Just your regular /trad/ art thread. My favorite brand of oil paints is Michael Harding, how about you?

>>7605708 (OP)
I can only buy them from abroad. Yeah, strange. Picasso, W&N and one with a Panda logo, all from China :> I know, cheapskate anon, they're good for practicing, but their quality issues are more about how they look after drying than about the paint itself. Talens is the only fairly priced oil paint that I have bought from the local distributors.

I got into Maimeri recently, bit of a fan. Bought a tube of phthalo green to try out tonight

Vermeer? More like Were Merely Tracing AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no wonder he died as a literallywho cuck LMOA

I paint stuff. Sometimes it’s alright. I’ve got my first art fair in August. It’s a bigger one with 250 tents or so. I managed to get juried in and everything.

I suppose the next progression after doing these for awhile is galleries? No idea what I’m doing

>>7605885
are galleries even worth it outside of the elite ones? they just take half your money for wall space, I doubt they increase sales enough to be worth it

>>7605885
Do you use masking or paint on the white highlights? I use masking fluid and try experimenting and on this one I applied it with a wet brush and it worked well. I got inpatient and erased it with the paper still wet and accidentally removed a bunch of paint. Still happy enough with the outcome. Hope you post more landscapes

>>7605735
surprisingly decent tinting strength even for a phthalo. this is the test run speedy painting with maybe 1ml of green and a lot more white

>>7606155
and using it with other paints

>>7606107
I’m the least patient artist, lol. I always end up with pigment on my hands as I remove it. I’ve tried masking fluid a decent amount. I can never really get it to apply as precisely as paint or water. I want to keep working on it.

On that one I just left the above-water rocks dry while I did everything else. White gouache was used straight out of the tube for the white bits in the water. I was rather pleased with myself for preserving the white shore below the trees very successfully

>>7605708 (OP)
No oils, I am the craft acrylic paint weirdo. My preferred brand is DecoArt.
Besides those I like liquitex fluid (why do they only come in the basic line...), Blick Artist's Fluid which is just a white label of vallejo with a twist nozzle and VERY liquidy, and for certain things DecoArt's professional "Media" line of fluid acrylics.

For additives I like Golden's high flow medium as a thinner, liquitex's professional gesso as it's quite fluid and comes in a squeeze bottle, Golden tar gel if I want to add self-levelling to something, and FolkArt's clear primer for painting over printed-out things or sketches.

I do not like impasto. Fuck impasto. This is the only thing where I think flat really is justice.

Oil paint brands don't matter or you would be buying pigments, the way you use them matters. The entire point of art is that you can turn two digits worth of supplies into 3 times it's value or more.

>>7606904
turning $20 into $60 in x hours isn't exactly stellar investment

>>7606904
>paint brands don't matter
They kind of do but they will never really tell you why. Without being directly told it, you would have to look at the handprint website (or another obsessive's) and then search the very specific pigment names and see the manufacturers' catalogs.

The truth is that most of the pigments today are synthetic, so their exact color depends on a lot of factors in how they're processed. The paint companies only buy a fraction of the available pigments, the rest are sold to the industrial sector (mostly the auto industry, but also house paints.)

So really you're getting not just their specific pigment mixes/load, but also which of the many variants of PBr7 is picked from one of several companies. You cannot buy pigments from these companies as a consumer unless you're buying a truckload and have your own logistics to ship it from them.

The world is way bigger and more complex than it seems at times. But also simpler.

(And as a side thing, this does also mean that if an artist was anti-car that would also mean he is in favor of his paint prices skyrocketing, and for some to just die out. When the auto industry has no use for a specific pigment - like quin gold - the manufactuers just discontinue it.)

>>7606965
Oh right one last thing:
A company can use a superior pigment, but a shit load/mix. Another company can use the inverse.

Which is better? No fucking idea, every specific color is unique in each company and product line. You can go insane testing how each titanium white looks, as they all are noticeably different when put side by side despite being the exact same PW6.

I think I‘m gonna try a lot of different styles, this is the first one. Notes?

>>7605708 (OP)
this thread is impossible to find, anyways heres as much as i can do with this big canvas with no good paint to use. wish i could do more work on it

Current embroidery project, it’s taking a lot longer than my last one did

>>7607567
who is behind your canvas

>>7607901
orientalism/Delacroix vibes going on here. I like it

>>7607975
Thank you. Delacroix could accomplish this in about 1/10th the canvas size but we stand on giants :(

>>7607901
is that just oil paint and brushes? Feels like you're using oil sticks, which I started using just now because of the cool textures you can do with them.

>>7607996
I didn’t do it for this painting but I’ve found in terms of chroma acrylics blend just fine into on top of underneath oils. Oil is so full of filler and medium right now that all the pigment they would use is put into acrylics, so to actually even paint nowadays you need both. “Oil paint” for all intent and purpose IS your medium now, and the acrylics are the only possible way to get the colors you want.

Reworked this one recently.

Any of you guys know about the notorious classical painter/internet personality Paul Rhodes a.k.a. PaulTalk?
I think he's fucking genius(aside from his politics).

>>7608771
lol not sure if bait or Paul himself. I don't like his paintings, but I do like his view of painting. His videos on yt, although a bit rambling and incoherent at times, do have a lot of wisdom. Sadly his channel on yt was recently taken down, but I think it's not the first time this happens, he'll be back. He also has a free book on his website, it's better than most crap out there. paulrhoads.org, check it out.

>>7608833
Yeah I'm also more of a fan of his channel than his paintings. Although I can't pinpoint as to why I dislike them, or don't love them might be closer to the truth. Maybe it's because he shows a lot of his half baked stuff instead of just his bigger master paintings. And I'm sure the paintings are much prettier irl than the photos he takes of them with his potato phone.
But I certainly respect him and his art more than the fucking neo realists he shits on.

>>7608871
>But I certainly respect him and his art more than the fucking neo realists he shits on.
yeah for sure. I followed the whole David Kassan debate and holy shit, David comes out as a fucking idiot, while Paul holds his ground. I'm trying to incorporate some of Paul's critiques into my work. The importance of figure-background integration, for example, which is why he hates Bouguereau.

Bought my first led white paint.
I havent really painted with it, but i played around and its better than i thought it would be. It was way easier to mix nice colors. Especially reds. I could mix much warmer pinks with a cool synthetiq red and led, compared to warm cad red and titanium.
Its definitely better for rendering skin.
I bought Holbein Silver White, which wasnt very expensive. Im not sure how much pigment load it has, as i sad never painted with lead before.
Holbein has a premium series Lead White as well, called Vernet. But its 16 euros for 20ml. Which is absurdly expensive if you paint more then once every 3 months. But i guess it will be interesting to see the difference.
>>7605708 (OP)
> Michael Harding
They seam nice, i only have Lemon Yellow, but i like the consistence. I like it probably more than Old Holland, OH is a little bit too stiff.

Anon is there a market for abstract art? I want to make some money, but as far as i can tell, private people only by neorealism.

what the fuck is """neorealism"""

>>7608940
Neorealism is the way Paul Rhoads refers to the new wave of figurative or realist painting, basically everyone coming out of the hardcore american ateliers: Florence Academy of Arts (founded by some american), Grand Central Atelier, Lyme Academy, all the other ateliers in Florence and London and that sort of thing. The ones who worship 19th century painters like Bouguereau, Sargent, etc. Basically, people who focus so much on technique they forget to paint anything interesting.

>>7608981
I googled the guy and he apparently forgot that too, so not sure what his point is beyond ummmm eckshooallie painting like shit is le good
also neorealism has apparently been defined since ww2 so he can't read either
he looks like an unironic reddit cuck btw, what state of mind must a man be in to take this creature seriously

>>7608940
Modern realism.

>>7609009
This movement sounded cooler when it was called the 'Return to Order'.

>>7609019
>'Return to Order'.
when was that? Sounds cool and and honest, straight to the point. Then again, reactionary art can never last for too long.
Neorealism is a term used to describe them from the outside, none of these guys call themselves realists. While they're still in their formation phase they call themselves "academic painters", as the students from the french 19th century academies did. Once they graduate, they all try to find their own niche, using titles such as "academic expressionism", "poetic realism", "syncretism" (Cesar Santos, jfc), etc.

>>7609046
It was post-war (WWI) return to realism and simple scenes. Literally what neorealism claims to be.

>>7609046
>>7609046
> they all try to find their own niche
Stop this copro talk. Its cringe as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLe9m36YURs

>>7609064
> copro
Lol, i meant corpo, but thats even more fitting.

>>7608771
he just seems like a communal boomer hate my wife type. every comment on his videos is 500 sentences long, almost as if it's full of people he's sending from facebook to his youtube videos.
>"Paul I just want to say first of all beautiful work and i hope the kids are well but you should try to be nicer to people"
Type of youtube personality i'd expect to wear sunglasses during a video.
anyways he's shit

i painted a cathedral, was originally a painting of the notre dame photograph with the cross in the smoke

https://odysee.com/@Paul-talk:b/Talking-down-to-David-Kassan:4
Here's a link to the uneducated in this thread, just try to disprove the man and look at your own art with different eyes.

>>7609809
>https://odysee.com/@Paul-talk:b/Paul-talking-down-to-younger-painters:f
>he seems very clearly to be a homosexual who uses a lot of homosexual imagery
I'm a fan already

>>7608924
How do you get rid of the waste? I probably shouldnt use it since im messy and surely some lead white will end up where I dont want it.

