Cope or real? - /ic/ (#7661553)

Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:22:55 AM No.7661553
33dgs
33dgs
md5: e2978c3d6293a668608ded082579df44๐Ÿ”
is there any saving left for humans
Replies: >>7661564 >>7661569 >>7661571 >>7661581 >>7661591 >>7661794 >>7661814 >>7661845 >>7662522 >>7663171 >>7663183 >>7663389 >>7663397 >>7663443 >>7663538 >>7663582 >>7663867
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:32:07 AM No.7661564
>>7661553 (OP)
Like I said years ago, AI can only make slop. The slop machine will flood the market. Novelty and shiny rendering is enough to trick the average consumer. As far ass mass market media, it's all slop from here on. (as if it wasn't already). Artists should be going after niche markets.
Replies: >>7661570 >>7661601 >>7663898
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:37:32 AM No.7661569
>>7661553 (OP)
No and war is on the horizon. It's going to be great. New species incoming!
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:38:14 AM No.7661570
>>7661564
What's to stop sloppers from doing the same?
Replies: >>7661573
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:39:40 AM No.7661571
>>7661553 (OP)
>"Whatever looks like it will sell"
This hypocrite faggot, denies the fact that the western world has been on "whatever looks like it will sell" mode during the last 30 FUCKING YEARS.
Such an unstoppable inertia in the market doesn't start in "2 weeks" of AI trend, like if "spiderman 10 the remake" just doesn't exist. the metastasis of America's dead capitalism has been excreting this radioactive waste for decades killing the whole global market, and now this asshole wants to take it on the shit-eaters.
Watch again Robocop (1987), and take a look at the evil faggot at the top of the tower making shit happen. Maybe that's the only way retards can understand how the big man shits on their head all day every day, with a cigar in his hand and a whore on his lap.
Replies: >>7661830
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:40:38 AM No.7661573
>>7661570
Nothing, they'll flood any market they can.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:48:27 AM No.7661581
1532462180667_weeeeee
1532462180667_weeeeee
md5: a05eadc403610e0d101ea2124f559696๐Ÿ”
>>7661553 (OP)
This is due to increased prosperity as a result of the advancement of technology deflating most productive and tech-based sectors of the economy.
Don't believe me? Look at newspaper ads from 30 years ago and you'll see that the prices of a lot of goods were roughly the same (sometimes the exact same) but as a proportion of household income, they were much higher.

There's a double tip in that most people can afford more luxuries now, and the cost of entry has gone down too. So this means that they have the disposible income to participate in media cultures and art that they never had before.

You know how indians, when they got internet en masse 10 years ago due to facebook giving away phones, were the most rancid types of people due to having 0 nettiquette? And now they've moved onto being shills and scammers? That's the exact same as the normie invasion into basically every larger niche hobby and art scene. The numbers of sales/views have all inflated massively too. For internet artists, getting 2000 followers used to be a big deal. Now that's rookie numbers, because of how many damn people are online.

If you want good shit it still exists. You have to go where normies won't. Places that aren't fashionable, that are weird, that go against the grain and which you don't get social points for outside of it being mysterious and obscure/difficult. Like how people used to view those who said they watched Criterion films.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 5:54:42 AM No.7661591
>>7661553 (OP)
>japan's manga industry is in a state of saturation.
>from publishers I get the impression that their focus is no longer on creating "high-quality and marketable works," but simply on "whatever looks like it will sell"
Does this guy not know the history of his own industry? Its first boom was Tezuka and Tezuka look-alikes. It STARTED with "whatever looks like it will sell". If that ever changed, it was only temporarily.
Besides that, the industry is lead around by what sells. The publishers don't get to choose what the readers will buy. If they could, then they simply would. If he's going to blame the audience for getting dumber, why bring publishers into it like they have any control over it? Even if these publishers decided to publish only what is good and marketable, how can you fault them if those works don't sell?
Replies: >>7661593
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:00:50 AM No.7661593
>>7661591
Publishers are basically stuck in some ways because the larger a company gets the less flexible it becomes. At the extreme (state-run production/services) you hit the economic calculation problem, but this is a property of all business.

