>What language(s) are you learning?
>Share language learning experiences!
>Ask questions about your target language!
>Help people who want to learn a new language!
>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!
>Make frens!

Read the wiki:
https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki

Useful links:
>Free language‐learning book archive:
https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw
>Books on linguistics and language courses:
https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ
>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:
https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua
>Torrents with more resources than you’ll ever need for 30 plus languages:
https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH
>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec
>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by family
https://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/
>/lang/ inpoot torrents
https://rentry.org/inpoot
>Refold Anki decks
https://rentry.org/refold

Previous:
>>>>212757633

At what point should you cut your losses and accept a card is a leech? I set mine to never become leeches and brute forced my way through 1000 words but maybe this wasn't optimal

>>212838297
I didn't understand anything you said. Ankigooners kill yourselves

>>212838175
>AAVE
kek

>>212838175
it do be like that doe

The retards on this site and on /lang/ seem very smart compared to the even bigger retards on reddit

>>212838189 (OP)
The main reason young/nerdy/technically inclined white guys go to SEA is because they have remote incomes and your money is 2-3x as valuable there. You can go from struggling to survive in the US to having an upper-middle class standard of living in Thailand or Vietnam with the exact same amount of money

>>212838559
Fr nigga whitey is all rayciss mayn dey be ignorin dey culcha n shieeet

>>212838189 (OP)
black people complain about Spanish speakers all the time.

Resources for learning AAVE? Surely they have some published literature and grammar courses I can study and read?

>>212838920
Those honkies been oppressin' da communitah for millennia, nigga.

Thinking I might leave auto-translation on in the browser for a couple days and try it out.
Seems better and faster than when I tried it last year, but it still makes some mistakes and tries to translate things like /int/ to /internal/
I can at least waste time reading shitposts in my TL. Probably not great for beginner level though with the errors.

>>212839452
Baseado

>>212839180
No learning resources, but yeah you can find linguistic details of the grammar in books and papers. Stuff like the habitual be.
You can read the Wikipedia about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English

I can feel B2 coming

>>212839931
Calling "finna + X" irrealis seems like they are pushing it, to me.

>>212834729
If you open your deck and do a "custom study" you can review all the cards you forgot in the last [x] days. Not quite the same as reviewing them all, but yeah.

I'm doing everything but learning how to manually write Chinese characters
I'm not missing much right?

>>212840715
Absolute ton of extra effort for very little gain. Unless you find it fun ofc

>>212840099
Plus lots of White people make the same/similar grammatical errors and we don’t call it WAVE.

>>212841001
>Plus lots of White people
*zoomers

>>212840715
Supposedly a decent chunk of people find it easier to remember them if they get to write them a few times, and also you'll probably struggle with or be unable to write them outside of digital settings, though you can just fix that anytime by doing writing practice when necessary

>>212841048
I remember through repetition that's enough, that and learning why X character looks like that/where does it come from
>>212840812
>though you can just fix that anytime by doing writing practice when necessary
I wouldn't mind trying to get those books where you repeat/write characters, now those look fun

Reminder to all you europoors to please start making content so maybe your language is a little more worth learning. English is the only language worth a shit for content, but at least Japanese and Korean try to make stuff. The rest of you, what is your excuse for not making anything? You have none.

>n-no... we have great literature!
Sorry Pierre, your great authors were just a few europoor sadsacks. I'm sum up every european literary work and save everyone a lot of time:

>Life is... le bad...

Wow, ok. Meanwhile English content creators are pumping out high energy content every fucking day.

>>212841312
Even Toki Troona and Esperanto have content. You're being silly

>>212841312
French also has kinos and bande dessinée

>>212841001
No but it does have a name, too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English
>>212841312
Foreign media stifles their industries, or so I've read as an explanation, which makes sense to me.

>>212841312
>Meanwhile English content creators are pumping out high energy content every fucking day.
Such as?

>>212842118
Train by day, Joe Rogan by night... all day!

>>212842118
literally anything on any social media

>>212842236
I wonder when /lang/ will get invited onto joe rogan

>>212841312
>all these great pieces of literature? no sweetie, we have mrbeast
The anglo perspective

>>212842847
kek, and Joe Rogan don't forget

>>212842847
4 hours of reading some French guy that killed himself 300 years ago or 4 hours of JRE? Which do you think is going to do more for you? Get your T levels higher? Improve your situation? Teach you more?

>>212842847
>>all these great pieces of literature
most people, including me, dont have the attention span for that anymore, sorry

>>212841312
Lemme get this straight. Your argument against european languages is that they don't produce enough slop?

im about to hit 1700 day streak on duolingo

>>212843027
I hate that bald fuck.

>>212843344
Language? And results?

>>212842035
Low class improper speech isn’t unique to the South though. A lot of this is shit I’ve heard in the midwest or great lakes too.

>>212841312
nothing in the last like 15 years is genuinely good. period.

so is ALG actually better than the typical refold sort of advice or what

>>212846971
it's just one obssesed schizo shitposting

>>212847292
what's actually wrong with the method though? like everybody seems really against it

>>212846971
Not many people have done ALG, so it's hard to evaluate. Pablo did the original Thai ALG program and people said that his Thai still isn't perfect, but maybe it would've been worse if he didn't adhere to the strict rules, or maybe he thought he was doing ALG but he was analyzing or doing something else in his mind that interfered with the process. You can only really try it for yourself and see what happens.

Personally, I think the whole thing might not even work in theory, because even though we can reproduce how natives learn, we can't reproduce the same starting position, we are not complete blank slates and we're always starting with an existing language model. It's possible that even before you start acquiring your TL, you are already permanently "damaged" by your NL and you will always get different results than a native, no matter how much you try to avoid reading or thinking or translating. Everything you acquire in your TL will be built on a foundation of your NL, and in the end you get this Frankenstein's monster that sort of behaves like your TL but it's actually some NL+TL freak of nature that reveals itself in the subtle mistakes you make.

