So how did communism in the Soviet Union work?
Everything was free but you had to stand in line for 3 hours to get a load of bread? How did people get paid? And how did they explain the wealthy pezzonovante like generals and politicians when everybody was supposed to be equal comrades?

>>212898108 (OP)
Basically a lot of welfare
They still used normal money

All comunists should be shot in sight after a fair trial. If anyone ever insinuates a slightly socialist opinion you should immediately bash his face in after properly justified by the law of the land. Total communist slaughter according to the rule of law.

>>212898266
yeah because it's the communists that are bringing immigrants in to your country so the green line can keep going up
everything your complaining about is capitalism's fault but you'd rather blame DA JEEEWZZ or communism

>>212898108 (OP)
Soviets sed to come over the border and buy stuff here using crates of vodka because the ruble was fucking worthless

>>212898108 (OP)
The only time when Russia and eastern Europe was not a shithole, relatively speaking

>>212898396
you're*

>>212898396
>>212898430
Guilty.

>>212898396
Amen brother, although the immigrant argument is a bit redundant since "worker" is the only identity that commies propose irrespective of race, also look up what happened after moscow olympics/People's Friendship University when BBC invaded Soviet Union

>>212898108 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/@UshankaShow

I like this channel for an average person's view on things.

It's a guy born in 1971 so he was able to remember at least the pre-Gorby era a little. His classmates were some of the to actually be conscripted into the Soviet Army, he dodged it by bad eyesight and making it into university.

Of course, he's Ukrainian so he makes hyper ziggers seethe regardless, but I think he's pretty objective about things. He praises what was good, he points out things that were terrible.

>>212898494
funnily enough i'm not a commie
but are you going to refute anything that i said?

>>212898108 (OP)
>Everything was free but you had to stand in line for 3 hours to get a load of bread?

>>212898562
Anyway, to sum up what his views on it are (and shared by most tbf), he reiterates that basically everyone was equal but that also means equally poor. The top-top nomenklatura were a class of their own, but for everyone else, you suffered the same.

You had to work. Not working was a crime and you could be arrested/ sent to labour camps for it. Housing was cheap and supplied to you but mostly very poor quality, and shared housing was also common. Things like cars were waiting lists for 10 years. By the 70s-80s basic foodstuffs were always available, breadlines were a thing of the Stalin/Khrushchev era, but specialty items would come and go. Things like eating at restaurants was almost impossible to afford.

>>212898710
So that was the haul? Non ce male, but if shit was free why did they need money

>>212898784
Per month yes.

>Everything was free but you had to stand in line for 3 hours to get a load of bread?
Here in the Philippines we fall in line for 3 hours while paying

>>212898824
Per MONTH?? Madonna Santa, 2 bars of soap a month. Che puzz'

>>212898762
Id wait ten years for a free car

>>212898396
>it's the communists that are bringing
uhhhh yes?

>>212898857
LMAO
God bless you Flupbro

>>212898859
>free car
No, you paid for it too. But when cars cost $10k and you're making $100/month, it takes a while.
I believe they had funds where you (or your employer on your behalf) would put money aside for it each month.

Bernie Sanders says bread lines are good

>>212898910
So did everyone else take the bus? We're there even busses?

>>212898934
Bernie Sanders talks a whole lot of nonsense. Nevertheless, he's the only politician that seems to be against billionaires

>>212898859
>Per MONTH??
Yes. Bare minimum all the time, no vitamins, no fresh food. There's a reason communism always failed.
And that was all you got. Apartment, transport and everything else you had to pay for. Extra expensive because communism so you couldn't afford it anyway.
So 12 packs of ciggs, 0,5l of vodka, some bread and that was it. Enjoy your single drunk night and suffer the rest.

>>212898622
Leftists colaborate with big capital to bring thirdies because they see them as an opressed class and race-mixing as a way to end nationalism and racism. Leftists in the west have a more open borders policy than anyone, this is true in Spain, in Sweden or in the US with Biden allowing 14 million illegals to pour through the border in 4 years. Both are guilty. Mass migration as a phenomena of capitalism is the most retarded meme ever anyway, the fraction of capital that benefits from such unskilled labor is so small it's irrelevant, in Spain we have 2 million migrants WHO DO NOT WORK AT ALL, the same in most western countries, it's all a genuine miscegenation plot to further globalization, when you have a nation where the average citizen is a rootless mutt the idea of nationalism becomes absurd and they are eager to embrace supranational entities. Why would a moroccan-chinese mutt living in France care about Charles Martel and preserving French identity?

>>212899018
>Biden
>Leftist
stopped reading right there
you have no idea what you're talking about

>>212898998
Who thought this was vhdpwa good idea???

