, he is turning form with hues mostly. When you turn his pictures black and grey, its crazy how small the value range for the skin is.
> you don't see anyone paint how he can
As i said, you cant beat him at his game, so most people dont even try to. I mean the same is true for Sargent.

/trad/ is the funniest shit ever. 30 replies in. No one has posted his/her own work. And ongoing trenches about some minute art history things. I love it.

>>7584390
Ppl be yapping

>>7584413
the wannabe influencer artist is here too

Do I need to wait 6 months to varnish an oil painting? It feels dry, looks dry (it's been about 2 months), used thin layers of paint- waiting 6 months seems like too long. Why do we need to wait that long?

>>7584449
only those who don't know how to mix paint have to wait

>>7583835 (OP)
Can you practice oil painting with a tablet

>>7585068
Definitely. Just use your laptop screen as the canvas bro

Always fucking Sargent and Bouguereau
Why be a 19th century guy.

>>7585068
No.
At best you can use it for compositions.

>>7585624
19th century methods are the only surviving ones in this day and age, at least in terms of schooling.
That's the answer no one wants to admit but it is.

Speaking of we should start an archive of these guys shit talking each other

>>7586155
This guy is tracing ai slop, how is his shit relevant to anything?

>>7583836
Nude portrayed as close to reality as possible is less appealing compared to idealized or even stylized version of that nude, hence "artifice".
This is akin to "photorealism boring" which makes sense.

>>7586161
Have another. This is as deep into his Xitter as I go.

>>7586228
What does it supposed to mean, even?

>>7586228
imagine training that deeply in representational art to make the equivalent of memes. imagine if this dude legitimiately expunged the liberal propaganda from his mind and put his talents to still lifes, landscapes, whatever. im not even saying change the subject away from africa or african americans, but just do a serious velazquez landscape with moors on horses or something fucking GOOD. Talent is wasted on the tasteless bro.

>>7586333
You dont get postmodernism, this is exactly whats intended. The point is to deconstruct the old masters. The point is to make the same but ugly and amateurish. The point is to replace the white man, to shit on his values and to diminish his achievements by making fun of him.
Its not even a theory or something, its what it is. You take something that's sacral and you put it down, into the realm of the profane.

>>7584113
>it's not rendering.
This sounds like you are using a much more specific definition of "rendering" than seems to be the common jargon.
Can you elaborate on what you consider to be "rendering" vs "not rendering"?

The ways people utilize phaedrus's knife always interests me.

>>7586355
> The point is to deconstruct the old masters.
Of course, the plan is to deconstruct everything, nothing maters, nothing exists, people are tabula rasas, just clay in the hands of the elites.
Destroying the Old Masters, the culture and Christianity is really just the beginning.
And they already won, by the way. Now they are just repeating themselves for the last 50 years.
Thats the thing. There is not 1 single living artist, who nows the techniques of the old masters.

>>7584114
I get the impression that this is a still life of a ceramic statue or plastic toy.
>>7584157
>i did the same.
You have to meet bad faith with sincerity. Holding fast to sincerity rapidly reveals the sham of bad faith actors. If you meet bad faith with bad faith it just turns everything to shitflinging.
A lot of people are used to meeting bad faith with bad faith because irl it's an escallation of conflict by moving the needle towards violence and will often force people to back down. It does not work online though, it just spirals everything into retarded statements because the lack of physicality leaves a massive void between "bad faith argument" and "swatting a person" that you can't actually cross legitimately.

You have to choose to be sincere, even when others are choosing not to.

>>7586355
Collaging them together makes both far more interesting than either is on their own.

>>7586366
>All of pre-modern history and achievement was the result of the aristocracy, which across all civilized society shared a similar mores of encouraging artistry or other meaningful pursuits, in competition for pride among each other. This quality has been lost, as the western world increasingly succumbs to the slave morality that prides in weakness, and discourages courage and achievement.

>Yet, a new aristocracy emerges in the digital age, the agentic NEET, who, exactly like the aristocrats of old, enjoy freedom from burden, with access to all the resources needed to autodidact themselves in the humanities and sciences, and the ability to network a culture of collective development.
https://goldenlight.mirror.xyz/LeUojosmx48SvEfspq1leuRTf7TJfYKJ_TtKpePczzU

>>7586355
okay but memes do exactly that but better, so these nerds to get with the times and do what art actually is good for.

>>7586171
how does that make sense when
>cheapened by naturalism [...] felt like a cheaper version of the ancient stuff, disneyfied, nudes look way better as artifice
artifice is proposed as a solution to looking "disneyfied", that doesn't sound like she wants more idealization

>>7586155
lol where is this?

Did this one just recently.
Gouache.

>>7587351
And this one is the companion piece to it.

>>7587351
>>7587377
these are wonderfully beautiful and immersive
they’re going to eat my soul if i stare long enough
amazing work

>>7587351
>>7587377
I think you'd want some hue variation in the darks rather than making it pitch black.
Also, imo these are cheapened by looking like digital paintings, at least when not seen in person. I know gouache is like that, but maybe you can make it more obviously painted somehow.
Otherwise the first one is very nice, reminds me of vtmb art.

>>7587351
>>7587377
>"where is my money, brian?"

>>7587533
i know i saw it down there somewhere let me take another look

Made this in a hour or two

>>7588289
Acrylics on paper, btw

>>7583913
Don't tempt me.

My beloved wise anons, I am here again to request advice and critique (it’s oil)

>>7589170
1. I cannot see any detail in the photo so I cannot say much.
2. You need to draw more anatomical structure into the figure if your goal is to match an old master style.

>>7589170
what is the concept here? what does her lying on a divan and holding a palette and brush (with nothing to paint on) to look at her reflection in the mirror represent? why is there a mirror there in the first place? why is she not actually looking at the mirror while wistfully reaching for it with her decorative painting paraphernalia?

>>7589219
It’s supposed to reference Michaelangelo’s Creation of Adam, but instead of portraying the hand of God reaching to meet Adam’s I painted a hand reaching to its own reflection. The fact that it’s a mirror instead of a canvas implies that human creation is a reflection of itself, and so is divinity. Idk if that makes sense. Did I make the symbolism too unclear?

>>7589170
Your brush is too small and you’re using not enough paint anon, it’s why it looks like acrylic

>>7589170
It looks like you kept all of your layers super thin. And you can do that... if you heavily prime and sand your surface super smooth. But if you're painting on a regularly primed surface, then you need to build up your layers with thicker applications of paint. It looks way too thin.

>>7587499
Thanks.

>>7587500
I think part of the issue is that these really don't photograph so well. I paint on black paper (I use an ultramarine Blue + Ivory black mix to paint over the black areas for more depth) So, it makes them a bit difficult to photograph and sometimes the more obvious brushstrokes and textures get a bit washed out. I'll need to invest in a nice scanner one day.
Otherwise I appreciate the VTMB comparison!