>>7609809
I've seen his """art""" lmao I'm not listening to his live action reddit post
Theoryfags are a blight upon this thread

>>7609964
im not a huge fan either

>>7609809
I saw the proko vids and thought it'd be funny. It wasn't.

>>7609964
>Theoryfags
It has nothing to do with theory. It has to do with what is painting about. Painting ≠ rendering. Brainlets adore and praise rendering for a reason, and is why painting today is shit.
>>7609967
He paints like a painter and you're not used to it. Paul'salso not claiming to be a master painter, but he is a PAINTER, unlike academic render monkeys.
>>7609970
It's not funny because it's true and the truth hurts. There is yet someone to disprove him.

What do you think about the American Portrait Society 2025 winner, anon? Quite some Americans talked about it. And its definitly better, then second, third and so on places.
But holly shit, this smug bitch has such a punchable face. I hate the subject so much, the hate is bleeding into my general impression of the painting.
Anyway, how many Sargents out of then?

>>7610082
She just took a digital photo and then repainted it in oil. No wonder AI is winning these competitions.

>>7610087
> She just took a digital photo and then repainted it in oil.
What give it away?

>>7610102
Everything. When you're doing live portraits, or painting anything from life, it's a completely different set of rules and observations. You're painting someone alive in the moment, also the eyes and eyesight aren't just one fixated focal length and focus. It's juat a more real, raw , human experience.

>>7610056
he's not fit to paint a porch lmao
the fact nobody ever heard of this decrepit retard says enough

>>7610082
Personally, I find this boring, only the lower 1/3 has any detail. A cat walking up to the chair is more exciting than this.

>>7610152
Yes, everything is a popularity contest zooms.

>>7610163
>duuuude let me tell you about painting
>can't paint
>nobody cares for his paintings
>n-not everything is about p-p-popularity!
yawn

>>7610165
>>can't paint
>>nobody cares for his paintings
These things are just not true, but hey you tried.

>>7610056
>Brainlets adore and praise rendering for a reason, and is why painting today is shit.
Like 99% of paintings in any gallery are painted by artists that couldn't render a sphere convincingly if they wanted to. You're more likely to see a painting of colourful balls or squeegee drags than anything done by a 'rendermonkey'.

>>7610082
>I hate the subject so much, the hate is bleeding into my general impression of the painting.
That would make it a successful painting, then.

>>7610166
too bad you can't say the same for him and painting lmoa

Seriously, where is this idea that le rendering is a dominant idea in painting coming from, twitter circlejerks? Least of all in this thread, we get maybe one roughly rendered painting per thread, if that.

>>7610167
I mean something that is also bad doesn't make something else less crap. Real painting is hard, and autistic photo rendering doesn't get you extra points.

>>7610176
Post real painting.

>>7610170
this thread is really not representative of the art world at large, anon. Come on now.
When was the last time you left the house and went to an art show? From amateur to professional levels, it's all about rendering.

>>7610180
Except it isn't and you just confirmed you're a retard who lives on social media.

>>7610176
It might be crap, but rendermonkeys are such a trivially inconsequential portion of the art market that they should just be ignored. Saying that they're making painting shit is just giving them entirely too much credit - they currently have no impact on painting whatsoever.
Picrel, on the other hand, is one of the most successful living artists.

>>7610180
lol no it isn't, it's all impressionism and stylized landscapes

gotta love how rendering makes shitters seethe like women when another girl gets all the attention kek

>>7610184
>successful living artists
And you claim this on what merit? I have no clue who this is, which doesn't mean anything, but I can't say that the painting is special in any way.

>>7610192
This isnt /beg/
Sorry, wrond thread kiddo.

>>7610201
could've fooled me kek
pyw

>>7610201
>This isnt /beg/
Should we tell him?

>This isnt /beg/

>>7610182
Mark Maggiori, sells out his shows for millions of dollars, hangs out with hollywood stars, etc. He does far west theme, rendermonkey style. Anybody on Arcadia, anybody coming out of GCA or Lyme academy, also rendermonkeys. It does take hard work and skill, which is why your aunt Jane doesn't do it, neither does anybody on Podunk Valley.

>>7610184
trad art doesn't just mean using trad mediums. Abstract art is not trad at all.

>>7610218
Maggiori is a plant, you fucking retard, he was hanging out with Hollywood starts before he picked up a brush, he was in a band with 4 studio albums and a music video director.
>From amateur to professional levels, it's all about rendering
>which is why your aunt Jane doesn't do it, neither does anybody on Podunk Valley.
???

>>7610200
Idk here's artfacts ranking. According to them he's literally the most successful living artist. This is based on exhibitions and large institutional collections.

>>7610218
>trad art doesn't just mean using trad mediums. Abstract art is not trad at all.
By that token no impressionistic or expressionistic painting is trad either.

>>7610224
>artfacts ranking
I have never heard of this stupidity. The world can't end soon enough.

>>7610218
False equivalence, Western shows aren't about rendering, they're about authenticity, you basically have to live on a ranch or collectors won't buy your shit. Maggiori was also already connected and had the Kenichi Smith appeal of a snooty Euro recognizing the superiority of American culture, which is validating to the Texas tie, silver buckle types that typically buy said art

>>7610222
you missed the part where I say it takes hard work and skill

>>7610251
>moving goalposts
You missed the part where you said art shows from amateur to professional levels are all about rendering.

>>7610102
I am no expert but it just looks like a photo.
Doesn't really do anything with the freedom that painting gives you either.
But I think it's well painted, still skillfully done but not to my taste.

>>7610082
Idk if its intentonal but the hands and shoes demand too much attention.

>>7610330
have you seen that face? it's definitely intentional

>>7610082
skillfully done, but I hate how these artists just copy reality, they don't narrate, they don't compose, they don't distort. It's like they're NPC's with no internal dialogue: "you sit there, I paint. Ah, it look very similar! Like photo!"
You see one of these paintings and you've seen them all.

>>7610082
souless shit, this anon >>7610338 said it best.

Overall, sucks still seeing digisloppers getting clout and illustration works instead of trad artists.

>>7609121
absolutely wonderful there anon

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. But do you guys have any recommendation for ink that I can find in amazon? I'm looking to refill a couple pens(fine point, brushpen, etc). Found a 30ml Winsor & Newton bottle for around 10 buck, I may default to that to see how I like it.

>>7608771
i used to watch him mostly about lead white and because i'm also critical of classical realism, not because i enjoy his works.
he seems like many of the boomers who lacked good training in the formative years, which is unfortunate because i appreciate at least that he composes out of his head. not that i think modern training (any kind) to be good either.
he seems to be preoccupied with a certain handling quality seen in lead white and it defines his technique that i find distracting.

>>7611143
>lacked good training
he grew up in a time when it was all contemporary art shit, it was really hard to find classical training back then. Now there's a sort of revival, plenty of academies trying to (not claiming they succeed) recover the traditional methods.

>>7611154
boomers had plenty of options besides contemporary art, what are you even talking about? they guy was around at the height of commercial art industry by the looks of him

>>7611154
boomers had plenty of options besides contemporary art, what are you even talking about? the guy was around at the height of the commercial art industry by the looks of him

>>7611154
the problem for boomers was that technical analysis of old master paintings were not yet advanced. they could maybe learn a lot from the drawings of old masters since they are direct, but there was no way to transition drawing into painting, nor did they know how the painting techniques related to drawing techniques.
i mention old masters because i notice a lot of boomer painters are more into works of old masters (renaissance and baroque) than the artists who were trained later who are more into academics.
the problem with classical realists is that they are formed out of a reaction against modernists who focused on technique as subject, only to do exactly the same in that regard.

>>7611143
He deliberately uses a very low value range so his paintings lack the dramatic factor we're all used to in modern times, with photography and film being this glooming subconscious point of reference for how beautiful image should look. He also half assess his head drawings, and it seems deliberate because when you watch his videos long enough you can see he clearly can do portraits.

All that being said, when you think about it, his paintings really are original. I mean, the guy really has a style where you can immediately figure out it's his painting. It's not some cringe contemporary meme style, it's just the way he paints. I guess that's a big achievement.

>>7611208
Show me one (1) zoomer who is able to make great realism.

>>7611337
i imagine we see the great shift towards traditional media with the generation in grade/middle school now. So many old fucks visibly saying "arts dead because im 35 and my $4/hour concept art job is gone!"

you can't just fucking tell children that art is dead because they all make art and b) adults are old and gay. If digital arts gone they'll find either new tech that works for those digital means or they'll switch en masse to traditional. As for Gen Z they're all sex addicted retards with drug problems so who cares, they'll be the first ones in the pods eating the bugs

>i shold pick up sculpting, besides my painting, as a hobby
>after a short research i found out its the post autistic and time consuming thing ever existed
Life is unfair anons.
I just cant find a complementing hobby to my art.
Tried to play guitar, i thought well im good at doing stuff with my hands, should make it easier. NOPE you need so much more finger coordination to play even the basic chords its nor even close to drawing.

>>7611386
> after a short research
https://www.youtube.com/@EirikArnesenArt/videos

I tried to do a watercolor study of the painting Odin and Brunehilde by Ferdinand Leeke and this is how far I got before giving up. It doesn’t look like the original at all, what am I doing wrong? Is it the values?
Do you have any tips/books/videos on master studies you’d recommend?