There's an inertia that occurs because the rent on their facilities is some amount, and they have upgraded facilities over time. Leaving much of a warehouse or office empty is retarded. Likewise they have deals with printers on a certain volume that they purchase, how many pages are in each thing, etc.
So if they were to try to retarget their efforts towards more dedicated, but niche markets for longer-term sustainability and better reputations from higher quality stories, they would also have to do a lot of costly work downsizing much of their operations.
Replies: >>7661597
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:02:47 AM No.7661597
>>7661593
The sad reality of realizing that would never happen because there's too much risk to pivot
Replies: >>7661602
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:07:01 AM No.7661601
>>7661564
I agree with you, but it looks like he's saying the opposite.
He's saying whenever an artists makes truly great and complex work, it's assumed to be AI and thus artists stay clear of creating greater works.
However, this also assumes that AI must be creating equivalent work, no? Else, why would anyone get such work confused with AI?

I personally disagree with, because I feel I still see great work, both drawings and comics, so I think he's just being overly pessimistic.
Replies: >>7661605 >>7661611
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:09:22 AM No.7661602
>>7661597
Correct. On the flip side, it's left a lot of room for independents and smaller publishers to pick up the slack.

Many "nerd/enthusiast culture" things felt more unified in the past, but it was also extremely scattered and in some cases just totally absent. You might have had several thousand people into something but because they were all across the country or globe it felt like it was a common thread of subculture, at least online or in magazines dedicated to it. Now the big players that survived have millions of fans. There's almost certainly more room for any little thing to take off now.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:11:02 AM No.7661605
>>7661601
>He's saying whenever an artists makes truly great and complex work, it's assumed to be AI and thus artists stay clear of creating greater works.
That's not what he is saying. He's saying that if it's something too complex people get angry, and if it's not something they get angry over then they struggle to tell non-AI and AI apart.

The overall thrust of his ramble is basically bitching about how everything mainstream has turned to slop.
Replies: >>7661633
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:15:40 AM No.7661611
>>7661601
I'd say the general audience never had the ability to distinguish them in the first place.

AI kind of works by averaging everything, that's part of why it all ends up looking the same. In general anime and mange follows the same trends so it ends up looking the same too. Tight deadlines for manga and anime means corners are cut to save time. For it to be popular, it has to be easy for the audience to understand. This results in lots of lower quality works. Since that's what the AI is trained on, it creates similar but even lower quality stuff. It's AI slop trained on slop.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:44:36 AM No.7661633
>>7661605
It's not just that mainstream has turned to slop. Audiences increasingly see things in black and white. Even among populations that would have considered themselves 'intellectual' a decade ago, no longer have intellectual tastes when it comes to art.

People not being able to tell whether work is AI or not really has nothing to do with AI. AI really isn't any harder to identify than it ever has been, but the ability to view the world with enough nuance and detail to be able to tell the difference is just gone. It's absolutely insane to see, in real time, people straight up just lose the ability to tell whether things are AI or not, and that has some worrying implications in itself.

But it's not because of AI that you can't make complex works. But because audiences just won't get it. You can't use subtext, people won't get it. Symbolism doesn't work. Metaphor does not work. You have to explicitly spell out to the audience every single thing you are trying to say or they will just not understand it.
Replies: >>7661644 >>7661661
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:48:15 AM No.7661638
things were already on the downturn years before AI got big, so AI never really bothered me.
I feel like what's really happened is from the 80's to about 2010ish there was basically a sort of renaissance period when it came to media creation where the tech was getting better all the time and creators were experimenting all the time with new ideas, but now that period has ended and publishers and other equivalent roles that would finance and have the final say in artistic decisions have pretty much figured out the "meta" in video game terms of how to maximize profits, and unfortunately for cosumers and artists that usually means spending LESS money on the actual work put into the project and MORE on advertising and building hype. Project launches, project sells super well because of hype, regular cosumers like it for a couple months and then it's forgotten when the next flavor of the month comes out, never reaching true "modern classic" status, but the publisher made millions off the fear of missing out during the intial release so who cares. Also now that the project is done the studio that did the real work is being shut down by the studio even if it was successful because publishers are eager to show investors that they've cut spending while still making profit at the same time, which is the kind of behavior that's just going to turn the people getting cut cynical and bitter, therefore put in less effort on their end too in the future.