Anon i need your opinion on this.
I found this account with old masters larpers, and in theory i should like it. They or she is painting from life, using models, the motives are Christian and so on.
Its more or less, what i try to do.
But, the art is very offputting. I low key hate it, fr.
But is it me, or is it really bad.
They are paintnig for Russian Orthodox churches, but its definitely not authentic Byzanthian art, its very secular.But its nor as artistic as secular art from the Renaissance. It has no violence, it has no drama, or nudity, or devils and other stark imagery.
Its very soft and painted very, very modern. Too bright, too colorful. Too shallow overall.
And the worst thing is, it looks very Americanized. If i look at it, i think the painter is an atheist, doing it for the money.
Am i right, or what?
And what can i do, to not be the same as they are?
https://www.instagram.com/melnikov_karpova_art/

I had a read about the secularization of Christian art in the Renaissance. A quite interesting read.
And basically, the girl above is the worst of both worlds.
Its not sacral, it does not follow the Byzantium tradition, but its not very artistic as well. No drama, no ntohing.
https://hilarywhite.substack.com/p/lies-the-renaissance-told-you-pt-46f

>>7589737
It's extremely brushy, it is in alla prima, there is no detailing on the clothes.
I think you are confusing aesthetic taste for religion however.

>>7589744
Yes, the technique is not authentic. The shadows are milky, the forms are mostly not sharp and ant the same time, not soft enough.
Very modern, not very defined.
But nor terrible as well, for modern standards the technique is okey.
Bouguereaus Christian painting look very candy as well. But i like it. What's the difference, besides Bouguereaus superb painting technique?
> I think you are confusing aesthetic taste for religion however.

In which way?

By the way I watched this video about drapery, very interesting, can recommend to everyone whos interested in this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci8XukntkDs
But now, i defiantly need a mannequin. A big one, human size.
Looked some up and they are quite expensive. Is there a cheaper solution?

>>7589748
>In which way?
In the way that they cite Poussin as direct inspiration, now Poussin might have been a baroque painter but he was very much interested in composition, lighting, anatomy as their own subjects beyond naturalism, and in turn I think their style is deeply in line on top of the technique with secular art, but is fundamentally Christian. It's just that the less technique there is to appreciate the more you realize there is a lack of appreciation for Christianity and more of this shallow reverence that an atheist can imitate like you said.

>>7589766
Poussin is very dramatic, a lot of violence in his paintings. I dont really see any of it, in her paintings.
> the less technique there is to appreciate the more you realize there is a lack of appreciation for Christianity
The problem is not per se lack of technique. The combination of trying hard and mediocre technique is what makes it weird.
As i sad, looks very Americinized to me, it reminds me of Thomas Kinkade, very gimmickry.

>>7589786
Feel like this board doesn’t thoroughly shit on people like Alfred Sisley enough. It’s hard to come up with a critique that’s harsher than “you’re literally copying Claude Monet”

>>7589818
Thats a very random reply, dont know what to say, frankly.

>>7589826
I just think it’s odd how the worst thing art can be is boring and derivative, unlike something like music where the worst thing it can be is actually offensive to listen to. Bad music physically hurts, or bad architecture collapses, but bad art is just boring, like you wasted your time even considering that it would be good. I guess a movie or a book can be similar, almost like you feel disappointed, like having a midwit kid.

you guys sure like to talk about other people painting

>>7589843
Yeah and in my experience in the past asking technical questions gave better answers without posting work, when I did post work I got no suggestions on how to fix things, then got insulted, why would I post my stuff when the thread is better off being used to talk shit about others? Where else would I do that? Twitter? I'm not Will St John, I'm not using that shit.

>>7589848
true, if i wanted no replies id just post on social media. we've reached peak "who gives a fuck" with traditional art. everyones busy yapping about how ai took the concept art they didnt have

>>7589837
>>7589818
I think you'd love to shit on this guy in specific, Hollis Dunlap.

>>7589755
Store closings often sell the fixtures.

>>7589848
>>7589852
Hmmm... Theory time:
Advice is easier to get from the poster slot machine when the person who happens to see the thread at that time thinks you're either "like them" or "below them". By posting work while asking for help you risk alienating a good chunk of the people who would give advice because they either dislike what you want to be making, they feel like they can't help you due to impostor syndrome, or they crab out. Or numerous other reasons.

By asking for advice first, then posting work when someone asks, the other person has already started assisting you. While they could still just close the thread after seeing it or insult you, third parties are more likely to chime in on an ongoing discussion.

>>7589867
That’s the thing though, in general online if anyone I see posts traditional art they just think it’s a seperate category than digital. Like all traditional art is just automatically perfect, and digital art is the actual thing that gets graded on a curve. Trad art circles are the most self-congratulatory, masturbatory places online and they’re usually some type of cult anyways. There’s no “leader” on trad threads here. We’re not paying for a course and there’s an instructor on zoom calls. We’re not getting bent over by Odd Nerdrum in his hippie commune. Big difference.

>>7589872
I post my trad art in places that people mostly do digital art and yea I did notice I get a large amount of positive comments, even on occasion I got a "WAIT THIS ISNT DIGITAL?" (which I see as a compliment actually.)
I suspect it's because I break their expectations. Most I think imagine "trad art" as either being related to ultra-/beg/s, like between Chris Chan and middleschool art show levels, or assume the subject matter/style always consists of boomerisms.

Actually now that I think of it, relevant subject matter done decently in trad is viewed as some mythical skill that's been lost for 20 years, despite many of those older artists still being alive. Like look at the way this guy approaches his project https://youtu.be/yC7-gg0VJLE

Are we really at a point where artists who aren't even at retirement age yet are treated like they've been dead for decades? Goddamnit...

How do you guys get rid of stubborn pencil lines and prevent the paper from getting too fucked up from erasing?

>>7589885
It’s kind of what has happened to the idea of a band. Like remembering this mythical time where a guy was on drums, a dude was singing, and someone had a bass guitar. Simply can’t be done again, that was stuff from the before time

>>7589899
Stop using an eraser like it’s a backspace key, that’s a start. It’s a drawing tool not a “fix” for “mistakes”. Youre in the wrong mindset with the eraser so just stop using it entirely right now

>>7589899
Draw lighter.
Make sure you are holding the paper down firmly and relative to the direction you erase so it can't move or crinkle.
Use thicker/different paper so you can scrub a bit firmer.
Make sure your paper is on a hard surface. Think clipboard or drafting table, not something like a soft mat, tablecloth or journal cover.
Use a good eraser. Daiso's "Mono Hard Type" are great and cheap. I also like Faber-castell's Dust-Free type. Some erasers will smudge before they erase but then erase well, I've found Prismacolor Magic Rub to do this, but it does erase darker marks. So it only really works well with an eraser shield.

If all else fails then an electric eraser can work but I don't have one of those.

>>7589901
what the fuck are you even talking about

>>7586355
the guy on the right couldn't paint the piece on the left if his life depended on it. his proportions and anatomy are shit. lmao

>>7589909
I love how when a conversation is out of someone’s depth they just go “wtf r you talking about” idk bro what should we talk about instead, let’s bring the discourse down to your level we don’t want to exclude anyone

>>7589919
nigger, you're making retarded non sequiturs, fuck off back to discord

Gotta love how nobody in these threads can paint but everyone has deep takes on art and will rant about technique for hours lmao

Those that discuss, consume.
Those that create, abstain.
-HiroshiMootykins

>>7589905
>>7589907
Thanks for the advice

>>7589935
This

Basically only one fag in the whole thread posted their finished work, said like two things then fucked off. And what do you know, they could actually paint.