>>7611304
i don't think it's because of photography and film. i judge him against old masters, particularly renaissance, since that seems to be one of his main influences. it seems rather that he is enamored with the creamy quality of lead white, but since he does it with the shadows as well, it seems rather dull, chalky, and opaque. and because he shows the strokes rather haphazardly, the implied texture is messy and blotchy. overall i find the style discordant with the themes and subjects.
renaissance painting shows a fuller range of the manipulation and modification of the medium without making technique conspicuous.

Why are you all always arguing about esoteric art movements or whatever. Just paint. Here’s my painting.

>>7611485
you didn't even try

>>7611304
You're so fucking gay, Paul

Bad doodles of my characters since it’s been a minute since I drew them last

>>7611726
I think this was my last trad drawing of them

IDK where the to post this, but can anyone explain cy twombley? I get rothco, I get pollack, I even can tolerate picasso, but I can't understand anything about this guy.

>>7611485
>watercolor after an oil painting
>what am I doing wrong?
you're retarded

>>7611527
I did try
>>7611813
I do not own oil paints

>>7611485
>What an I doing wrong
Expecting radically different mediums to look the same. Shoulda finished, bro. It had potential.

>>7611823
there's no reason you couldn't get watercolor to look like that

>>7611843
Maybe you could. I can't. He definitely can't.

Currently working on this one. Hope that have it finished in time for a show.

>>7611849
leave it like that, if u photographed this and it looks good with those elements why fuck it up by doing more to it. i've sold and won shows with less brother

>>7611855
Well I appreciate it. But it's going to have many more deer in the background, shrouded in dark. You'll mainly see their eyes glowing and then light outlines of their bodies.

>>7611858
why do u feel it isnt that at the moment, thats exactly what it appears to be to me. if that's the intent of the painting, and what you want to convey, you're already there. in terms of recession of detail the front is rendered enough that the skeletal outlines in the back don't look "unfinished", relatively speaking they recede into the background accordingly in terms of value, composition, and style.

>>7611941

>relatively speaking they recede into the background accordingly in terms of value, composition, and style.

Are you joking?
They're white charcoal lines against a black background and a blocked painted foreground. I understand your consistent posting of extremely loose work, but I prefer things more polished and with proper lighting.

>>7611958
Yeah, ignore him, you're on the right track, don't be lazy

>>7611969
its not lazy its clearly ballsier if he doesnt want to do it. why be a rendermonkey when you can be a graphic horror artist. god forbid the uptight losers at this show clutch their pearls because le unfinished. i guarentee he wont win first place but theyll give him second place for having sack

I have finally started my oil painting arc. Wish me luck, frens!

>>7612127
I hope it goes better for you than it did for me

>>7612254
What happened?

>>7612259
I had just decided to bite the bullet and buy oil painting supplies when my boss sold the company and I became unemployed. It created a downward spiral of bad decisions generally and of technique and I haven't done any art since, other than a simple pen sketch at a party.
Logically I understand the absurdity of what I'm about to say, but being unemployed and doing art makes me a total loser but it was okay when I was working. Yes that doesn't make sense, but I simply can't. That guy is dead and no one wants to hire him. I can't do what he did, he doesn't exist anymore.
I was going to buy a proper glass pallet but the day I was going to order it that Peter draws got from YouTube is on my feed and bought the exact shit I was going to buy and made some fucking awful paintings.
I also stopped journaling. I was drawing in my journal a lot, but when every day is the same then writing in it becomes POW camp style torture.
I wasted a lot of paint mixing it wrong. I'm pretty sure I have myself mild cadmium poisoning by being messy.
See, I had no problem being mediocre when I had a real job and purpose, but being this old and unemployed and painting is peak midlife crisis cringe and very womanly.
So it's mostly not a technical issue, but there were some.

>>7612127
jelly of that bookshelf! Good luck cat bro, and remember, wagmi!

>>7611996
it's not render monkey to have a consistent style and technique throughout the painting.
the very fact that we can say the background deer are sketches while the front deer is painted proves that it looks and is unfinished. worse than not receding graphically they draw attention by the difference in technique. it would draw unnecessary attention to the difference in technique and style.

>>7611996
>hurr durr finishing a painting instead of leaving it as chalk on blank canvas is le rendermonkey
take your meds

I never felt blank page anxiety, but im really struggling with expensive page anxiety. When im finally drawing on a "good" page im too afraid to fuck up and i cant enter the flow state needed for good, effortless looking ink lines.
Its not thats its really the price of the page that matters. I sketch a lot, 95% of my drawings are sketches and 95% of those sketches are very loose and messy. So one solution is to always draw on the same paper. But as i sad i sketch a lot. Using good Arches cotton paper for it, would be insane, would cost me hundreds of euros monthly and most of it would be garbage by design.
Drawing everything on shitty paper is a bad solution as well, the results are not as good, cheap paper turns yellow and looses its shape faster. And its very bad for mixed media. You add a little bit watercolor and its completely warped.
I wanted to start selling my drawing as well, but it looks cheap on bad paper.

It seams like a autistic non problem, and it maybe is. But gets annoying. Im not kidding, i still have "good" paper i bought over 10 years ago. A have expensive sketchbooks, that are laying for years unused, still wrapped in foil.
I think i have a light form of Hypergraphia, so in the same time completely filled hundreds if not thousands of cheap paper pages.

>>7612675
a 100 euros of 100% cotton 300grm arches is 10 square meters of drawing surface even buying blocks, so I kinda doubt you'd go through hundreds of euros a month unless drawing at that scale
>i still have "good" paper i bought over 10 years ago
sizing has a shelf life of around 6 months before it starts degrading, you're not supposed to hoard sized paper

>>7612675
>>7612689
btw you can get 37x10m 300grm rolls of baohong for around 30 euros for student grade and 40 for artist grade off the temu app offers whenever you want basically, probably cheaper on ali occasionally
that said, you don't need 300grm at all if you're doing mixed media and sketches, so you can get by cheaper, even 90grm will take 3 washes easy

>>7612689
Arches A4, 17euros, makes 70 pages for 100 euros. If i would use it for everything, yes i would need 30 to 60 a month.
> im doing the thing im not supposed to do, how can i change it?
>you're not supposed to do the thing
Thanks, for the insight.

>>7612692
> btw you can get 37x10m 300grm rolls of baohong for around 30 euros for student grade and 40 for artist grade off the temu app
I dont use this app, but my father do i think, i could ask him.
Is the paper good for inking with g pen nibs?
Sounds good, should maybe try. 10m should be more than enough for a month.

>>7612695
so don't buy A4?
the roll would last you over 3 months at "30 to 60" A4 per month, where did you get hundreds of euros from?
this isn't even looking at the cheapest offer, just first result on google

>>7612697
you can buy a tester pack to try it, but if you've used arches, you know watercolor paper is not good for dip pens beyond HP
the student grade is smoother machine made paper, maybe cold press would be ok

>>7612697
also, the app offers you discounts on the stuff you normally buy, so just get the app
I only buy paper on it and I get offers on baohong daily

>>7612699
I never bought big formats, i buy blocks most og the time.
https://www.amazon.de/ARCHES-A1795096-Block-Aquarelle-Satin/dp/B086WS8BQD/258-2249517-1842840?pd_rd_w=HoNXt&content-id=amzn1.sym.faa21542-f146-4da2-af47-003477a2cb40&pf_rd_p=faa21542-f146-4da2-af47-003477a2cb40&pf_rd_r=3T5W9JBPMB1J8JDFX0ZF&pd_rd_wg=AmVSn&pd_rd_r=6524fa52-4295-474a-890e-3dd12bcd18c5&pd_rd_i=B086WS8BQD&psc=1
But i probably should.
>>7612700
I tried japanese manga paper, didnt really liked it, felt like plastic. Right now im using canson bristol, but im not the biggest fan of it eighter, its too slippery sometimes. But the lines are very thin and crisp. You will get some fethering even on cold pressed water color paper thats for sure.
>>7612705
I found tester packs on amazon, very overpriced, but think i will try it out and buy more directly from Chine when i like it.

>>7605708 (OP)
>le sitting in cuckshed unable to draw landscape by the eye
He is not my daddy

>>7612727
> He is not my daddy
Of course not.

>>7612675
I got over this by selling art so that I already am in the black numbers. Then I use that money to only buy the best paper/sketchbooks etc. I refuse to use cheap material if it is not fun to work with.

>>7612653
all ill say is you're expecting this competition show he's entering to play fair. it wont. ive done enough of them to see that the best you can hope for is 3rd, 2nd, or runner up places. 1st place goes to the judge's friend or a donor. every single time. play the game its set up or you lose. if the judge SEES that you're shooting for the top spot you won't place at all, you'll get in the show, but you're not leaving with any money.

>>7612781
>it's le rendermonkey to put actual paint on your painting
>w-well it's rigged anyway fuck you
seriously, meds

>>7612792
It’s already painted, what r u even talking about. I gave my side of what he should do, the evidence is in the fact he posted it already and I like it, so that’s my opinion. You’re saying the best version is the one he hasn’t done yet because you have schizophrenia. I know he’ll post the “finished” one and you’ll say REEEEE NO YOU MADE IT ALL WRONG YOU IDIOT because you have schizophrenia. I’ve posted enough “finished” art here and been told it was “better before” to know you retards don’t recognize good art, and just want to tell people what to do with theirs. You’re all wannabe art directors, but really you just have SCHIZOPHRENIA take your meds

>>7612820
bruh

>>7612838
cuz

What did I miss, why is Brian off his rocker this time?

