Substance is an afterthought to most consumers. Look at Gachiakuta. It is dogshit but is beloved because it has a unique artstyle.

>>7654875 (OP)
Emaciated bakugo

>>7654879
Born in the Philippines
Thrown down into india all cause of some shitty gloves

>>7654875 (OP)
pyw

I'm sorry, why is that a bad thing? If anything it's a hard flex on the artist's part

>>7654875 (OP)
That's still comics, your comics is carried either by Story or Art. Greatest comics have excellent stories and art.

Americans solved the burden of Juggling developing two skills by separating the Writing and Illustrating to different people. Japanese insist on the original tradition of single Authorship.

this board proves gatekeeping is necessary, i used to be a laissez faire guy but not anymore

>>7654875 (OP)
You've never actually tried to make a comic before, have you?
Every single one of these manga people consider bad or mediocre still heads and shoulders, lightyears ahead what is the "average" quality of comics/manga. Because it's simply an insanely difficult medium to make something in. Even just doing it well enough to get an idea across is a serious struggle that takes so, so long to be able to do. To do that with style takes a level of skill that you can't comprehend unless you've seriously tried for a long ass time. And to convey a complex story with stylish artwork on a deadline is so difficult that you only really get a handful of people who manage to pull it off well. You only know about this work's existence BECAUSE it's exceptionally well made. And yet you disparage it because it's apparently not good enough for you? Just shut up already.

>>7654875 (OP)
Most of the topics in /ic would end with this answer:
learn draw and shut up.
how learn draw? just draw
what should I draw? Take an anatomy book like loomis and copy it 100%.

>>7654875 (OP)
honestly the writing is mediocre but I don't really care, just give me something dumb and tropey that I can have fun with.

>>7654875 (OP)
I will neger understand how people call Gachiakuta's story bad yet jerk off over Kagurabachi and Dandadan when they're around the same quality desu

>>7654875 (OP)
A better example would be Sakamoto Days.
It's Shounen Jump third or second best selling on-going manga but the plot and characters are barebones.

>>7654875 (OP)
>why do people care about how a visual media looks!?

>>7654951
>Every single one of these manga people consider bad or mediocre still heads and shoulders, lightyears ahead what is the "average" quality of comics/manga
So why are they considered bad or mediocre?
Hell, being mediocre may as well be worse than being bad.

>>7655100
>So why are they considered bad or mediocre?
Quite simply: a lack of perspective. If you only see the best, you might consider the works that aren't the best of the best to be average in comparison. What I'm saying is that even if those works are not the best of the best, they are still works that stand out from the sea of works that most people who make these sorts of comments are not taking into consideration.
Or to put it succinctly, people's standards are ridiculously high for comics.

With Shounen your main audience is teenagers who need to be wowed by nothing but visuals.
It is a form of mediocrity.

>>7654875 (OP)
Only this place would get rustled and crab over something that's aimed towards children and teens

>>7654875 (OP)
>said by fag that loves harem cuck shit

>>7654875 (OP)
Strictly visually speaking, I believe that everything other than the art style is more important. Imagine if your art style looks unique and refined, yet the paneling, lettering, and overall visual flow are abysmal—nobody would want to read that; instead, they'd just stare at the individual drawings. It's not the art style alone that creates this flow and readability, but the layout of the panels, the composition within the panels, not to mention the entire page itself. If you're striving to become a comic artist it should be your number one priority to make your work as pleasant to read as possible. Detail and style are great, but readability and enjoyment trump it all.

>>7655433
Posting some more examples.

>>7655438

>>7655439

>>7655440

>>7655441

>>7655443

>>7654875 (OP)
You can also have no style at all if you can back it with strong stroytelling. eg. Attack on Titan or Chainsaw Man.

>>7654875 (OP)
You can also have no strong style at all if you can back it with strong stroytelling. eg. Attack on Titan or Chainsaw Man.

>>7654875 (OP)
So was Jujutsu Kaisen. That was carried by subtance-less story telling and a crazy amount of style- and that's okay everything doesn't have to be deep it can just be a fun time. Look at Solo Leveling just a shitty power fantasy, but who really cares people will consume it anyways.
>>7655433
Idk why but humans will forgive a lot for the sake of comedy seeing how opm is one with good story telling inter woven it gets away with it. If it were strictly a serious comic the style would be critiqued.

