Thread 212881446

Poland is losing its SOVL

why

a villa? it has no courtyard, no garden, no nothing
it's a townhouse

meanwhile people can't afford to start families

>>212881446 (OP)
Sadly, it's going to get a kebab shop, tattoo parlour or Żabka crammed in there.

Those are the 3 principle interests of nu-Polaks.

>>212881446 (OP)
Wow maybe in 100 years we will look like Germany today.

Bielsko-Biala was a majority German city before WW2 btw and this house most likely belonged to a German family

remont mieszkania to nie małe pieniądze a co dopiero zabytku

meanwhile they make cuts to health aid

and teachers are paid very low

>>212881446 (OP)
fuck off
ching chong chink chong

>>212883625
true lol

>>212883625
me on the right

>>212883625
Ukraine should join the EU then

>>212885859
We don't behave arrogantly to Ukraine though. Arrogance is a German trait

>>212886121
Not facing the truth is also an arrogant trait, therefore you're German like this guy>>212885859
Gross

>>212886155
The truth is that Poland didn't get EU money out of nowhere, we strove to get admitted to the EU for decades, gradually adopting EU norms and rules, fighting corruption and first of all - having it as our primary goal.

At the same time, for all the 90s and early 00s, Ukrainians kept laughing at us saying that we are stupid, that the EU will only destroy our industry and make us poor and that Ukraine is pursuing 200iq policy of not doing any change in the political and economic system but rather milking two cows, maintaining neutrality between Europe and Russia but still leaning more towards Russia because le great empire, spiritual pillars and so on.

And now Ukrainians would dare say that we get "free" EU money while Ukraine gets nothing? They literally voted for it.

>>212886108
You blind?

>>212886228
You keep repeating this smart shit about "Ukrainians were laughing at us back in the day", but the fact is, no one really gave a shit about Poland

>>212886480
>smart
*same

>>212886480
>no one really gave a shit about Poland
My uncle ran a business in the 90s and had a lot of customers from Belarus/Ukraine and that's what he heard from them.

Yes, you did give a shit about us because your post-commies showed Poland in the 90s as a negative example

>Look, Poles sold their commie industry to Germans and now they have high unemployment and half of that industry is gone, this is why Ukraine needs to keep Ukrainian industry in Ukrainian hands, like of me Rabinovich from Odessa or mr Tatarovich from Kharkov. Yes, none of them knows even one word in Ukrainian but how does it even matter??? We are people of Russian culture too!!!

>>212886738
Not buying it. People were much more preoccupied with their own survival to think about something else (like Poland), as our economy was hit much more harder than yours.

>>212881446 (OP)
Thanks for clarifying which is which

>>212886830
>Not buying it. People were much more preoccupied with their own survival to think about something else (like Poland),

Dude, obviously the 90s were harsh times everywhere in eastern Europe but it's not like people didn't read newspapers, didn't watch TV and didn't have their opinions on political/economic issues. It's kinda normal that if a Ukrainian guy comes to Poland and meets a Polish businessman, they start discussing economic topics.

>>212886830
>People were much more preoccupied with their own survival to think about something else (like Poland), as our economy was hit much more harder than yours.
You're "fighting for your survival" now much more than in the 90s yet you think about Poland pretty often and draw comparisons and wish "Ukraine could be like Poland". Of course it could, but it's not because it was your own choice. When Poland was undergoing shock therapy and was adjusting its legal and economic environment to EU norms, Ukraine was doing nothing, trying to "keep the balance" between Europe and Russia. And Ukrainians generally liked this policy. When Yushchenko tried to change it for a more pro-EU course, he eventually lost the election. Because Ukrainians simply didn't know what they wanted. Well, they still don't, even nowadays, in the middle of the war against Russia, support for joining the EU in Ukraine is only around 50%, while one would expect it should be 90%+. But apparently despite getting bombed by Russia still a large part of Ukrainians still believe that after the war it will be possible to return to "business as usual" with Russia

>>212886864
And that's the thing. I highly doubt that a local businessman of the time would ever imply that the economic policies of Kravchuk and Kuchma presidencies are good for economy. Quite the contrary.

>>212881446 (OP)
Above: Poland under Polish rule
Below: Poland under firm Lithuanian leadership

>>212886995
These weren't actually businessmen but customers, they bought stuff from my uncle because there were severe shortages in Ukraine, but whatever. The point is that you kept voting for guys who wanted to maintain status quo and "balance" between Europe and Russia and first of all - not to sell Ukrainian industry to Europeans but only to Russians or to "lawyers from Odessa".