>>7608924
There are other whites besides lead, titanium, and zinc, unfortunately they don't really make them that widely available despite these being often used as fillers or mix-ins in some other paints.
https://www.naturalpigments.com/barite-oil-paint.html
https://www.naturalpigments.com/lithopone-oil-paint.html

You can also buy the pigments on their own in places if you want to mull it yourself vs a 17USD+shipping tube.

>>7609967
>>7610056
Not really my taste but I enjoy it more than a lot of things I've seen. It is cohesive I'll give him that. Definitely not the kind of things that appeal to the type of person who only buys a real painting to flex their money, with the subject being the same kind of boring shit you see sold as prints at Target.
I can respect it.

>>7610217
This is also respectable, it's off kilter and weird but in a way that fits. Einstein is associated with space and black holes and shit so him being all fucked up in those cool greys actually is a good vibe. If it was anyone else, or in warmer tones or full colors it would be just a bad ugly painting.

IDK maybe I have more respect for an "engineering-style mindset", like making the painting edge into just barely working, where if you changed one aspect of it the whole thing falls apart.

>>7612612
>it would draw unnecessary attention to the difference in technique and style
nta but thats a thing some horror artists exploit, it's unsettling contrast to evoke emotion. But if you're not going for it then yea it's stupid

>>7612675
Do your sketches on one side and then when you fill a back page with sketches you can use it for finished work. If you fuck it up you still have your nice doodle page on the back and most good paper is thick so it won't show them thru, unless you're trying to draw on something intentionally thin and translucent.

The other anon's "solution" is a treadmill.
>Maybe if I buy PRODUCT my problem will be solved!
>I bought PRODUCT and my problem still exists
Treadmill

was I using oil pastels correctly here? I feel like you're supposed to be fast and expressive but I just fiddle around and noodle and attempt to scrape and mould it around like clay for hours. but if i try to be gestural and stuff it doesnt work and it leaves so much white paper everywhere and looks shit. also If I try to do big blocks of color it doesnt work because I can't get the right color/value without mixing, even though my set is 50 colors, but mixing colors is so painful and requires so much noodling. Its been like 2 months since i did these but i want to try some plein air stuff with pastels now that it's sunny so I wanted to get an opinion

>>7612779
Based, whats your secret. I have fucked up and have to go back to my main job, that i dont like very much, even though its kinda related with art.
>>7612904
> There are other whites
I bought Holbeins Ceramic White as well, but its strange. I donth think i will buy it again. But lead i definitely will.
> Do your sketches on one side and then when you fill a back page with sketches you can use it for finished work
I dont like the idea at all, desu.
> Treadmill
I mean he isnt wrong. I had a fork between drawing on cheap paper or good but expensive paper. And he showed me good, but not very expensive paper. It sounds like a good solution.
I mean i will not use up the paper i have and then when i have to buy new paper anyway, i will try the Chinese one. I mean i can always use paper and i can ever go back.

Wait a minute, like can it be that this cringe lord is really monitoring this thread?
I noticed, one guy here, gets hardcore triggered whenever one mentions capitalism even slightly negatively. Is it him, it looks like our guy is a fan of exploitation as well.

>>7612933
I think it was just a meme, but like 3 or 4 years ago there was a rumor going around that Colleen used to hang out here on /trad/. Somebody posted some in-progress drawings and then some anon traced them back to Colleen's account.

I think if Will actually did hang out here, his meme game would be much stronger.

>>7612933
>attempt at /pol/ derail
You are supposed to keep your area well-ventillated when handling solvents. Maybe check to make sure you took your meds today as well.

>>7612904
>The other anon's "solution" is a treadmill
No, it isn't. I was the same and the solutions simple: just buy the stuff and use it. The issue is not using the stuff, the solution is to use it. Simple.
His issue stems from exaggerating the cost by a factor of >4 in his head, which is solved by confronting the reality that he won't come even close to spending hundred of yurobucks a month.
Your "solution" is avoiding a problem that only exists as a made up scenario in his head.

>>7612969
>His issue stems from exaggerating the cost by a factor of >4 in his head
No I've see this shit happen before and usually such a person STILL gets paralyzed even if the gap is small in price. It's not something that is solved by buyfagging your way out of it, it's solved by accustoming yourself to making things using it and providing an emotional buffer and fallback for the times it sucks.

The ultimate goal is to not give a fuck and see everything you do as worth it in the long run.

>>7610338
Yeah I seen other anons point this out about "hyper realism oil paints" and easily point out some old masters art, and they easily mog these hyper realistic artists lol. Its not even close.

>>7612984
I literally just told I solved it by just doing it anyway, stop insisting he can't overcome an insignificant mental hurdle like he's contemplating taking a vow of celibacy or something.

>>7612984
>providing an emotional buffer and fallback for the times it sucks

>>7612992
Buyfagging just leads to this "hehe le quirky artist" shit.

>>7612997
>draw your sketches on one side
>now you have some nice stuff on one side of the paper
>now you can use the other, still clean side for ink and such
>if you fuck up the other side, just turn the paper over - now you have still got your nice sketches

Bonus
>if it turns out good, and you sell your final piece, it adds some extra oomph in that the buyer has all these extra cool doodles "hidden" behind it

>>7613000
>projecting your mental shortcomings this hard
Just stop posting, this is embarrassing.

>>7613000
>i still have "good" paper i bought over 10 years ago. A have expensive sketchbooks, that are laying for years unused, still wrapped in foil
his problem isn't not buying material, it's not using it, retard
like what the fuck are you even arguing at this point

>>7613006
How about you take the time to actually understand the mentality of people who aren't yourself? I know your parents had a hard time with that when raising you, but you don't have to repeat their mistakes.

>>7613008
Many people buy things or are gifted things and then get paralysis when it comes time to actually use it, but then still buy more things thinking that they will actually use it this time, really, for real. Seriously, this one will be it. That'll break the art block. Then after they use it enough the fear will go away.

This is the kind of thing more related to impostor syndrome and similar problems. That such a person is worried about making art that's "worth using such paper for" and fear of fucking it up and ruining something expensive.

The vast majority of what you make will end up rotting in a landfill in 100 years anyway. Stop caring so much.

>>7613014
>>7612997

>>7613016
>anon reveals he only has transactional relationships with other people
Many such cases

>it's the jeet spammer
lel no wonder he's upset people buy things

>>7612913
there's not one approach: keep having fun, exploring the medium's possibilities, and building skills

>>7612286
can't be upbeat all the time always. enjoy the slower days, wait for the next opportunity, don't beat yourself too hard, enjoy doing bits of arts here and there just for fun

>>7613026
I'm no jeet, I just like that image.
>upset people buy things
I'm not. I just see some anon having a problem and someone else shilling buying crap as the solution. It's like if you fucking told someone sad to eat ice cream, drink, smoke, or do drugs. Congrats, you're giving someone a retarded expensive cope rather than trying to help them actually solve their problems.

holy shit what a retard

>>7613014
In my experience any adult sitting on art supplies had them gifted to them because they spend all their money on booze and dating, so occasionally some bum friend of theirs goes “hey don’t u like do art or whatever” and hands them a lined notebook from Walmart, and they treasure it for eternity. Thats like twenty bitches I’ve known over the years is you go to their apartment and they’re like that’s my sketchbook for my art and it’s fucking empty. Like literally untouched. “My friend gave it me”

>>7613030
...his issue is not using the expensive stuff he buys and not liking the cheap stuff he uses, retard. What about giving him a cheaper quality option is "like telling him to use drugs"? Are you literally mentally disabled?

>>7613035
Every artist I know is known, including myself, is often viewed as "THE artist" among their friends and family, and so for birthday presents and christmas and other crap you will occasionally be gifted random ass sketchbooks and other art supplies.
One of my buddies was, at different points over the years, given some prismacolor markers and a dip pen set. He doesn't even do trad primarily.

>>7613038
You didn't read his first line. He quite literally said it's ANXIETY.
>im too afraid to fuck up and i cant enter the flow state needed for good, effortless looking ink lines.
>Its not thats its really the price of the page that matters
>most of it would be garbage by design.

Does this sound like someone who is struggling with the fact that the paper is expensive, or the fact that he feels like his art isn't "worth" putting onto anything but cheap shit?

>>7613040
You're projecting way too hard, pal, not everything is caused by a deep-seated lack of self esteem.

>>7613041
>guy literally says he has anxiety
>obviously can draw pretty fucking well
>psh nah its just the cost barrier, surely. can't be anything else, must be projection if someone says something otherwise

Well after thinking a little bit more about it, buying more stuff can seam contra productive. But maybe the solution is to buy only the Chinese paper, nothing else.
This is stuff i have lying around. Most of it is not opened and never used. Some of the blocks i used once or twice, felt bad, never used again.

>>7613058
>This is stuff i have lying around.
I have more than this.
And I'm going to use all of it. I don't even remember how much some of it costed.

But im not a fucking nodraw, quite the opposite, as i sad, i think i have a light version of hypregraphia.
What i found out several months ago, drawing on
bills and letters from some bureaucrats is the most fun. Very relaxing and stressless.
>>7613065
> And I'm going to use all of it
I will probably not.