>>7654875 (OP)
meandering and tropey? yes, but the idea that its dogshit when sakamoto days and a gazillion other series that dont even bother with having a message or developing their world can top the charts is simply false, the story is mediocre at its worst with small pockets of being genuinely interesting (if somewhat by the numbers), the information broker, follo's arc and the entire tamsy subplot starting with the end of the amo arc give more than enough fuel for the comic to keep going
also style IS substance, visual choices inform the tone of the series which in turn informs the characters and how they are presented to the audience, a character presented in an appealing way with a unique design is gonna be better than the same character shown more plainly

i dunno man i feel like the worst thing you can say about gachiakuta's writing is that it's corny but the art is way too good
you'll have a very hard time finding any media that's perfect in every single category, inb4 some faggot suggests watchmen
>>7655085
as someone who reads all three i can assure you that dandadan is below the other two, it's been a long time since i've read a manga that's clearly dragging its feet because they have no idea what to do compared to when i can clearly see if the author has some stupid idea even if its bad. Kagurabachi's lore autism is amusing at least and they try to make good pages, it's like a pretentious 17 year old was given a budget but somewhere along the way they developed a modicum of good taste

I've just started reading it thanks to your thread OP
the target audience is obviously teenagers, but the art and pacing makes for a nice read, even if the plot is something you've read a billion times before

>>7654875 (OP)
Is this style even unique, feels like a lot the shonens have a similar funky style with the same fast story beats to make as deep of a run as possible and not get immediately dropped by the magazine. Really boring to read when you see the pattern

>>7656261
The story is "I want to mamoritai someone taisetsu to me and some adult is telling me that I shouldn't run away and then as I get my ass beat my what appears to be another adult who can't pick on someone his own size I get a unleash my hidden power deep within and kick his ass last minute" with a different coat of paint.

>>7656261
The story is "I want to mamoritai someone taisetsu to me and some adult is telling me that I shouldn't run away and then as I get my ass beat by what appears to be another adult who can't pick on someone his own size, I get a unleash my hidden power deep within me and kick his ass last minute" with a different coat of paint. Along the way I get a not love interest to keep the viewers interest and some familiar foes.

>>7655150
>people's standards are ridiculously high for comics.
This
Most weebs don't get this because they never tried to read an average isekai manga.
I like to read random trash on Mangadex and I read garbage that might as well be AI generated, their plot and art are utter garbage.
The art is high /beg/ at best, the character design is generic JRPG from the 90s tier, the characters are a simple archetype like "Healer Girl with white clothes" or "wind mage with brown clothes" the pace is all over the place, in one chapter they're fighting a hardcore boss and 2 chapters later they're losing to random thugs on a forest, the MC have all the powers and cheats yet lose to a low level mercenary because the manga needs drama, shit is ass.

>>7656261
>Feels like a lot the shonens have a similar funky style
Which ones? If anything 2010s+ era shounenslop takes itself much more seriously and has way more looser character designs alongside a more grounded setting (thinking strictly about JJK, CSM, Sakamoto Days, etc.)

>>7654927
Salty OP remains unable to answer this absolutely valid and based question. Next he will miss the point and say something retarded and gay like haibane renmei was bad or something.

>>7654875 (OP)
>It is dogshit but is beloved because it has a unique artstyle.
That's because comics are a visual medium, if you just want to consume storytelling and you don't care for the art then just read a novel.
Art > Story by the way, that's why Slop Leveling and Demon Slayer are the most popular anime and manga now instead of something actually good.

>>7656339
OP abandoned the thread the second he made it. It's bait. If he comes back it'll just be to post even more bait.

i swear visual artists foster the most toxic and shallow communities of all the artforms

>>7656360
There's a lot of manga with great art that gets ignored and much less popular than isekaislop

>>7654875 (OP)
chainsaw man’s art is not great but people like it for the plot and characters

>>7657114
roflmao, the only thing people like about chainsaw man is character designs, guy couldn't write a good plot to save his life

>>7654875 (OP)
You do know who discovered that first?

Rob Liefeld. His art was awful in structure, but on the surface he had a unique edgy style.

So if you're gonna do that, you're just being a Liefeld.

>>7654875 (OP)
Is it actually bad or is this just a meme? I haven't got around to reading it yet.

>>7660019
>Is it actually bad or is this just a meme?
some of the lore is interesting, it also knows how to present all the big moments in a fittingly impressive format, tho the characters are somewhat flat and dont get nearly enough development and the two implied main antagonists dont get nearly enough screentime
overall its like a 6-7/10 but its a quick read due to being so visual focused and you'll come out of it with at least 1 character you really like