Thread 213598337

Young people in eastern and southern Europe realized the only way to win the real estate game is by not playing it.

>>213598337 (OP)
I think Germanic people have a really hard time understanding that living with parents can be just a cultural thing not only economic. I can speak for my country and the whole system here is kind of 'designed' for living with parents but in the way that doesn't affect your living standards, actually it improves them. People tend to build big, multigenerational houses that are separated by floors where each floor is assigned to one generation/family, these floors are often as big as detached houses would be so even though you technically live with your parents, you in fact live separately but at the same time you can use your parents to help you when you need that (especially important if you have kids, you don't need to hire an au pair because there is always their grandma around). No one thinks this is something undesirable and something we should get rid of in favor of "independent" life.

I found a new job that pays 20k more, it's close to my parents house so I moved back. Now I have 40k more per year and the cost is maintaining the family pool

>>213598337 (OP)
In Serbia it's way higher. Almost everyone lives with their parents until married. Even then sometimes they just build onto the family house or get an apartment nearby

>>213598337 (OP)
the game is called being poor

>>213599183
Many people will tell you that’s not the case and they prefer sharing home with family over being a rentoid.
>>213598337 (OP)

I think it’s a combination of both. When rentcucking is 30% of your income it seems the better option, when it’s half or over you’d rather get comfy at home.

>>213598722
Dwellings in Eastern Europe are somewhat smaller than in the West, not bigger. It’s a cultural thing, not really related to the buildings.

>>213599266
Smaller AND of much lower quality. The only thing that is worse in German housing to me is some insane drainage, I had to tell the landlord to call a plumber because for some mysterious reason Germans love those retarded plastic and thin pipes which are incredibly easy to block with fat after you are done washing the dishes and pans. I have never seen retarded pipes like that in my life before, my old Soviet pipes from the fucking '50s were made of metal and thicker than an adult man's hand

>>213599183
trvke
My yearly salary is 72 thousand US dollars after tax and I still live with my parents because I can't afford to move out.

>>213599363
Oh, I also forgot to add that the plumber somehow managed to DAMAGE the pipe and now there's a leak behind the fucking wall, you would need to dismantle the entire goddamn wall just to fix the poor connection in one of those fucking plastic pipes. Spent 23 years in Soviet housing and never ever had a problem like this

>>213599266
>Dwellings in Eastern Europe are somewhat smaller than in the West,
only because commieblock apartments are very small, but in the end everyone strives to build a house and our houses are already big

>>213599424
Bullshit.

>>213599424
>6k/month can't get you housing in Poland
Is that before some massive taxes or what? Because if I can live on my own in Luxembourg doing less than that, there is absolutely no way you can't in Poland.

>>213599485
>Is that before some massive taxes or what?
it's because he's fucking trolling you
our property taxes are ridiculously low, literally 0.3eur/sqm/year. I pay roughly 20eur per year for my 60sqm apartment in Warsaw that is worth almost 250k eur

the gubmint here hates people living with their parents because it means less control over them so they pay for every NEETs/students commie block apartment

>>213598337 (OP)
Lack of social housing and imo people are less likely to want to live with other people here. At least in my experience, most people I know who finally move out they live alone. Surprised me when people I know who moved abroad told me how many people live with others

>>213599485
>Is that before some massive taxes or what?
Its due to lack of taxes on landlords which allows them to hoard property and hold it hostage until you pay an exorbitant amount of money.
My 6k a month doesn't even get you a square meter of an apartment.
Whenever some non-morally corrupt politician brings up the idea of a cadaster tax everyone and their mother froths at the mouth screaming lululu think of them poor landlords they dindu nuffinz!

>>213599740
Poolish are honorary Americans now. Proud to see you caring for millionaires.

>>213599740
Bullshit.

You can afford to move out. You just want to buy a new build apartment with cash, which not even Dubai Arabs can afford outright.

>>213599798
>You just want to buy a new build apartment with cash
Landlords and bankers are part of the same parasitic class that we should be actively detaining and putting in mass graves.

>>213598337 (OP)
Real estate is being sold out like crazy, though, people are buying 500k+ euros apartments with cash. Foreigners, diaspora, criminals, people with black/grey market untaxed incomes, people with tourism money. The game is being played, it's just that most of us don't get to play.

>>213599845
Agreed, but it didn’t go well last time Eastern Europe did that.