>>212898396
Literally left wingers are the biggest defenders, advocates and apologizers of mass migration lol

>>212898108 (OP)
It worked until it didn't. The 3hours lines and empty stores came later, when the system was collapsing.

>>212898396
In the west both the neoliberal capitalists and communists want open borders.
Which is why we need a third way.

>>212899328
>left wingers
Liberals aren't the same as communists or socialists.

It would be like saying fascists support Israel because conservatives suck Bibi's cock.

The economy was planned meaning, mistakes in the planning process could had resulted in artificial scarcity, not due to resource scarcity per se but due to the planners not taking into account real necessities


The issue was that those who planned it were bureaucrats above society. This was a result of the stalinist political counter revolution which took power from the soviet councils.

Meaning that while the economy had a working class nature (nationalized means of production/planned economy) the political apparatus was petty petty bourgeois/anti workers.

Such discrepancy made impossible to plan an economy correctly

An economy planned directly by workers councils would mean that the economy would be planned according to true social needs in real time thus no scarcity

>>212898108 (OP)
It's pointless to try and give an honest answer but I'll try anyway
>Everything was free
no. But basic necessities were quite cheap compared to income (negative is that there's ONE type of bread, ONE type of laundry detergent etc. If it sucks, fuck you). A common fallacy among retarded leftoid westerners is thinking that apartments were free. They fucking weren't. You paid in advance and then got on a list, waited 15 years and you got one. Similar with cars
>but you had to stand in line for 3 hours to get a load of bread
this is only in the worst years, it wasn't the norm. You DID stand in line forever once an "exotic" product was briefly in stock, like olives and bananas.
>How did people get paid?
generally you're assigned to work somewhere according to your education (sometimes in bumfuck nowhere) and you get a salary from the government. You needed party connections to get a cozy spot
>And how did they explain the wealthy pezzonovante like generals and politicians when everybody was supposed to be equal comrades?
they didn't have to explain shit because questioning this would send you to jail

>>212899225
Leftism is a metapolitical term. The current mass migration phenomena answers more to a Popperian view of the world than from a purely materialistic capitalist angle. Yes, there is a "conspiracy", it has been cooking for decades, Karl Popper, Derrida and many other philosophers talked about it, the need to mix societies to end the scourge of nationalism and racism. Anyway, you will believe whatever you want.

>>212899480
>they didn't have to explain shit because questioning this would send you to jail

Figured

>>212899328
the same "left wingers" who have and to this day keep pouring non-stop anti-communist propaganda into former soviet countries and are currently funding militants in ukraine flying black sun flags, yeah those "left wingers"
also aren't europeans literally banning communist parties in their countries now?

>>212898108 (OP)
Morning in CCCP. A huge yellow barrel full of beer starting it's shift. A man comes to the merchant and asks:
-"How much is the whole barrel?"
-"A glass of beer is 0.3 rub each, there are 200 liters. 120 rub is for all"
Man pays 120 rub and tells a merchant to leave. Then he starts giving free beer to the strangers. Soon a queue gathers, people swear, push, a fight begins somewhere in the crowd, someone got stomped, someone stabbed. Police appears, handcuffs the man and start interrogation.
-"Did you stole this barrel, you drunktard?"
-"No, I paid for it with my own money, ask the merchant"
-"Ah, you tried to resell it for profit, you filthy speculant"
-"No, ask the mob, I treated them for free"
-"Well, you're working for western intelligence then, trying to make fun of our glorious country and put it in a bad light?"
-"No, I'm a big patriot of CCCP, and a war hero"
-"WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS THEN?"
-"Look, I'm an old man, I'm afraid I won't live long enough until communism will be finally build. But I just wanted to see how would it be."

>>212899421
both conservatives and liberals by american standars are pro-status quo though.
but yeah i agree with you, a third way is needed.

>>212898984
>rich man against those richer than him

>>212899480
Thanks for the explanation
I too thought the free apartment thing.

What about medical expense, and welfare like school, university, kindergarten? From my little knowledge those were the aspect were socialists and communist countries were sometimes better than their western counterparts

>>212899558
Cool post

>>212899810
https://youtu.be/I44SjqBZbiE

You'd like this, though it's about East Germany.

Commodity scarcity cant happen in capitalism because the capitalist mode of production depends on the anarchy of production

Capitalism is production for production's sake for the enrichment of the capitalist (M-C-M')

In socialist economies it can happen WHEN the political form doesnt correspond to the economical form.