>>7613068
>I will probably not.
I dare you to not buy new paper until you've used all of your old paper.

>>7613058
just keep using it, it's normal to feel bad wasting good paper, that's why every watercolor book tells you to deal with it in the first 5 pages, everyone goes through it and everyone who teaches it has to deal with students being afraid of paper
also, that's not much paper and the tiny block is kinda useless anyway, I have one lying around unused simply because I see no reason to use it over my pricier bigger paper

>>7612904
> Do your sketches on one side and then when you fill a back page with sketches you can use it for finished work.
Actually, now that im thinking about it, quite often i do the opposite.
I start a new piece, and im thinking okey, lets use a nice piece of paper and render out something decent. And then im halfway through and i realize that it looks like shit. So the page is dead and i can finally draw something fun on it.

>>7613085
>something fun
>floating loomis heads and boxes
Are you "having fun" or are you in your comfort zone of not really trying?

>>7613029
It's been six months. I came here to try to reconnect, but it's not working. Thank you for the response.

>>7613085
Honestly, anon why not just lean into filling pages with small drawings? If it's what you like doing it's what you like doing. Who says you have to do large "complete" pictures? If your art is best done as an overwhelming multitude of smaller ones, then go for it. You can improve your individual skills on each as you go up.

The stuff you did here >>7612675
is really quite nice. Doing more like the cthulhu(?) head on one page could be something neat. You can do things like fill the inbetween area with patterns or some other stuff. Some people smear paint onto a canvas to get a bunch of color and texture as a base layer, then start to paint around it to create form from chaos.

All many ways to do it. The importance is that you make yourself relax even during the parts that are challenging, and just make things.

>>7613078
> I dare you to not buy new paper until you've used all of your old paper.
Not sure it will happen. I have literally paper that i bought as a child, still.
I was i huge weeb as a kid. So i bought all the Japanese stuff, which was expensive back than. Deletter paper, g pen nibs, tombow erasors like the full weeb package.
I used 1 or 2 pieces of paper, the rest is still there. Thats over 10 yers for sure.
>>7613080
I heard this advice. But it doesnt really help. I mean of course i could just use the good paper. But i cant reach the flow state with it.
>>7613088
> or are you in your comfort zone of not really trying?
I think thats it.

>>7613112
To become better at art you need to push yourself consciously out of your comfort zone.

Wow it's almost like the anons pushing the buyfaggery and shitting on the idea that it could be a deeper issue were wrong.

Petty, but I had to.

>>7613094
> If your art is best done as an overwhelming multitude of smaller ones, then go for it.
I tried that several times, it feels forced.
I watched i video by Sinix about his top 10 fav artists. And one of them was a spanish guy, if i remember correctly, and he was doing kind of splash art pages in his sketchbook. I tried to do the same, but it felt like work, not like sketching.
I think pic related is from this period.
>>7613115
But shouldn't sketching feel comfortable?

>>7613112
Nigger, you need to get used to the paper, just stop thinking about le flow state and draw. You're not a master producing wonders by the grace of the Holy Spirit, 90% of what you posted are literal /beg/ exercises, the flow state isn't doing you any favors.

>>7613127
>But shouldn't sketching feel comfortable?
No. The opposite. Doodling is comfort, sketching is work.

>>7613127
What you're doing isn't sketching, sketching is just normal work stopping short of finished, you're doodling.

>>7613094
> Doing more like the cthulhu(?) head
Yeah, im painting quite a lot monster and horror stuff right now. Pic related is older though, tried to draw somewhat tighter.
>>7613126
> deeper issue
I was never attested with anything, so im as normal as you are.
>>7613128
> the flow state isn't doing you any favors
Why not?
>>7613131
Im obviously esl, sketching, doodling are synonyms. I guess im doodling than. But i hate the word. It must be this Bouba - Kiki thing. Doodling sounds round and retarded. Sketching sound sharp and cool.
>>7613136
Whats the difference between drawing and sketching then?
The Anglos were not relevant during the Renaissance. The Italians and French invented all the concepts around art.
What is the Italian or French concept for doodling?

>>7613142
>Doodling sounds round and retarded. Sketching sound sharp and cool.
Now you're getting it. One is mindlessly drawing and having fun. The other one is purposeful and not always fun.

>>7613142
>never attested with anything
deeper issue doesn't mean something diagnosable. it just means that your problem was more related to your perception, beliefs and emotions than the specific relationship to the cost of the paper.

>>7613142
What purpose does arguing semantics serve, retard?

>>7613094
> You can do things like fill the inbetween area with patterns or some other stuff.
I tried that, but it was rather too messy or too much work. And you lose the shape of the objects, which isnt grate as well.
>>7613153
Im not arguing semantics. But i dont really see 3 kinds of drawing, however you call it. A lot of people on twitted call tight painted pieces doodles.
Show me 3 pictures of a doodle, a sketch and a drawing.
>>7613146
And whats the third thing then?
>>7613150
I thin i said in my my original post, that i dont think that its directly about money. Its more about higher expectations, i think.

>>7613166
>And whats the third thing then?
Producing a finished piece.

My other strategy to make it look more presentable, is to draw little frames around subjects. It can work, but more often then not it feels like im wasting space. And the flow of the page is interrupted.
>>7613170
Okey, sounds legit.
But there is still the paradox of the heap. What makes my stuff doodles and not sketches?

jfc just stop feeding the retard

>>7613178
>What makes my stuff doodles and not sketches?
Doodle: flow state
Sketch: painful and learning new stuff
>>7613181
At least he has potential even though he's a bit stuck atm

But my newest strategy is to give everything the same texture. I have a feeling it tieds everything together.

>>7613170
Sorry, i forgot, that that's a debating club about the old masters and postmodernism.
>>7613186
> Doodle: flow state
> Sketch: painful and learning new stuff
I dont know. Tbh i think what i do is sketching. Fun but somewhat hard. More hard and less fun would be a drawing, and doodling is much less structured.
When im drawing, i am thinking about anatomy, and perspective, and form and shapes. Not a lot, but still. Its not exactly a children's drawing.

>>7613197

>>7613197
>>7613201
You are VERY clearly not challenged by ANY of the shit in >>7613085 besides the central figure that you ran away from into comfort zone doodle land around it. Same goes for >>7613178, nothing there gives you even a modicum of challenge.
>When im drawing, i am thinking about anatomy
You really, really aren't.
I'm not gonna reply again, get your shit together.

>>7612913
I've never used oil pastel but I have some experience with oil paint. I think it's somewhat similar.
> I feel like you're supposed to be fast and expressive
Whet it means is, don't waste time on polishing turds, you are not doing it. It looks good, just keep painting.

Strathmore toned paper 003 unipin pen

>>7613255
did you draw the cock on purpose?

>>7613257
it was unironically a subconscious mental failure and then i tried to conceal it but failed

I wasn't going to pay this but since we're posting low quality sketches/doodles I will.
After months of not touching my art supplies I grabbed a yellow pad and a fountain pen that still works and tried drawing weird people on YouTube (Roy Jay among them, see the /x/ thread of you're bored /x/ >>40538631)
By this thread's definition this is sketching and not doodling as this is work. My abilities, though not great to begin with, have clearly decayed.
It's shit, I have no delusions about this, but I've made the first step and picked up a pen.

Any advice on how to proceed?
>Just keep drawing
I'm definitely doing that. I'm still unemployed and I need the distraction and I have enough art supplies that I won't run out before I'm homeless (if I don't find work.)
No, I don't work in art, I had a boring blue collar job.

>>7613372
go to /beg/

>>7613372
>Any advice on how to proceed?
Finished pieces should be your next goal. Plan a thing, do sketches and studies you need, then draw the thing.

>>7613380
No.
>>7613394
Yeah, probably. I can't think of what I'd want to draw or what medium to do next so I'll keep doing this for now.
I'd like to draw my pets but they don't hold still. I can do it from photos, but I don't like that.

>>7613401
>I can't think of what I'd want to draw
Get more creative then (there's YouTube videos on this)
Drawing without a goal in mind will lead nowhere.

>>7613402
I used to draw the stuff at work, but I'm at home mostly now.
I can always just use online pictures but I don't find that fulfilling. There are exceptions.
>No Goal
That issue goes way beyond art. I'm not going into the details but my life got totally fucked from something what so if I'm distracted from the emotional trauma that's a win. But I know, you mean specifically about progressing in art. I had the goal to do fast gouache drawings of job sites (like James Gurney) and give them to customers but that dream is gone or at least on hold.
Maybe I should go to parks or something.

Does anyone know of any art books/collections of old religious/Christian art? I'm looking to do some studies on them but honestly have no idea where to really start.

>>7613744
Go to a bookstore. I've seen a bunch in the art section of barnes and noble. Probably a bunch at your local library or ask the people who work at a local church if they can recc any. Sometimes they have small libraries with things like that too you can look at while there.

>>7613744
what the other guy said, go to a decent bookstore and you'll find something, the art section is full of books that are 90% images of paintings
you are very unlikely to find decent scans online because that's the kind of crap only artists use and the file size would be retarded for the images to be in good quality, but you could flip through the scan and then try to find good photos of the ones you like online

>>7613978
>you are very unlikely to find decent scans online
A lot of museums have actually got high res images now of things, even wikipedia has giga-huge images people took of some shit with DSLRs. A good chunk of shit can just be LOST in fires or due to mistakes of transport, handling, etc so I think there was a move starting some years ago to begin digitizing things. It's slow but every couple of years something like the 3D-scanned cleopatra head is bandied about.