>>212881446 (OP)
So THIS is where the eu gibs went...

>>212886948
Well congrats, your state wasn't ruled by ex-commies in the 90's and could quickly undergo market transformation.

>>212887102
>your state wasn't ruled by ex-commies in the 90's
First of all, it was ruled by ex commies too, just they adopted pro-free-market attitude after communism collapsed.

Secondly, our country was ruled by them because we elected them and we agreed for harsh measures like shock therapy. Ukrainians preferred to vote for populists who promised to keep all that communist industry and Taras fell for that bait. You can only blame yourselves.

>>212887056
I'm sorry your country had to have a metaphorical "uphill fight" to be where it is now. And it doesn't matter that your hill has an incline of 35° and ours is pushing 55°.

>>212887187
1. Poland was and remains an ethnostate
2. You never were a part of the ussr and never experienced joys of russification
3. Poland had 20 years of independence before WW2 and it's intelligencia wasn't physically removed. And even afterwards, the diaspora was incredibly strong and large.
4. You don't live next to russia.
5. You never had to listen to an equivalent of Chicken Kyiv speech.

>>212883625
me on the left

>>212887614
You're an ethnostate too

>>212887614
>You never were a part of the ussr and never experienced joys of russification
insane pidor forgot about korenizatsiya

>>212887614
>never experienced joys of russification
huh

>>212887614
>Intelligentsia wasnt physically removed
Katyń? Intelligentzaktion? Post war repressions made by Bierut? Our intelligentsia was extremely repressed for like 20 years, only during Gomułka it got slightly better.

>>212881446 (OP)
I genuinely think in the ruined state it looked prettier, there's something sterile about this renovation
>>212883625
nobody even mentioned ukraine, hivan

>>212883625
>pookrainians actually believe this
you have to go back to the trench mykola

>>212886228
random tard baited you with 3 clicks into writing an essay
don't bother dude, go on with your day

>>212883625
why would ukraine want out of the ruskey mir hmmmm

>>212885534
What's wrong with tattoo parlors? Like barber shops they increase GDP and don't consume any substantial resources.

>>212888988
/pol/ hates them

>>212887715
Not in the 90's for sure. They gave out Ukrainian passports to everyone, regardless of their actual ethnicity or loyalty. Should have gone the Estonian route in retrospect.

>>212889061
Not a hivemind.

>>212887614
Estonia had it worse than you yet they simply knew who to vote and what route to choose

>>212888570
Those were horrible events and I'm in no way trying to downplay them, but that is hardly comparable to what happened to us. You actually had a state you could call your own and that state didn't try to eradicate your identity, trying to make you into a new soviet man. You were always Polish and the German couldn't do anything about it, except kill you.

>>212889195
Estonia is a textbook case of "burn it to the ground and rebuild from foundations". They had a living memory of their own state, which we didn't. Besides, their geographical and demographic disposition was and is quite different from ours.

>>212887614
>>212889271
>it's intelligencia wasn't physically removed. And even afterwards, the diaspora was incredibly strong and large.
German reports noted that 96% of the intelligencia on the to-kill lists were exterminated, with 4% fleeing or going into hiding.
And then the communists came, Katyń happened, and for decades they were actively hunting down and executing people. Members of my family received a "pardon" in 1994, as previously there was a state issued death sentence on them. From being aristocrats and military officers they had to hide, live under fake identities and fling pig shit for a living. Still they fought in AK for as long as it was possible, rescued some jews (questionable decision) and even landed in german camps (got out thanks to a massive bribe paid in solid gold).
Along with a "pardon" in 1994 they received some medals and their graves got some extra decorations during a military ceremony to honor them. They never fled the country and they've lost everything.
Polish elites got absolutely blendered, and those who didn't flee the country either collaborated with russians (I know plenty of examples for that) or barely survived and lost everything in the process.