This is what happened in the USSR; the stalinist bureaucracy was in opposition to the soviet working class. Meaning, the economic planning had no social basis

>>212899810
>medical expense
I hate commies but the fact is medical services were MILES better back in the day. Like now, they had universal healthcare but unlike now, there were doctors everywhere, not just in the 3 biggest cities.
>school, university, kindergarten
I'd say school was generally better because kids were much more disciplined. You'd get the shit kicked out of you if you spat at a teacher or similar shit kids do now. But they were also poisoning your mind with propaganda. Same with humanitarian studies in uni. But STEM was kept on a pedestal and it's a fact that we produced amazing professionals in some STEM fields. There is still some inertia from that today, ex commie cunts like Romania and Bulgaria still over-perform in the math Olympiad for example

>>212898866
It's stupid to blame communists for mass migration. Capitalists are doing that. But National Socialism is needed.

>>212899995
Calling capitalists the socialdemocrats who tax 55% of your salary is adventurous to say the least.

>>212899995
no fascist (and i'm talking about real fascists) or a communist (actual leftists) would ever be let anywhere near actual power in a first world capitalist country.
like i said before conservatives and liberals (social democrats included) are all pro-status quo, and thus included in the annual democracy festival.

>>212900044
social democracy is the most capitalistic ideology of them all

Honestly, the USSR was the peak of human civilization free healthcare, education, housing, and guaranteed jobs, all while the decadent West was busy exploiting workers and destroying the planet.

Sure, they had lines, but that just proves how much people wanted to live under real equality instead of capitalist greed. The Soviet Union showed the world that a society based on sharing and solidarity actually works, unlike the endless chaos of capitalism.

Anyone who mocks it clearly hasn’t lived through systemic exploitation or is blinded by Western propaganda. Real comrades know that the USSR was the only true attempt at saving humanity from itself, and those "failures" are just jealous lies spread by imperialists.

>>212898984
And if he were a billionaire he'd be against trillionaires.

>>212900143
i'd argue anarchocapitalism to be more capitalistic than half-communism-democracy but fine

>>212900044
>Calling capitalists the socialdemocrats who tax 55% of your salary is adventurous to say the least.


Social democrats only want to tame down the capital's insatiable thirst of surplus value. They dont want to bring down capital. They can only be considered capitalists and nothing more.

>>212898108 (OP)
>So how did communism in the Soviet Union work
It didn't.

>>212900157
none of that was free, everything was paid with the sweat of an opressed working class, also no one contaminated more than the USSR, they even destroyed the Aral Sea

>>212900182
this is what chatgpt said to me
>social democracy is often seen as a compromise between capitalism and socialism, but in reality, it’s the most ideologically capitalist model of all because it doesn’t challenge capitalism—it perfects it. unlike laissez-faire capitalism, which leaves markets unchecked and vulnerable to collapse under their own excesses, social democracy recognizes that capitalism needs guardrails to survive. it uses regulation, taxation, and welfare not to dismantle the market system, but to stabilize and legitimize it.

>>212900143
That's a very recent phenomenon. De Gaulle and Attlee were very big on social democracy and I don't think anyone can call them turbocapitalists.

>>212900211
>>212900241
@grok is this true???

>>212900245

Not recent phenomena.

Remember, it was the social democrats who supported the first imperialist war (aka so called ww1).

They are capitalist through and through. They just want a corporate state that administers the surplus values and get rid of the individual capitalists.

>>212900236
Yeah, the USSR wasn't perfect, it crushed dissent and wrecked the environment.

BUT! don’t act like Western capitalism is some innocent saint. It enslaves workers, destroys ecosystems faster than anyone, and pumps out endless propaganda about <freedom> while feeding billionaires.

At least the USSR tried to build a society where people mattered more than profits, not like this soulless capitalist hellscape that’s leaving the planet to burn. So before throw stones about Soviet failures, look in the mirror and admit F**kin <democracy> is just a sham serving the richest 1%

The planet is burning and all capitalism's <freedom> buys you is a cubicle and lifetime rent

>>212900415
The Kaiser was not a social democrat, Britain was controlled by Tories and Liberals, and France was always going to reclaim its lost territories regardless of ideology.

>>212898108 (OP)
>So how did communism in the Soviet Union work?
It didn’t work. People starved and the whole system came crashing down in the end

>>212898266
Based

>>212898396
Commies are the ones pushing open borders. Market capitalism doesn’t mean mass migration. For decades capitalist countries had sensible immigration policies. Mass migration is a recent phenomenon caused by globalist/leftists

>>212899225
Biden is absolutely a leftist

>>212900157
If you think the Soviet Union was so great you should go to North Korea

>>212901023
>Market capitalism doesn’t mean mass migration
lmao what?