>>212847292
barbarus silvās occultat; cerebrum eius nōn ūnum cōgitātum habet. sī eum vidēs, curre!

>>212838569
unter den blinden ist der einäugige könig

>>212847651
There's no reason why you couldn't just accept the CI and stop analyzing it. Just let it hit you and accept it at face value as if you were a small child.

How does ALG work when you're listening to different accents?

>>212848331
i mean, babies and toddlers hear different accents on TV/movies/in public too right? i think it's more about the phonemes than accents.

>>212848331
When two parents have different accents, sometimes the child will just have a weird combination of the two. I saw a girl who's dad was english and mother was canadian, and sometimes she sounded english and other times canadian. just depended on the word.

Is it retarded to try and learn two similar languages at the same time? I *need* to improve my French... but my heart says learn Spanish.

>>212849123
Yes, you will get them mixed up in your head. There's already an interlanguage problem with one language (literal translations, accent from NL carrying over into the L2, etc.). This would get even worse with Spanish and French. You'd get Spanish and French grammar and vocabulary jumbled. You might think "gato" instead of "pastel" because you were thinking of "gateau" from French.

>I should learn X language because I like X culture.
Bandwagon Fallacy
>I should learn X language because I like X country's women.
Sexual overperception bias
>I bet if i'm fluent in X language I'll get X gf.
Naïve cynicism
>If i use Y method I'll for sure be fluent in no time!
Expectation bias
>There's so many previous cases of people who learned my TL
Selective perception
>If i just maintain this schedule I'll be fluent in Z years.
Illusion of control
>I feel like Y method really helped me improve.
Fundamental attribution error
>But I can't give up now I already spent Z years in X language.
Sunk cost fallacy.

>>212847651
>you are already permanently "damaged" by your NL
The brain is more adaptable than the ALGfags give it credit for. The reason that people have an accent or still make mistakes is because they haven't practiced enough and because nobody is going to correct you if you make mispronunciations or tiny mistakes. Unless you go out of your way to find a native speaker who is very perceptive and you tell him to interrupt you whenever you make a mistake. Only language autists like Richard Simcot do shit like this, but that's why they sound convincing enough to be a native.

>>212849973
This is only a problem if you output too early

>>212850704
I started to learn X culture after learning X language only after a year or so of studying it

>>212850704
I started to love X culture after learning X language only after a year or so of studying it

>>212851981
>The reason that people have an accent or still make mistakes is because they haven't practiced enough and because nobody is going to correct you if you make mispronunciations or tiny mistakes
Nobody knows why some people have very strong accents and others lose it quickly. There is no intervention that is even remotely close to 100% effective in this.
It's probably just down to genetics, some people are simply better.

every language is just english with funny words

>>212852954
You spelt Proto-Indo-European wrong american-kun

Imagine learning a TL just to get a girlfriend lol, do you really think the spaniards came to the americas and learned whatever quechua, tupi or aymara just to inseminate the natives there?

>>212853334
no, the only spaniards who learned native languages were priests who got 0 pussy

>>212853038
what did Proto-Indo-Europeans call the tower of babel?

>>212838703
It's the alluring ladyboy dicks

>>212854147
>tower of babel
semitic drivel

If I had to choose between Spanish or Portuguese I think I'd choose Portuguese desu
It just seems superior content wise
Still inferior to Italian

>>212855405
How so? You want to read Saramago and Coelho?

>>212850704
Half of them are good motivators to keep learning

What book should I translate for myself that isn't the little prince

>>212857218
green eggs and ham

>>212851981
children don't practice

>>212852275
>Nobody knows why some people have very strong accents and others lose it quickly
It's pretty obvious via ALG that they created bad habits by trying to speak early.

>>212858132
Autistic ones do

>Ehrm, studies say that children raised hearing X language can understand its phonemes but adults can't
But I can hear every phenomenon? Do they just not ever watch anything with subtitles and look at them and see the sounds and understand what they're hearing, like, I'm looking at the subtitles right now and I understand the phonemes and sounds 100%.

Word stress is 100 times more confusing and hard to understand than whatever phoneme thing they're talking about. This problem literally does not seem to exist if you just read and listen and input.
>>212857218
Alice in Wonderland

I know I just need more time now that I'm 95% of the way there but I just have the urge to pick up a new TL and let the other 5% just slow-roll its way in. I know even that this would be more efficient, but I can't will myself to stop until I'm at 100% or beyond - fluency just seems so close...
There has to be some point where it's just better to pick a new TL, I've never hopped TL's before though and I'm stuck in my old ways, I could have been A2 in Italian by now if I just anki'd a little every day.

>>212860933
how would you even measure that %?

>>212859649
>But I can hear every phenomenon?
A lot of adult ESL speakers can't hear the difference between words like bitch and beach or man and men. Or they can't hear the difference between é and è in French (although they're the same for some native speakers). Mant people have a lot of trouble distinguishing between all the consonants and their palatalized variants in Russian. Distinguishing phonemes can really be hard. Pic attached is the list of consonant phonemes in Russian.
>Word stress is 100 times more confusing and hard to understand than whatever phoneme thing they're talking about.
You mean like in Spanish, círculo vs circulo vs circuló? That's interesting if do, because it was never a challenge for me, but I don't know if you mean something else.

