Thread 213592820

on this day 30 years ago serb clitty was destroyed

they have never recovered from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm

>>213592820 (OP)
>>213592864
I've never met a young adult croat or serb that hates each other.

>>213593501
lol i've met plenty

>>213593565
If diaspora sure, disaporas are internationally retarded.

>>213593501
I have a good Serb friend, we send each other nationalist memes and war songs for the lulz. We both tend to hold our side in the war issues, he for instance believes the shelling of Dubrovnik was partially justified, but we never go too far with it.

Thankfully Croatia is now importing Nepali glovo engineers to increase their population after ethnically cleansing their own citizens and losing another million to Irish and German plumbing companies.

>>213596323
yeah and you are about to import 100k workers from Ghana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTio_0rwR1s

Your army murdered one Danish and two Czech soldiers, and used seven Danish soldiers as human shields
>>>/his/17905880

>>213596323
To be fair there are Croatian human rights groups who speak out against this shit and commemorate it. I've communicated with the Croatian Helsinki Committee for Human Rights (HHO) in order to get old reports, and they're helpful guys.

There are even protests there right now by Croatians over this shit,
https://balkaninsight.com/2025/08/04/croatia-protesters-demand-recognition-of-operation-storm-war-crimes/

t. not even a Serb but was born during Operation Flash. The fact that the murderers of the Vuković children have walked free for my entire life after having killed them around the time of my birth makes me feel intense negative emotions. EVERYONE should know about the Medari massacre.

Why did Serbia give up Montenegro and access to the sea without any problem when most of the population was south slavic and orthodox?
But chimped out at Kosovo wich had no strategic value and is full of albanian muslims?

>>213596884
Montenegrins didn't start attacking Serbs. Kosovans did.

>>213593501
I'm a zoomer. My best friend from elementary school who I see every week is a Serb, and I'm also still good with another one. Over half of my class we're Bosnians (all ethnicities) and from Serb families from Croatia and Serbia. These people were raised here and don't follow Serbian state propaganda so they're okay. However they picked up some weird lingo and music tastes from their families which can be annoying.
Expansionists, balkan chimps and the mafia that will slit the throats of civilians then cry victim for decades after being retaliated against deserve no mercy. In fact they should be hit so hard that they are broken for all eternity, the trauma engraved in their DNA like Germans and Japs after WW2 so that they never get the idea of going to war again. This country including Croatian Serbs would be so much richer and better off if they didn't chimp out that it makes my blood boil.

It had to be done
We would have a donbass situation here if we didnt clean them
But past is past serbs can live here freely and safely now

>>213597189
>after being retaliated against
What did the Vuković children do to deserve "retaliation" in Medari?
What did the mentally disabled and elderly do to deserve "retaliation" at Dvor?
You whitewash your own unjustifiable crimes, and act as though there was no reason for the Serbs to have been concerned, despite Tudjman having been an open Holocaust denier who used Ustaše imagery and appointed multiple Ustaše veterans to government positions (Vinko Nikolić given a seat in parliament, Nijaz Batlak Daidža (aka Mate Šarlija) made a general in the Croatian army, and Dubrovnik Ivo Rojnica nearly made ambassador to Argentina before international pressure stopped that), with WWII only having ended 50 years prior. They were closer to WWII in 1992 than we are to the Vietnam War in 2025.

>>213597484
You ARE the Donbass, my dude.

>>213597517
shut the fuck up lmao
you lost
killing civilians is unjustifiable though and i agree but it has been done by both sides

>>213597517
also tudjman was literally an antifascist and former communist

>>213597598
>you lost
Not Serb, see >>213596836
>but it has been done by both sides
But Serbs have largely been prosecuted for it while your government has shielded your perpetrators. The Medari massacre was barbaric and it's perpetrators have been free men my entire life, while the only two survivors (the Vuković sisters, two orphans who were little girls at the time) had their house foreclosed for trying to seek legal justice, because your courts determined it was "collateral damage" for your soldiers to run amok in a village with no armed opposition anywhere nearby and just massacred the remaining inhabitants.

>>213597688
He was still objectively a Holocaust denier and still appointed Ustaše veterans (see examples I provided)
He claimed only 900,000 Jews were killed in the Holocaust in his 1989 book 'Bespuća povijesne zbiljnosti'

>>213597747
no justice is perfect
there are mass graves being found around vukovar every month also some serb war criminals are walking freely in serbia
what can i do history is history
tudjman is a schizo and is not liked by everyone in croatia equally

>>213597517
>Ustaše
>WW2
There it is again, fuck off. My family was oppressed and starved by Italian and German fascists, something that happened all across Europe, but Serbs are one of the rare breeds of retards that use it as a reason to start fighting again half a century after the war.
>why did Croatian soldiers commit crime in the 90s
Because it's war? I won't deny that individuals from the Croatian side committed war crimes but did Serbian rebels really expect to get 5 star hotel treatment after what they did?
>>213596712
>Croats killed some people of other ethnicities
Serbs cleansed villages of all non-Serbs in Krajina after the war including Hungarians and Czechs. NATO and their soldiers should have fucked off, they did us more damage than good. I don't deny nor do I need to justify crimes Croatian soldiers did.
Look at our current borders and how shit they are because we lost land to Turks and their Serbian settlers, some of you literally say we should have given even more of Croatia like Krajina to entitled Serbs, how about they fuck off? And how come there are no more Croats in Posavina in Republika Srpska? No one talks about this it's just Serbs, Serbs. This country still has mausoleums for Serbian war criminals in Vukovar and Serbian murderers still live next to the families of their victims there while I'm supposed to believe we Croats had purposely genocides Serbs from Croatia.
We just want to be left alone and have our country.