Capitalism is a Jewish scam just like Communism. It sees humans as economic units and flooding the country with blacks/pajeets is beneficial as they drop the cost of labour.

>>212901116
North Korea isn’t communist, it’s a dynastic authoritarian regime using Marxist imagery as a cosplay.

I think you aleady know, Real communism doesn’t pass down power like a royal bloodline. If anything, North Korea is closer to a feudal cult than a planned economy.

Comparing the USSR to North Korea is like comparing a university to a cargo cult that stole its textbooks one tried, failed, and taught the world something. The North Korea just mimics the banners without the substance.

>>212900157
I don't know man, I am suspicious of the entire premise of Marxist-Leninism, that the vanguard of the proletariat (the party) should take all the power to promote the revolution and at some later unspecified date (lol) return the power to the people

>>212901067
and you are absolutely a dumbfuck

>>212899328
uhhh bro right wing or "moderate" politicians and business owners (same thing often) benefit immensely from unchecked immigration and always push it
that's not to say that lefist parties don't also push it but that's because they're retarded not because they're evil

>>212898108 (OP)
Every society has people and companies that produce things and people and companies who want to buy goods and services. The fundamental difference was that the market had a lot of restrictions and everything was owned by the state.

>Everything was free
Nothing was free. People had salaries but there were no taxes as it was deducted already.
>How did people get paid?
Cash like in most countries at the time

It was lethally inefficient but it was not like that different. The fundamental market rules apply to all kinds of economies

>>212898108 (OP)
>Everything was free but you had to stand in line for 3 hours to get a load of bread?
No. You were paid money that you had to use in the store. But the prices were set by a bunch of bureaucrats in Moscow rather than actually adapting to demand so basic necessities were priced below market value and thus got sold on a first come-first served basis until the store ran out.
>>212898152
What welfare? You have a completely misguided understanding of communism. It was a total command economy. Prices were arbitrary and had no relation to market value. The government simply said that X item will be produced in Y amount and sold at Z cost. That's it.

There were free services like healthcare and such, and the government made sure that people weren't actually starving, but there was barely any welfare in the modern western sense. There was mandatory employment, so everyone had at least a basic salary to draw on, and housing was provided by the employer, so homelessness wasn't really a thing (it was a crime anyway so worst case you simply went to gulag which is technically housing)

>>212901449
>Real communism
if a rain dance fails to bring about rain, is it not a real rain dance?

>>212902235
no it's just mental retardation

>>212898108 (OP)
>And how did they explain the wealthy pezzonovante like generals and politicians when everybody was supposed to be equal comrades?
It was not completely binary like you think. It was not just commie blocks being built. There were still better and wealthier neighborhoods even during communism. You needed connections and exploit the loops

>>212901843
The Soviet Union didn’t represent pure communism. II never claimed it was perfect, I merely said it was peaks of civilization ever created up to this day. True equality among all humans is impossible with current technology. This isn’t about ideology or human nature. It’s about energy.

To free humans from labor, you need something else to work in their place which means massive amounts of materials and, more importantly, energy. And while we can obtain enough materials to some extent, the energy crisis remains unsolved. (That would require nuclear fusion.)

An energy revolution must occur to solve this. Yes, human history has gone through the agricultural revolution, scientific revolution, industrial revolution, and information revolution to reach capitalism, but if an energy revolution is added to this, true communism where everyone is equal and humans are liberated from labor will be realized.

Once humanity achieves an energy revolution beyond the agricultural, industrial, and informational revolutions we will finally be able to realize true communism: a system where labor is unnecessary and all can live in dignity.

So no, communism isn’t the opposite of capitalism! It’s the next stage, the <<<final evolution of civilization>>>

>>212898108 (OP)
I think the Soviet economy would work much better with today's technology if only it had the chance to last this long.

>>212899328
Both sides support immigration. There should be a third option.

>>212901023
>Market capitalism doesn’t mean mass migration.
You are the stupidest retard in this /pol/ thread, which is impressive.

it was different in every country
where i come from food was always plenty, atleast after the retarded stalinists were ejected
people got paid like now, you had a salary
being unemployed was a crime, because if you wanted to work you got a job, you were delegated to places, go there, work, thats it

the privileged werent that privileged, they had a volga instead of a trabant, a bigger house instead of a commieblock, but most of the time that wasnt theres, it was the parties, however you did own your shit, so ppl werent so upset about it
rightoids retards cannot comprehend that the left wing now is gone and destroyed, what you have created for yourself is liberals mascing themselfs are "leftists"
things werent free, yea you didnt need to pay for healthcare or education, but you payed taxes
it was more equal than before and now