But yes it's still not as common as you would hope and mostly the big well-known things.

>>7614059
I was referring to the books themselves, that's why I said he could flip through them and look up the individual images online. Archive is basically the only place with good book scans, everyone else compresses the fuck out of them, which is okay for text, but murders images
picrel, every scan on AA looks like this and yet retards keep shilling it on /ic/ of all places

>>7614078
>I was referring to the books themselves
Oh, my b for misunderstanding, totally agree in that case.

A lot of books are tiny images, and maybe it's just my super myopia but I do find a digital image of the same thing to often be easier to study. Can't find what you don't know exists though, and additional commentary is often really useful, which is what books are really good for. More like catalogues, I suppose.

>>7614078
>>7614106
I go to the only remaining bookstore and look at them physically. Lots of these huge books are mostly text and have tiny images. Sometimes I want a reference that isn't on a screen as well.

>>7614140
You're probably looking at art history books rather than art books. They're usually huge and have full page prints with only occasional text pages. Obviously, the images are sometimes extremely scaled down because the original is a couple of meters across, but they're very useful for studying.
>the only remaining bookstore
All the streets with high pedestrian traffic here have 4+ bookstores, the main one has over 10, with a couple of chains having multiple stores within 100m on the same street. Every mall has at least two stores from the large chains. Just sit on a train and take a day trip to the city if you live in a small town.

>>7614147
Well then I just live in a shittier place than you. It's a Barnes and Noble and that's what the "art" section looks like. All the other stores closed years ago.

>>7613744
its sad how you can literally see 125,000 ancient Greek pottery works on the Beazley achieve yet no such centralized achieve exists for medieval art
philhellenes should be thankful

>>7614260
The middle ages are kind of fake tho

>>7614300
based knower
more like charlatanmagne amirite

>>7614346
Anything after the Iron Age is conjecture

>>7614351
for me, it was all over after the invention of writing

>>7611522
I like your tree a lot, anon.

>>7613744
I visited the MNAC in Barcelona a couple of times, they have a whole floor dedicated to medieval romanesque and gothic art, it's quite interesting, maybe take a look on their website, definitely worth the visit if you are around there.

>>7614604
>MNAC in Barcelona
is that the one where they have tons of Fortuny's work? I'm really looking forward to finally going there

>>7614611
They do have a few of his paintings, the Battle of Tetuan being a huge battlefield painting of his, it's really amazing. There's a small room dedicated to orientalism too. The whole second floor of the museum is dedicated to "modernism" and I initially thought it would be trash but what they consider modernism is basically all 19th century academic work, also art nouveau poster and furniture design, and more.
I stayed in Barcelona for like 6 months and been to the MNAC I believe 4 times.

I went to the local library, and they had nothing but modern and indigenous people's art. I'll probably head downtown to check out the library and bookstores there in a few days. Hopefully there'll be more variety there. Failing that, I might ask around the local churches.

this made me think, where is all the jewish religious art?
I can recall examples of christian, buddhist, shinto, even muslim religious art, but I don't think I've ever seen jewish art, and they're arguably the group most closely defined by their religion

>>7614713
>where is all the jewish religious art?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_art#Medieval_Jewish_art

>>7614844
>posts literally nothing
ffs the manuscripts are scenes of daily life and the synagogue is just drawings of lobsters and fish, I asked about religious art, not art made by jews

>>7614849
Historically, until Napoleon they were kept in ghettos and just painted inside their shitty hidden synagogues, most of which probably got paved over multiple times as they kept moving around.
And yes, that IS jewish religious art. That's what they put on things. I've lived near rather hardline jews (they are cunts even to less-hardline jews) and they really don't make very "impressive" religious art, it's all about that kind of daily life and bland symbolism.
What are you expecting? Grand scale masterpieces like The Prince Of Egypt in 8ft-wide painting form?

>>7614856
>What are you expecting?
depictions of mythological scenes for their religion, you know, just like every other religion
idk why you're acting like the term religious art is some nebulous concept you can't quite wrap your mind around, a drawing of a lobster isn't religious art just because someone drew it on a temple wall any more than a drawing of a candle is one because there are candles drawn in christian churches

>>7614856
>And yes, that IS jewish religious art. That's what they put on things
It's just decorative art, there's nothing religious about it. If you saw those painted on the wall of a kindergarten classroom you'd have no clue to it being anything but random paintings of animals.

>>7614864
Jews have heavy traditions of aniconism because the standard for centuries has been to interpret the 2nd commandment as strictly as possible to prevent idol worship. They also don't proselytize so they have no reason to make anything that "advertises" the religion to others.

That's the difference between the islamic art (which is also aniconic) and jewish stuff. Both are afraid to depict something that could turn into idol worship, but the lack of proselytization is the key for jews.

>>7614870
sounds like cope

>>7614869
>If you saw those painted on the wall of a kindergarten classroom you'd have no clue to it being anything but random paintings of animals.
That's kind of the point. They don't make things for us non-jews, they make things for people who are raised-from-birth jewish.
>>7614874
I don't know what you expect from a religion whose fundamentalists are quite literally helpless in current society without people of other religions on friday and saturday to do things like push elevator buttons in a hospital for them or turn their AC back on if one of their 7 kids happens to turn it off while goofing around.

>>7614879
No, that's like saying tile mosaics are "Islamic religious art". They aren't, they're just used in decorating religious buildings, like tile roofs are used to stop rain from getting in, and doors to. at access, it doesn't make the tiles and doors religious.

>>7614886
>>7614879
No, that's like saying tile mosaics are "Islamic religious art". They aren't, they're just used in decorating religious buildings, like tile roofs are used to stop rain from getting in, and doors to bar access, it doesn't make the tiles and doors religious.

>>7614889
Then you already got your answer earlier. Aniconism means that they make "decorative religious art" primarily, with some symbolism involved. "Non-decorative jewish religious art" being a minority of things, and mostly just depictions of other jews in formal worship attire. Which I'm sure would not count by what is being outlined here.

The original anon asked "where is it?" and the answer is that it doesn't exist in any real great numbers.

>>7614895
https://www.unz.com/article/how-fake-is-roman-antiquity/
This might explain a bit.
The Renaissance is the result of the sack of Constantinople. Do you really think they just forgot everything and suddenly remembered it after 1000 years?
The time period your looking for is mostly fiction. You might as well look at fantasy works.

Well not (you) but whoever bought it up in the first place

>>7614930
>A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
a collection of fantasy works

>>7614930
>>7614931
Yea you replied to the wrong anon. The discussion about jewish art and the discussion about medievalisms don't directly intersect.

>>7614932
Believe what you'd like. You'll certainly be happier.
The last time I went to an art museum and looked at the artifacts by time period, the distribution certainly matches a shorter timeline.
There were medieval items, but you had a modern quality hyper realistic sarcophagus next to a sub Saharan Africa tier carving of Jesus. It made no sense.

it's funny how the redditor soience types start shaking when their "knowledge" is brought into question
>look at these historical writings not coinciding with our understanding of human history
>nooooooo it's fantasy it's fake you believe in flat earth!1
>look at these newfound remains predating our understanding of when these developments were made
>noooooooo it's fake you believe in ancient aliens and reptilian moon bases1!

>>7614930
>>7614954
>>7614976
There is a third way between "it's all real" and "much is later forgeries":

Nobody was ever under any obligation to write truthful statements down, and the survival of a text of art is not indicative of it reflecting reality, just being something a person FELT was worth keeping around. Everyone has things like that.

This has been known to be an issue since writing was invented, and becomes a new "problem" each time new technology is.

>>7614930
>>7614954
>>7614976
There is a third way between "it's all real" and "much is later forgeries":

Nobody was ever under any obligation to write truthful statements down. A sculpture of a person may not be of any real person, it could be someone's OC or a figure from a long-forgotten story or fable.
The survival of a text or artwork is not indicative of it reflecting reality, just being something a person FELT was worth keeping around. Everyone has things like that.

This has been known to be an issue since writing was invented, and becomes a new "problem" each time new technology is.

>>7614986

>>7614999
Nice trips, but you have me pegged wrong. Also I was making a joke by calling it "a third way" but you are too stupid to have gotten it.

Hmm maybe I should make a black and yellow themed picture at some point... so much to do, so much to do...

>>7615001
No, I got it, it's a pun on "turd way" because you're brown, I have too much class to engage with such "wit"

>>7615009
>class
>makes poop joke

>>7615018
Joke?

>>7614986
Well the original not off topic point was anon wanting large pictures of medieval art and there isn't a ton of it.

Last I checked, the DIA website has high resolution images of a good chunk of their collection available free online. I don't know how easy it would be to search their site by period, not is worth a try. It's not a book, but it's something.

Not fantastic it seems

>>7612127
Kassel?

>>7615088
The Documenta is in Kassel, correct. I live in Leipzig tho.

>>7612511
Thanks, fren!
The bookshelves are a bit of a liabilty there because of paint spills. I don't want to paint in any of the other rooms though. Library room is peak comfiness.