>>213599740
>Its due to lack of taxes on landlords which allows them to hoard property and hold it hostage until you pay an exorbitant amount of money.
Landlords pay regular 8.5% tax from rent.
I don't know what else "tax" would you want, especially that each tax imposed on landlords would be effectively paid by tenants, raising rent prices even more, so be careful what you wish for.
t. landlord

>>213599875
it went fucking AMAZING. We need another Stalin Landlords should get real jobs or die.

>>213599933
I pray to lord almighty who governs the heavens that you get hit by a car or stabbed by a drunk georgian and die the dog's death you deserve you fucking parasite.

>>213599944
It’s time …

>>213599983
Do you expect a random person to give you a place to live for free or what? I dont like landlords either but this landlord hate is so childish lol like what do you expect?

>>213599740
>Whenever some non-morally corrupt politician brings up the idea of a cadaster tax everyone and their mother froths at the mouth screaming lululu think of them poor landlords they dindu nuffinz!

The only party that wants to radically change the housing system in this country barely reaches 5% in elections.
Which means 95% of Poles are fine with this system as it is, because they are homeowners or live with parents and like it. I am deeply sorry that you had to be born in that small unlucky 5% minority but well, it's the same like some people are born disabled, short or ugly. We cannot arrange the world to conform to such a small minority, if it would damage interests of the majority.

>>213600038
>Which means 95% of Poles are fine with this system as it is, because they are homeowners or live with parents and like it.
They're fine with it because they're cuckolded room temperature IQ nigger cattle

>>213600026
unimaginably based

>>213599983
once again, you can ask for whatever new tax to be introduced but you're literally shooting yourself in the foot because it will mean your rent will grow exactly by the value of this tax. Taxes are neutral to landlords, they only serve to fill the state budget at the expense of tenants.

>>213598722
>living with parents can be just a cultural thing not only economic.
Yea bullshit its purely economical

>>213600129
Poland doesn’t have youth unemployment levels like Greece. They could afford to move out *technically*, but that would mean spending 50% of their income on housing.

>>213600116
i want to see you stay neutral to taxes when the state starts asking 99% of your rental income you kike dog

>>213598337 (OP)
How do you explain the difference between France and Italy?

>>213600182
France and Italy have comparable average rents; but Italian youth earns a third less.

>>213600129
It is both somewhat. I know three people who moved away from their parents when they were 14. But I also know people still living with their parents at 25+ even though they could move out

>>213600070
nah, just housing is not a problem for them
once again, I feel sorry for you that you were born in a poor family, that your parents did not buy you your apartments in a big city when you finished 18yo, but this is just a rare situation for Polish people who generally just have a place to live they are fine with. The whole housing problem is exaggerated by a small, but vocal minority of redditors who are mostly students/young professionals born in small towns/countryside, moved to a big city for uni, graduated and suddenly realized they have no place to live. This is the only category of people in this country who are unhappy with their housing situation because for some reason they think they deserve to live in a big city and someone (the state) should give them a house there for free, obviously only in the very centre, in the hip district with lots of ethnic bars and fancy clubs (otherwise it's not a "real" house), 10 min by foot from their corpo-office. And they will cry like little babies if reality turns out to be different and a free house like that doesn't fall off the sky into their hands. I have no idea why this group is so annoying, you don't see disabled or ugly people crying that someone "owes" something to them to the same degree

>>213600158
Yea same as here. All my normalfaggot school friends are living paycheck to paycheck working 10 hours a day. Up until a few years ago they all lived with parents as well in the late 20s for purely economical reasons.

>>213600280
Poland has horrible salary to rent or square meter ratio, you are just coping

>>213600162
>when the state starts asking 99% of your rental income
and what if it starts asking for 99% of your income from work?
anyway, when the state starts asking for my 99% of rental income then I will raise my prices to keep my income on the same level while this tax will be effectively levied upon you, not my problem

tenants calling for dealing with landlords in a brutal way are no different from disabled people calling for cutting off legs for all healthy people to "make chances equal".

>>213600251
>even though they could move out
move out and do what? Wageslave with no light at the end of the tunnel. I know that *technically* you can move out, but *technically* you can also jump off a roof as well.

>>213600343
And Hungry?