>>213597976
>also some serb war criminals are walking freely in serbia
I think we can agree that Serb war criminals have faced more thorough prosecution than Croatian ones, no?

>what can i do history is history
As shown in my other post, there were active protests in Zagreb four days ago about this shit. You can speak out about it and raise awareness. It's "history," but history that only happened 30 years ago. I'm not sure if you're the same guy who said you're a zoomer, but I was born around the time the Vuković family was massacred. The Vuković sisters still have to live with their entire family being killed and no justice being sought.

>tudjman is a schizo and is not liked by everyone in croatia equally
I mentioned Tudjman due to one of you acting as if there was no reason for the Croatian Serbs to "chimp out."
Picture this hypothetical scenario; 50 years ago Serbs exterminated ~300,000 Croatians in concentration camps. This is recent enough to where your parents and uncles lived through it as children. Suddenly you find yourself as an ethnic Croat minority in a Serb state, run by a Serb strongman who claims those crimes actually didn't really happen, while appointing the same people who perpetrated those crimes. Do you honestly think you'd be totally fucking cool with that?

>>213598105
>half a century after the war.
If you were alive then, then your parents would have lived through WWII. Half a century is not a long time.
>Because it's war?
The examples I've cited (Medari and Dvor) are instances where there are no enemy combatants; just Croatian soldiers rounding up and murdering unarmed ethnic Serb civilian, including children.
>did Serbian rebels
Does existing as an ethnic Serb within Croatia inherently make you a rebel? I would only consider those who actually bore arms to be "rebels."

>>213598105
>>Croats killed some people of other ethnicities
I didn't bring it up on ethnic lines; I brought it up because you killed international peacekeepers.

>Serbs cleansed villages of all non-Serbs in Krajina after the war
? Do you mean after the ceasefire? Because after the war you controlled all of Krajina.

>Look at our current borders and how shit they are because we lost land to Turks and their Serbian settlers, some of you literally say we should have given even more of Croatia like Krajina to entitled Serbs, how about they fuck off?
If you only care about borders and not ethnicity then you shouldn't have seceded from Yugoslavia.
If you only care about ethnicity and not borders then you should have given Krajina to the Serbs.
You want to have your cake and eat it to, so to speak.

>and Serbian murderers still live next to the families of their victims there
You realize the inverse is also true, correct? And that many villages you depopulated such as Medari have been taken over by Croats from places like Posavina, right?

>We just want to be left alone and have our country.
How is saying you should hold child killers accountable for killing children in any way a threat to your country? If anything continuing to have your country associated with child killers by shielding them from prosecuting, despite the children they killed being your own citizens, is bad for your country.

why Serbs and Croats cannot live together like brothers like Czechs and Slovaks (Balkan Slavs supposedly originate from Czechoslovakia??)

>>213598341
Ustashe "croatia" =/= Modern croatia
serbs were offered a peaceful coexistence multiple times, look up plan z4
you fell for serbian propaganda that all croats are ustashe

>>213598524
>Ustashe "croatia" =/= Modern croatia
Again, when your first president is a Holocaust denier who appoints Ustaše veterans to government positions while using Ustaše imagery, that's questionable. Maybe if modern Croatia didn't want to be associated with Ustaše Croatia, you shouldn't have done that?
>plan z4
That was pushed hard by the international community rather than Croatia. Also, Western Slavonia didn't receive autonomy under Plan Z4.
>you fell for serbian propaganda that all croats are ustashe
I'm not calling all Croats Ustaše. In fact I've spoken very positively of Croats in this thread, see >>213596836 for example.
I'm saying that when Franjo Tudjman denies Ustaše crimes, calls on Ustaše imagery, and installs Ustaše veterans in positions of power, that it's reasonable for Serbs in Croatia to assume that the new Croatian state might just be Ustaše in nature.

>>213598781
tudjman has been dead for 26 years now
also we are an EU and NATO country that respects human rights, there are still fome fascists and ustashe but that is a global phenomenom because of resurgence of far right

>>213598341
>half a century is not a long time
My grandfather was starved by the Germans during WW2 and his grandfather died in WW2 in Russia.
My grandfather proceeded to work and travel to both Germany and Russia and function normally with them, nothing bad to say about them in the second half of the 20. century. I don't get why Serbs have to constantly live like WW2 never ended.
>no enemy combatants
As I said, that's war. Serbs killed civilians at the start and Croats at the end of the war. But Serbs are definitely mostly or entirely to blame that there was even a war in the first place. They made everyone's lives shit and that's something they need to get through their thick skulls.
And before someone says something like Tuđman wanted to get rid of or kill Serbs either way, that's not true. He was a criminal that stole and I won't deny that and maybe he wanted to get some land from Croatian parts of Bosnia but he definitely didn't want to go to war with Serbs or kill Serbian civilians which unfortunately happened at some places.
>Does existing in Croatia inherently make them rebels
Of course not. West Croatia was and is filled with Serbs that came during Yugoslavia and we had no problems with them during the 90s. They continue to live here and their families from Serbia often come visit. Actually there was a case where a Serbian man born in Belgrade that moved to Pula as a kid had joined the Croatian army to defend the country against the rebels in Krajina.
But I can see how the Croatian army with soldiers that lost their homes and families might not be so happy to see Serbian civilians that stayed in Krajina and visibly supported the Serbian anti-Croatian paramilitary.