Atm I'm condemned to paint with acrylics because I'm at work. I still hate acrylics with a passion but at least I'm gaining some skill points in brush control, I guess.

>>7614976
Even those archeologists wouldn’t say it’s that, the Redditor just craves knowledge in the form of a fun fact. A working anthropologist would tell them “are you fucking stupid? We piece together a fun fact booklet off this 4000-7000 year old carbon dated shard of pottery for CHILDREN to look at for FUN”

“No bro carbon dates are basically the writings of a historian from the time period”. It’s especially hilarious when people think you can write a neat package of pre-history when the people then couldn’t even fucking write. Because they were all busy not getting eaten.

i have faber castell supersoft and steadler graphite tinted watercolour pencils. How can i work with both in the same drawing?

>>7616058
i used both for that drawing

>>7616062
in this one i used the watercolour with some filgo markers

>>7616062
i did pic related with the same tinted watercolour pencils an dsome filgo markers

Acrylic paint probably isnt the best but I’m a fan

>>7616499
It's good for what it does. No waiting and it dries permanent and potentially archival depending on pigment. Nothing wrong with that if you don't mind the limited working time.

>Make best painting yet
>It yellows

>>7611337
More a Zillenial then a Zoomer but Anne Weyant is pretty good

>>7616922
I wouldn't call that realism, it looks like a cartoon
The bread is disgusting btw

>>7616922
The fish kill it, you can tell the eggs were hyper realistically rendered in pain staking detail, then she sort of sped through the rest.

>>7616952
the eggs have outlines, they're cartoons

>>7608771
Paul uses alla prima, no matter how good you draw if you use that in paint without adhering to academic methods he does not like then you are never going to produce the kind of painting you want, that's kind of the entire reason that academicism came about, artists chose to use layers less so they substituted with more observation. I say that because whenever he is brought up people go "Why is this guy who looks like he can't really paint talking." and apparently that's the first thing someone like Damien-- I forgot the guys last name but some guy he got into a fight with and that was the first thing he said.
Paul is not wrong about a few things
>though
-You are not a classical painter if you do realism, even the worst hobbyist who likes 16th century paintings is going to have a better claim than the worlds best GCA graduate.
-Art is one of the few fields which is not slave to material reality and constraints or to politics in fact it can shape the world as we know it.
-Almost all the critiques he gives are legitimate, even critiques on critiques like his responses to The Yearbook Committee however critique is easy, doing is hard.
-Modern classical realism is a distinct thing not really connected to the past at all, at best it's roots are in the 18th century by which all knowledge of painting had been lost.

>>7616964
I don't care about the second half, but the first part isn't a defense of the guy, it's far more damning than "he's not good at painting" because what it says is that he's fundamentally wrong in his principles and sabotaging his painting. There's no talking around this; his insistence on his headcanon is making his art shit.

>>7616922
the butterknife floating out of a singular piece of bread is a much more clever statement then the more common trope and easy crowd pleaser the fish have of 'unusual object mundane setting' the ambiguity of the bread is superior to the fish and the eggs in the middle create a tension and distrust that makes one question if the eggs to are also a bear trap to the obverse the same way the bread is. this inturn causes the sharp toothed fish to become the comforting refreshing familiar of the trope vs the alarming unease of the uncertain

>>7616983

>>7616975
Yeah learning to paint properly takes up more importance than "Theory" ever could, but it isn't a defense, Pauls head canon is right even if he cannot adhere to it himself, it's just to explain why he isn't adhering to it even if he is right.
If he isn't following his own principles and that's the problem it doesn't debunk them if anything it reinforces them further because he's failing to meet them himself.

>>7611358
>>7610184
>>7610167
>>7609121
>>7608000
>>7607901
that looks like shit

>>7616956
>>7616922
I kinda like the plastic feel it has

>>7617008
I wouldn't call it ugly, but I wouldn't call it realism.
That one is very symbol-heavy, I don't think realism was even a concern, it strikes me more as a naive version of commercial illustration stylistically than anything

>>7608771
I had never heard of him until now, the algorithm didn't reveal him to me when searching for oil painting videos.
What about his politics? Why is that a thing?

>>7611849
And basically all done.

And is it Rhodes or Rhoads?

>>7616987
>If he isn't following his own principles and that's the problem it doesn't debunk them if anything it reinforces them further because he's failing to meet them himself.
Holy shit an actually intelligent post on this board for once. So many people do not understand this and think that being good at art comes with the self-awareness of WHY you're good, and will listen to ignorant fucks who paint/draw well purely out of their results, and then ignore the good teachers who understand deeper but aren't all that good in their personal work.
It's insane.
This applies to all fields not just art too. Like in a /fit/ context, Arnold's advice was (and probably still is) shit while dedicated coaches like Rippetoe actually know what they are doing despite looking like a fat sack of potatoes.

I was somewhat dismissive of this dude before because I presumed it was just some guy who had some basic "artistic redpills" (for lack of a better term, it's almost 84deg F and I am cooking) I already knew, but I'll have to take a look now thanks to this and >>7616964

>>7617090
I liked it with the sketches before...
I think the other anon was right.

>>7617067
>What about his politics? Why is that a thing?
I presume his youtube is gone related to the fact he has a playlist on his odysee titled "Neofascism" and from a quick glance, some videos about race and women.

So he's a bugman like a lot of artists, just a black ant instead of a red ant. But being from the smaller, similar yet opposing tribe means he has tapped into a few areas of knowledge that are useful, but heterodox.

Probably why there's a youtube playlist someone made compiling just some of his art videos.

>>7617090
you lost too many of the lights, the earlier low major key version with the white burn-in and hard drop off was better, made it look like the deer was lit by a flashlight at close range
background deer are also contrasting too much with the darkness

>>7616922
What is this? Looks weird as hell.
The basket is painted Vermeer style. The eggs do have hatching lines? The fish looks like a cartoon?

>>7617140
I tried listening to him on art and politics. He rambles. He stutters.
>Neofacist
I think he's actually anti fascist (but anti vaxx, the videos are years old) but he just WON'T GET TO THE FUCKING POINT and I can't be bothered to wait and find out.
I'd rather watch one of those course shilling YouTube assholes than another minute of this mealey mouthed sperg. He makes Terry Davis look like Walter Cronkite.

>>7617128
>Like in a /fit/ context, Arnold's advice was (and probably still is) shit while dedicated coaches like Rippetoe actually know what they are doing despite looking like a fat sack of potatoes.
Rippetoe never produced a specimen that didn't look like a fat t-rex whereas Arnold's regiments are credited by many prominent bodybuilders.
Rippetoe never even pretended (AFAIK) to be training anyone for physique.

>>7617148
Yeah I think I'll up the contrast. Chiaroscuro is so hard to photograph on top of that.

>>7617161
>know what they are
What they're doing is getting you a fat fuckable ass for your husband to enjoy.

>>7617161
>Rippetoe never produced a specimen that didn't look like a fat t-rex whereas Arnold's regiments are credited by many prominent bodybuilders.
NTA but fine Mike Mentzer then.
Or Lee Haney.
Multiple body builders who are both high volume and high intensity all disagree with Arnold who exist.

>>7617178
Neither of them look "like a fat sack of potatoes" and don't fit the allegory of "good teachers who understand deeper but aren't all that good in their personal work", both of them were high ranking bodybuilders, especially Haney who's one of the greatest, most successful bodybuilders of all time.

>>7617161
>>7617183
Specifics being unrelated (not to mention that arnold is on record as having said he gave bad advice to fuck with people, and that rippetoe is primarily a powerlifting coach, not for BBing), the initial point of teaching, research, and performing being different skillsets still stands.

>>7617161
Arnold published a book that spelled out the basics in a way that was unavailable at the time (to a teenage me at least). This was before Terminator when his mist well known films were "stay hungry" and "Hercules goes bananas."
Soon after that it went out of publication and was replaced by a tome of lies and misinformation in collaboration with his business partner and supplement salesman Joe Weider.
It's hard to appreciate this because if you look at this book today it's just basic common knowledge, but I assure you that in the early 80's this information was nearly impossible to find.

The point is that it's about monetisation and the guild mentality. The real info in any field is usually simple and easy to find, but the beginner "how to" stuff is a sales pitch for things you don't need at best, and active sabotage at worst.

>>7617199
I was referring to the encyclopedia, yeah.
>>7617198
It's not "specifics", that's the entirety of the post I replied to. Literally nothing was said besides masturbating to being so intelligent you don't judge teachers based on personal accomplishment and contrasting your high IQ to people who chose teachers based on their personal work. Mentzer and Haney are squarely in the category of high achievers.

>>7617208
>masturbating to being so intelligent
This is an anonymous image board. What would someone get out of doing something like that? There's no identity tied to it.
>people who chose teachers based on their personal work
This is extremely, profoundly wrong and has been a huge problem with education, especially in the arts, for decades. It's even worse with monkey see monkey do social media imitation. Past a certain point of mastery you can make mistakes in some areas of skill and still have success due to the other skills you have compensating for it. That's what's often misconstrued as "talent", the ability to do something so absolutely wrong on a technical or material level and yet still be good, or - again for art specifically - obtain uniqueness out of it.
Teachers MUST be scrutinized and questioned by their students, and the teachers must be prepared for this sort of dialogue. Both halves of the coin need to be prepared to be wrong. Teaching is dialogue, and it is "Co-op PvE" where participants must attack topics, with the teacher taking the lead. It's not dueling or in any way "PvP".
So when you have a teacher who paints very well but has poor responses to students and gives genuinely bad advice, they are a bad teacher and are more likely to waste their students' time and money, moreso acting as a catalyst for their own investigation than a real instructor. While a good teacher may not make the best work, but they encourage experimentation and questioning (internally while artmaking AND during class/instruction hours), and modifying their own approach if the interaction with the students produces new insight.
Education for skills like art are not the passing down unquestionable catechisms to indoctrinate people into an order, they are living, unending processes of human development that transcend generations.