There's pretty much no going back. The future is indie, but I don't know if indie will ever reach the peaks we were reaching in the 2000's. That would require a lot more competent indie creators but there's already very few of those and there might be even less in the future if the new generations actually become receptive to AI slop and stop seeing the point
Replies: >>7661641 >>7661661
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:51:26 AM No.7661641
>>7661638
Are we blaming the companies and profit motives here. I feel like there has to be some responsibility on the audience no?
Replies: >>7661656 >>7661659 >>7661661
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 6:52:47 AM No.7661644
>>7661633
To be fair, gen AI is getting closer and closer to the real thing so i give a bit of leeway to the normies because sometimes it is pretty difficult having to discern it
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 7:07:04 AM No.7661656
new_is_bad
new_is_bad
md5: 4c772c09cd833c5a5f02f2d259d1a9b9๐Ÿ”
>>7661641
NTA, but I think it's a bit of a symbiotic relationship, and it's important to blame both. In the late 2010s we really saw the commercialization of a lot of subcultures in a way that really hadn't happened before. Not just in broad strokes, like Hot Topic or whatever. The 'cult-hit' ceased to be a thing altogether, because anything that got even vaguely popular would be repackaged as a mass market product and resold to normies looking to be hip and cool. And they ate that shit up, destroying any and all cultural identity for pure aesthetic value. And in the end the result is that aesthetic value, whether the aesthetic of the work or the aesthetic of consuming, is really all anyone pays attention to anymore.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 7:09:13 AM No.7661659
1732953153813582m
1732953153813582m
md5: fc1be730efd4d9bfe848808fcfaeda38๐Ÿ”
>>7661641
>Are we blaming the companies and profit motives here.
Yes I think greed is a sin and I don't think chasing absolute maximum profits no matter what you sacrifice in the end is a natural or justified thing to do.
>I feel like there has to be some responsibility on the audience no?
There's not really anything to say about audiences casually consuming slop that isn't just the equivalent yelling at clouds.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 7:12:28 AM No.7661661
>>7661633
>Even among populations that would have considered themselves 'intellectual' a decade ago, no longer have intellectual tastes when it comes to art.
What you're seeing is a combo of lax screening/gatekeeping - meaning that the audiences you are looking at are not actually the same, they just occupy the same positions - and the spread in social constructionism. Meaning the belief that every conversation is a struggle for control over the narrative (which narrative? reality), and this devolves into tribalistic perspectives. If you view something any way other than how you're "supposed to" it means you get looked at with suspicion, lose status, or get ostracized.

But as I said, just leave the mainstream and you can find better more-authentic people. You have to actually leave it so you're far out, not just adjacent to it. The winning move is to not play the stupid games. Now that you're aware of it you can avoid people taking advantage of you via pressuring you to conform.

>>7661638
The transition to digital has meant that a lot of shit has too many cooks in the kitchen. With cinema you have to people who demand changes constantly that would have been unfeasible if it were on film instead of a computer. This wastes so much time and money that any VFX guy readily will bitch about it if you give him the opportunity to.
On the financial end, there's also this avoidance of risk that just permeates everything. Everyone wants safe money. Maybe this was due to the 2008 crash, I don't know. People who went the opposite direction got rich off of crypto.