KWAB

>>213599225
>They continue to live here and their families from Serbia often come visit.
Yeah except for the several empty villages with 0 inhabitants. Bonus points for removing the graves in these places for no discernable reason. Delusional Croat. It's not all peace and love, the things that we did to each other are in recent memory.

>>213598524
He probably just reads history. Everyone is pretty annoyed of the constant state-sponsored historical revisionism from you guys. It ranges from "Serbs started it" to "nah didn't happen". It wasn't that fucking long ago, many people are alive now whos family members were rounded up and killed for no reason. Serbians are willing to chalk it up to "war is hell", almost willing to try to move past it. Which one hell of a feat considering 30 years ago a family member died and 80 years ago great grandpa got slaughtered by ustaše for no reason.

But when you say "nah it never happened" or "no no no we are different now, you're exaggerating" it undoes all of that. And honestly if your country keeps heading down that path you'll face nothing but resentment.

>>213599446
Not that poster and I fully support the genocide, mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing of Serbs, but you guys pretending that Croats are the revisionist ones is hilarious. You refuse to admit the most basic facts like the years of when the war started and who started you. You straight up pretend like in 1995 Croats just started shooting. Absolutely delusional.

>Everyone is pretty annoyed
Everyone who? Everyone hates you tards because you lie all the time. There's no "everyone".

>>213598947
We're talking about your "Domovinski rat" and why Serbs "chimp[ed] out", not about present day Croatia.

>>213599225
>My grandfather proceeded to work and travel to both Germany and Russia and function normally with them
Okay but were those Germans Nazi fanboys who claimed the Holocaust didn't happen? Did German every deny ever having starved Croats while your grandfather was living there?
The point is that Tudjman was a Holocaust denier, whitewashed Ustaše crimes, used Ustaše imagery, and put Ustaše veterans in government positions.
Tudjman is responsible for dredging up WWII by denying Ustaše crimes as president of a nation with Serbs who had lived through those crimes.
>As I said, that's war.
Murdering unarmed noncombatants can happen during war, but is not inherent to it.
>But Serbs are definitely mostly or entirely to blame that there was even a war in the first place.
I think your first president being a Holocaust denying Ustaše fanboy, who claimed the now minority ethnic group that was persecuted actually wasn't, might have been a bigger part of it than you're letting on.
>he definitely didn't want to [...] kill Serbian civilians
Some of his statements would suggest otherwise.

>>213599289
>except for the several empty villages with 0 inhabitants.
That's Krajina, the area that was caught in the war and where Croats and Serbs killed each other. Neither do Croats live there anymore.
Istria is a whole other world.

>>213599225
>>213599627
By the way, forgot to ask; what did your grandfather think of Tudjman denying the Holocaust and Ustaše crimes, and installing Ustaše veterans in positions of power?

>>213599627
>Holocaust denier
He wasn't, he was a historian who knew that the official 700,000 dead in Jasenovac was a ludicrous claim, rightfully so, and the historical consensus now confirms it.
>whitewashed Ustaše crimes,
Like what?
>used Ustaše imagery
Like what?
>Ustaše veterans in government positions.
Like who?

>>213599721
>He wasn't
He said 900,000 Jews died instead of 6 million in his 1989 book 'Bespuća povijesne zbiljnosti.' That's textbook Holocaust denial. "Akshually it wasn't 6 million it was [smaller number]!!1!"
>Like who?
I already listed some here >>213597517
>(Vinko Nikolić given a seat in parliament, Nijaz Batlak Daidža (aka Mate Šarlija) made a general in the Croatian army, and Dubrovnik Ivo Rojnica nearly made ambassador to Argentina before international pressure stopped that)

>>213599537
>support the genocide, mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing of Serbs
Yeah you sound like a perfectly reasonable human I don't know why nobody takes you seriously.

>>213599627
>>213599704
Tuđman was a literal communist partisan during WW2 who fought against Ustaše. He even made the Croatian army carry communist flags on their first military parade in the 90s. You know the same communists that killed thousands of Croatian Ustaše and civilians, like what happened to Serbs in 1995 but on a greater scale.
Now I'm genuinely starting to think the word "Ustaša" lost all meaning.

>>213599898
See & explain >>213599820

He's a former partisan who denied the Holocaust and installed Ustaše veterans in positions of power.

