I was talking to my dad recently about his time living in Japan during the 70s and 80s. He was telling me how the cities, especially the less developed outskirts, were absolutely disgusting. Trash filled the streets, the electrical grid was tiny, and many houses didn't have plumbing so virtually every river and stream was used as a public sewer and dumping ground for waste.
It's to fathom that just 50 years later Japan has completely reinvented itself. It's cities are known for being clean. Many of those same rivers that were once sewers have been cleaned up and are now protected waterways that supply cities with drinking water.

When I look at pictures like this from India it seems impossible that this landscape can ever be cleaned up and healed. The scale of India's slums and pollution are so much larger than Japan had to ever deal with. Not to mention the entire culture of hygiene in India would need to be changed in the process. Do you think it's possible? Half a century from now, could India have clean rivers and city streets just like Japan?

You know about 150 years ago, london's rivers were open sewers so horrible they used to drench house curtains with caustic soda to get rid of the smell.

They almost evacuated parliament to somewhere else too.

Now think about that at a 1000x scale.
It can be done, it will take time.

>>212684927
Yeah, but britain is full of brits. India is populated by indians.

Meh, Indians have the capacity. They need to balkanize and re-institute the strict caste system though.
They have no business being a single country.

>>212684830 (OP)
that's bangladesh (swamp indian)

>>212684927
Good point, but again it's an issue of scale. London's population in the mid 1800s was less than 3 million. The largest modern Indian city is over 10 times larger than that, and there are dozens of "small" Indian cities with 5-10 million people living in them. On paper it seems like an insurmountable task.
Obviously today we have the benefits of modern technology and science which can possible help alleviate the problem at a quicker pace, but we also have the misfortune of modern manufacturing and consumption habits which created the problem and cause it to spread faster than ever.

>>212685039
>we have the benefits of modern technology and science
indians dont have that

I'm not sure, india and south asia in general way too crowded
india has like 1/3 of brazil's landmass while having over 10x the population, shit's mental. Adding up every new world country would still be like 400 million short of india

>>212685039
Bangalore is pretty clean.

>>212685091
>indians don't have plastics, cars or computers
Weird take.

>>212685091
Neither did Japan in the 70s. That's the point, is Indian capable of developing the necessary technologies domestically to fix this issue?
You'd think with all the Indians coming to the west for education that some would eventually go back to India and take their knowledge with them. However it seems like they're all content with staying in the west while setting up companies in India that continue to worsen the pollution problem.

>>212684830 (OP)
the main difference is that not every single foreign account of ancient japan described it as an irredeemable shithole, and japanese culture never glorified shit and trash.

Our train looked like jeet. But we fixed it in early 2010. I think it's possible to recover from this. But sacrifice must be made, no more """"populist"""" policies. It must be harsh in such a way people will change their lifestyle which in turn it will change its culture.

>>212685091
>indians dont have that
India is like if you skipped a ton of steps on the Civilization tech tree.
You got people with cell phone plans before indoor plumbing

>>212685198
Not every single foreign account of ancient india described it as an irredeemable shithole either.

Marco Polo literally said they had an abundance of wealth and food. Especially in Malabar.
He also noted the high quality of metallurgical technique and quality - particularly with gold and steel

Let me guess, you think columbus was looking for a way to India so he could partake in their trash piles? Not for spices and money....

>>212685202
>no more """"populist"""" policies. It must be harsh in such a way people will change their lifestyle which in turn it will change its culture.
I feel like this is the only way forward. India needs a authoritarian government that takes cleaning up the country extremely seriously, but the only type of government that could meaningfully do anything at that scale is basically full blown fascism. You'd need a government that's built on the same blood and soil tenants of Nazi Germany to get Indians to start taking pride in their country.
Unironically the country could benefit from creating something similar to the Reich Labor Service for cleaning up the country. The government pays millions of Indians to pick up trash, sweep the streets, and enforce hygiene codes. You'd simultaneously be solving the pollution issue and fighting poverty by providing millions with a stable job.

>>212685338
Unchecked utopia turns an empire into shithole. See Behavioural sink.

>>212685338
>wealth and food
holy straw man. here's what marco polo said about the topic of this thread:
>They have no conscience about what they do. If a man lies with a woman and be found out, they do but laugh at it. In fact, they are the most lewd and wicked people that exist.
>The people are the most brutish and bloodthirsty in existence; for they kill and eat any stranger that falls into their hands.
>The people are black and ill-favored, and live in a most beastly manner.
>They are the dirtiest and most brutish people that exist in the world. They eat in the most disgusting fashion, without any table or cloth, and put the food directly into their mouths with their hands all covered in filth.
>They go about naked, only covering their loins with a cloth, and account it no shame to expose their persons. Even the women wear nothing but a single cloth, and go barefoot and bareheaded.
>They worship idols of the most abominable kind, covered in grease, filth, and blood. Their temples are full of uncleanness, and the priests themselves are the filthiest of all, daubed with ashes and cow dung.
>[The people] have no regard for cleanliness. Their houses are built with no regard to order, and they live among pigs and dogs and all manner of unclean beasts.
>The people are black, ill-favored, and of disgusting aspect. Their hair is coarse and oily, and they never wash it.