>>7661641
I blame a general cultural zeitgeist.
My stance is tech-accelerationism is the way forwards so that culture can fragment further, and we get much more agile microcultures that can adapt to circumstance and figure out best practices instead of this big slow slug of a false idea of a shared commonality. Like, "don't be a dick" rules relied on the fact that most people online were from urban hubs early on.
Replies: >>7661856
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 11:36:46 AM No.7661794
>>7661553 (OP)
tldr;
>zoomers think everything is cringe and they just want to eat slop that's why everyone is indirectly forced to do slop because something genuine will just be called cringe and is way too much of a risk. Meanwhile the cattle will blame creators and companies for trying to stay afloat financially while they demand nothing but slop and schizophrenically complain that everything that is not slop is cringe.
Replies: >>7661802 >>7662395
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 11:51:39 AM No.7661802
>>7661794
based and trve
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:05:10 PM No.7661814
>>7661553 (OP)
I have mixed feelings. I believe that the majority of entertainment, specifically art as it relates to this board, is forgettable, filled with pig slop, and intellectually equivalent to keys dangling. But this is just a numbers game; itโ€™s very rare to be an exceptional artist and writer. The advancement of technology and education (including AI) has made creation vastly assessable to the average person. The average person canโ€™t produce Berserk. The average person can produce your copy-paste 100th hundred isekai with bouncing inflatable tits and somewhat-okay drawings. There are many skilled artists but it takes decades to produce beautiful illustrated manga. Cum material and lazy power fantasies will sell just as well, so why shouldnโ€™t companies prioritize the latter?
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:16:33 PM No.7661818
If berserk came out today it would be considered cringe.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:44:18 PM No.7661830
>>7661571
>This hypocrite faggot, denies the fact that the western world
Are you pretending to be retarded?
>I hate strawberries
>oh wow what a hypocrite! so you are saying you like blueberries??
Replies: >>7661831 >>7661833
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:45:42 PM No.7661831
>>7661830
whoa hey is that a heckin food analogy? those are cringe
also you are mad because i say so and i won the argument
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 12:46:41 PM No.7661833
>>7661830
If you read his full tweet, he's asking manga authors and publishers to market toward the west because he think the Japanese public are a lost cause.
Replies: >>7661837
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 1:02:26 PM No.7661837
>>7661833
He is a jap so naturally he has no idea what's going on in the west. He doesn't deny anything like that schizo insinuated, he is just clueless.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 1:19:28 PM No.7661845
>>7661553 (OP)
>plebs act like plebs
nothing new, though because of social media this becomes more visible/only the pleb appeasers gain big followings. Do you really expect the average person who spends his life just going with the flow to understand anything?
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 1:46:41 PM No.7661856
>>7661661
aaron long
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 1:57:28 PM No.7661863
Could it be perhaps catering to non otaku the last few years caused this decline? Just a thought, nakamura kun.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 2:06:58 PM No.7661873
worrying that my work was slop stopped me from drawing more. I should have just drawn what I feel like and not thought about others
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 9:26:49 PM No.7662395
>>7661794
>Muh zoomers
Reminder that anyone that defaults to -oomers has nothing relevant to say.
Anons, please, take a look at the bestselling novels from a century ago or 50 years ago.
You'll find many odd names you've probably never heard of. And a lot of them aren't precisely ambitious stories. (i.e. Penny dreadfuls).