>>212861550
No, I mean "word stress" as in how Spanish doesn't really stress the words the same as english so now I have to pay attention to 100% of what someone is saying, whereas in english you could miss 90% of it and still here "go" "store" and you know they're going to the store.
Spanish and many other languages don't stress the words the same, english only stresses the important words so it creates a lot of lazy listeners - it's part of the reason why people think spanish "speak so fast", because english speakers aren't used to listening to everything someone says.

>>212861510
instinct and my general comprehension level - the level where I get extremely diminished returns on everything that I do and I basically just have to let my brain slow-roll for a couple years of daily relaxed input.

>>212861825
I think that's a good time to pick up another language and let your brain close the remaining gaps through long term exposure

>>212861788
Oh, I see what you're saying. You're talking about You mean stress-timed vs syllable timed languages. I guess getting used to that does just take some listening, yeah.
>>212848371
Phonemes can change from accent to accent, too, particularly in English. For instance. There are vowel mergers and splits in some accents and not others.

I'm vowel-deaf, I will never master German or French.
>>212859649
It's easier to learn, you just have to listen to it a lot, which is why Americans find it so easy to imitate Italians, for example: because they've heard a lot of that jumping intonation. With vowels and consonants, your brain replaces them with the closest known to you. A similar mechanism as with ignoring the nose by your eyes

how come no one's found the russian nature method books yet?

>>212862804
How did you master English then? English also has vowels that aren't in Polish.

>>212865022
The Italian tracked down all the physical copies and destroyed them.

>>212862804
>It's easier to learn, you just have to listen to it a lot
Can you not say the exact same thing about learning to distinguish between phonemes?
Also, Americans are bad at imitating Italians.

>>212865316
I didn't. I have an accent and I sometimes even stutter in English

>>212842847
French literature is mostly degenerate bullshit anyways. Picrel is an excerpt from Celine's newly discovered and published book, "War."
>Céline is widely considered to be one of the greatest French novelists of the 20th century, and his novels have had an enduring influence on later authors

i dont know what the fuck an ALG is but it's obviously a psyop
all of a sudden every thread is like ALG this and ALG that
how about i ALG this fat cock straight into your mouth you dumb CIA funded bitch

Why are meds not able to speak other Romance languages besides their own? I had 1 year of french and 3 years of Spanisch in high school and am breezing through Italian lessons. If I was actually native in one of these that’s like an 3 for 1 type deal. (Except portguese)

>>212866968
higher T levels cause being based unlike swamp jews
being based causes not bothering with sóylangs
not bothering with sóylangs causes being completely uninterested in dumb taco vendor nonsense
hope that clears things up

and this is without even considering that romance slop is utterly brown coded
the vast majority of portuguese speakers are brown brazilians and african negroes
the vast majority of spanish speakers are brown taco vendors
the entirety of romanian speakers are brown romanians
the vast majority of french speakers are about every kind of non white inbred subhuman that exists on planet earth and then some more

italian is ultimately the only white coded romance language

>>212841001
AAVE is (natively) spoken by some whites and not all blacks speak AAVE.

>>212866968
>If I was actually native in one of these that’s like an 3 for 1 type deal. (Except portguese)
The 3 for 1 deal would be Spanish, Italian and Portuguese, with French being similar but different enough that it's not piss easy to pick up form just knowing one of those three.

>>212867405
Which is why the term AAVE is fucking retarded black activist bullshit designed to profit off of encouraging low class degeneracy

i am trying to find some resources about mongolian social media latin alphabet usage instead of cyrillic. picrel is an example. can't find anything online. i can't find the rules behind it, only some info about failed Latin alphabet proposals.
as far as i can see, it doesn't translate straight from a cyrillic to latin rule change like you see in Russian language books about this sounds like that.
anyone heard of it before? maybe it is keyboard based with some obvious-for-them rules behind it.

i don't come to /int/ very often but i did a fews ago and saw the ALG thing and read about it and have started ALGing Bahasa Indonesian. just watching some vlogs and tv shows an hour a day. i can see the reasoning behind it. i'll just continue it until november before i look at any indo words.

>>212866785
lmao this. i feel like since the hack this entire website has just gone down the toilet.
time to fully retire from this place.

>>212868174
Have you tried checking how the keyboards they use work? If it's anything like japanese they are just using that.

>>212868174
why are you learning mongolian and indonesian?

If I have to watch one more episode of Peppa Pig, I'M GONNA FUCKING END IT

>>212866785
It's clearly just a single guy living off of an ALG book/patreon/whatever spamming this place, knowing that the high-functioning autists here will debate him for hundreds of posts no matter how much he argues in bad faith. He's just using this general to spread its name.

>>212869652
vidē porcum

>>212866785
there hasn't been any argument against ALG when it's brought up.

>>212871713
There has been, you just ignore it because you are an American (clinically retarded).

>>212852954
>most worldly American

>>212858132
If adults were bullied like children are, nobody would have an accent.

>>212866968
I could read French after like 5 minutes of studying, but actually learning to understand it well is hard. It has a lot of unusual words.

>>212868178
Don't forget you're here forever

>>212871713
I don't argue against ALG, I'm even willing to accept the possibility that it's a good method. I just want to know if you speak another language (if I should take you seriously) or if you're a monolingual (if I should ignore you).

>>212871889
Children actually can grow up with foreign accents.
>>212852954
This is really how a lot of monolinguals who have no idea about other languages think language works.
They think foreign languages are just English with the words replaced by another word that means the exact same thing and said in a foreign accent.

>>212868174
You are likely to find some autistic ass linguistics paper on it, rather than some random web page.

>>212851981
Having a cool accent is better than sounding perfectly native anyways. I'm very proud of my appalachian korean

>>212868578
Why not? Indonesian is cool. Idk about Mongolia though, outside of the cool throat singing shit.
I am learning Maori personally.
Its all fun :3

>>212873350
Indians will read this and think you are talking about them.