>>213600425
Hungary has lower rents but so are the salaries I think. If you did not have "social housing" or whatever you call it Germany would suck too
Almost every place sucks nowadays for rent, the only "solution" is making above the average wage

>>213600343
>Poland has horrible salary to rent or square meter ratio,
but most Poles don't need to rent, simply
I admit, if you're in this small 5% minority that has to - you're fucked. Just like you're fucked when you're born without legs or below 170cm as a male. Shit happens. It doesn't mean the world should change to make life easier exactly for you, though.
But I told you, there is no political will to change anything because no one votes for programs that promise to change the rental system here. Simply. Poles don't care about it, they are fine with their housing situation. What drives them crazy is LGBT, religion, gas prices, Germany/Russia and many other things (judging by what mainstream parties talk about the most), but not housing. This is completely a non-topic in our political discourse except for fringe leftist parties that as I said, reach 5% at best.

>>213600414
> Wageslave with no light at the end of the tunnel.
Schwab couldn’t be happier hearing this.

>>213600497
The share of social housing is actually very small, it’s bigger in the uk and France. But *all* rental apartments are anally rent regulated, not only the social ones, so in a sense all housing kind of works like social housing.

>>213600504
For me its either I escape both wageslaving narrative and living with subhuman parents narrative by the same time next year or murder suicide happens. I dont care what schwab wants.

Speaking as a Balkanoid. Living with parents sucks and is pathetic. Fuck that.

>>213600503
This does not add up because the average square meter in Poland is much smaller than in Western countries. You don't actually have giant houses with "generations" living on each floor, etc Looking at OPs pic over half the people live with their parents so I doubt the housing situation is fine over there

>>213600526
Yeah whatever the point is that the system is not completely a wild west for rent like here but if you want to buy it sucks. I do not know exact numbers, etc. and to be honest I don't really care but looking at places like Berlin and what they are asking for a new apartment the market seem to suck there too
Here if you are "lucky" you can snag a "new" apartment for around 2800 EUR / sqm, lowest I have seen that is currently being built started from like 2200 EUR / sqm for the first bidders but its a really basic apartment. In Germany, even in like Berlin you can see apartments going for like 7k / sqm easily

>>213600633
I imagine it’s hell if it’s an apartment or bungalow house and manageable if it’s a multi storey house with several bathrooms.

>>213600664
>I imagine it’s hell if it’s an apartment
Not even touching the hell it is >>213598117

>>213600654
> like Berlin and what they are asking for a new apartment the market seem to suck there too
Of course it does, if you want to buy, not rent, and in a big city and that.
Berlin isn’t cheap anymore btw it’s probably more expensive than Wectern cities except Munich. You’re probably comparing it to Budapest which is correct.

Apartment ownership is extremely uncommon btw. People either buy homes as a family or rentcuck. «Buying an apartment» is an idea mostly foreigners have.

>>213600664
It depends but idk it just feels really lame to live with parents. It feels like still being a child and you're sort of ball and chained to where your parents decided to live.

The mobility and freedom to be your own person and lead your own life just feels so much more liberating and reassuring. Ofc, most young people in the Balkans just straight up can't do that.

>>213600719
Ah the harmonious and joyful Mediterranean family life I’ve heard so much about.

>>213600654
>You don't actually have giant houses with "generations" living on each floor,
we do, do you want me to post pictures?
>the average square meter in Poland is much smaller than in Western countries
because commieblock flats are very small
>Looking at OPs pic over half the people live with their parents so I doubt the housing situation is fine over there
yes, in big houses

once again, there is nothing that shows what people are concerned about the most than election results
people here got concerned by illegal immigration, suddenly all parties started talking about it, the chud party hits 20% because of that but even the mainstream parties had to adopt a stricter approach
meanwhile almost no one talks about housing or that's just brief mentioning at one meeting with young people that gets forgotten after a while and especially it is totally ignored in practice
because truth is, most people don't care

also, housing prices in Poland are inflated by big cities. Meanwhile 60% of Poles live in the countryside + like 30% live in small towns (where everyone has his own house). Only 10% of Poles live in 5 biggest cities combined (probably unexpected to you, as a Hungarian, where 1/3 of the country lives in one big city) and these places are the only where "housing crisis" could be a thing. But again, this affects such a small part of the population (after all, a large part of big cities' inhabitants have their own houses and don't need to rent either) so it's completely irrelevant.
You must be really unlucky to be born in Poland and have housing issues, simply.