>>213594557
>he for instance believes the shelling of Dubrovnik was partially justified,
Why?

nothing cringier than being this nationalistic about history when you are globalist in today

>>213599950
I'm just going to let you know that Croats are like Jews when it comes to history.
> It wasn't us who did it. If it was we didn't mean it. If we meant it they deserved it.
You will no progress in this conversation. They teach this nonsense in Croatian schools now.
Look at this guy
>>213599898
>Now I'm genuinely starting to think the word "Ustaša" lost all meaning.
How convenient that the most genocidal, nazi-aligned, war crime committing group in your history has "lost meaning". Totally just doesn't mean anything anymore, might as well not exist right?

>"waaah our people were genocided in WW2 so now you have to let us do whatever we want"
>state run by genocidal chuds
>hated by all of their neighbors
>larps as "kebab removers" and saviors of the West from Muslims
>be Serbia
>pic unrelated

>>213598519
Because within Serbian politics since the 19th century there is a faction that wants to rule over neighboring countries (Greater Serbianism), and these countries don't want this

>>213599820
No one really cares about the Jews here. Bunch of Ustashe had Jewish wives. Chasing Jews was an imposed idea to Ustashism.

>Nijaz Batlak Daidža
Dude was 16 by the time WWII ended, give him a break.

>>213600127
>Do anything they want
Yes to be left alone to rebuild the country.
Just stay in your western globohomo protectorate with the rest of your wanna be western bootlicking countrymen.

>>213599950
>>213599898
Tuđman ideology revolved around uniting the Croatian right-wing and left-wing into a singular Croatian whole which would then enter Western Europe following the ideas of Christian democracy and liberalism. This is a perfectly legit idea that should be pushed today as well, instead of allowing polarization. Both Partizans and Ustashe fighters were our men.

>>213600079
Generalization isn't good, either for Croats or Jews. People of all groups can use bad faith arguing tactics, even unknowingly, particularly when cognitive dissonance is in play.

There are plenty of Croatians who are open to the topic and recognize history, as described here >>213596836
Things like these are only ever pointless if you believe it to be. People wont be reached if you stop trying to reach them.
I would say these conversations haven't been a waste; after getting past whataboutism, we've gotten down into facts.

>>213597517
>act as though there was no reason for the Serbs to have been concerned,
They were so "concerned" that the first thing they did was expel hundreds of thousands of Croats from Krajina, accompanied with sporadic murders and lootings

>>213600219
>No one really cares about the Jews here.
I don't particularly see what that has to do with Tudjman denying the Holocaust and how doing that would impact the views of the Serbian minority in the fledgling Croatian state.

>Dude was 16 by the time WWII ended, give him a break.
You can still perpetrate crimes against humanity at 16 years old.

>>213600335
Just like Tudjman, you fail to take the Serbian ethnic minority into account when it comes to fellating and lifting up the Ustaše.
You might think that empowering and honoring Nazi collaborators is good, don't act like the victims of those same collaborators have no right to be outraged.

>>213600488
There are several events between the concern and ethnic cleansing that you've skipped over. Point being it started with justifiable concern.

>>213596836
>There are even protests there right now by Croatians over this shit,
>https://balkaninsight.com/2025/08/04/croatia-protesters-demand-recognition-of-operation-storm-war-crimes/
A handful of liberals from a Soros NGO aren't representative of most Croats

>>213600595
They're representative of the best of Croats, though.

>>213600079
I had to listen for a year in elementary school about how Ustaše were bad and about their crimes and how the commies, although still doing crimes and killing people, liberated these lands from fascism.
>it wasn't us who did it
Okay sure, let's say we're all the same people and descendants of fascist criminals that I can almost bet my left nut were a bigger threat to my family than yours - does that give Serbs the right to act like literal chimps in the 90s? LA riot tier monkeys? You use WW2 and Ustaše as an excuse for everything. That's why it's losing meaning. A fucking 15 year old gypsy drawing uneven swastikas on my wall outside is an Ustaša and everyone that says anything bad about Serbs from the 90s is an Ustaša, the topic is always changed to
>b-but Croats did this in WW2!
Again, almost everyone in Europe can use the WW2 victim argument. You act like Serbs were the only victims in WW2 and use it to justify the 90s war. It's so tiresome.
Now Dalmatian and Istrian Croats are getting grouped under Ustaša fascists despite being genocided and killed by Italians and Germans during WW2 and mostly joining the partisan resistance. Every time some meme image depicts Croats it's as a hitler or as a nazi soldier and it's 90% because of Serbs using their only justification for the 90s war in Croatia:
>Croats were nazis in WW2! They killed babies and shieet!
:O

>>213600369
>Generalization isn't good, either for Croats or Jews.
I agree although I don't particularly care either. I don't see a single Croatian flag addressing your central points despite you remaining mostly neutral on the subject. I sincerely think it's a waste of time, but I do hope you gain something from it.

>>213600188
actually there was a fraction in Czechia like that too, after all there was a reason why Slovaks embraced the anti-Czech attitude in the 1930s (Hlinka, Tiso) and again in the 90s. But they could simply solve their conflict in a peaceful way somehow. It's just like some couples can divorce peacefully and some need to fight with all possible methods, that destroy them, their children and their families.