>>7589913
> the guy on the right couldn't paint the piece on the left if his life depended on it.
No shit, Sherlock!

>>7586155
Hes right though. Many old paintings are also discoloured as fuck and blue smalt often just became brown for example. If you you have a preference for earthtones thats fine of course but theres no reason to avoid colour otherwise.
>>7586333
He hires some chinese to paint it. When someone asked about it he made some bad excuses about le final touch. Either way it sucks and boils down to:what if element of famous painting but photoshopped african american instead of white ppl+ bullshit flat wallpaper lol.

>>7587351
>>7587377
Thats nice

>>7590255
>blue smalt often just became brown for example
Or maybe it faded and left brown underlayer, not sure.

>>7589219
>what is the concept here
Hot girl, naked.

>>7590255
> Hes right though.
No, he is a fag and a cringy edge lord, i wouldnt be surprised if he himself is posting this shit here. I mean, hist tweets have literally 0 engagement on twitter, what are the odds for someone to randomly find his shit?

>>7590275
lol come on, I'm not saying he's good, but he is the biggest of the american neo-academist figurative/representational artists today, together with his wife Colleen.

Again, not saying I like his stuff, but if you want to study drawing/painting in America, the place to go is GCA, and the best teacher on there is Colleen. Plus Will is the only real painter to be represented by Saatchi Yates, famous for representing black/queer/muslim hacks (and he's neither of those, so he must be there on talent alone).

>>7590288
> american neo-academist
He is tracing ai.
> his wife Colleen
Is a postmodernist.
> Saatchi Yates, famous for representing black/queer/muslim
He is posting on insta all the time about being a sodomite.

Leaning a bit harder into the gothic Americana stuff with my nautical and western art

>>7590288
And ive never said his art is bad, the stuff before ai is quite good. It lacks any meaning, of course, but it has a profound technique.
But he is trying to compensate with staged epatage.
Namedropping another famous painters all the time. Shit like this.
> lowkey masterpiece I made after one of my early predecessors Pablo Picasso. Tell me who's more goated fr in the comments on god

Its so cringe and retarded, shilling his twitter on pa would fit perfectly.

>>7590303
Stop wasting oil paint, some African children could paint gazelles on rocks with it.

>>7583835 (OP)
I did this like a year ago in oil.

>>7590297
>>7590336
>>7590338
>>7590340
>Colleen
>Postmodernist
The fact that she's painting crap now does not mean she's one of the best artists out there.

>>7590336
>>7590338
She is larping Odd hard, no wonder her hubby hates him.

>>7590345
> The fact that she's painting crap now does not mean she's one of the best artists out there.
Freudian slip right there, lol.

>>7590340
I thought she is neo-academic, how does this mannerism piece fits in, anyway?

>>7590316
someone posts their art and instant kill tony crowdwork, stop doing this gay shit

>>7590349
>Freudian slip right there, lol.
lol got me

>>7590352
That's a Michaelangelo copy she did. Plus she actually studied the Russian school a ton, so she might be the least neo-academic of the bunch, leaning towards that structuralist Repin Academy style.

I mean, they are both way better as the Russian girl, thats for sure. But probably as shallow and nihilistic as she and her husband is.
Maybe i just grow up, and realized, technical masturbation without the Christian fundament is shallow and meaningless.
>>7590362
> Plus she actually studied the Russian school a ton
But in the end it doesnt even matter.
All that, to paint postmodern shit now? She could have it way easier.
And i don't buy it anymore. She is not doing it just for the money.
I saw so many academics and old master larper turning to postmodernism, i dont believe the reason is money, anymore,.
After all this years they start fill the shalowness of this procidure.
She is copying Michelangelo. But he cant copy his motivation. I think at some point the neoacademics realize, yup, it was all about the faith in Jesus. And they quit.
Leonardo wasnt le epic homosexual, scientific atheist-redditor trolling the church, nope, he was able to paint his best piece (Anna selbdritt) because he was a beliver.
Tats it, this whole art thing was about an old Jewish cult all allong.

>>7590358
> instant kill tony crowdwor
Sorry, i dont understand this phraseme.
He is a contrarian and he likes getting such responses. Im just playing my role.
He is a postmodernist, he wants to deconstruct art and beauty. Right? Imagine you braking all the canons of art, and nobody is offended of your rebellious act.
Imagine you are a postmodernist, but there is no Christianity left, nihilism won.
He is a Bolshevik, standing on the Red Square and screaming "Death to the Zar!", but its 1968.

>>7590255
>Many old paintings are also discoloured as fuck
This is correct in more ways than one. Oil painters constantly cope over this saying that the oil yellowing over time "adds warmth" or something but it's really just that they don't want to accept the fact that oils have color shift measured in years instead of minutes, gets worse if stored in the dark, and is horribly difficult to predict.

>nooooooo muh color muh yellow
>nooooooooooooo muh lightfastness muh posterity

>>7590425
I dislike hypocrisy so it was more poking at how many oil painters yap about lightfastness and it having no color shift and so on but then their paintings slowly start to look like they existed in a chainsmoker's house even if you store them in a closet.

>>7590432
The post wasn't really directed at anyone in particular, I just saw posts about brown and color fading and remembered Turner telling Winsor to fuck off as he begged him to stop putting random shit in his paints because they're gonna fall apart

>>7590321
What have you used as ref material? The armor looks weirdly asymmetrical. I hope you habe used photos and not ai slop.
Overall you have used a graphical technique, and in this style you should work more presize. Or you can be looser but then you need to paint more painterly, to make it work. Working with more layers or use bravura techniques, to apply thicker paint.

>>7590432
You are oversimplifying a lot. There are some problems with some periods and techniques.
But it depends on the exact painting. Lead white is very stable. If you use a proper purefied oil it will not yellow to much. Some people painted the highlight with egg tempera over oil, which yellows even less.
Oil gets more transparent over time. Which makes the paint even more translucent and glowing ( people say at least, my last museum visit is while ago).
So some painting do profit from aging. The dutch used to paint over white grounds, on many painting you can see the wood grain from the board very clear now, which can be good.
Other paintings, the Italian school ages often worse. They used dark or even black imprimaturas, which can be a problem when oil gets more transparent over time.

>>7590449
Golden tested different oils (since they also own an oil paint company) and it doesn't matter since they all yellow. Poppy the least but still does, and that was only over a relatively short period of time (not decades).

>>7590461
A test of few years doesnt matter when we are talking about 400-500 year old paintings.
What yellows a lot is dammar varnish, not oil paint. As i sad, a proper oil paint geinded in a purified oil will read as white for hundreds of years.
But you dont have to believe me, you as much acrylics as you like, im sure you will create something significant, worth preserving over the centuries with this shit.

>>7590467
I like how you're acting as if anyone's going to care about your work a week from now, let alone centuries lel

>>7588289
I like it

>>7590476
Do I? Projecting much?

>>7590303
I actually really like this but paint the edges of the canvas YOU FUCK

>>7590490
Yeah, you are, that's why I said it, retard

>>7590502
There are more straight foreword ways, to tell someone that he won the argument.