>>212685542
desu you could find examples of Marco Polo saying this about virtually every culture he encountered. Making the rest of the world appear as a savage wasteland that he bravely recorded was sort of his whole claim to fame.

>>212685611
refer to >>212685198
>every single foreign account

>>212684830 (OP)
>He was telling me how the cities, especially the less developed outskirts, were absolutely disgusting. Trash filled the streets, the electrical grid was tiny, and many houses didn't have plumbing so virtually every river and stream was used as a public sewer and dumping ground for waste.
Somehow I don’t believe this.

>>212684830 (OP)
Yes, but the country’s going to either have to get very rich or have a dictator-lite PM to institute the cleaning of the cities. India’s population is expected to decline by 2100 so that should make it easier.

>>212684963
firsties just need to keep bullying us thirdies until we get our shit together (or die trying) because this kind of shit is just sad

our officials don't care about criticisms from their own citizens but will do everything they can the moment shit gets viral on the internet

thirdies are basically like delinquent children who need to be shamed and disciplined (or beaten to death), our minds are not developed enough to be capable of individual conscience

>>212685542
>left out all the other parts
>posted the parts he said about literally everyone
kek You're seething.

>>212685682
You can research it yourself if you want. The reason modern Japanese streets look the way they do is because they were built up on the original thirdie street construction of metal shacks that you see in every third world country today.

No. India and Indians are uniquely shit, retarded and corrupt. Pic related is the type of development you can have with 100IQ average. India should've done something comparable but they just can't.

>>212685746
stop embarrassing yourself. you tried to strawman and got caught. instead of doubling down, you need to learn when to cut your losses and move on. maybe you'll have more luck next time, and the next anon will be gullible enough to fall for such cheap tricks.

>>212685774
What does that have to do with pollution? even in your picture I don’t see trash anywhere.

>>212685843
>Pic related is the type of development you can have with 100IQ average
That's the result of a government that has its fingers in every industry thought. India will never adopt the same socialist market economy as China because Indians have been brainwashed (arguably more than any other people on earth apart from Americans) to believe that if they work hard they'll get rich and escape poverty. They'd never elect someone like Jinping.

>>212685730
Can't wait to see those illegal houses to get demolished. I know your governor is doing it for click. That's better than nothing.

>>212684830 (OP)
the tokyo gentrification was also very controversial (like for example the bay area)
in the end it's arguably a necessary evil

>>212684830 (OP)
you may stop the trash, but you can't stop the saar

>>212685993
Gentrification is necessary step toward better living conditions. See central Jakarta and South Jakarta like 30 years ago vs now.

>>212685943
>India will become rich with more state control
You're a moron. China boomed after Deng liberalized it.

But that is besides the point. India will never become prosperous, you had 80 years of free reign and you just can't manage it. And it's all due to Indian's unique blend of being low IQ, scamming culture and corruption. In China they have the death penalty for corruption.

>>212686062
There must be at least some high IQ to fix their own shithole. Those with high IQ should then impose harsh policies in such a way idiots will stop breeding.

>>212686157
They're too small of a fraction and in a democracy.

>>212685636
post them

>>212686250
>Democracy
lol it doesn't work if your country skipped many steps on its culture/governing tech tree.

>>212685774
It's true in those times some houses still dind't have plumbing, but that's why public baths were common.

>>212686062
>you had 80 years of free reign and you just can't manage it.
india was very socialist until the 90s.

liberalization only began during that decade but even then it quickly encountered resistance from the political elite, so the liberalization remains unfinished until today.

but i still agree with you in essence. after all, if the people will it enough, then the elite would budge or risk losing their heads. most of us thirdies just don't know any better.

You'd have to change the very way people there think or it's a lost cause

>>212684830 (OP)
All countries look like that in poorer parts

>>212685774
modern japan is built from the ground up because you cunts firebombed their cities to the ground then dropped a couple nukes for good measure

>>212685943

India was socialist for 20 years, it fell to pieces because of how it somehow made them even poorer. The country is still officially a "sovereign socialist secular democratic republic".

>>212685133
...for India. Don't forget that part. Bangalore is pretty clean for India. So are other big cities like Trivandrum and Kochi and Chennai. Pretty clean, FOR INDIA. Which means they actually have trash disposal services unlike other places where even if you didn't want to just throw shit wherever you just have to because there is no infrastructure and no will to not chuck trash wherever. Bangalore at its cleanest is still at least as dirty as P*ris. You'll still be hard pressed to find a place where you can walk for an entire minute without stepping on waste.