>>213600594
>There are several events between the concern and ethnic cleansing that you've skipped over. Point being it started with justifiable concern.
You're retarded. Imagine if Istrian Croats and Slovenes chimped out when Meloni was elected, violently expelling Istrian Italians en masse and saying muh FdI's fascist dogwhistles made us do it o algo

>>213600594
>victims of those same collaborators
Tuđman's family members were killed by Ustashe. You have a very shallow understanding of WWII history here. This Serb minority was yelling and screaming about Serbian Knin as early as 1989, so no, they don't have a say in it. The "justifiable concern" you're talking about is an artificial creation from Serbia designed as an excuse for an armed uprising against Croatia. A move that Putin will later attempt with Ukraine.

>>213600619
>A fucking 15 year old gypsy drawing uneven swastikas on my wall outside is an Ustaša and everyone that says anything bad about Serbs from the 90s is an Ustaša
Nobody gives a shit a anymore just don't pretend like it didn't happen.
>give Serbs the right to act like literal chimps in the 90s? LA riot tier monkeys?
And this is why people get angry. It's a bad faith argument or you are ignorant. Same old tires story
>Then one day for no reason at all the Serbs attacked us, 50 years after we even did anything
That's not how anything has worked in history ever. Yet somehow you all believe it. Anyway this is boring. Bad faith arguments and strawmen and no value added.

Here in Serbia most people recognize that Croats aren't bloodthirsty savages despite the genocides and war crimes. Most will even admit the Serbian side did some terrible things as well. But not in Croatia. All the while projecting some insane victim complex onto us. It's like arguing with a Jew.

>>213600616
Nobody in Croatia cares about the Serbian victims of Oluja for the same reasons nobody in Eastern Europe cares about the millions of displaced and murdered innocent German civilians after WW2. It's because feigned concern about these people is weaponized by German Nazis/Serbian nationalists and is thus ignored because it can easily be used to enflame these nationalists.
For example one of those libtard NGOs recently put out a video about how many buildings in Zagreb were built by Serbs. The video was then immediately seized by Serbian nationalists who now use it to claim Zagreb.

>>213600853
>The video was then immediately seized by Serbian nationalists who now use it to claim Zagreb.
This never happened but I wish it did

>>213600619
>Okay sure, let's say we're all the same people and descendants of fascist criminals that I can almost bet my left nut were a bigger threat to my family than yours - does that give Serbs the right to act like literal chimps in the 90s? LA riot tier monkeys? You use WW2 and Ustaše as an excuse for everything. That's why it's losing meaning. A fucking 15 year old gypsy drawing uneven swastikas on my wall outside is an Ustaša and everyone that says anything bad about Serbs from the 90s is an Ustaša, the topic is always changed to
You're entirely missing the Tudjman administration's propping up the Ustaše, whitewashing their past and putting their veterans in positions of power.

>Now Dalmatian and Istrian Croats are getting grouped under Ustaša fascists despite being genocided and killed by Italians and Germans during WW2
Who's doing that?
>Every time some meme image depicts Croats it's as a hitler or as a nazi soldier and it's 90% because of Serbs using their only justification for the 90s war in Croatia
I think your own countrymen are equally as responsible. Everybody knows about how the Croatian Wikipedia was basically Stormfront for a while.

>>213600701
>Imagine if Istrian Croats and Slovenes chimped out when Meloni was elected, violently expelling Istrian Italians en masse and saying muh FdI's fascist dogwhistles made us do it o algo
Meloni wouldn't be governing Istria. Also WWII is now 80 years in the past rather than 44.
If Istria belonged to Italy and a fascist Italian came to power in 1991, it would be reasonable for Istrian Croats to be outraged and fearful.

>>213600729
>Tuđman's family members were killed by Ustashe.
You keep saying these little things that at the end of the day don't matter. Tudjman's family was killed by Ustaše... well, he's still a Holocaust denier who used Ustaše imagery and installed Ustaše veterans to power.

>This Serb minority was yelling and screaming about Serbian Knin as early as 1989
Source?

>>213596675
Wrong. Serbia plans to hand out 100k work permits to all foreigners and ghanan minister said he wants ghana to be part of that number. Historically russians were over half people that got permits followed by chinese. In 31.12.2025 serbia had sub 7k desi people

>>213600626
Here things went differently and the Ustaše movement happened, which is why reconcilement between Serbs and Croats now seems impossible. Tito tried to suppress this enmity with force, but it re-emerged after his death.

>>213598519
Look at the ethnic mess Ottomans created. Ethnicities had moved north to other countries and lands, becoming big minorities or a new majority.
I think in early Yugoslavia there was a struggle for dominance in politics between Serbs and Croats but as Serbs were more numerous, on the winning side of WW1, had support from the west, had the capital city and everything they remained the most powerful faction and did some things which Croats really disliked like the assassination of Radić which fueled extremist groups like the Ustaše. Croats were also used to living in a more democratic environment, we had our parliament functioning for centuries prior while Serbs just recently became independent from the Ottomans and never really practiced a functioning democracy. Then fascist Italy and Germany came in to picture, supported the Ustaše, Ustaše started killing Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia and Serbs use this as a reason and justification for the 90s war.