>>212873350
It feels weird listening to someone who is clearly from mainland Europe but manages to slip into some perfect RP when they speak . Do not like it tbqh.

>>212838189 (OP)
does anyone have a discord link or matrix i could join for language learning? I wanna speak with other people and most of the servers online are extremely pozzed and are usually someones personal grift. Preferrably with minimal shilling and no ads

>>212874288
Whatever MattvsJapan uses. Everything else is not worth it. ALGmaxxing is the future.

I am doubtful of ALGs efficiency compared to looking stuff up and studying at least a little

>>212871790
No, there actually hasn't. It's basically all attacks and "hmmm idk :\" replies. Nobody has given any sort of "here's 10 people who did it for a year and they can still barely understand any natives and their speech sounds really bad"

any time there is a review of it, the person understands natives and can speak fluently.

>>212875583
>here's 10 people who did it for a year and they can still barely understand any natives and their speech sounds really bad
Nigga, there has been countless people telling you that the dude who this shit is based off (J.M. Brown) came up with 5 copes for why his students were dog shit at the end of his course. 10 people are easily his students who were still shit at Thai.
>inb4 some gay shit
Kill yourself, Yank swine.

Why is fluent english so hard

>>212875818
Lots of monolingual English speakers are shit at their own language, so don't worry about it.

>>212875404
We learn literally. You're not looking stuff up in real life. If you want to understand people, you have to sit there and listen to them for a long while, like any child does, before you can understand what they're talking about. What skill are you acquiring by looking stuff up? You're hampering the whole process. Looking stuff up is not CI. You may as well not even bother.

>>212875767
There hasn't. You're literally making things up.

>>212875870
>There hasn't. You're literally making things up
Get a load of this fucking retard.

>>212875163
This seems like corporatemaxxing for his brand tho no?

>>212875977
Every ALG fag in this thread is a mongoloid.

Total ALG supremacy

The jordanon hasn't post here in a while huh?

>>212876117
He posts with a Polish flag now

>>212876117
Died :(

Do Spanish speakers use aquel/aquella/aquello in everyday speech anymore or is it just written language?

>>212876185
ALG forbids you from asking questions. Figure it out from 5000 more hours of immersion.

>>212876225
I can and do watch TV, like dubbed cartoons and the news in Spanish, but the way they talk is different to how Spanish speakers talk in real life.

MATRIX LINKS!!!!!

>>212876359
>I can and do watch TV, like dubbed cartoons and the news in Spanish, but the way they talk is different to how Spanish speakers talk in real life.
No asking, only ALG. Brown said asking questions makes you retarded and thus you will not learn the language. Not my rules, only those of the creator of ALG.

>>212876225
pretty sure ALG does like 600-1000 hours before speaking

>>212876464
When did I ever say anything about speaking? Anything you want to know is in the content you consume.
Dont need to ask questions. Dont need to look things up.
This is what Brown wanted.
To go against Brown is to invalidate his ALG method.

>>212876529
summary of the ALG methods for someone who doesn't wanna read?

>>212876464
This is supposed to be an estimate, but the real criterion is "Don't think." Only speak sentences that flow from your mouth mindlessly, rather than contrive sentences from tables of case endings and ad-hoc grammatical rules. This is just supposed to start happening after 1000 hours.

>>212876572
>summary... for someone who doesn't wanna read
That's more or less what it is actually

>>212876464
>Just spend multiple years watching children shows alone with no feedback whatsoever
>It's totally not a recipe for bad habits and loss of motivation

>>212876572
Brown made a course to teach people Thai. This course consisted of mainly two people acting shit out only in Thai.
Students are encouraged not to look things up, not to ask questions or anything else. Just get that sweet sweet immersion.
Then when students got to the end of the course with shitty Thai, Brown coped by making up a list of cardinal sins regarding his method,
Essentially speaking too soon, using dictionaries, taking notes and asking language specific questions. Any students who did these was destined to fail. He then added a fifth - don't think.

Basically if you think too hard about it you have already lost. You might as well give up.
If you are browsing here - you might as well give up because you have already lost. If you are using dictionaries, or language aids like Anki - you have lost so you might as well give up. If you have commited any of Browns sins you will never be fluent.

This is Browns ALG method. It is not a cult shilled by grifters in the language learning community.

>>212876572
basically: there is no critical period. we learn just like children do(just listening to adults talk to us), but as adults we compulsively add in a lot of stupid stuff that doesn't help acquiring language, and only gives you bad habits and fossilizes a bad accent


- repeating back what is said to you, as you will fossilize a bad accent
- trying to analyze the language or ask questions about it, as you will associate everything through your native language, and fluency will never be possible
- reading, because we read via understanding sentences, not putting indiviual words together
et cetera

we acquire skills and learn very literally. This is true in all skills. This language learning community pretending it's any different for this one skill is complete nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C25550A857F59F0

this playlist is easily the most redpilling of any language learning material in existence. it's the endgame of language acquisition.

>>212876785
>>Just spend multiple years watching children shows alone with no feedback whatsoever
you need multiple years to watch 600-1000 hours of visual CI? most people can do that in a year very easily. and obviously you wouldn't need material for children after the first 100-250 hours. your comprehension would improve and give you a large pool.

but yes, there is no free lunch. you have to go through being a toddler again if you want to acquire a language to level of a native.

>>212876802
discord or matrix linx?

>>212876906
for what?

>>212876957
Obviously for the ALG eceleb cuckcord you retard.