>>7590441
He used Joan of Arc by Millais

>>7590467
I went to do something else, the other anon who replied shittily wasn't me.
The varnish can be renewed but the paint will still have yellowed
>read as white
The piss tone is a whole-painting issue, not just white. You can like it, you can compensate for it, but it is going to happen. I moreso laugh at how some people treat it like a desirable quality rather than an unfortunate reality.

We don't know how well acrylics last, and there are certainly other way less-durable mediums. Anything with neon, oil or not, will never last for one. But honestly I have seen more paintings in thrift stores and put out by dumpsters than I have hanging in peoples' houses.

If you really want your work to last long, make sure to digitize it in a high quality way.

>>7590515
for all intensive porpoises your a diamond dozen retard

>>7590574
>porpoises
i know that aint who i thank that is
>>7590395
i know im not any of that cause idk half those words, but u pissed me off with ur jive colonizer lingo so i did a figure drawing

>>7590594
Looking good

>>7588289
Another one. I gravitate towards this style when painting specifically, like the material itself (acrylic) just kind of guides me towards this fast-paced Van Goghy way of painting. Not sure if I should stick to this or maybe try to first try different approaches and broaden myself, as I've only recently picked up the brush again. Thoughts?

>>7590819
Apologies for the vertical picture

>>7590819
I think you could try to push this manner of painting a bit more. At least, I like the painting and see also some things you could do to give it a little more depth.
If I may do one suggestion, try to work a bit on atmospheric perspective, meaning things that are further in the background become lower in contrast, generally lighter, and more blueish in tone.
You don't have to do it perfectly but if you apply it a little bit to your paintings I'm sure you can make them more engaging while not really changing much about your workflow or style.
Oh and one thing, I think can help is try to get a subtle gradient in the sky. It will look more natural. Just take a look outside when there are no clouds, you will see the sky is more blue and a little darker the more up you look and closer to the horizon it'll look a bit lighter, a little less blue, sometimes even a bit greenish.

These are just two things you can do, but also things you can see when you are out and looking at a landscape, hope it helps.

>>7590819
Ah another fellow impressionist in the thread. You need more control over your values and saturation. Try to squint more often, take some steps back or make a black and white photo of it

>>7590836
Do you mean that I should take a black and white picture of my reference or make a picture of a work in process? Either way good advice, I'll be sure to try it out.

>>7590824
Also good advice. Perspective is still a fairly new thing to me, and you're correct about the sky, it isn't as monocolor.

Anyway, do you think this style could be used to make comics? I've been specifically wanting to make comics as I've discovered with my attempts at novel writing that the stories in my head are far to visual, which results in overly floral prose which I don't enjoy writing. However I find comic art extremely tedious to make. I love looking at it, especially pen and ink manga art, but making it just doesn't really catch on with me. Painting however, which I've been doing on and off for the past six months, has been extremely freeing and I enjoy it immensely. Do any of you know of comic artists or mangaka with impressionistic styles? Because all comics I've seen kind of don't. And yeah having a diamond a dozen art style would help you stand out but it actually has been kind of demorilizing. Perhaps It's just a case of believing in myself but I find myself feeling a bit stuck on what to do, with my comic ideas and my art in general. Thoughts?

P.s. again apologies for the vertical picture I'll be sure to make my photos horizontally next time.

>>7590489
Thank you, you're very kind

how's this?

>>7592853
what do you think

>>7592855
you should get over past grudges

>>7592871
I don't know what kind of boogeyman you think you're snapping back at, but I'm seriously asking

>>7592873
lol oops okay. in between meh and okay. the hatching needs some work and 'anatomy' could be better but otherwise 'not bad'.

>>7592875
So you're not taking your meds

>>7592875
it's /beg/ and you've put zero effort in

>>7592876
>>7592879
does it at least look 'not uncanny'

>>7592895
you're not even close to achieving uncanny

>>7592909
soo it looks passably human? just with shitty cross hatching?

>>7592927
>passably human?
No, it just has human likeness, like a cartoon character.

>>7592928
good enough for me

>>7592931
Too bad Klasky-Csupo isn't still around, or you could apply for a job.

>>7592932
i cant tell if you're making fun of me or not

>>7592470
Bro, don't wait for permission, just fucking do it. Comics are a whole package, if it fits your story/brand/etc. then you can use any style to make a comic. It might get tedious to paint every page if you want to make 10+ page long stories, but you'll find that out on your own soon enough.

>>7592853
Looks like some horror stuff, Hellraiser comes to mind or Junji Ito's Tomie

>>7585624
I mean, I love Goya but his stuff can be difficult to replicate and a lot of people just see him as the "saturn guy".

>>7593143
>I mean, I love Goya but his stuff can be difficult to replicate and a lot of people just see him as the "saturn guy".
all that saturnine spanish folklore stuff is way better than his court paintings, i dont see why those shouldnt be the paintings hes famous for. they're awesome

>>7593209
Those paintings are far more famous then any of his other works, not? That and the execution by firing swuad one

>>7593251
Dont forget the Maja desnuda

>>7593404
this looks like ass

>>7593407
makes pp hard though

>>7593407
the face is obviously appealing to some kind of contemporary market style but you can't deny the quality of the rest of the figure, the fabric, the lighting, the composition. dont be a fucking hater bro

>>7592968
But enough about your uncanny valley

>>7593418
The entire torso + head is fucked and the wide set pimple tits don't work at all with the lighting. The entire viewer right arm is fucked: hand, shoulder connection, upper arm anatomy is peak slop. Head is just a cutout pasted on the body on the level porn fake shoops.
Only a footfag cumbrain would miss this.

>>7593422
peak pre/beg/ take. /ic/ should have a reputation system like /dad/ where pre/beg/s should be limited from making dumb comments such as this one.

>>7593423
>/dad/
Opinion discarded, you can't paint.

>>7593423
>outing yourself as a permabeg discord tranny
yikes my man
peak oof

>>7593427
>discord
Do zoomies really?

>>7593428
they really do, see >>7584427
>2 discords
oh shit, I was wrong
it's a double discord tranny

>>7593430
Go back to your discord for anime discussion lil'dude you're embarrassing yourself.

>>7593431
>discord tranny comes to anime website
>into a thread with regular anime painters
>gets upset
try not to walk into any nooses, bro

>>7593434
>anime website
>anime painters
How much more of a faggot can you actually be

>>7593437
I could be in /dad/

>>7593431
>>7593437
You stick out like a sore thumb. Do you even paint?

>>7593439
Of course you're not there you don't even draw

>>7593209
He always painted interesting stuff like; El sacrificio a Vesta (1771), El Vuelo de las Brujas (1797), El Aquerrale (1798), Los Caprichos (1799), Friar Pedro (1806), La Profesión de los Flagelantes (1812), etc.
The court paintings are just what he needed to draw to live. There should be a clear difference between the works that one is paid to do and works that one desires to do. That being said, like more than half of the paintings I mentioned were commissioned by the upper class.

>>7593422
projecting your anime cumrag modern taste in women and aesthetics onto a painting done in the fucking 1700s is peak retard

>>7593448
NTA but that's a retarded statement when the painting in question has an anime face and by your own admission panders to a market style

>>7593451
>Anime face
>Motherfucking Goya
Holy shit, lmao.