>>213600969
>Holocaust denier
A realist who dared ask questions.
>who used Ustaše imagery
You failed to comment on this when I asked you about it.
>and installed Ustaše veterans to power.
A 16 year old give na rifle mid-WWII is not some hardened Ustasha veteran and is entirely forgiven and irrelevant. There is nothing wrong with recognizing the historical realities and circumstances. I don't see you fuming at Tuđman for installing a bunch of former communists into government.
>Source?
Google 1989 Knin Serb meetings.

>>213600853
Equating the Serbs of the '90s to the Nazis is a very large stretch. Everyone can agree the Axis started WWII, but the same cannot be said for the Yugoslav Wars, just as an example. People can generally agree that Serbs perpetrated more atrocities than Croats and Bosniaks, but not by too significant an amount like with WWII.
As such, unlike with the Germans after WWII, forgetting the victims of Croatian crimes genuinely feels unjust. Rather than one country descending multiple continents into chaos and killing millions, several countries descended themselves into chaos and killed ~150,000.

>>213593501
>I've never met a young adult croat or serb that hates each other.
You must have not met many of them then lol
My parents went to Serbia on a trip and when they returned the Serbs managed to bluepill them with Serbian feminism and stuff. They also told me some WILD stories about croats and Bosnians, which they must have heard there as well.

>>213601146
>A realist who dared ask questions.
Welp, when you start denying the Holocaust yourself, I think that means we've reached the natural conclusion of the discussion. I have to wonder if the other Croats ITT will hate you for going mask-off.
>I don't see you fuming at Tuđman for installing a bunch of former communists into government.
The communists were not as bad as the Ustaše. Again you out yourself.

>>213600969
>Meloni wouldn't be governing Istria.
Not very relevant because of threat of annexation and constant dogwhistles from her government. For example picrel is the youth wing of FdI. Actually that's not even a dogwhistle kek
>Also WWII is now 80 years in the past rather than 44.
So what? The old people in Istria still remember Mussolini's dictatorship and war crimes.

>>213601149
>the same cannot be said for the Yugoslav Wars
lmao
>Serbs perpetrated more atrocities than Croats and Bosniaks, but not by too significant an amount
lmao twice

>>213601217
>Not very relevant because of threat of annexation and constant dogwhistles from her government.
That's still very relevant. Already being governed is worse than potentially being annexed.
>So what?
So now your great grandparents lived through WWII, whereas then your regular parents would have. Big difference.

>>213601149
>Everyone can agree the Axis started WWII, but the same cannot be said for the Yugoslav Wars, just as an example.
It is simply a fact that the Serbian side started the war in Croatia. This isn't even up for debate. You showed up in this thread talking about Croatian war crimes and have now devolved into relativizing the responsibility for the outbreak of the war in the first place.

>>213601199
>oy vey not the denial
Fuck off. Globally historians estimate 60k to 100k dead Jasenovac. Tuđman was among the first here to call out the bullshit on Yugoslav claim of 700k and he was right, his estimate was lower at around 30k to 40k, which is still much closer than communist propaganda.
>communists were not as bad as the Ustaše
Says who and what would you know about it? NDH Domobrans were one of the main supplier of arms to the Partisans. Like I said, you don't know anything about WWII in Yugoslavia and only choose to latch on to these Reddit-tier buzzwords like "Holocaust denier".

>>213600624
>I sincerely think it's a waste of time, but I do hope you gain something from it.
I feel very strongly about the Medari massacre and the Vuković family, and have some sense of obligation to do something. I have no money and no direct influence over Croatian politics, but if I can raise awareness among Croatians then at least it's something. I'd be willing to deal with 20 obstinate, jingoistic, revionist Croats if it meant getting through a little to 1.

>>213600827
>just don't pretend it didn't happen
I'm not pretending it didn't happen. That's the last thing I would do.
>But not in Croatia
I think Serbian media is focusing on one side of Croatian politics. It's constant fighting in Croatia among politicians accusing each other as being communists or Ustaše. There are just as many anti-fascist marches with communist symbols going on as there are homeland war memorials. Even Croatian movements for Serbian victims exist.
>projecting victim complex
The fact is Serbia wasn't under threat from Croatians while Croatia was from Serbs. Both Serbs and Croats were victims in the breakup wars of Yugoslavia. But only Croatia was and Serbia wasn't. I've even seen Serbian anons here in the past use arguments like.
>"it wasn't our war, it didn't concern us"
so its obvious Serbs from Serbia didn't feel threatened
>"we had pro-peace hippy protest in Serbia during that time!"
if only the Serbs in Croatia were hippies...
>it's like arguing with a jew
bro, starting recent conflicts and always using the fact you were victims in WW2 as an argument is exactly what Jews do

>>213601347
The communists were better than the Ustaše tho
Ustaše:
>kill Serbs en masse which then permanently ruined our relations with them
>ran an Italian cuck state which would just get destroyed by Italy if the Axis won
Commies' greatest crime in comparison was instituting an unsustainable economic system which failed

>>213601315
>It is simply a fact that the Serbian side started the war in Croatia.
It might be in Croatia, but it is not objectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSvTyo_gRg

>>213601462
I'm sure there's some ghetto nignog family who didn't get a fair trail after getting shot by cops in the US, go busy yourself with them.