>>212875870
>You're not looking stuff up in real life
But I remember doing it for my native language. I remember clearly when I didn't understand something and my parents or teachers would explain it to me or tell me to look it up in the dictionary.
>>212876148
I'm not Jordananon

>>212877009
>I'm not Jordananon
Okay, Jordanski

>>212876982
there is no such thing AFAIK. there are no ALG ecelebs. that's one indicator that it actually works, versus the typical refold nonsense.

>>212877009
>But I remember doing it for my native language. I remember clearly when I didn't understand something and my parents or teachers would explain it to me or tell me to look it up in the dictionary.

that's long after this initial period that is so important for ALG. you were alread speaking, reading, and probably writing by then. everything has been acquired already. natives look in dictionaries. They've already fossilized a native accent, acquired fluent speech, understanding of appropriate vocabulary usage and the rhythm of native speech.

>>212876802
There is a critical period. If you don't learn a language by a certain age, your language abilities are permanently crippled. That's what happened to Genienthe feral child.
That's not to say that ALG isn't otherwise true.

>>212876886
No by 1000 hours I was negotiating my apartment contract and having conversations every day with my coworkers and girlfriend's family
Have fun with Peppa Pig though

>>212877086
The ALG ecelebs just repacked it as something else you blithering idiot.

Americans flags really are the stupidest posters.

>>212877086
But children start speaking very early and practice pronunciation for many years afterward; some even go to speech therapists when they can't pronounce their R or other sounds. ALGs begin speaking when they understand almost everything and they are supposed to pronounce everything correctly
I agree that you have to listen to the language, I have a problem with the vowels myself, but I think it is because the brain is fitting new sounds to these already known. That's why a lot of people say DE or ZE instead of THE because they don't have this sound in their repertoire. It's like drawing. You need a good eye, but also muscle memory to draw. Or like playing a guitar. I guess

My favourite method is
>to get better at reading, read
>to get better at listening, listen
I don't really care about the rest but I'm sure you can get better at speaking by speaking and writing by writing

Anyone famous who says accent matters is trying to sell you something.
Anyone who parrots that on /lang/ fell for it.

No matter how good your accent gets, it will never change the fact you're a white boy in foreign lands.

>>212876802
I heard about a guy who spent 1500 hours trying to learn spanish via alg/input only. At the end he said he could understand the majority of native content but was still missing a lot. A high-octane learner could literally get to that point or higher in 500 hours - spanish is one of the easiest languages to learn for english natives. Aint nobody got time for this alg shit even if it does
work

Also even supposing ALG speakers do have better accents - that could easily just be because they have 3x+ the hours listening as someone at the same level of fluency using more efficient methods, and your accent on any other method would be just as good or better once you reached the same number of listening hours

should i learn polish

>>212877623
No because you spoke too early and Brown says you will never make it.
We don't make the rules.

ALG is retarded and its basically cult, just learn languages the way you feel works best for you.

>>212877664
Yes.

>>212877695
Linguistics journals say that having fun is not a valid method, so check mate fun haver!

>>212877743
I know you're joking but that's a part of Stephen Krashen's Free Voluntary Reading method
God I hate the ALG method because it just seems so unnecessarily restrictive and boring
It's like the 'speak early and speak a lot' cult

>>212877858
they are freaks, if brown said you must kill yourself to learn a language they'd do it

>>212877858
Joking!? you think my pro ALG method is but a jest!? Nay! For you see, Brown once came to me and told me "Anon, you must go to /lang/ and tell them about my teachings. It is your mission to convert the naysayers to the only valid way to learn a language". Thus, here I am.

>>212877995
Did he tell you to buy the British VPN too?

I don't even know how to learn a language

>>212878061
Nope. British born and bread :3
Me gwan sleep now cuz me got di werk tmmrw.
Safe my g

I did some Duolingo and Anki before completely switching to input based learning. Is it over for me? Do I pick a new language?

amīcī, convenīte. vōbīs paucās curās quās habeō dare volō. putō phantasma malum super nōs stare. in hoc forō est. id verbīs dulcibus sed sōlum dē calamitāte loquitur. vigilāte et vidēte. impōnitne iordanicus nōs maledictiōne?

>>212877159
sure you were, with the ability of a foreigner, not a native.

Do any other languages omit verbs like the way German does at times?

>>212878380
i dont know what german does but you do that in russian with the be verb

anyways, friendship with russian ended
polish is my new best friend

>>212877342
children start speaking by about 24 months. that's probably ~700 hours of CI, which is also what ALG proponents observed to be when the leaners begin to speak. because there is no critical period.

>>212877695
>alg is a cult!!!

*glances at refold, ajatt, dreamingspanish, mattvsjapan, et al.*

lol

>>212878170
probably, yes. especially if it was like 100hrs of that

>>212878380
Idk how German does it, but here a verb is omitted in English: "My brother speaks German and my sister French."

>>212878380
Norwegian, probably the other scandi langs too

>>212878535
how is dreamingspanish different from alg?

>>212877695
>Cyprus enjoyer

>Need to reach 11,000,000 words read to encounter the top 9,000 words enough times to remember them
>Doing this over 4 years would be 7,500 words a day for 4 years
Wtf, is it literally that easy? That's like, 1/10th of a novel or less a day. Can you actually learn multiple languages at a time? Because that's a really low required word count if you average it over a few years.

petition to delete the Russian language

>>212879304
as far as i can tell, dreamingspanish uses ALG. crosstalk may have been a later addition not by Brown, though. nowhere in his autobiography

https://bradonomics.com/brown-autobiography/

is cross-talk mentioned as a part of ALG.

David Long does mention it, as a later addition to the AUA program after Brown retired, I think

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C25550A857F59F0

>>212878170
If you've done that for any language you're ruined

>Spend 100 hours doing traditional learning methods
>Spend 10,000 hours naturally inputting
>You are ruined and never recover
Amazing that some people actually believe this. I spend time in english looking up words I don't know, even.