>>7593454
Nigger, just look at it

>>7593448
>anime cumrag modern taste in women
>it's unironically a discord tranny
lel

>>7593456
>b-b-but my animes!
>my over simplified chinese cartoons are way better that classical art done in literally months!!
Yeah, I'm thinking fully developing a frontal lobe should be a requirement to post here.

>we should have IDs
>why isn't this place more like reddit
>where's the downvote button
>anime bad
What causes this?

>>7593460
who are you quoting, tranny?

>>7593460
is anime in the room with us?

>>7593461
>What causes this?
Self-awareness mostly. Realizing you're not a child anymore but mostly that you're not Japanese and never will be.
But I can see how a tranny couldn't get past their delusion.

>Self-awareness mostly.
>But I can see how a tranny couldn't get past their delusion.
Ironing.

>>7593461
>IDs
We had IDs.
>Reddit
You seem to think a lot about that site, you should probably use it instead of this one.
>Dislike
Calling you a subhuman nigger should be more than enough.
>anime
Mediocre style that is seldomly utilised properly and leaves a lot to be desired.

>>7593470
It's okay, the taste of my dick in your mouth won't go away that easily you lil'trannime lover.

>>7593454
Yeah

>the armchair painters shitting up the thread with academic autofellatio are anti-anime schizos

>>7593473
>fantasizes about having sex with men
>no, I don't like anime, how could you tell

>Comes to the Traditional Art General
>Is surprised people don't want to talk about his waifus

>>7593496
We talk about it often, newfag, we've had multiple anime paintings just last thread. Lurk before posting.

>>7593500
>Newfag
That's funny, you probably don't even remember when this board was blue.

>>7593506
You are an obvious newfag, faggot, stop posturing, nobody's buying it. You can see the reception anime gets here in the archive, now fuck off

>>7593407
For me it's Gerrit van Honthorst

>>7593585
Now this activates my neurons

>>7592470
>Perspective is still a fairly new thing to me
I am not sure if you know this but I was specifically talking about "atmospheric perspective" which has more to do with tonality, colour and softness/hardness, this is not to be confused with linear perspective like vanishing points and lines.
Atmospheric perspective can do a lot to the "feel" of your painting, I hope you look it up and see that it's not so difficult to apply.

Also, I cannot say much about comics, I am more focused on realist work, that is already too much for me to grasp in just this lifetime.

>>7585624
I am a Bruegel kinda guy to be honest.

>>7593515
>trannime infesting parasite calling others newfags
rich

>>7583998
I use chalk for body as its transparent when wet, you can make semi transparent thick glazes this way.
Marble dust is a classic.
some painters from my country have used sand for texture.

>>7590321
good work with armor
here's mine, but acrylic one

whats a good tool for blotting out large swaths with black ink?

>>7596055
brush

>>7596066
brush pen or an actual brush? using a pen fucking sucks and it still doesnt completely black out.

>>7596102
It sucks because you don't know how to use it yet, get yourself some soft (natural, pony is cheap and very good, synthetics die almost instantly) and pointy one (not flat, they sucks unless you want to cover big areas) and train with diluted acrylics or some water based paint.
Don't buy any expensive ones, ink will destroy them quickly anyway
Keep them wet all the times (durning work), dont let ink/paint dry on them, but remove most of the water (with rug) before actualy drawing.

>>7596102
and for completely blacking out, it's not fault of the brush, learn your medium, use layers

Question. Does anyone here knows of trad artists that specialize in dreamscapes and "worldbuilding". The obvious answer would be concept artists, and I've enjoyed a lot of their works, but does anyone know of a fine artist that would paint views into different worlds? I'm not particulary sure how to describe exactly what I'm lookin for but if anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

>>7596225
you mean besides literally all fantasy artists before the 90s? gurney's magnum opus was a meme book series about a world where dinosaurs live alongside humans

>>7595463
You wasnt able to finish the last bit, or what? I will not comment it, before you finish it.

>>7596258
I always leave some blank canvas, it's my calling card since signing paintings is kinda gay

>>7596225
Basically every horror and surrealist artist.
Not sure what your background is.
I think the first one to ever done it, though of course not really intended by him, is Hyronimous (im sure it is spelled different) Bosch.
But its based on the Bible, of course.
Gustave Dores series of illustrations for Dantes Comedy, but its based on the book as well.
More modern artists dont base it another source material anymore. I mean postmodernists (i hate this fuckers) do. Like Francis Bacon.
Dali, Chirico and many, many other surrealists create a world that is ours but twisted, or even something completely different.
Giger, Beksinsky do more or less the same as the surrealists do, but darker and most of the time even more kitsch.
Odd Nerdrum paints his ugly, brown world all the time. He uses his money, to groom twinks to paint fanfics set in his world. To some degree, he cussed the most in his world building.

>>7596267
> I always leave some blank canvas
> is kinda gay

And the "Good Goyim Of The Year" award goes to...

Seriously, can you imagine still simping for Bernie in the 2025th year of Our Lord?

>>7596225
Phil Hale I would say does some sort of world building, to a degree. Check him out on insta

>>7596225
If you want the other end of things from what the other anons said, Technically Bob Ross and Thomas Kinkade did this. Kinkade worked with Gurney earlier in his career on Fire & Ice, so that may be why his stuff looks the way it does, all fantasy-esque with loads of colors and plants and stonework.
And Bob Ross would probably have given the thumbs up for someone's "world" they painted looking like an alien planet, because he taught painting from imagination.

Besides those you have dudes like Larry Elmore who have full class recordings up on youtube, but he's an early boomer (1948) so age means that he basically moves in slow motion and rambles.

>>7596258
I'm sorry anon, i painted that just as limited palette exercise, and then i painted it over

>>7596258
I found another photo of it, little more completed, just for you, my dear anon

>>7596055

Big black posca marker

>>7587377
This is amazing, Anon.
>>7589170
I'm too much of a beg to really say anything other than I love what you're going for and it's exactly what's missing from modern art. Whatever you do, don't stop fighting the good fight, Anon.
>>7589737
They quite literally don't have SOVL. It really wouldn't surprise me if he was making an effort to not make it look "too good" in case people are swayed to Christianity lol I think Loomis said something about you can be technically skilled but still not have any taste. He also mentioned there are always artists in each generation that seem to want to push "grotesque" or unappealing imagery and they always pale in comparison to those who emphasize beauty and vitality in the world.
>>7590594
This inspired me to try making something similar. I'll tag you whenever I manage to make something I'm satisfied with.
>>7593762
>>7595463
Nice

Why is the guy so hard to follow? He is passive-aggressive all the time, he is yapping about shit. I think he is senile at this point. I watched several of his videos about topics i was interested in, and after 30-40 mins, looking back at it, he barely said anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJoGqSOc-6E

>>7597209
why are you so obsessed with him?

>>7597209
yeah he's a yapper and doesn't really say much of substance. he's skilled and knowledge but can't communicate very effectively.