>Croatian Serbs are ba-AACK
meanwhile our HDZ government does nothing

>>213601552
If there was a case of children being murdered in cold blood around the time I was born, their murders being known, but the government shielding them from prosecution, then you bet I would feel as strongly about it.

i like how serbs are seen as le ebul by internet autists even though bulgaria and greece did ten times worse shit and were way bigger expansionists than serbs

these guys need to have a break

>>213601536
Mate, you want out of a shitty union as it is your constitutional right and not only do you get denied that right but invaded on top of that. Nothing ambiguous about it

So now that the dust has settled, why is fascism being mainstreamed in Croatia right now?
Two theories I've read:
>people are being radicalized by mass Nepali immigration and this is being sublimated into Thompson mania
>the ruling class is preparing us for a possible new big war in Europe

>>213601602
I'm sure no such incidents occured in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and if they did the US government did their utmost best to severely punish the transgressors.

>>213601673
>and not only do you get denied that right but invaded on top of that.
You could equally be referring to Krajina Serbia as you could Croatia, here.

Secessionists states that crack down on their own secessionists are ridiculously hypocritical. "Secession for me, not for thee!"

>>213601673
People forget that the war started before we even had a referendum for independence.

>>213601706
Oh the U.S. government is absolutely corrupt and brutal. You're not getting any objections from me there.
The differences is that the U.S. government is powerful and has almost 250 years of dodging war crimes accountability, whereas the Croatian government isn't nearly as powerful and has held some of it's soldiers to account over the 34 years it's been around. Therefore it's more likely to get Croatian accountability.
Also, the U.S. military didn't commit war crimes within the time frame of Operation Storm, unless you count the CIA training, funding and arming the Croatian Army through MPRI. So there's less of a personal connection.

>>213601750
>"K-Krajina seceded because of states' rights!!"
States' rights to do what?

>>213601676
>fascism
Fascism in Croatia is just anti-Serb sentiment or even just victory taunt songs from the 90s. They welcomed jeets to the concert with open arms. It's literally just thomson and his fans doing what they always do.
Also these supposed "fascist" are the same people that go to Belgrade and consume their music and culture.

>>213601897
That's why I said it's a sublimation of anti-migrant sentiment. Because anti-Serbism is more "safe edgy" and more socially acceptable to an extent

>>213601884
If you are asking genuinely; state's rights to not be ethnically cleansed.

If you're implying I'm some neo-Confederate; I'm a northerner, and both sides were wrong in the ACW. The Confederacy was fighting to retain and even expand the institution of slavery, while the Union was fighting to subjugate and punish the south for seceding, which it had every constitutional right to do even for a terrible reason. Both were fighting to oppress others.

>>213601991
>state's rights to not be ethnically cleansed.
Which is why they did pre-emptive ethnic cleansing of Croats just to be sure? Interesting tactic

>>213602031
It was more complicated than that since Croats started ethnically cleansing Krajina Serbs around the same time, but you're not exactly wrong.
It was some Han/Greedo shot first shit as to who "started" ethnic cleansing in the '90s. I'm not denying Serbs ethnically cleansed Croats, though, but they at least had self-preservation as a reason rather than "YEAH KILL'EM" like Croats.

>>213602110
Fucking kek, I guess a serb can break into your house, stab you and it would still be considered "self preservation"

>>213602252
If a Serb is convinced you're going to kill him and kills you because he believes he's protecting himself, it isn't the same as a Croat killing you for the lulz.
Both are terrible but one isn't as terrible as the other.

>>213592820 (OP)
We also started the rape of georgia on the same day.
Odd coincidence, funny how you did get away with ethnic clensing tho

Why do balkanoids think the world revolves around them?

>>213602354
Better question: why does the world revolve around balkanoids?

>>213599721
>>213601146
>You failed to comment on this when I asked you about it.
https://chdr-ns.com/pdf/Vjeran-Pavlakovic-Flirting-with-Fascism-The-Ustasa-Legacy-and-Croatian-Politics-in-the-1990s.pdf
p. 9
>Tudjman’s apparent rehabilitation of the NDH, compounded with the actual increase of pro-Ustaša imagery in Croatia,38
>8 Reporter Ines Sabalić noted how objects with Ustaša symbols were being openly sold on Zagreb’s main square with no reaction from the authorities, which she evaluated as being “a very bad move on the part of Croatia from a propaganda perspective.” Nedjeljna Dalmacija (Split), 23 June 1991, pp. 8–9.

>>213602354
Well the Balkan world does revolve around Balkanoids

could you finally get over 100year old grievances and move on? you really have much bigger problems right now like depopulation, economic crisis, housing crisis, illegal (and legal) immigration and so on, yet you're fucking arguing over whose grandpa killed whose grandma and whether jasenovac was a slaughterhouse or a summer camp

>>213603248
>100 year old
100 years ago we had basically no bad blood

>>213603360
I think he's rounding up from 80, which is dumb since a lot can happen in 20 years. Compared 2025 to 2005.