>>213600727
Yeah it is different here, home ownership is seen as an important thing by people hence that government program they introduced like 10 years ago of giving 25k EUR to families building a house or something like that and now there is talk about a new program that would give 3% interest rate to new buyers because the former program mostly benefited people who were well off already

>>213600778
To be fair I think Im a special case. I dont know many people whose parents decided that their kid should spend their childhood in a gypsy neihboorhood and permanently fuck up their lungs at age 2 by having the house smell of cigarretes.

>>213600814
>we do, do you want me to post pictures?
>because commieblock flats are very small
kek that is not how statistics works. If you have large homes but the average square meter is still very low because of all the small commie blocks then it does not matter lol

>>213598337 (OP)
My parents have a decent sized house, that my dad inherited from his dad and rebuilt parts and fixed it up, and im gonna inherit and built upon it. Why live like a wage slave in some commiebloc shit alone when you can have moms pancakes, while have more space for yourself than in a flat. My parents would prefer to take care of their grandchildren too, so why move out. Fuck you landlord man, you wont get to leech my money, I beter invest it in what I can pass on.

>>213600878
dude, it works here like that so if you really want to live alone (especially you're single), you choose a commieblock flat. Yes, they are on average smaller than respective flats in the west, but well, you live alone.
But if you want to start a family, the most common setting here is to live in a multigenerational house, for the reasons stated above.

And sure, if average housing in Poland looks like 40 sqm commieblock vs 200sqm multigen house = avg is 120sqm, meanwhile in the west it's like 100sqm commieblock vs 150 sqm house then avg is 125 sqm then obviously the west performs better
but it doesn't mean that it's particularly bad here
and most commieblock flats here are privately owned as well, the number of people who have to rent is really small

>>213601004
Eh honestly seems like you are just coping and exaggerating things
Ofc people who want to start a family generally prefer a house if they can afford it. The exact same happens here and I'm pretty sure it is the same everywhere else

>>213601004
Google says detached homes are on average 155 sqm in Germany, 170 sqm in Norway, 122 sqm in France and 133 sqm in Poland.

Building sizes aren’t the differentiating factor here.

>>213601063
>Eh honestly seems like you are just coping and exaggerating things
nah, it's you who do this because you want to make the problem look bigger than it is in reality
reality is that people don't care and if they don't care then it means it is not a problem

at the end what counts is ownership structure and in Poland it is heavily biased towards individual ownership, which means renting is very rare. Basically no one besides students/young people needs to rent. I don't know a single person over 30 that would rent his house/apartment. Everyone owns his property, either with mortgage or simply because he was able to buy that. We just have that traditional family support culture, your parents will always help you buy your apartment because unlike western boomers, they are frugal people and don't waste money on cruises around the world or fucking trans girls in Thailand. Or if not with money, then your father and your brothers/cousins will help you build your house with their own hands, most houses here are individually-built to this day.

Im conflicted on living with my parents. I have a great relationship with them, its wonderful but fuck they can be annoying.

>>213600772
From a mental standpoint I get you, but financially rentcucking makes the least sense out of any option. You’re better off leeching of your parents and saving money on your own place, which is what most Balkanoids do I guess.

>>213601144
>Google says detached homes are on average 155 sqm in Germany, 170 sqm in Norway, 122 sqm in France and 133 sqm in Poland.
which is exactly what i was talking about, commieblock flats would be much smaller in Poland than they are in France but because our detached houses are really huge (300sqm+ is not rarity, just divided into separate floors, 4-floor detached houses aren't rare either), then our average seems quite high

>>213601144
100 sqm could realistically house a family of 4 without real discomfort

>>213601204
… but I asked specifically for detached homes.

Not for overall dwellings. They’re way smaller in every country.

>>213599183
>>213598337 (OP)

I make 3k /Month but i live with my parents at 40 for income maxxing and because im lazy and dont like house chores and grocery shopping. Also living completely alone is sad, you need somebody to exchange a few words now and then. My parents apartment is 200m2 though so I have plenty of space. Dunno if i would do it with 70m2 o algo

>>213601240
obviously, we also have smaller detached houses from the old era but when you combine them with 300sqm monstrosities you get average higher than in France (pretty unexpected, right? you'd never think Poles can have higher quality of life than French in regard to housing space)

>>213601174
>We just have that traditional family support culture
Yea thats where the bullshit starts. Its not "traditional", its pure economic pressure. Give every pole living with his parents 2 million euro, guaranteed they will take a shit at your tradition and give the middle finger to their parents before paying an assassin to kill them and burn their house.