>>7597229
I have a Santa Claus kink.
>>7597231
Yeah, he is talking about topics im interested in, direct painting, impressionism and so on. And its clear the guy has a way deeper understanding of the subject, then our average youtube art grifter.
But its a fucking skinner box and i am the rat. He gave me some very interesting insights about painting. So know there is a treat somewhere. But its soo fucking tiresome to go through all the old man talk.
I think i should rather read a book, youtube and video courses in general are cancer.

doing some pastel male portraits

>>7597341
another one

>>7597327
>I think i should rather read a book,
he has a video where he goes through Gammel's recommended reading list, very interesting stuff on there. And if you go into his website, he's got plenty of books to check out. I read the Velazquez one and it was pretty good, now I wanna read one by Gammel himself. Paul also recommends Delacroix's journals.

>>7597808
not the other guy, but is there an actual benefit to your work or is this just art history nerd shit?

>>7597341
there's something I really like about this one, the colors and the way you use planes to show the volume

>>7597811
I live in Madrid, I go to the Prado on a monthly basis, but I've never really understood the appeal of Velazquez until I read that book. The author makes the point that Velazquez was the first one to properly set the figure in its environment, with a coherent light and atmosphere. This made me realize the importance of figure-background integration and got me to look for that in my work much more than I used to. This btw is part of the critique raised against GCA students today, the "floating head in the void" meme, basically, your figure is not integrated into anything.

Plus some art history nerd shit, plus tons of inspiration.

>>7597812
plus that gesture is really fucking cool. Good job, Bri.

>>7597816
>The author makes the point that Velazquez was the first one to properly set the figure in its environment, with a coherent light and atmosphere
That sounds kinda arbitrary, I don't know if I'd say eg Caravaggio's figures aren't "properly set in their environment, with a coherent light and atmosphere".

>>7597808
> I wanna read one by Gammel himself
Im too lazy to finaly start reading it. But he is an academic anyway, not an impressionist at all. Santa would call it imaginative realism i think

>>7597816
>basically, your figure is not integrated into anything
I learned this from Baumann, he defined it as "don't paint 'things', paint 'light'" and draws a contrast between a thing-painting and a light-painting.

I think that describing it this way is confusing though, so I personally think most representative art today comes from two artistic lineages of how to approach the work:
>"Fine art"
where your picture is one cohesive whole piece made to stand on its own
>"Concept art"
where your picture is showing particular things in detail and everything else is framing

Pure figure drawing, including loomis, falls into the latter camp as well. The glut of current art education aimed at autodidacts is rooted in concept-art methods, but anyone's list of representational artists that rank among "the greats" typically is primarily mostly fine artists due to the cohesive images they make.
However, the concept art end of thing is much more interesting to other artists because of the way you can analyze such pieces like Patrick Bateman staring at business cards. And it's of course useful for preliminary work for a larger fine art piece. Sometimes a "fine art piece" is also a cohesive whole of other concept art works as well. Making "an electronics catalogue page from another dimension" would be along those lines.

>>7597846
>Baumann
Stephen or Stefan?

>>7597902
The boomer former-PBS show oil painter

>>7597816
Just go see the El grecos and Riberas bro

>>7597846
Loomis made fine art, though. It's just his examples in the teaching books that tend to fall into the later concept.

>>7597980
It's all about Rubens, Van Dyck and Titian for me. Plus the big 19th century spanish history paintings.

>>7590310
i thought you was making fun but he really wrote that on his last post

>>7592450
i'm not the same guy but the black and white picture is to check the values and composition. you can adjust your reference picture before you use it too to make it more readable. if you check van gogh letters, he made drawings on gray scale before making his painting. i would lower the contrast of thos tress that are far away, and increase the contrast of the green leaves of the main tree. they get lost with the sky if you put your painting in black and white.

>>7592470
https://halcyonrealms.com/books/samura-oku-manga-review/
this looks like a painting

thoughts on this cow?
the face is longer than i expected, and the oil pastel didn't stick to the paper when i tried to mix some color on the top part.

i used oil pastels. spend some money in a van gogh set, then to realize it's not a good brand for oil pastels.

>>7598446
the cow is very nice, but legs need a better design
the green's a bit much with the red imo

If someone is interested, Santa is able to produce coherent videos, he has a series of lectures, that are much better structured.
https://studio.ingbretson.com/
Im watching the one about Vermeer and its very good, actually.

>>7598446
>thoughts on this cow?
It depends, what was your goal?

>>7598476
>It depends, what was your goal?
to venerate ur mum

>>7598446
van goghs are fine, mayby try pentel, they are cheaper and still good.
If you want them to stick better, take some tissue and heat the pastel in you hand by friction, it's also very helpful when you work in layers. You may also use some solvent, but then you may as well use normal paint

>>7598476
paint something appealing with oil pastels

>>7598658
thank you

Artemis.. I’m going to work on portraits of three of my other characters to go along with her story (probably Jackson, Dusk, and Deandre) later on once i finally finish some commissions
Anyway, this is all paper and cardboard aside from the lace

Okey, now really got a little but obsessed with the old guy over the last couple of days. But i can understand much more what his ideas are now.
Basically he is hardcore pro light and mass painting and against analytical art.
He is tracing his ideas from the early Renaissance artists who traced camera obscura and so on. U can just paint light with camera obscura, you don't need no drawing or construction. Which makes sense in therms of realism.
He is against drawing an outline, an envelope and filling it with color. Like Bougi does. He wants to see a monolith of color, with lost edges, bleeding colors and so on.
And that's the problem, if you want to paint imaginative realism, you can work from photo, or piece it together with studys of people and put them into a background. Classical academic style.
But he hates both, so no imaginative realism, no myths, no Christianity without a time machine, i guess.
The funny thing is, they base their ideas on Vermeer, who has painted literally one corner of his room, cos his camera obscura was too large. But from his paintings they apostolate, to never use optics aka cameras. And for this reason, most of the old Boston guys paintings are women in front of a window. Very romantic, but you still paint your daughter/wife in the same corner of your house, with a south window.
Not sure what i think about it. They are right in some sense. When the Boston guys are good, they very good, very romantic.But it doesnt happen too often.
If i had a chose between this cult and Odd Nerdrums, i would decently choose this one.
Yeah i will have to dig deeper into the impressionism aspects, i haven't seen his lecture on Monet yet.

>>7601062
>Vermeer
>camera obscura
so is this confirmed? I saw the documentary by this other faggot painter but I'm not quite sure I buy it. He says the reason Holbein et al got so good at portraits is the camera obscura, but then you look at Vermeer and his portraits are absolute dogshit. I heard someone say modern critics are so untalented they can't imagine anyone else having any talent, hence the camera obscura explanation. But the thing is, you look at the dudes we regularly hate on here, the GCA type, and they all do way better portraits than Vermeer, and none of them use the CO. So these guys are the definite proof that results from way back when are achievable without a CO.

>>7601062
>>7601095
Here for example is a 4 minute clip disproving the idea that Vermeer used a CO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jruwMMT_bc8

David Hockney believes in the camera obscura being used commonly by all artists.
That's all I need to know.