>>212883625
EU gibs are like 1% of our economy or less

>>212885534
nothing wrong with a żabka

This thread proves Ukrainians are best at finding excuses for why their state is like it is instead of actually improving it

>>212889271
Maybe the Malorosy should have rallied behind Petlura instead of remaining indifferent

>>212889940
to me it looks more like poland had a different realipolitiks situation, mostly for its geographical location and poles for some reason pretend they did this themselves

even though there are plenty of former soviet countries that outdid poland by miles and poles being relatively troubling example of former eastern state in the EU

>>212890367
Anon on both sides it's mostly propaganda wars, don't get too involved in propaganda kek

>>212885560
>look like germany
You have medieval sovl kinomania in almost all of your cities while we have modern architecture slop. I wish german cities still had their pre ww2 soul. Have you seen Mannheim? Literal american chessboard hell

>>212890394
I see poles acting way too selfishly proud about this stuff and I dont think you guys are joking

>>212890367
>and poles for some reason pretend they did this themselves
Umm because we did? Ukraine was free to do the same what we did yet they didn't.

Other eastern European countries are smaller than one Polish voivodeship, that comparison makes no sense. It's like Monaco boasting about being richer than France.

And Poland isn't troubling by any means, it's actually the poster child of eastern Europe.
r

>>212890398
Nah, we have way too many run down buildings, we need to fix them first and then we will think about demolishing them to make way for concrete rectangulars. That's the proper western way.

>>212890367
>even though there are plenty of former soviet countries that outdid poland by miles and poles being relatively troubling example of former eastern state in the EU
which ones? the only ones that barely fit that description are Lithuania and Estonia - even then I wouldn't call it "by miles", we did pretty good, definitely in the top 5 of states east of RFN

>>212890441
>It's like Monaco boasting about being richer than France.
pretending that comparing Czechia or Baltic states to Poland is like comparring city state to France is yet another example of flat out lying

again. Ukraine is in the position it is in for realipolitikal situation which it couldnt really do anything about. Poles moving to Ukraine and Ukrainians moving to Poland would change the situation for Ukrainians.

>>212890469
baltic states are most likely gonna become net payers to the EU the next cycle, while poles are gonna be net beneficaries for at least 2 decades still. Poland is still run using coal as well so a lot of whats going in Poland is really pushed by Poland not really developing too hard and betting on India-tier growth

and again, this is mostly because of your geographic location. Try living in de facto island like Finns do and try to at the same time be economically and ecologically responsible. Poland in this way doesnt really differ from a Soviet state.

>>212890479
Poland is growing much faster than Czechia. In 1990 the difference between us we much bigger than it is now

>>212890583
>while poles are gonna be net beneficaries for at least 2 decades still.
Yes, we do that on purpose with gerrymandering, lowering our GDP numbers and such, for as long as it will be possible, because you must be insane to willingly become a net contributor, then being in the EU stops making sense and you can as well leave it. We will milk the EU for as long as it's possible.

>>212881446 (OP)
that's why i get robbed by the EU

>>212890632
lot of catch up to do. India is growing faster than Poland.

>>212890583
>Poland in this way doesnt really differ from a Soviet state.
We compared ourselves to Ukraine, not to Finland. If 4x difference in average income between PL and UA means nothing to you then well..

>>212890662
yes, as I've seen, Poles will most likely switch from the west to russia soon enough. Ultimately Poles hate Ukrainians and Germans more than Russians and they will choose the one they hate less

>>212890671
And yes, India is also improving year by year. But again, it's not about Poland being the best in the world, but simply better than Ukraine

>>212890583
>Poland is still run using coal as well so a lot of whats going in Poland is really pushed by Poland not really developing too hard and betting on India-tier growth
So your "analysis" is just based on superficial things that "look bad" to you. Our GDP per capita grew from $1700 in 1990 to $25000 in 2025, we stepped up massively in the global value chain - going from an African/poor latin america tier nation to a proper european one - that *is* massive development that *can't* be denied.

>>212890695
>Poles will most likely switch from the west to russia soon enough.
Russia has nothing to offer us so don't worry. We will stay in the EU as long as it's better alternative than being outside it.

>>212890709
this is like if Finns would've laughed at Poland for being poor during Soviet times
it didnt in fact and the evil west you think of actually was very worried about you, but for some reason you cannot do the same for other people

such christians you are

>>212890695
>Ultimately Poles hate Ukrainians and Germans more than Russians
Where did you take this from? In all surveys Russians are always the least likable nation in Poland (along with Gypsies and Arabs). Germans and Ukrainians are in the middle.

>>212890721
>So your "analysis" is just based on superficial things that "look bad" to you.
some indian person most likely would've said the same about street shitting when calling out that.

and no, its not proper european one. Baltics are, but not Poland, not even close.