Does that clear things up?

he mad

>>7617226
>>masturbating to being so intelligent
>This is an anonymous image board. What would someone get out of doing something like that?
(you)

Also following that with a wall of text is pottery.

>>7614351
What the fuck did you do to hatsune miku? This is gore.

>>7617226
Peak reddit post

>>7617090
Genuinely well done. Thumbnail looks like a photo. But I agree with the other anons. Not enough contrast. You need to enhance the lights on the grass and the main deer's face. And the ones in the background are too light.

>>7617269
NTA
That's all may be, but at some point mentioning reddit is reddit.

And yes, that was cringe posting.

>>7617282
That would depend on how it's displayed. Lighting on a finished piece is like the strings on a guitar. It's the biggest factor affecting the experience that is most often ignored.

>>7617289
ok, so how would you light it to make it look as good as it can as it is?

>>7617453
That would depend on the effect I was going for.
Maybe a strong warm light to make the grass and eyes pop. I'd be careful with the angle to minimize the glare on the black. I may even go so far as to put a layer of dark blue over the black to enhance this or a matte varnish, but you said it's done and don't want to with on it anymore.
Frame it the darkest wood and display it in a hallway or somewhere where the eerie lighting will brush the subconscious mind.
Unless that's not what you were going for.

>>7617257
>Wall of text
The reasoning is what matters, the post is the thing. I could have replied with just "nah you're retarded and you will ngmi if you just try to blindly follow high skill retards" but that would have done nothing to get people to even consider breaking the orthodoxy in order to view things differently.

>>7617496
Still not reading it

>>7617090
we have to go back...

What kind of pen was used for such drawings? Im looking for something thats darker than pencil and more similar to painting for my sketchbook.
Would pen and ink be better or acrylics/gouache?

>>7617589
I can't tell, but this is the penfag if you want to know what's available from a drawing perspective.
https://youtube.com/@mkompan?si=oUeWh7v6ukoCX4L6

>>7617589
Pretty sure that's a dip pen and ink

>>7617589
Also, I'm having decent luck with pic related. It doesn't clog up as much as platinum carbon black.
If you don't want to get all in the weeds with the YouTube penfag I linked then just grab a fine or extra fine tip twsbi eco and fill it with pic related.
You can also get a water brush pen (Pentel is the one I've used, it's good) and try your hand at master Kim larping.
Keep in mind that this is waterproof ink and if you want to dilute it she do shading you'll want a regular ink, but most fountain pen inks are water soluble.
Do not use India on unless you want to go with a dip pen, but those are a pain in the ass and I don't recommend them for anything but mangaka larping.

>>7617597
maybe, but there's also probably a brush pen with diluted ink. Maybe it's black and brown India in with a dip pen and a grey brush pen over it.

>>7617603
Keep in mind that over the years the black ink faded into a brownish color. It's dip pen and then a wash over it with a brush

>>7617606
I have no way to know how old it is. It looks like the shadows were done in black. I've also had inks that look black when layered.
"Let it age until it's partially brown" isn't going to help this guy with his sketchbook.
>>7617589
I personally wouldn't use gouache in a sketchbook because you have to seal it or it's infinitely reactivatable with water. As for acrylic, you will absolutely get better blacks that way, but you will beat the shit out of the paper. It is doable.
This mad lad used oils in his sketchbook.
https://youtu.be/Riz4sdc-D1k?si=u1UteqJ02QrKzgDD

>>7617589
a piston pen can also just suck up part water part ink if you don't want to go the dip route.

Apparently it's 450 years old and the seller thinks it's brown ink. That doesn't mean they're right, but it's almost certainly a dip pen. Might be a literal feather. They didn't have fountain pens back then, right?

>>7617636
>The earliest known split-nib metal dip pen is a surviving copper-alloy pen found in Roman Britain (AD 43 to 410)
>Several other surviving all-metal and removable-nib pens from the Middle Ages and Renaissance have been found, suggesting they were used alongside quill pens.
>The steel pen is first attested in Daniel Defoe's book A Tour Through the Whole Island of Great Britain – 1724–26.

>>7617638
>>7617636
>The fountain pen was available in Europe in the 17th century and is shown by contemporary references.

Well the short, unconcerned lines suggest a dip pen and the variable widths would suggest a split nib. So>>7617597 was probably right all along. But it's fun to over analyze sometimes.

I 'ate acrylic paint
I love oil paint
simple as

I'm starting to feel it, frens

>>7617636
his drawings are usually describes as having ued both black and brown ink so idk.
But many of them are also 'over black chalk'?

>>7617802
I'm in the sauce rn and it's extremely slow progress but it's so much fun!

>>7618841
the vagina's coming along nicely

>>7618864
Thanks! I'm recreating my old watercolor paintings as practice because that's one step to getting closer to the Beksinski-esque art I want to make.

Hi, lads. I haven't been here for a while. Wow.

(YOU STILL CAN ATTACH ONLY ONE FUCKING FILE TO THE POST????????????????? SIRIOUSLY??????????????)

Start with this one, colored pencils.

>>7619011
Oil pastels

Continuing, also oil pastels.

>>7619011
Are the eyes an intentional homage to cubism?
>>7619015
We all float up here!

>>7619011
>>7619015
>>7619119
I'd buy an artbook of yours if you ever print one

>>7619121
Nah, in the first art I was inspired by a bug in games, when you can fly into a character with a noclip and sort of see them from the inside.
>>7619242
Thanks, anon. I'll think bout it.

That one I drew for the Tarot challenge, I got 8 swords. Colored pencils and a bit of oil pastels in the light area.

>>7619306
Let's move on to oil paintings.

>>7619306
Do you have some WIPs you could share? I tried oil pastels myself and could never really get them to do what I wanted

>>7619311
I tried to paint glass idols from imagination, this one took many preliminary sketches and examining glass from life. I still didn't quite get where I wanted, but it's best I could do for now.

Gimme your insta so I can follow

>>7619312
Sorry, bud, I don't have photos of WIPs for oil pastel drawings. I only make WIPs for long made artworks, usually oil paintings.


Personally, I usually have two difficulties with oil pastels:
1. It's hard to make small details.
2. There's often no necessary color.

As for the first - you can VERY carefully scrape off the top layer of paint. For example, you drawing green water lilies on blue water.
First you painted blue water, then, over it, the water lily. If the lily turned out to be some unintended shape, you can carefully correct it by scraping off the green layer of paint with a palette knife, revealing the blue.


As for the second problem, the chalk can be melted down into the desired colors. There are guides on YouTube, it's pretty simple. I melted down my set and I'm happy.

>>7619325
I go by noondreemer in all socials, and welcome, I guess.

Last one and my favourite one, for now. I love liminal spaces.

>>7619335
>>7619338
I realized I'm already following you. Modern algorithmic internet is a curse.
>>7619338
immaculate vibes

>>7619340
Lol

>>7619338
based liminal spaces fren

>>7619011
>(YOU STILL CAN ATTACH ONLY ONE FUCKING FILE TO THE POST????????????????? SIRIOUSLY??????????????)
It was not kctire and not on the kc

best material to use for drawing low quality image memes?

>>7619622
printer paper (stolen) and any pen you found lying out in the open

>>7619628
retarded post, if you're stealing you want the expensive stuff, printer paper is virtually free and the packaging is heavier so it's harder to run away

Did any of you ever amke money with your /trad/ art? Pls tell how and when and how much.

>>7620422
Yeah, I sold a ton of my pussy paintings back in the day.
>Pls tell how
"hey pls msg me if you want to buy anything"
>when
2017-2019, then my next arc began
>how much
50-120 euro bucks each (which is underselling but I was happy to make some money back so that I could buy more supplies)

>>7620422
Yeah. But the price range is wide and strange. There are works that I sold for $30-50, there are works for $200-250, and so far my record is $800. I live in a fairly poor country, for me this is good money. I usually focus on the size, how long it took, and how popular the painting is on social media. If several people want to buy it, then you can raise the price. If one refuses, you can offer it to another.

new thread when

>>7620430
>>7620486
I've been thinking that they're might be a resurgence of demand for human made macro art. I've thought about trying to sell shit but I'm not very good (not that this necessarily matters) and I don't have the sense to know what will sell.
>>7620759
Soon, brother.

>>7620983
why the fuck would anyone buy macro art, it's the most digital shit ever

Protip: Canvas board is not fit for layered oil painting

>>7609964
He's done some good art in the past.

>>7621260
why not? its the exact same thing as regular canvas only stretched on a wooden board instead of a wooden frame.
It should make no difference

>>7621344
Not oil on wood, canvas board as in the thin canvas material on plastic rigid planks you can get at Michaels.

WE'RE FALLING OFF THE BOARD'S EDGE

Baker, bake it!

Poop

last for: less talkie politics, more postie art