>>212880138
see >>212877086

>Fossilized
Stopped reading right there, no connection to reality.
Oh oops my typing is fossilized I meant to say
aaaaaaaaa (this is what you learn to type first in typing class)

>>212880433
the fact that people cannot change their accents easily is proof of fossilization

>>212879515
There's some interesting research that calculated the number of word families in popular novels, and assuming you need to encounter the word N amount of times (the same thing anki does) you would need to read about 40ish novels to hit a high school level vocab.
Which is easily doable in 4 years yeah, although you do need some listening and speaking practice.
Languages aren't hard, they just need reasonable constant effort.

>>212838189 (OP)
Guy on the bottom is literally me.

>>212854183
Going to Thailand and not shagging a ladyboy is the same as going to Turkey and not getting a kebab

>>212880696
Does it count if the ladyboy shags me?

>>212880757
I guess

how are your icelandic studies coming along?
you ARE doing your reps, right anon?

>>212880566
I saw a similar one, but it said 92 for 9,000 words. That was probably a high benchmark, as after 5,000 they REALLY get diminishing returns and it could be that 8,000 words only takes 40.
>Languages aren't hard, they jsut need reasonable constant effort
This is what I've concluded, if I can read like 25 pages a day and learn a language it's just easy.

>Muh accent
This is the kind of shit a2's argue about, any c2 knows that they just want to read books and watch youtube videos in said language and talk with their friends and it literally doesn't matter for them.
Literally nobody cares about accent actually, people act like they do but they really don't as long as you don't have something like an indian accent.

>>212880545
Accent is more to do with muscle movements in the face, mouth, and tongue to create the correct sound though. It's the whole point of muscles to optimize performing certain movements by fusing muscle fibers. The brain is involved in telling those muscles how to move sure, but it's completely different than the idea of fossilizing incorrect grammar. The brain is much more adaptable than muscle.

>>212880869
almost all asian accents (excluding japanese and korean) are offensive to the ears. the only other one I can think of is french. english speakers from pretty much anywhere else (africa, europe, south america) sound fine

>>212880820
Þær fara mér vel. Ég voni að segja

>>212880969
trve trve, but all of that muscle also literally has a mind of its own that is adaptable and becomes accustomed to certain movements (in the neurons even, not just in the actual muscle tissue)

>>212880969
you're really just making stuff up

>Download italian anki deck (the most popular one)
>15,000 sentences
WHY would you need this many? You're never getting through that many, who makes these things?

I'm not listening to music of imperial Italy though it's just input.

>Looking up how easy it is to learn a third language as opposed to your second language
>Try for like 5 minutes
>Wtf, the words are just easy to understand and make sense
Everyone is saying it's because of "better methods and understanding of language" or whatever, but I think it's literally just that your brain gets bigger and you learn things faster. OK, I changed my mind, polyglotts are real. Is this why europoors pretend to know 8 different languages, because after they learned english poorly all other languages seemed easy?

>>212880138
Brown, the guy who wrote the book on ALG, doesn't even say you can't get really good. He spent hundreds of hours learning Thai manully in the army (pronunciation drills, grammar study, flash cards, etc.) and decades in Thailand, and he claims his Thai is good enough to trick native speakers over the phone in his book. But, he says, he's always speaking through his monitor; it's not at all like speaking his native language, English. This is the damage he means is permanent, and that if he'd never studied and only done ALG it would be literally like his native language.
Still hard to believe, though.

>>212881042
No, the Japanese accent is pretty terrible in English unless it's faint. I think most accents in English sound bad, whereas a Japanese accent with Spanish or vice versa, for instance, does not sound so bad.

Rate my German pronunciation:
https://voca.ro/1oeAqnLfMzDY

european spanish sounds better than latin american

european english sounds better than latin american (united states)

>>212877695
Is that a language tier list?

>>212873354
Have fun anon

>>212883153
I thought you liked American English?

>>212883153
This is true. I hope that I don't offend anyone here too much, but Europeans speaking with USA-English accents generally sound quite bad from an aesthetic perspective. It's an ugly accent in general, and the rest of the native-English-speaking world only tolerates it. I have never met a European learner of the English language who did not sound pleasant with a British accent. In fact, it sounds quite lovely and endearing.

>>212884024
Not sure if you mean me personally, Russians, or Europeans in general, but either way, no. Most teachers, even the young and good ones, advocate for the British way. The only people who do American here (and I suppose it's the same in Europe) are self-taught manchildren, ITrannies, cartoons-watchers, and so on (excluding specific cases when people actually prepare to live in the US). They're just a vocal minority from the Internet, especially on nerdy forums like 4chin or Reddit.

>>212884137
I'm pretty sure it's because all the people with British accents were from good schools and consequently with good education overall. It's really as simple as that in Europe: good school = British English, bad school = American English.

>>212841312
English is an overrated language. It does have good literature, but so is true for French and German and Russian.
Basically the only way a European person of good character can actually use English in practice is to talk to a wider array of coloured servants while on vacations than when using French or Spanish.

>>212880545
As someone with a fucked accent, I can tell you accents change over time.
I was born in New Zealand so my I had a NZ accent, then I moved to the UK after 15 years and have been here for 10 years now. My accent is much less NZ now.
That's why you shouldn't really worry about it in my opinion. I think it changes the more you are around people with different ones lmao.

Btw I'm still not sure whether French is actually worth learning or whether it's really just poor man's English.
It has an analogue for everything English has but that analogue is usually just plainly worse (e.g. Quebec and Romandy vs. the USA, more violent negroes vs. more chill negroes, jeets plus chinks plus seapes vs. Arabs, France vs. the UK, those weird small colonies all over the world that are still France vs. Australia and New Zealand).
Yet surprisingly I have it much easier reading French, which I wasn't learning ever, than reading German, which I was kind of learning for about a year.