>>213601204
Honestly doubt that desu

>4-floor detached houses
kek please show me one like that

Do you just invite a girl over at your parents? I guess if everyone is doing it, it's not as taboo.

>>213601271
Desu guy sounds like he just gifted a house or something and now he is making up all kinds of cope about "4 story detached houses" etc lol

>>213601243
>Also living completely alone is sad
What absolute bullshit. Talking to myself on 4chan and occasionaly getting (you)s is more than enough social interaction for me. Being alone would be the best thing that could happen to me.

also, im not saying Poles have it best in Europe or something
but the real situation here is much better than what your typical Germanic person thinks when he sees that 53% Poles live with parents because he thinks it means total poverty and 4 adult Poles packed like sardines in a small studio in a grey commieblock with a steel factory fuming right at their windows.

>>213601215
It’s more psychological than anything. For most of our recent history, we lived on ~5-10 square feet per person. Even nobles shared bedrooms with servants and didn’t feel discomfort.

>>213601325
Yea it just sounds like he is trying to brag for his situation or something like that, not make an actual assesment for the general situation.

>>213601317
>girl
What website do you think you are on.

>>213601338
>we
Speak for yourself. Im gonna live in compelte solitude by next year or commit murder suicide.

>>213601332
It’s exactly like the photo from this news article lol.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/04/11/half-of-poles-aged-25-34-live-with-parents-up-from-a-third-two-decades-ago-and-among-highest-in-eu/

But I don’t believe being a rentoid until 40, what Western Europeans do, is inherent better, it’s just coping differently with a bad housing market.

>>213601271
>Give every pole living with his parents 2 million euro, guaranteed they will take a shit at your tradition and give the middle finger to their parents before paying an assassin to kill them and burn their house.
nah, because you completely ignore WHY people want to live with their parents - they do that because they use their parents (especially mothers) as free workforce - cook, cleaner, maid and au pair for grandchildren in one. Obviously if you are super rich and you can pay for all these services without feeling it, then you could resign from "employing" your mum for all these chores. But it's impossible for most middle class people in every country of the world.

So at the end we have a situation, when a young Polish family has 100sqm floor in their family house, they have free care for their children, they have dinners prepared by someone else, they have their part of their house cleaned when they're at home, all house chores are done by (grand)mother. Meanwhile a young German family living separately from parents has to either pay hefty money for each of these services or simply do it alone which takes time and effort.

>>213601338
No, they did not. Maids etc. had separate apartment block within the complex. I actually lived in one of those. It was like 30 sqm and had a separate stair leading to it within the courtyard that was much narrower than the other stair. Other than that it was the same as the other apartments just smaller. I actually really loved living there, it had those high ceilings, air con, it was nicely renovated

>>213601325
>Desu guy sounds like he just gifted a house
Yes (apartment to be more exact) but it's just a normal situation here. I know barely few people who didn't get their house bought by their parents or at least the parents paying a large share of their mortgage.

>>213601415
Make sure to murder landlords, not innocents.

>>213601421
you can always cherrypick a photo to back your biased claim if you want
but it doesn't look like that for most people here
if i took a photo of a homeless person in frankfurt, would it mean that every frankfurt resident is homeless?

>>213601512
Sorry anon you are just coping

>>213601437
You’re describing high nobility, maybe even kings, in the late Middle Ages.

Beds were very expensive, even for nobles, so they slept in groups there.

https://aprilmunday.wordpress.com/tag/medieval-bedchamber/#:~:text=For%20many%2C%20the%20bed%20was,would%20sleep%20with%20his%20family.

>>213601512
Im making fun of the photo.

I don’t think everyone living with their parents is necessarily unhappy about it.

>>213601532
No I'm talking about late 19th and early 20th century court yard apartments that had a separate area for maids
Paris did the same on the top of the apartment IIRC

>>213601433
Well now you start admitting that its economic pressure and not some ebin tradition but different narrative than mine.

Yea sure I guess some want mommy to take care of them at age 30+ but for the most part its that they have no other option than be stuck with parents at that age(or just wageslave and give their income to some landlord).