Why you don't see more modern masterworks? Because they are rare, have always been rare and will always be rare! (talent is real)
Replies: >>7662416
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 9:37:00 PM No.7662416
>>7662395
No one is disputes that there hasn't always been crap. There's just more crap than there ever has been. Other anon was right in that from about the 80s (imo 90s) to early-2010s, there was an uncharacteristically low amount of crap. Good media was en vogue. Now it's not. This is especially true with anime/manga. Japan's economy slowed massively during the 2000s, and since 2010 has been in retrograde. Safe bets are all that's left on the table.
Anonymous
7/24/2025, 10:33:05 PM No.7662522
pajeet2
pajeet2
md5: 34a6b3781f369f4d41d0daaca74823d8๐Ÿ”
>>7661553 (OP)
do you even have to ask? no shit everyone is getting dumber in the anglosphere (which includes japan). its civilizational collapse, and he's just noticing a crumb of it.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 6:33:33 AM No.7663171
Kodansha_Afternoon_Magazine_202001
Kodansha_Afternoon_Magazine_202001
md5: a07ebfffc756e1b6b827898de5f92952๐Ÿ”
>>7661553 (OP)
It'd be nice if artists were free to compete for prestige and enter competitions without having to worry about money and sales all the time... Where's the artistic merit in a random isekai litRPG slideshow of Kirito3490 being the strongest and coolest man on earth ever with also a million girlfriends that he can't bang because they're also the readers waifus and not all of them wanna be cucked? And if that intellectual fast food wasn't enough, there's AI entering the roster. If slop wasn't doing so well, I wouldn't be worried but it's doing pretty well for itself... I sometimes feel like giving up on art. Gonna get minimum wage at the mall, find a tiny place to live in, knock myself out with videya and eat my microplastics before my nightly 2nd videya session, brain all fried, no need to think critically about anything like a good little wage slave. But I have too many feels to be an actual robot. I'm not lonely, but there's that itch that only art can scratch. There's no way I'll stop drawing, even if AI does it all better than me...
Cool stuff is still being made. I've noticed more AI drowning out cool stuff, so many manga plots just feel like a remix of something else and webtoons are such slop I can barely tell them apart, but some are just genuinely so good...
>shallow content spreads far and wide wihle superior works are buried and forgotten
I wonder what kind of manga recommendations he'd give. I think he's exaggerating a bit, because there's always been a divide between what's generally popular and what's considered intellectually challenging. I've read ranma, dragon ball, doraemon... I wouldn't say that it's any more challenging than the popular shounen of today. Less toilet humor maybe, but that's a good thing. Well, it's shounen, not seinen but I like current seinen too.
I don't think the big 3 publishers are doing so badly, all things considered. Or maybe I just haven't personally seen the impact of AI on the japanese manga industry yet..
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 6:48:15 AM No.7663183
>>7661553 (OP)
>is there any saving left for humans
the asteroid missed us by 65 million years
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 2:18:15 PM No.7663389
1730923082338006
1730923082338006
md5: 5d141780ba88202dbd6264ffcfc969c7๐Ÿ”
>>7661553 (OP)
i'M A SLOP ARTIST. If something will take me more than 2 hours to draw, I just don't draw it. I only have like 4 or 5 hours in me per day to draw, I can't spend all my mana on one fucking drawing that has a decent chance of flopping. It just doesn't make sense.

Fun? I stopped having fun long ago. If I were to draw things that I find fun, I'd lose everything. I am a fake /int/ that learned how to polish my turds well enough to trick people, I can't just draw what I feel, everything I do is fake and carefully orchestrated. I'm like an alien pretending to be a human. There, you fucking happy?
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 2:31:22 PM No.7663397
>>7661553 (OP)
He sounds like he is full of his own shit. "Oh I am so smart. I enjoy smart works. Everybody else is stupid because they enjoy stupid works. Oh, the pain of being too intelligent.". Anybody complaining like this should at least post what they consider to be intelligent work so they can expose themselves as basic midwits. It's 4chan style juvenile elitism. Things has always been shit with a few good works coming up once in a while. There is no decline. You just have poor memory and grown bitter.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 3:17:29 PM No.7663443
>>7661553 (OP)
Sorry but nobody cares what carpenter wants and how great is his works if customer wants him to make shit he will be making shit. Same for art nobody cares if you are so good that people can't tell if it's real or not what matters is what retards who pay you want if you are doing it for money that is.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 3:55:02 PM No.7663517
slopkuns triggered massively
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 3:57:55 PM No.7663523
Why would you want your work to appeal to the mainstream. That's not even where the money is.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 4:06:43 PM No.7663538
>>7661553 (OP)
>literally 2deep4u
Dude needs to quit huffing his own farts.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 4:27:17 PM No.7663582
>>7661553 (OP)
I blame the zoomers and their parents.
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 7:07:08 PM No.7663867
>>7661553 (OP)
What would be some examples of these "genuinely superior works"
Anonymous
7/25/2025, 7:16:57 PM No.7663898
>>7661564
>niche markets.
Such as?