Thread 212318358

DJT is a language learning thread for those studying the Japanese language.
Japanese speakers learning English are welcome, too.

Read the guide linked below before asking how to learn Japanese:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220326112058/https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html
Grammar references: https://djtguide.github.io/grammar/grammarmain.html

Archive of older threads: https://desuarchive.org/int/search/subject/Daily%20Japanese%20Thread/

Translation requests, insults, politics, reddit posts, lust, learning method / eceleb discussions: >>>/jp/djt

Previous Thread: >>212303305

うーん

こ

こんにちは、今日は雨です。私の庭はいいそうみえます。

>>212322380
>いいそう
良さそう

庭が何か
言いたがってる

ねても見ゆ ねでも見えけり おほかたは
空蝉の世ぞ 夢には有りける

「宙」が・・・落ちてくるっ・・・!

The way that 「見える」 used to attach to the 終止形 in pre-classical japanese like an auxiliary or some kind of tag verb is an interesting topic

>海女嬬 玉求良之 奥浪
>恐海尓 船出為利所見
あま乙女 玉求むらし 奥(おき)つ浪
恐(かしこ)き海に 船出せり見ゆ

>于遇比須能 於登企久奈倍尓 烏梅能波奈
>和企弊能曽能尓 佐伎弖知流美由
鴬の 音聞くなへに 梅の花
わぎへの園に 咲きて散る見ゆ

>>212318358 (OP)
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm44617412

>>212327743
>最終の文

I can't stop refreshing and scrolling
I'm done for, I'm microwaved

>>212324142
So, do you know why it was dropped?

>>212326088
cute

>>212329898
It was never really completely dropped, it was just a way of phrasing that become less and less common over time.

It appears over and over again in the 万葉集, but in later poem anthologies it might appear in only one poem, and often times they're older poems that were also included in the 万葉集. For example, in the 古今集, you have:
>さ夜なかと 夜はふけぬらし かりがねの
>きこゆるそらに 月わたる見ゆ
which is also 1701 in the 万葉集:
>佐宵中等 夜者深去良斯 鴈音
>所聞空 月渡見

and in the 拾遺集 you have:
>そらの海に 雲の浪たち 月の舟
>星の林に こぎかくる見ゆ
which is 万葉集 1068:
>天海丹 雲之波立 月船
>星之林丹 榜隠所見

this 見ゆ always appears at the end of a sentence and has a meaning like "..., I see" or "... is visible," rather than the meaning "has the appearance of..." or "seems like..." that you get from と見ゆ or と見る, which is much more common, like:
>たつたひめ かざしの玉の ををよわみ
>みだれにけりと みゆるしら露
in this case, the dew is not actually a set of jewels on a string that breaks, the author is just saying it "appears" that way, whereas in the two examples above the author is directly stating that he "sees the moon crossing the sky" or "sees the moon making its way (like a boat through the sky) into the stars where it hides (as if they were trees)."

older poems with this structure continue to appear into the 1300s, and very rarely they're ones that don't also appear in the 万葉集, but usually they're clearly influenced by phrasing from the 万葉集, like from the 新後撰集:
>山人の 炭焼くならし 雪ふかき
>とほつ小野辺に 煙立つ見ゆ
the same "けぶりたつみゆ" is found in 万葉集 1879, but in a different poem:
>春日野尓 煙立所見 女嬬等四
>春野之菟芽子 採而煮良思文
the とほつ for とほし, 遠い is also a clearly archaic phrasing that's rarer in later poems, suggesting that the author is invoking an older register or even that this is another pre-classical poem simply not included in the 万葉集

(random image to bypass character limit)

As a very similar auxiliary that continues to be productive in later periods, you have ~めり, which also attaches to the 終止形 just like this archaic use of ~見ゆ.
This めり is thought to probably derive from something like 目あり, so it's strange for it to follow the 終止形 instead of something like the 連用形, but it's just another way that it's similar to 見ゆ in that it's like one sentence tagged onto the end of another one.