>>213601274
first example
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1911935,21.5528411,3a,75y,118.06h,95.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXlV3RQgzB_uRjfogXvw5_Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.093479419487792%26panoid%3DXlV3RQgzB_uRjfogXvw5_Q%26yaw%3D118.05685533186511!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgwNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

obviously the small window at the top is also a livable floor (attic), it's very common here to arrange it like that

i know, for Hungarians it might seem odd, I indeed didn't see such houses in Hungary which is weird since they exist everywhere in Poland, Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Romania. But Hungary is kinda like "black hole" between all of them where it seems only low, one, max two floor kadar-kockas exist. Strange.

>>213601562
Yeah but that’s quasi-modernity, they already had factories to mass produce furniture and enable life like that. For most of our history, we didn’t.

>>213601465
Im not helping anyone. Why would I help anyone? Its vengeance not charity. Anyways the target would be my family.

>>213601570
>Well now you start admitting that its economic pressure
everything is a matter of balance between the economy and culture
simply here it is culturally accepted to live with parents even if you have the same economic situation that would already not excuse living with parents in the west
obviously if you have an unlimited amount of money then perspective changes

>>213598337 (OP)
>40%
and the amount of completely empty houses here that are being hoarded by landlords or AirBnB niggers. this place is so bad

>>213601613
Here I found an example. It is called "cselédlépcső" which is basically like "servant stairs" The apartment I rented had these too. It was much more narrow than the other one

>>213601647
>everything is a matter of balance between the economy and culture
If that was the case then riches and immunity from economic pressure would not make a difference and you would still live with parents. According to even your own words thats not the case.

real shit starts in southern Poland where traditionally families are bigger and birth rate is the highest in the country
5-6 floor houses are a thing

>>213601599
But this is just cherry picking. All the surrounding houses are much smaller. I could cherry pick large houses from Hungary too and everyone could from their own cunt

>>213601677

>>213601681
as i said, it's a matter of balance
im not saying economy doesn't play any role, but it cannot be just come down to
>live together with parents = poor economy
because there is more to this than that
simply in two countries with exactly the same economy there could be vastly different shares of population living with parents and that would be because in one country the culture accepts living with parents to a higher degree than with another country

>>213598337 (OP)
There's also a cultural factor there. Meds countries are way more family-oriented, while the relation between children-parents-grandparents is colder in Scandinavian and Germanic countries.
Also shows that France is also more germanic than med.

>>213601778
>All the surrounding houses are much smaller
again, we already established (the German guy brought the data) so houses in Poland are on average bigger than in France
obviously, everyone builds a house according to his needs, if someone doesn't have children, he doesn't need a 4floor house
but the point is that they exist and if you have a big family, you will most likely have a big house so your childern will have high living standards despite technically "living with parents". If a German read pure data that "in Poland a family of 6 lives in one house with parents" he would think they must have extremely low living standards, being packed like sardines while it's not the case most likely
Germans or especially Anglos with their standardized housing and cookie-cutter homes can't even grasp the idea that there is something like individually built housing and adjusting housing size to your own needs, expanding the house gradually once your family becomes larger. That's why in Poland it's not unusual to see a 300sqm house next to a 60sqm hut. I mean, obviously I know Germans will say it looks chaotic and it hurts their urban planning autism but well, as for personal living standards it matters little, what counts is how big your personal space is.

>>213601793
>simply in two countries with exactly the same economy there could be vastly different shares of population living with parents and that would be because in one country the culture accepts living with parents to a higher degree than with another country
Yea Im sure its just a coincidence that this "culture" is mostly in poor countries and the opposite in rich countries.

>>213600026
And then a hundred million of those same peasants starved to death and now all the land in China is owned by the state.

>>213601907
Sounds like cope desu especially considering the average tfr of Poland which has been under 3 for like 85 years

>>213601778
>I could cherry pick large houses from Hungary too
you brought some historical house, I haven't seen modern houses like that in Hungary other than in Gypsy areas. I understand why the whole concept seems so weird to you but as I said, you're exceptional in eastern Europe (this is why I always say that Hungary is the only eastern European nation with a distinct culture). If you asked a Slovak, Romanian or a Serb, he would immediately understand what I mean because they have the same in their countries.

>>213601965
Nah.

I mean, yea, the starved part is true, the owned by the state not. Almost any rural Chinese owns a land plot to this day, albeit it’s often unused because people moved to cities.

>>213601861
>Also shows that France is also more germanic than med.
I mean in france could easily point out if this is nonsense or not by pointing out if the south of france has disproportionate people living with parents or not. Or its only 15% because economy good enough for youth to get rid of their parents ASAP.