Does anyone know of any shows like peppa pig that are natively chinese?

>>212841312
Honestly this. Fucking Italians never make anything

>>212885203
>born in New Zealand
>moved to the UK
Why.

>>212879545
I would commit war crimes for Dreaming Italian to be made. No southern shit though, only northern italian.

save your life
say no to Russian

>>212876185
Yes, it’s fairly common.

>you can't change your accent
>its fossilized forever
https://youtu.be/uHKGErnN9W8

I've managed to shake off my desire to learn Russian temporarily by getting excited about French literature again
Still, I've realised that Russian is definitely going to be my next language, not Italian, not Classical Chinese and not Classical Japanese

>I've managed to shake off my desire to learn Russian
good
>Still, I've realised that Russian is definitely going to be my next language
very bad

>>212880820
I don't know if I'll ever get to Icelandic... maybe in my 50's.

>>212876185
Claro que sí

>>212887095
Why do you hate Russian so much

>>212884873
based and correct

>>212887870
because i enjoy brown cocks and not enough brown people speak russian
im trans btw

>>212888266
the German learner, everybody

>>212888266
Lots of churkas in Russia youll find plenty
They dont call it moskovabad for no reason

I'm learning French and German, and I'm doing poorly in both. I'll have to drop one. The worst part is that I have to listen to both languages more and I don't have time. That sucks

>>212882718
Why should I buy into his method if he didn't even use it himself?

>>212888266
Fuck you

>>212889760
youre brown

>Spanish
>B and V can be pronounced the same way
>C and Z are th sounds
>fucking D is a th sound sometimes
>they have a G that sounds kinda like a harsh Y
In what world should "ciudad" be pronounced "thiuthath?"

>>212890116
Doesn't it depend on where the speaker is from? Are you listening to some Andalucian?

>>212882718
Nothing about it is hard to believe. Krashen believes stuff like that too. You people are idiots.

>>212890389
>Krashen believes stuff like that too
citation

>>212884137
>I have never met a European learner of the English language who did not sound pleasant with a British accent
lmao. It sounds fucking retarded on foreigners.
>>212884516
You sound like a retard.
>>212885203
it took you 10 years. That's not malleable whatsoever.

>>212889713
pretty sure he did use it for some language, but thai he learned the traditional way and was never native level.
>>212890407
ALG type stuff is basically the concensus among these L2 researchers. ALG isn't even a contentious thing. you people are just retards who are seething that it means you fucked up and caused permanent damage. facts don't care about your feelings. get over it. i'll be happy to cite a bunch of sources if you give me a moment.

>>212890407
lmao, serious? Krashen talks about the "silent period" himself and warns against speaking early as it will create bad habits.

he talks about it being bad for the same reasons that Brown cites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7WUxvpPIKQ&t=495s

he talks ad-naseum about speaking early being a bad thing to do
>naturally it take a year or two before you're comfortable(just like children), but with CI we can do it earlier(600-800 hours as done in the ALG program at AUA)

>>212868468
i found a site which has a latin to cyrillic converter and a on screen keyboard which makes it easy to get the cyrillic from the latin so i guess now i just have to learn the keyboard rules. still not perfect results but enough to work with to learn how it works.

i've never came across the site before, maybe people here already know it:
https://www.lexilogos.com/english/index.htm

>>212868578
long term business goals

Outputting early is extremely stupid. Maybe if you had a native to immediately correct you 24/7, but otherwise a guaranteed way to develop bad habits that you'll have to spend a decade trying to fix.

>>212890493
Yeah this is the bit I was referring to.
>>212889713
Well he says his students who did it right surpassed him.

Okay, aside from ALG, when can I output? What if I dry-practice all the new sounds first, and then learn with something like Pimsleur?

Why is this general obsessed with Algeria?

>>212890806
Sain baan nuu nigger

>>212891782
>What if I dry-practice all the new sounds first, and then learn with something like Pimsleur?

>>212890116
spaniards are african mutt monkeys

ozempic fad of the month, just ask anyone with an american flag talking about ALGeria to post something in their tl. what does the alg stand for?
Automaticum
Letum
Grex

This letter is so kino, I wish it was a real letter and not just used in the IPA

>>212891782
When you don't have to think about constructing or translating or pronouncing the sentence before you say it. If you have to pause and think, go over some conjugation table in your head or remember the IPA, you're not ready to say it yet. Simple as.

>>212892092
ALG is nothing new on /lang/, it just seems like every year some newfag rediscovers it and really wants to tell the whole world about it.

>>212887196
Funny image because that guy made an Icelandic video and he was absolute dogshit in it.

>>212892596
You'll love Armenian

>>212885445
UK is comfy, has better weather (unless you're a sunfag in which case you're browncoded and I do not care about your opinion) and doesn't have cringe bugs

>>212877695
>putting the ultimate Chud language in E
baka

number of alg shills that have posted in any language besides english?

>>212893313
>>212892596
Kalle is right, you'll love hwjunuu (armenian in armenian)

>>212893042
After the first Pimsleur lesson, I didn't have to think, I just answered the question immediately as they taught me

>>212891782
Not sure what "dry-practice" means, but when I dabbled in Pimsleur Polish, I legit had no idea sz/(s) were different sounds so I had to really dig deep into learning those sounds and try and pick them out. I would never have realized unless someone told me about it.

>>212877695
The real list

>>212893678
That's because you memorized a response to a specific question, but actual output is much more difficult and will deviate a lot from whatever tourist script they're teaching you.