>>212685198
>>212685542
There are several foreign accounts of the Vijayanagara empire that describe it as the most wealthy nation they'd ever seen, with beautiful cities where even the laborers wore gold jewelry. Not wearing clothes and eating other people is very un-Indian, they're more the type to not undress fully to have sex with their spouse (actually, for real) and to think eggs are not vegetarian. Marco Polo was telling a story, he could say anything really. Do you have another example of a foreign account of India being dirty? Because up to like 400 years ago they were pretty much in the same tier as Europe and the Middle East. A lower-class European in 1650 is comparable to a modern tribal jeet in terms of hygiene, if not worse.

>>212685164
He meant shouldn't have, and I agree with him.

>>212684830 (OP)
Those stories have to be your dad's lie. Japan's streets and sewer system thoroughly decent even 100 years ago.

>Sir. Rutherford Alcock, British diplomatist, "The Capital of the Tycoon (1863)"
>I have no hesitation in saying that the Japanese are, upon the whole, a cleanly people, wash often - live in houses open to the air, and look on wide and well-ventilated streets, where nothing offensive is allowed to rest. In all these things the Japanese have greatly the advantage over other Eastern races, and notably over the Chinese, whose streets are an abomination to any one possessing eyes to see, or a nose to smell with. (Vol. I, p. 189)

>>212684927
thames is still a cesspit?

Yes, there were slums that the poor and illegal entrant zainichis inhabited, but most of them disappeared or integrated into cities in 1980s as the nation developed enough to create good-paying jobs. Rivers became clean as water-purification technology developed.

>>212691191
it can be, but not to that extent.
Point is that when a nation is rapidly industrualising you get abject poverty and country folk who've only ever shit outside in your new cities.
Trash everywhere, pollution etc.
Its just a larger scale in india and now we have the internet so we can see the squalour.

30 years ago you'd know nothing of india beyond what the news media showed you. Now you can see tiktoks of people eating poo to get views.

>>212691256
Do slums like this still exist anywhere? I can't get a visa to live in Japan so I might need to find alternative means of entry.

>>212684830 (OP)
plastic-eating bacteria exist and are rapidly evolving, I'm sure within 100 years all of those bottles will at the very least be considerably decomposed

Don't let India's gross reality distract you from the fact that $$Epstein's$$ cell footage was altered

>>212684830 (OP)
Can you fucking retarded shithole recover from trump the pedophile?
Yeah I guess so

Shut up loser

>>212684830 (OP)
India mentioned!

I am a democrat, but I believe that India should be dictatorial like China.
Chinese peope often say that they cannot have democracy and that they should be beaten and controlled like animals.
In the same sense, I believe that Indians cannot have a functional democracy.

>>212691752
I believe every country is like that

>>212684927
Yeah, it's normal on some stage of development. In my city small rivers were used as for that for quite a long time too. Up to 1915 or something.

>>212691796
No, it's a little different. I think India could take a cue from Singapore. Singapore is not like South Korea or Japan. They are a dictatorship where the government controls everything. Singapore is the city-state with the lowest democracy index in Asia along with China and North Korea. But people don't call Singapore a shithole like China or North Korea. They are functional.

>>212691935
Indians are too chaotic to rule like that imo. we're not as easy as malay and chinese to bring into line.

I mean we're not niggers. Far from it - we generally want to achieve something and don't descend into packs of roaming canibals and warlords as soon as no ones looking. But we're also very individualistic, and have a high drive to outcompete those around them even if it means cheating to do so.
Very chaotic people.

keep in mind most of the population lived in small villages with no electricity or running water until very recently.
My father included - he left india in the 1970s.

>DO NOT REDEEM THE JET FUEL SIR

>>212692166
You don't know how good the Chinese are at cheating. And yet the British-educated Singaporean dictator educated the Chinese, Malays and Indians in Singapore under harsh laws. I think the Indian government could experiment with making certain regions Singapore-style on a pilot basis.

>>212692166
>But we're also very individualistic, and have a high drive to outcompete those around them even if it means cheating to do so.
lots of thirdoids are like this, my cunt included of course

>>212684830 (OP)
It's 50 years too late for that

>>212693613
I think victorian england was like that too.
It changes with prosperity.

>>212691935
>They are a dictatorship where the government controls everything.
That's basically both your country and Japan

Samsung is like 30% of your economy and Japan had been ruled by the same party for decades
>democracy index
They use meme parameters

>>212694511
>>212693613
Yep I believe everyone's going to cheat to have a better life if given the opportunity