>>212890745
>this is like if Finns would've laughed at Poland for being poor during Soviet times
The Soviet system was imposed on us forcefully. Ukraine has been a free democratic country since 1990. What they have now is a consequence of their free choice. You cannot expect me to feel sorry for them.

>>212890459
>way too many run down buildings
so does the fomer GDR, many villages still look like shit. We just made some inner cities nicer. If I looke at stuff like picrel I get really jealous. T

>>212890784
If being a "proper European country" means allowing others to fuck you over and take pride in paying money rather than taking then fine, let them be European, while I take the money.

>>212890772
polls about how much you dislike someone are retarded. They dont mean anything. If you fight with someone then you are obviously gonna answer negatively, it doesnt mean anything fundamentally.

Fundamentally speaking, Poles have a way bigger interests and potential to hate Germans and Ukrainians more. This is shown in your politics right now. You are almost chudding out against Germany and Ukraine right now because....literally for no reason, while easing out with Russia for....no reason

>>212890821
Toruń is one of few examples of medieval towns that survived WW2 unscathed, sadly. That can be compared to Quedlinburg in east Germany

>>212890799
this level of dishonesty about Ukrainian history is yet another example why Poland cannot into the west. Baltics and Czechia are in already, but not you.

>>212890846
>You are almost chudding out against Germany and Ukraine right now because....literally for no reason, while easing out with Russia for....no reason
None of this is true. Yes, relations with both Germany and Ukraine worsened but there are clear reasons for that. And there is no sign of improving relations with Russia

>>212890423
The poles on /int/ and 4chan in general are quite a warped, flawed sample.

>>212890886
>dishonesty about Ukrainian history
You're free to elaborate how Ukraine was supposedly occupied by foreign forced after 1990.

They had normal elections, they voted for pro-Russian politicians because they believed their propaganda, now they're paying for that. We had the same politicians in Poland but we just ignored them.

>>212890909
there is literally no reason for getting angry at Germans or Ukrainians as Poland right now. Zero. You dont even realize how much you are babied because people see how you have such a fucked mindset. Its this victim cult where nothing is your fault, everyone else is at fault and you deserve everything and you cannot give back at all.

again, Baltics and Czechia are integrated with Europe, but Poland is still very close to russia mentally

>>212890799
>free democratic country since 1990
>is a consequence of their free choice
kek. democratic elections are totally not a symbolic meme choice between Pepsi and Coca Cola. Big business owned by oligarchs and deep state connections led superpowers would never fight over influence in less powerful states without any regard of the effected peoples welfare. American democracy promotion was totally altruistic and not a way of power projection. Its all about democratic choice, morality and respecting international law

>>212890930
take out poles that browse 4chan and int, you have Polish middle aged people plus boomers who are even worse
then sure there are leftists, but if the only more realistic people are leftists then yeah-...

>>212890993
>there is literally no reason for getting angry at Germans or Ukrainians as Poland right now. Zero.
You have no idea what you're talking about but whatever. Keep making yet another thread about how Fennoswedes are ruining Finland.

>>212883705
The garden is on the other side and would have been very nice back in the day, the only problem is it now adjoins a busy open air marketplace with a ton of stalls which is JUST outside of photo's frame to the right. The whole structure under the balcony had a nice winding set of stairs going down into the garden which seem to have been removed in the renovation which is a shame. But yeah it's not much of a villa; IIRC the original owner was an engineer.

The thing with the town of Bielsko-Biała is that it was basically one third German, one third Jewish, and one third Polish (depending on how you draw the borders - the Poles were mostly suburban labour commuters into the town's factories) before the war. Auschwitz is very close by, so the entire Jewish population got disappeared moments after the war started, and then the Germans were expelled at the end kf the war. So the town ended up mostly empty, but minimal war damage. The Communist government took all those nice townhouses of the elites and divided them into tiny social housing flats for resettled and otherwise displaced people. So until very recently all the top real estate in town was taken up by some of the pooredt people there and falling into disrepair.

t. former Bielsko-Biała native

Russians liberated poland from third reich, gave them their country, built beautiful buildings like palace of culture and they still hate us because apparently we didn't supress them enough or attack them.
If it isn't the proof that they're the ultimate slave nation not worthy of a dirty sock then i don't know what is.