>>212893804
Breton? Unless I'm blind and can't see it

>>212893908
Wasn't on the list. I'd put it next to Persian as "would be cool"

>>212893974
add nubian

Uuuuuugghhhhh it's not FAIR
I wanna be fluent NOWWWWW
Like, come ONNN

>>212894295

>>212893721
Z, s, sz, ś, si. All similar but a little different.
I had similar problem with German vowels and I'm not talking about umlauts but word endings
>>212894295
Me too anon. Me too

>>212895178
How much longer???

Has anyone made a complete list of courses published by assimil? Browsing pirate sites, I've noticed that there are a bunch that aren't listed on their website (mostly older editions but also whole-ass languages they stopped offering).

>>212889713
He tried doing it with some dialect and failed, thus came the 5th cope. No thinking allowed because he was so smart and couldn't stop thinking he obviously couldn't do the method anymore.

>>212896643
As long as it takes. Stop thinking about the finish line, think about what you can do in your TL today. If you fill up your day with fun TL activities, the time will go by faster.

>>212896643
There is no end. That "how long to learn" bullshit is a meme. It's a life long thing.

seeing white men speaking SEA languages will never not be hilarious. they look so retarded.

>>212898774
Nothing wrong with learning SEA languages

>>212898774
a white manlet armed with the width of a toothprick and the words of their language would be a king among the vietnamese; residing in his opulent rat tunnel palace.

>>212899051
tf tp

isnt swedish men marrying SEA women a meme

>>212899051
"yeah, I'm fluent in all SEA language, I'm seamaxxing, how could you tell?"

>>212899454
Kek
Yeah true although its mostly boomers and some gen xers who are into them
Personally though I don't see anyone outside of my race as marriage material

>>212900299
Based.

don't learn Russian!

>>212901164
I will

>>212897677
I can't though, I'm too emotional, all I can think about is how cool I'll be and how much everyone will like me when I've reached my goal
>>212898045
This is like saying "You're never done learning how to drive a car because you could always learn how to drive different vehicles at higher speeds on different terrain"
What's even the point of bringing this up?
My goal isn't to become a literary author in my TL. I just want to be able to read/watch content without looking up words and have regular conversations.

>>212901224
awful decision

>>212901263
>how cool I'll be and how much everyone will like me when I've reached my goal
No one will care lol

>>212901164
Why? You keep saying Russian is a mistake to learn and that you shouldn't learn it.

>>212901319
DO NOT TRUST this italian anon he's trying to get you to learn Russian by using clever reverse psychology. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

>>212901814
fuck off German learner

What's your preferred way to start learning a language? Anki gooning? Textbooks?

>>212902796
Children's tv shows

>>212901541
Everyone will care!

>>212901541
kill yourself NOW faggot
>>212899051
pedophile/sexpat/tranny fucker langs

>>212903151
>kill yourself NOW faggot
WTF? That's rude. Why?

>>212901263
>all I can think about is how cool I'll be and how much everyone will like me when I've reached my goal
BASED. for me, you're already cool for doing the work

>>212902796
At the very start? I want to quickly get some vocab in and figure out basic sentences, so Anki with a frequency deck + Assimil/Nature method books is my go-to. When I get bored with that, I move on to graded readers and youtube learner videos with Language Reactor add-on.

>>212902917
He's right, Portie. Best you'll get is a "wow, that's pretty cool, i also learn languages with duolingo and have a long streak" and then you move on with the conversation to something else. It might give you opportunities to meet new people but just because you speak their language doesn't mean you'll immediately connect and be on the same wavelength.

If you want to impress people, you'd be better off learning how to juggle or do card tricks lol

Is speaking required from the beginning in ASSiMIL? This lack of speaking really irritates me. I don't understand why I can't speak and act out scenes in my head, thus naturalizing the language in my head.

>>212903846
You will develop bad habits. You havent' heard the language enough to understand what sounds right. No, you repeating some audio back isn't the same as a native in front of you telling you it's right or wrong. only after like 600-800 hours will you be able to gauge whether something sounds right or wrong.

nonne linguae ītalica et russica pulchrae sunt? iam in forō phantasma malum exsistit--sciō. sed, num contra tantumodo ūnum phantasma dēfendimus? algerium est, ūnum. ac ūnus vīr ītalicus malum in suō corde contra linguam russicam habet. duo.

>>212903294
demoralization posting.
we're supposed to keep the morale high here.

>>212903632
<3
>>212903724
Whenever I meet a polyglot irl I'm always awestruck and secretly respect that person way more than normal. I guess normies aren't like this though...

>>212905745
there's nothing to respect. it's just a person with nothing else to do.

>be me
>learn language
>try to use it
>can't understand anything because the person I'm talking to has a non standard accent
countries should ban these kinds of accents, you can't have 7 different pronounciations from a word depending on where you were born

>>212906111
kys

>>212906148
stay mad, gay weirdo. go suck a polygots dick for not having a job lol. 90% of them are full of shit anyway.

>>212906141
me with Spanish

>>212906141
average refold experience

>>212904522
you can ignore my advice, but you will regret it

>>212904339
>only after like 600-800 hours
There are many languages with similar phonetics, and I probably picked up many of the sounds by osmosis or by listening to music. I can rely on familiar sounds and check unknown ones, and use IPA from time to time

>>212907104
>>212907104
>>212907104

>>212838189 (OP)
Colombia, ya voy...por una cosa.
>>212880648
Lo mismo pero con la idioma espanol

>>212907156
Idioma es una palabra masculina
Debiste escribir "el idioma"

>>212907187
En serio?
Gracias, anon.

>>212907187
ughh, so you're one of those pronoun people