Thread 213576472

>>213576472 (OP)
Average person here thinks that the side effects of capitalism are communism and has never read a single book on economics in their lives and never will

venezuela, cuba and some gay shit

There has been an increasing interest in marxism since 2018. This is reflected by the fact that a social-democratic government (at least nominally) won by an overwhelming margin in the 2018 & 2024 elections

Revolutionary party & movements takes years, sometimes even decades to forms, but the masses can radicalize in a matter of months or days

as an actual communist I would say that the vast majority is neutral, the media likes to remind everyone how horrible the Soviet Union was, how nobody liked it, how everyone fought against it and how those who didn't were just afraid
they even said that iShowSpeed coming to Lithuania is apparently a sign of the death of Soviet mentality

Communism is when the gubmint does stuff. So public education and free healthcare and regulations on the market are communism.

>>213576472 (OP)
it's shit and I hate it

A communist dictatorship would have been so much better for my country than the military dictatorship controlled by the USA like we had in the past, at least favelas wouldn't be such problems like it is today

>>213576658
>as an actual communist
What's wrong with you?

>>213576658
>as an actual communist
go drown in a swamp

>>213576797
doesn't seem like your country has benefited from capitalism

>>213576797
Not everyone has benefitted from the neoliberal wave of the 80s onward. A lot of millennials were openly sympathetic of socialism after the 2008 global crash and zoomers are openly embracing radical ideologies, including Marxism, now that they are old enough to realize how fucked they are in the long term

>>213576797
>flag
you were literally the soviets bro

>>213576837
You can literally still see the Iron Curtain on any GDP or quality of life map of Europe

Communism and socialism are slowly coming back after being discredited after the fall of the USSR

>>213576472 (OP)
very positively

Modern day "communists" have nothing to do with workers rights and just consist of two variants.

>brown kill whitey Third Worldists
>tranny cultists

>>213577001
The new left movement of the 60s subverted the focus on class among western communists, the only people that still care about class and workers' rights first and foremost are the "tankies" and le racist stalinists that liberals bitch and moan about

>>213576797
>What's wrong with you?
He isn't a bootlicker of Rotschilds.

>>213577001
Name a single political party or organization in America that actually cares or does anything about workers rights

>>213576701
>Communism is when the gubmint does stuff. So public education and free healthcare and regulations on the market are communism.


The most advanced capitalist state actually become state-capitalist.

Engels once argumented that the bourgeoisie is not even neccesary anymore. The whole of society can be run like a private equity company without the need of individual capitalist.

I can see some form of corporate-socialist market system in the West, in order to applacate the masses. This will be held as a "socialist" economy, but commodity exchange and law of value would still persist.

>>213576472 (OP)
nobody even knows what communism should or is supposed to be

people just remember "grass was greener" or the opposite "long queues for basic groceries"

>>213577158
that is functionally the case with some 'social democratic' countries which have state run corporations
the same relations remain, but the state becomes the abstract capitalist

The Soviet Union of the 1920s and 30s was the best thing that has ever happened to the American worker. The majority of our rights were obtained when the economy went to shit and feared American workers embracing Bolshevism since it had worked for the Soviets. China is cool and all but things will literally never get better without a belligerent socialist state that can form a counterbalance of any kind.

>>213576472 (OP)
Communism here is a thing for boomers particularly if they're Gascon or Breton for some reason. You'll find plenty of communist parties everywhere and they're all old people because gommunism was super popular among the generation of '68.

The notion that communism is a thing for deluded young blue-haired leftists is an American phenomenon that doesn't apply here

>>213576472 (OP)
I have a very articulate opinion on the matter.
It can't be adequately expressed in a short post on 4chan.

>>213577001
>implying old school commies cared about workers right
lmao

In Spain they've always been a very noisy minority, but a minority nonetheless. The PCE (Spain's main communist party), at its peak, didn't even reach 15% of the vote. Today, the hammer-and-sickle communists are a rara avis; the majority left here is pure wokism.

>>213577224
>nobody even knows what communism should or is supposed to be

That should not be a surprise.