>>7601095
> so is this confirmed?
Yes, Elon Musk dropped the files via X (former known as Tw*tter) yesterday...
I mean if you look at Vermeer, its very, very, very obvious.
Look at one one of his paintings at high res, its very clear he is not painting, but tracing.
This is exactly what Paul is talking about. But he means it in a good way, he is not talking shit about him. For him its a revolution, Vermeer painted the light, cos he saw it on his canvas, he had just to trace it. No need for drawing.
And its not about being good, or too good. No, as you said his humans are quite amateurish painted.
He definitely traced most of his paintings.
You can paint better and more realistic by eye.
Both can be true and is.
>>7601098
I watch it later. Maybe i will comment it, maybe not, im not very interested in this discussion right now. I mean there is a discussion about Holbein, Velasquez, Van Eyck, Rembrandt... and so on, how much they used it but Vermeer used it for nearly everything, its very obvious.
>>7601119
> used commonly by all artists
Commonly by all is the maximal version of this theory, i would not agree.
The other extreme would be, no artist has ever used it, which is of course wrong as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1JkR7ubLw&list=PL7ivCQzt41zmWb4q61b2xJWlLlgRAAYRl

>>7601119
considering the number of biographies written about artists, and treatises written by artists, if everyone commonly used it, it'd be mentioned somewhere
from the lack of evidence it should be obvious it was at best used in secret
compare to ai, do you use it? do you have an interest in using it? someone down the line will say it existed and made painting easier, so you must have used it

>>7601317
Casey Bought used it for his trumpeter picture, no evidence but it 100% obvious.

>>7601319
are you casey bought? did I ask if anyone ever used it of if you use it?

>>7601319
Lol fucking Casey Baugh, had to change his name on his insta account. Then there was the incident on that same ARC competition about the declared winner being 100% AI, then having the prize revoked. Look it up, Jakedontdraw reported on it.

>>7601323
Nono, Casey became postmedernist and changed hios name, cos he was sued for scamming people with fake master classes, for hundred thousands of dollars.

> winner being 100% AI, then having the prize revoked
No not Casey, Casey traced ai, which is fine for the judges, the girl printed ai slop out and was caught.

>>7601317
I dont like to make realistic people, and I don't do plein air (yet?). My home is not usefully set up for scenery. I have no need for the CO.
AI I do sometimes use but only for planning/sketching/underpainting or reference. No interest in using a projector for it, I just use it for helping plan blocks of value/light and form/mass and only in the occasional picture.

People who get mad at CO use just have different priorities from artists who used/make use of it. We also don't always know what the old guard experienced...
>SWOUNDS!! Antoine, I just recieved word that this simple portrait I did for the count has drawn all the eyes of his court, and is set to be displayed for the masses! Whilst rumor tells me that the Baron, after showing the hunting scene of him and his party - which I placed my spirit and life into - at his gala, he is to hang it in his personal library! Antoine, you know the Baron reads nought but scripture! My legacy will be that of a mere apprentice of my master!

(A bigger sign of a hack is when an artist can't come up with vignettes like that...)

Why use a camera obscura when you can just make shit up.

>>7601560
> when you can just make shit up
Can you?

>>7601560
>dutch art
>dutch people
sorry, i don't have an extra chromosome, could you give an art analysis of this nonsense for us unevolved people

working on shadows

>>7601858
cute

How traditional are we talking? Been having some modicum of success with chainmail. Even sold a few.

>>7602145
Shit wont upload on phone so heres the pic.

>>7602170
maybe try /diy/, you'll probably get more useful comments there

>>7602222
I cri for the other mediums. But fair enough.

>>7602170
I'm no expert, but those rings look way too big, it looks more like avant-garde fashion than armor

>>7601098
Are you fucking stupid? It is obvious he painted the same room in the same spot. Whether he used the camera or not, he had to re-decorate the room (including the floor, expensive textile, etc). What does the Youtuber even question?

The fact he finishes the second half of the video by explaining one point perspective and that it can be constructed (no shit sherlock), shows that this guy is not qualified for a take on this subject. Vermeer is not about perspective. This was never the important point in his work. It's the light and colors. Explain those. It's there where the argument lies.

preparatory block-in before painting, about 12 hours, from a live model
how much more grinding til I finally make it, bros?
I'm dying here

>>7602586
>Vermeer is not about perspective.
for some reason everyone thinks that's what it's about and that they're big brained for knowing how vanishing points work

>>7602586
>>7602873
Maybe I'm too inexperienced but how does a CO helps with light and color? Is it just being able to color match on-canvas? That seems relatively silly to get broken up over if so.

I watched the movie about the guy, who build the room, a camera obscura and painted a very similar Vermeer picture over months.
And i remember there was something about the piano. He painted the outlines of the piano with a ruler, so it wasn't distorted, but he did not construct the name written on it, so its is distorted. Which is basically a 100% give away for him tracing.

>>7601098
>almost certainly not enough light - light went through a simple hole, not a lens
>literally shows a diagram with a lens on it 10 seconds earlier
>vermeer's friend was a known maker of high quality lenses

>>7602436
It is. They're made of copper. Butted rings aren't the best for it either. Usually people in the fighting scenes use flat riveted steel rings but even in something like buhurt they just use the chainmail to cover up non historical protective parts to hide them for the rules. The only real cases for historical mail if you're selling it is for reenactment and buhurt as far as I'm aware so there's alot of leeway for more artistic interpretations if you want a wider audience like renn faire participants or cosplayers.

>>7602886
>Is it just being able to color match on-canvas?
Call it "color matching" or "tracing", but That's what it is about.
>That seems relatively silly to get broken up over if so.
I don't know what you mean by "get broken up over" but tracing is actually a big deal. I'm not of the opinion that it is generally bad or forbidden or anything, but there is a skill diff between using or not-using it. The movie that is mentioned here shows that a complete noob can paint astonishingly good with it.

>>7603001
it's not about skill, it's about fraud
I haven't lurked in years, but /fit/ would absolutely lose their shit over the notion of their goal physique being heavily roided and shooped because in their mind it's about effort and hard work, they look at those guys and feel inspired to be better and achieve greatness and the world becomes a shittier place when they realize what extent of it is just being good at taking pictures, photo editing, gear etc
the exception to this are women, women absolutely love tearing others down in lieu of raising themselves up

>>7603001
>tracing is actually a big deal
This is retarded. Before photography became a thing being able to get a super accurate likeness at all was incredibly difficult.
>shows that a complete noob can paint astonishingly good with it
Why does this matter?
>>7603032
>the world becomes a shittier place
???
How?
>just being good at taking pictures, photo editing
This is how all photography is. Photos are not "real", they have lens distortion and fucked colors. If you can't see something with your own two eyes you are only seeing a facsimile of it. A rather good one, but it's still a facsimile. I guess in both cases it comes down to the
>in their mind it's about effort and hard work
and then rejecting cleverness as related to effort and hard work.

IMO it's probably worse that people get tricked by "just grind more bro", which leads into torturing themselves in sisyphean tasks. The world is way more open and cool if you learn to use your brain to experiment and research if better ways exist.

>>7603170
you're autistic

>>7603170
> This is retarded
You are retarded, fuck off, tracer.

>>7603176
Yes, I don't really give a shit about normie status posturing or maintaining shared cultural delusions, I care about learning more about this beautiful world we live in and making whatever I want.

>>7603189
>normie status posturing or maintaining shared cultural delusions
that's not what's being discussed, autismo
>I care about learning
evidently not

>>7603194
People shitting on those who figured out ways to make interesting art using different tools is retarded. Especially when it was hundreds of years before photography and so getting a "light traced" image was likely totally acceptable and possibly even desirable. And that isn't even fucking accounting for the fact that the lighting and posing will still change over time if you're - like they would have back then - using natural light and live models.