Not to mention how drastically lacking their achievments as a nation are despite being very numerous

>>212891182
>us
might want to use a different VPN next time

>>212891064
>You have no idea what you're talking about but whatever. Keep making yet another thread about how Fennoswedes are ruining Finland.
now you gave an example of actual shitposter, but you guys are not actual shitposters and are serious

>>212891182
>Not to mention how drastically lacking their achievments as a nation are despite being very numerous
It's irrelevant how numerous your nation is, what counts is how numerous your middle class is. Poles were historically a nation of peasants and peasants don't innovate obviously. Middle class in Poland was always predominantly of German and Jewish origin.

>>212891254
This is a rusnigger VPN hivrat that cuckposts every day here btw

>>212891254
Your mother is a russian whore with hiv

Cuckpost fake shit about jeets you nigger

Came here to say my daily fuck poles and poland. Thank you and have a nice weekend! Ačiū.

>>212890583
>>212890993
>>212890886
insane ukro cope post

your shithole will never matter and you will forever be stuck in finland as a refugee ivan

>>212889940
We are improving it, despite not having the advantage of bordering Germany and having to deal with the giant shizoempire to the east.

>>212892031
do you call losing 12 million people and 1/3 of your economy improvement AHAHHAHAHAHHAHA oh also like 1/4 of your territory KEK xDDDDDDDD
>despite not having the advantage of bordering Germany
stop being a nazi and maybe thing will improve

>>212883625
>Hohols and browns completely unironically believe that one day and out of nowhere, Brussels decided to give Poland 300 gorillion euros for free
Gets me every time
And then hohols hit the wall of countless reforms and 10 year accesion plans and seethe on social media because they thought they could join overnight and be flooded with countless billions for Goybergovich and Ebevdenko to steal. Not so fast, hoholsisters.

>>212892090
>>212892111
kek true ukro act 100% like russians

>>212881446 (OP)
idiots like this never understand that all the ancient grey statues used to have color. all the old dilapidated and smut covered buildings, used to be clean and colorful. you'd probably prefer the depressive brutalist style

>>212891942
thinking someone is ukrainian because they heavily dislike the polish attitude, which is just ukraine but half that is amazing

>>212892255
ancient greek statues used to have color
but that didnt last long and it has been without color for most of its history when mimicking the greeco-roman architecture

>>212892287
i think your ukrainian because only ukro think deepthroating goymany = western

you are 100% ukranian mykola btw when are you going back to your country?

>>212891040
Most people are not delusional schizos like on /int/, statements like "We're richer than Japan cuz muh gdp!" are either treated as ridiculous propaganda or just result in a chuckle. People see how it is because they live it everyday. Which arguably is not true for a lot of poles on /int/ that seem to be encapsulated in a very weird bubble, or just the schizo delusions hit them too hard - you always get a % of people like that.
Imho a big % of poles on 4chan are unironically paid shills, often not even from Poland. Plenty of evidence for that.

>>212892438
vpn off ivan

>We're richer than Japan cuz muh gdp
also how can you argue with pure statistics retard?

>>212890958
Russia poured tens of billions of dollars over the decades to finance parties and politicians that would push their interests here, hello? And I'm not even talking about all the economic warfare they have been pursuing and still do.

Fat nigger aids

>>212892475
>vpn off ivan
Silence dog.
>also how can you argue with pure statistics retard?
If you're a clueless retard this will seem legit to you, as anything else - part of the definition of being a clueless retard.
GDP doesn't mean richer.
If you pump real estate prices into oblivion so the population can not afford them anymore, this increases GDP, which in turn lets you increase national debt and government spending which also raises GDP. You effectively increase GDP by making the population poorer today, and in the future when they have to pay for it.

Not that any of this matters to an inbred dog retard.

>>212892547
i am sure they only did to ukraine

stop being retarded your country is a failure worse than kazahstan because of ukranians

>>212892608
cope harder ivan russia will forever be a shithole

It appears that my superiority has led to some controversy

>>212892639
>everyone that doesn't agree with absolutely retarded propaganda for brainlets is a russian
Back into the kennel dog.

>>212892714
seethe harder rusdog

>>212892713
why aren't you in dobass

>>212883625
Truke

this thread proves why ukros will forever be poor and a non country

>>212892031
Bordering Germany is a curse, not advantage.

>>212893736
is this why the parts of your country which were german are the richest?

>>212893838
warsaw is the richest

also poland is the only country that doesn't border germany in v4 we border GDR

>>212883625
kek it do be like that

>>212893970
this nigga is a gypsy from romania xD