>わがやどの 庭の秋はぎ ちりぬめり
>のちみむ人や くやしと思はむ

>浪の花 おきからさきて ちりくめり
>水の春とは 風やなるらむ

>梅の花 香にだに匂へ 春たちて
>降る淡雪に 色紛ふめり

Sometimes this めり has the more literal meaning "I see," and sometimes the "seems like" meaning, especially outside of poetry in prose, but the distinction is not always easily drawn

There's also the auxiliary ~なり (distinct from the copula なり) deriving from 音(ね)あり, which means "I hear" or "sounds like" rather than "I see," which attaches to the 終止形 in the same way

The auxiliary ~べし, as in べき or べく, also attaches to the 終止形, and it originally derives from the word うべし, うべ, むべ, which was an interjection meaning something like なるほど, いかにも
So all of these 終止形 auxiliaries, which are not many, may have the same origins as a kind of tag sentence from before regular grammatical rules for conjugating were fully developed
And this ~見ゆ is one that never became established as a full auxiliary, as it was replaced with other ways of saying the same thing

>>212329898
>>212331497

Apparently, languages tend to drift from being synthetic (sentences being made up of a few short words that get modified for specific meanings) to analytic (sentences add free-standing independent words for specific meanings).
Example, Latin used to be very synthetic (all these complex declinations), but modern romance languagese like spanish, italian and especially french are very analytic.
Even English went through this.
Old sentences like "unbeknownst to him" or "the aforementioned item" get replaced with more modern sounding "he did not know that..." and "the item that was mentioned before"

Japanese people talk too fast

I only know how to bother people

>>212333996
nope, you are fast! >:3

>>212334790
me too, me too :3

乙
>>212318358 (OP)
広えろ

南無阿弥陀仏

I have a full time job. Is it too late for me to get fluent at Japanese?

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm45144923
>>212340559
Depends on how fast you want to become fluent and how much suffering you're willing to take. When I first started learning I was waking up at 6 am everyday, getting on the bus by 6:30 and coming home by 6 pm at the earliest. Still managed to get to N1 in a year and a half, though I had to spend most of my free time on engaging with content in the language.
Do note that even a high score in N1 is officially just a C1, and personally when I took the test I felt like even someone with a high score would be perhaps around the upper levels of B2.
https://www.jlpt.jp/e/about/cefr_reference.html

>>212340888
It's fucking over. I'll never get a Japanese girlfriend

>>212340559
I love British-style Japanese though! :D

>>212341021
Well learning does get fun somewhere between N3 and N2...
And you could also do like me and completely ignore all proper study, only immersing in the language with a dictionary + using Anki. Even Anki is just a tool to help you learn better in exchange for suffering and therefore not absolutely necessary.

>you could also do like me
こんなん言えるのイケメンだけやん( ･ิω･ิ)

おっそうだな

>年齢確認のタッチパネル
へー

>>212343030
https://x.com/imascg_stage/status/1940289454801027512
かなりこれでおしまいって感あるんだね ( ;∀;)

>>212343430
Wtf…

>>212340888
I've picked it up again, I've been doing the 2k/6k Anki deck alongside Bunpro N5 (at a rate of 6 grammar items and 20 vocab items), I did the math and, if I keep that pace I should be done with the Bunpro N1 in about a year. Now, I've only been doing the Anki and Bunpro, other than that I watch some anime and notice a few words I've learnt but is there anything else I should be doing? I noticed Bunpro has graded readings but I doubt I can read them if I know less than a hundred words.

>>212341021
You are fluent in English (needless to say though), that alone can be attracting regardless of your Japanese fluency. English sounds cool.

コモ エスタ! >:3

私に危害を加えたいと、君はそう思ってるでしょう

>>212349284
I don't get it.

私を殺したいと、そう思ってるでしょう?

>>212349284
エストイ ビエン、イ ウステd?

Cut off my fingers

>>212351086
自殺なんか全然思ってませんよ!

>>212351098
カタカナになると完全にわかんにゃい(@_@;)

>>212351107
and fry them >:3

>>212341373
Being N3 is fun, but I wanna be fluent. I wasted so much time not putting enough hours in in university, and now I am being punished for it.

I just wanna understand my anime waifu

>>212351098
bien bien ;3

>>212351257
>カタカナになると完全にわかんにゃい(@_@;)
ケ!?
estoy bien ¿y usted?と言うともりだった-

>>212351624
謎を解いてしまったか

>>212318358 (OP)
what is the kanji that looks like a 日 but with the top two horizontal lines split?

臼 うす

>>212345053
Once you've gone over the N5 grammar hop into manga and lower level VNs with lazyjp tools like mokuro and textractor.
https://lazyguidejp.github.io/jp-lazy-guide/setup/
I think there might be some grammar dictionaries for yomitan you can use too.

Your comprehension wont be that great, but it's important practice anyways and you can still somewhat enjoy a story. It will get easier over time either way.
I read my first VN halfway into N4 grammar, it wasn't too bad.

曰 いう
𦥑 叉手

>>212352175
>>212352613
thank you, was hard to look for