>that's not what's being discussed
That is exactly why the other anon brought up the /fit/ shit - to some people (morons) muscles are a status symbol of having done a lot of hard work and discipline and so on (the "lose their shit" part is usually this element), but to others it's a thing of personal development and possibly artistic self-craft. Both of these mentalities approach it completely differently.

I don't see a problem with tracing as long as you can make GOOD ART using it. It is, however, very difficult to do that if you're just tracing one thing wholesale, you just make a low-value cheap copy.

>>7603215
refer to >>7603176 and never reply to me again

>>7603215
> I don't see a problem with tracing
Why don't you fuck off then?

>>7603231
I don't make traced art myself outside of practice because I'm not interested in making
>a low-value cheap copy.
Nor do I so much care about making larger pieces that use traced elements in some way, just not my thing.

But I don't see anything wrong if someone else were to make good art using tracing, and I will continue to validate such people if their art is good.

Provide a strong, well-reasoned and non-contradictory explanation to convince me that tracing is bad and I'd obviously have to rethink my stance.

My recent trad work

>>7603170
low quality bait. you're retarded

every mentioning of camera obscura, or even Vermeer himself is bait. get real. you have been played. as it always happens in /trad/.

>>7603468
Looks like it'd send a large 1-armed 1-eyed man into a frothing rage. I like the inclusion of the small distant silhouette on the right edge, but the way the perspective is set up makes that person seem tiny (or all the monsters seem enormous, can't tell if it's intentional or not.) The amount of texture is really well done though, very disgusting looking.

>>7603692
It's a real invitation to convince me because I recognize that I'm not omniscient. Learning new things is enjoyable and a lot of that comes from discussion.
I originally went along with "tracing bad" by just following the crowd, then at one point I seriously examined the reasoning, found it to be wanting, and rejected it. I do that for a lot of things and have really come to like the "no rules, just tools" mentality. Each tool is just more or less useful in producing something good.

>>7603892
Sorry dude, I'm not sinking any more time into this. I never said tracing is evil. I just think there is a skill difference in using/ not using it. If you think it does not make a difference, that's not my problem.

>>7603892
>It's a real invitation to convince me
Waste someone elses time. All information to build an opinion (whichever you're interested) is available on the internet. If you really want to talk about this, sign up to OpenAI.

>>7603979
>I never said tracing is evil. I just think there is a skill difference in using/ not using it.
That's fine then, sorry for lumping you in with the other takes.
My stance is that I think that it can be used skillfully, and that a piece of art being great art or crappy is a status that (typically, there are lots of exceptions) requires having a lot of skills at a high level, what those specific skills need to be depends on what the work actually is. Tracing can be utilized if it makes the work better, or ignored if it makes it worse. As I said before I think in most cases it just makes things worse, you have to have other skills that makes it effective.

>>7604049
>Waste someone elses time.
Discussing these things is actually pretty interesting to me and I find that having them is important. Much more so in both ways than the usual bitching about how specific dead painters are treated by the nepo babies that run museums.

But if you find it to be a waste of time you're free to hide the posts.

>>7604272
Gives a revvvvalation of taint vibbbbbration.

>>7604143
>Discussing
wrong platform. the moment you care you lost. Get inspire, join the shouting, take away what you can. that's it

>>7605102
You're being disingenuous, you can see civil discussions up in the thread, you'd have to be desperate for social interactions to spend your time "discussing" the merits of tracing

>>7605153
>you'd have to be desperate for social interactions to spend your time "discussing" the merits of tracing
One reason I can think of for people to be reluctant to even discuss it, is that they are not confident in their understanding of why they feel it's wrong and fear that such discussions could undermine the current standards, leading to a situation where tracing is not looked down upon.

This is circular reasoning in a realist perspective: Truths are not made false by being questioned. If "tracing is bad" cannot withstand scrutiny, that suggests a problem with the stance, not with the scrutiny. I am more aligned with this.

... However, if you're a social constructionist, (which many people are these days, unfortunately) then, depending on how extreme you take it, you'd believe that truth is created from social interaction. At a minimum this would apply to abstract truths like "tracing is bad" and a maximalist would claim the perception of reality itself is socially constructed. The extreme end also a symptom of BPD though. What this means is, if someone has that stance, it's rational to simply avoid a discussion on such a topic via attacking the opponent instead of making space for argument to occur.

bro, nobody's reading that

>>7605201
I can reword it in zoomer brainrot language for you:
2014+11, loads of retards have a tranny mindset: everything is made up, the only thing that matters is how many oomfies you can use to cancel and bully people until everyone agrees your stance is heckin valid and in fact not-cringe, and questioning things is literally harmful to the people who benefit from this status quo being called the truth.

didn't read but you sound mad

>>7605219
That's just because zoomer brainrot language inherently comes across as aggressive and pompous. I had fun translating it.

oh he mad

>>7605195
Stop diagnosing people around you. You're in no position to do so. "people do so" "people think they". fuck off.

You can't just make shit up and expect people to discuss you. No one's got time to discuss whether the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese.

Bring more to the table than "honest interest" and "a real invitation to convince me". If you'd be actually interested in it, you'd research a little beforehand and then start a conversation. people might respect you then.

>>7605249
I have done my own research, that's why I said what I did, plainly and clearly with why I think so, right here in these posts
>>7603215
>>7604143

>Stop diagnosing people around you. You're in no position to do so.
The fact that the responses I got have all just been excuses to type weak insults and avoid saying anything substantial is very telling. Humans do no act randomly, actions are done with purpose to attain some ends.
There is meaning behind why someone would take up bump space and go through the effort of the captcha to just screech instead of hiding the posts.

>>7605344
my intention is a hope that we can have a /trad/ thread in the future that doesn't get derailed by the ever same bait topics. Could be a cool place, but it's not. about 10 threads ago we had an OP that seemed very well versed and organized. He/she attracted thoughtful people here. They never came back.

>>7605398
If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to paint, retard. All you do is yap like a nerd who thinks he's in good company.

>>7605398
You may not think it but we have a similar position.

You want things to not get derailed by bait.
I think that people can use whatever the fuck tools and techniques, and nobody should really be bitching about it beyond "It's not my taste."

You can't bait a person with "z o m g did u hear? vermeer... camera obscura...?" if they're not emotionally invested in the idea that someone else could be "cheating" at trad art.

new thread is up:
>>7605708

>>7605664
what the fuck are you talking about, the people saying he did use it are the ones trashing him for using it, nobody's triggered by the idea, they look down on him for it

>>7605853
Continuing here because this one is in freefall and I don't feel like dragging this into a new thread.

I don't see why one should look down on him for it, and this has not been sufficiently explained to me. I brought up that it's reasonable to consider that such accurate paintings using it as an aid would in fact be desirable at the time, given that it was the ONLY way to have such a thing for around another 200 years. And the fact that he is one known for it, and he had the connections to obtain a good one and - smartly - chose to, means he was innovative.

I cannot see why one would look down on him for this. It's like looking down on Nosferatu because of it being copied from Dracula.

>>7605942
I'm starting to think you have legit brain damage

>>7605951
Why do you insist that Vermeer's use of the CO is something to be looked down upon?