Stalinism was in fact a counter-revolution. Its historical task was to put a gigantic brake on the working class. Yet, the political basis for stalinism resided in the nationalized & planned economy, thats why he had to overthrow capitalism in Eastern Europe. Not for the plight of the workers, but because his political caste depended on it.


The mummification of Lenin was an expression of stalinist counter-revolutionary behaviour. He turned the proletariat revolution into symbols & statues, petrifying it.

>>213576837
>doesn't seem like your country has benefited from capitalism
I don't have to wait in fucking line to buy toilet paper for starter? The stuff I buy actually works? I can choose what sources of information and entertainment to consume? I can actually travel wherever I want to, without needing a special KGB permission to do so and be trailed all the time? I can give you a dozen other reasons off the top of my head, but I hope you get my point.
>>213576858
People from countries that never had to experience the "joys of socialism" don't know how lucky they are.
>>213576862
nice ragebait, have a (You)

>>213577482
>PCE
His current president is Peter Griffin BTW.

>>213577556
>I don't have to wait in fucking line to buy toilet paper for starter?
true, cashiers are thrown to the streets and left unemployed, now you can use self checkout machines! how cool is that?
>The stuff I buy actually works?
I have old Soviet things that still work very well
>I can choose what sources of information and entertainment to consume?
is that so, when 99% of all media constantly repeat capitalist, elitist, bourgeois propaganda, from TV shows to books? what you can choose to consume is what is produced, and they determine what is produced
>I can actually travel wherever I want to, without needing a special KGB permission to do so and be trailed all the time?
you don't need permission because they already know where you are, 24/7 based on cell tower triangulation and the massive amounts of data they have on you

Forgot the picture (drunk now).

>>213577556
>can actually travel wherever I want to
You can't unless you're a hohlina.

>>213577150
The Republican Party

>>213577716
wtf is that

>>213576472 (OP)
Very negatively these days. 50 years ago it was popular though.

>>213577671
>true, cashiers are thrown to the streets and left unemployed, now you can use self checkout machines! how cool is that?
They can work at MacDonald's instead, for all I care. That's unlike the ussr, where you couldn't even really quit or even change your job without considerable struggles.
>I have old Soviet things that still work very well
That radio on your table?
>is that so, when 99% of all media constantly repeat capitalist, elitist, bourgeois propaganda, from TV shows to books? what you can choose to consume is what is produced, and they determine what is produced
There exist roughly 170 million other books aside from Kapital, you know. I can choose to ready any one of them if I wanted to. Besides, even if "they", aren't interested in your works, you can just self-publish, there are countless opportunities to do so in the free world, you know.
>you don't need permission because they already know where you are, 24/7 based on cell tower triangulation and the massive amounts of data they have on you
I was talking about physical travel within and out of the country, anon.

>>213577933
Is it like Russia where it's still popular amongst boomers?

>>213577769
>achieves highest number of job layoffs since 2020

>>213577975
No, but there are some very old people still in it. It was just a popular thing back in the day and many of the political types even adopted right wing ideas after the fad was over.

>>213577275

Any sources on that?

I think people saw Russia as poor ass niggers and their influence was neglible.

>>213577958
>There exist roughly 170 million other books aside from Kapital, you know. I can choose to ready any one of them if I wanted to. Besides, even if "they", aren't interested in your works, you can just self-publish, there are countless opportunities to do so in the free world, you know.

Did people in soviet countries actually read Kapital? I somehow doubt that. The intellectual class must have been either very small or they were dumbass slow in the head workers.

Anti capitalist ideology like that of Marx only really works if you lived in capitalism.

>>213578531
>Did people in soviet countries actually read Kapital? I somehow doubt that. The intellectual class must have been either very small or they were dumbass slow in the head workers.
>Anti capitalist ideology like that of Marx only really works if you lived in capitalism.
This was taught in soviet universities as mandatory discipline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_communism

There is a reason ussr was a called totalitarian - the soviet state and it's ideology was all-encompassing and omnipresent in every aspect of human existence from birth to death. What do you think happened to people who were dissatisfied or were too inquisitive for their own good?