>>213603360
>>213603431
this obsession about details is what keeps you down
dude, how does it matter if it happened 80 or 100 or 300 years ago, you live now and you should care about what is happening now, not some long gone past

>>213603766
History is a spectrum. There is no fine line where something suddenly stops mattering.

>>213603766
fuck up retard

I love how Croatia has been cooming ever since the Thompson concert, your owners really know what they're doing.
You're getting flooded by liberal propaganda (no, going to Thompson concert does not make you not-liberal) and by shitskins but it's okay you gave Serb tabloids something to write about and made 65yos seethe, worth it.
I'll hear about this garbage until I die.

>>213603864
it should definitely stop now
Croats and Serbs should cooperate to tackle the real problems their countries have

>>213602545
>a literal who is quoting a literal who on a mysterious website in a pdf with no explanation as to who wrote it, why or where it was published about how supposedly Ustasha trinkets are being sold on some stand in Zagreb
>Tuđman is using Ustaša imagery
Man, fuck off.

>>213603931
>owners
>liberal propaganda
Schizo cope. You're a poor shithole, we're not. That's all there is to it.

>>213604535
>You're a poor shithole, we're not.
>>>we’re not

>>213604453
>why or where it was published
>>Nedjeljna Dalmacija (Split), 23 June 1991, pp. 8–9
...

>>213604535
You absolutely do have owners, don't ask yourself why Thompson has been surpressed for years and years until recently.

>>213604535
>>213604766
could you shut up and just...reunite?

>>213597189
>This country including Croatian Serbs would be so much richer and better off if they didn't chimp out that it makes my blood boil.

Holy fucking cope. Your balkanoid shithole was never ever ever gonna be rich because it’s too small to do anything alone and you give all your money to the EU and NATO and live off gibs. Fucking delusional liberal faggot LMAO

>>213604586
Correct, we're financially doing fine, and compared to Serbia, we're Switzerland. It's why Serbshits come here to work seasons like Mexican cheap labour.

>>213604598
Didn't address anything of substance.

>>213604766
It's insane how schizo the average Serb is. There should really be some global WHO-funded project of studying the mass psychosis of the Serbian nation.

>>213604805
Next war we are gonna fuck them up for good

>>213592864
>>213592820 (OP)
>They made him sign it on a police car
kek

Croats were literally used as cannon fodder for a thousand years yet I'm called psychotic, in the second world war you were even sent to the eastern front like dogs.
At this point NOT being used would be a miracle for you.

>>213605696
>t. a nation that loses 50% of male population in WWI and calls themselves the winning side
>t. a nation that massively fled ottomans and settled Croatia in order to be literal cannon fodder on the border
>t. a nation that massively joined ottomans as cannon fodder against the Serb cannon fodder living in Habsburg Croatia
Meds ASAP.

>>213606153
What about Catholicism turns Slavs into such whores?
You and Poles are lolcows of 4chan.

>>213605507
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

>>213602354
Because it does

>>213606259
>psychotic rambling continues
Quick, call 112, it's not too late to get a haloperidol shot before you spin off into full psychosis about how Croatian kings are a Vatican conspiracy.

>>213606402
>25,674 vs 14,174, projected 32,895 vs 21,071
Thank you for the confirmation.

>>213603360
Bad blood between Croats and Serbs already began in like 1902 but yeah it grew more intense in the interwar period

Lol at Timmy Serbanovich finally melting down after spending too much time in the thread

>>213606153
>t. a nation that massively joined ottomans as cannon fodder against the Serb cannon fodder living in Habsburg Croatia
Kek

>>213602354
Because it does. People on this board know about miniscule regions like Herzegovina, Istria and Dalmatia and listen to 90s war songs that people who are actually from here don't even know, yet struggle naming two German federal states or more than one Danish city. There are several Balkan threads daily and yet not a single Benelux thread. Per capita, the Balkans are the most interesting place in the world. It's up to you to figure out why.

>>213606703
>90s war songs that people who are actually from here don't even know
People here also don't know about Internet Balkan common knowledge lore like Đorđe Martinović

>>213606703
Bayern
Nordrhein-Westfalen

Kobnhavn
Randers

>>213607011
Le West....hasst falen???
>>213606703
Saxony-Anhalt
Baden-Wurtemberg

I cant do danish cities

However i can do SARAJEVO SEBRENICA VISEGRAD

>>213605258
Amerinigger, it was better off and arguably richer than basically any other East European country or region before the war besides Slovenia.
If our industry and agriculture weren't stolen and destroyed by war profiteering criminals and conflict we would be closer to what Czechia is now. Not rich like the western nations but definitely richer.
Slovenia is tiny yet mogs some bigger "western" countries in Europe like Greece, Portugal and a huge chunk of Italy in terms of quality of life, building & infrastructure and the wealth of the average citizen.

Heil Tuđman. Fuck sexhavers

>>213605507
>Didn't address anything of substance.
Cool lie, bro.

My take is that Croatians were in the right and Serbs were in the wrong

>>213613946
My take is that Croatians were in the wrong while Serbs were also in the wrong, but Serbs got held to account while Croatians basically got away scot-free.

>>213601217

Kek
I can assure you no one cares about that, my friend.
Most Italians wouldn't even be able to locate Fiume on a map, I think you're reasonably safe