>>213576472 (OP)
Teenagers and mental teenagers think it's this utopian idea that has never been tried. Boomers were propagandized into hating it more than anything.

The middle gens are divided on it. Personally, I think America's strength is individualism. Even if utopian ideal communism could be achieved, (big risk, big IF), I don't think America is a good testbed for it. I think the American experiment and it's constitutional democracy should continue. Let the Chinese or whatever do their communism thing. I think it suits their race better than ours.

That's why it'll never work here.

Our universities are crawling with Marxists. Humanities departments like sociology are full blown mask off Marxists. Going down that rabbit hole revealed a think-tank, the "Frankfurt school". I read their stuff and their argument is actually the same as mine, that Americans simply will not take to communism. Their solution however, was to kill and impoverish all of us, or just ruin our lives trying.
American communists understand what they're doing but they've "lost the plot" at the same time. Their intentions aren't to help thru socialism but to cripple us with chaos and disorder.
Post-modernism, critical race theory, critical gender theory. It's a bunch of disingenuous bullshit and they know it but they push it endlessly anyway. Everyone in the Frankfurt school is Jewish in case you didn't know.

>>213577382
This. communists do one thing and say another. This is how they operate. Naturally it causes a ton of confusion.
>>213577482
Neo-marxist theory taught it's disciples to create wokeism (critical theory is mostly about race and gender confusion) woke-ists act as a sort of vanguard. Useful idiots. Thankfully, their decades-long plans are sort of falling apart. wokeism never found it's way back to full blown communism before it started dying off.

>>213576837
Werent ukrainians (and cossacks who are de facto ukrainians) literally genocided by commies lmao

Unrealistic (just like every utopian philosophy)
The people who support it imc are very very very very very very soy and should be sent to gulag right now

>>213578889

Marxists actually reject post modernism because it's not materialist.

People want gibbies. Not gender theory.

>>213578889
>Personally, I think America's strength is individualism.
America is a collectivist society. Nothing about it is individualist. People eat the same fast food, enjoy the same media, develop a following for one of the two feasible political parties, pay taxes to fund the biggest military in the world, have loyalty towards huge brands, defend an upper class that is perceived as gifted, pledge loyalty to a document detailing the state's purpose, etc. Even the name is literally "united states" because the US is not individualist enough. The US is a superstate by definition.
America's power comes from its collectivism. It would cease to be relevant globally without it. Things like "critical gender theory" are peak individualism.

>>213578987
Marxism is explicitly opposed to utopian socialism

>>213580479
The premise of marxism (classless society attained through a revolution /namely a subversion of the productive structures in favour of a new one/ of the pre existing productive model) is a utopian take on what would happen in the hypothetical the result of a proletarian control over the means of production happened.
If you abolish class which marxists root as the basis of productive relations you would retain different competitive variables such as perceived physical differences which are phenotypica traits in active competition for labour they use directed to their own reproduction

Capitalism is nothing but commodification and commodification is simply redirecting labour towards the reproduction of consumption goods.
This labour would however, otherwise, be directed towards the reproduction of biological traits or any other self-replicating characters

>>213576472 (OP)
I had an old high school teacher that had us write a paper on why social and communism are bad. I quoted Liberty Prime from Fallout 3. I wrote:
>“COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE” - L. Prime
And she underlined it in red and wrote “so true.” Basically was the opposite of pic related.

>>213580479
>the reason as to why mankind is selfish is cuz uhhhh le capitalism even doe capitalism is like a few hundred years old at best oder so
>we will get rid of literally everything and we wont totally be conquered by our neighbors oder so

>>213580699
>>213580741
Marx and Engels outwardly rejected utopian socialism and you would know that if you actually read books instead of acting like retards online

>>213580809
Marx posited that after class is abolished primitive communism comes.

>>213580870
No he didn't you fucking monkey, his entire on thesis on primitive communism had to do with hunter-gather societies that hadn't even reached the ancient mode of production where slavery was commonplace such as ancient Athens