>>213601978
>which has been under 3 for like 85 years
and? i don't get your point, it's normal that if you only have 1 child you need a smaller house than when you have 4 kids
but my point is that when you already have 4 kids (which i agree is not that common here) then you will most likely have the same living standards for each of the kids like as if you only had 1 kid - because you will simply build a bigger house

meanwhile in countries with standardized small housing like Hungary you're fucked if you have a bigger family, because only small kadar-kockas are available, so then indeed, with 4 kids in a 90sqm house you have low living standards.

>>213601979
like what? multi story houses? they are not exactly rare
https://earth.google.com/web/@47.55851939,18.95972221,262.34750366a,0d,90y,193.20448535h,90.47646786t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFnlQOE9GaklwaWp2UEJEdnVOc3ZqLVEQAkICCABKDQj___________8BEAA

housing size has more to do with money. and obviously modern houses are much much larger on average despite families being smaller

>>213602072
>they are not exactly rare
that house has literally 2 floors, show me something like >>213601713 and then we will talk

i already noticed it way before, once you cross the border between Slovakia/Romania/Serbia/Croatia and Hungary suddenly you can see the houses change, big houses disappear and mostly low houses appear. In Hungary housing standarization is definitely more advanced than anywhere else in eastern Europe.

>>213602055
but Poland has extremely few houses built before the 1960s when TFR was already under 3

>>213598337 (OP)
>36
Am i not young adult anymore ....?

>>213602169
do you realize that houses can be expanded over time? a lot of these big houses were built as 1-2 storey ones initially but they were expanded as the family was getting larger
and I can agree in the 1950s indeed a lot of big Polish families lived packed like sardines in small wooden huts. But that was in the past. These people built big houses over time and now they just live in them. Their housing standards are probably higher than most westerners have it.

>>213602169
dude, the statistics clearly show that Poland's houses are on average bigger than French and only slightly smaller than German, what else do you want from me to prove? Yes, Poles live in big houses and have high living standards even if they live with parents. I'm not gonna claim that these living standards are necessarily higher than in the west but certainly they are not as low as a Germanic person might think when he gets that 53% vs 14% data because we think in different categories. A Germanic person thinks that it directly translates to "53% Poles live in horrible, unbearable housing conditions vs only 14% Germans" while it's totally not like that.

>>213602159
But that house does not seem to have that much floor space, it is just built upwards. Also it is only 3 story tall with each floor being smaller + an attic, not 4-5. The lot is not that big so they built it upwards. You can find similar square meters in Hungary in areas with new development despite families being smaller nowadays. It is not some trad family thing

>>213602356
>it is just built upwards.
yes? that's what i said - separate floor for each generation/family, that's the point, it gives you a sense of privacy, if you want you can even install doors to every floor on the staircase within the house (i know many families who do that) or even build a separate entrance with stairs to every floor from the garden (again many people do that).

I don't know what you want to argue about now, that you can have high living standards only if you build wide and not upwards?

>>213602437
No I'm just not buying this trad larp thing Sorry

>>213602356
>It is not some trad family thing
In Poland it is because you find it even in huge plots, look at >>213601713 again, look how big the yard around the house is, they could build another house like that next to it if they wanted yet they built their house upwards for the reasons I specified before

really, i don't want to sound rude but please, don't teach me about my country. Once again, if you don't believe me, ask a Slovak, a Serb, a Romanian. It's really hard to discuss this thing with Hungarians because you simply don't have this in your country so I can understand this concept doesn't work in your head. But believe me, it does everywhere else in eastern Europe.

>>213602510
Lol you cannot just build up your whole plot, there are restrictions and exact percentages of how much you can build within the lot

Also sorry but being on 4chin you don't exactly seem representative of your countrymen. The math does not add up for sure

>>213602607
>there are restrictions and exact percentages of how much you can build within the lot
lmao
did i say we don't have zoning laws in Poland (which is also the reason why we don't have housing standarization)?
>The math does not add up for sure
ok so try finding a better explanation how come Poles have bigger detached houses than French even though we are 3x poorer than them per capita and in terms of accumulated capital over the last 200 years it's like 20x difference?

>>213602677
Every country has that. My great grandpa built a house and despite having a giant beautiful lot the actual house was pretty small

>ok so try finding a better explanation how come Poles have bigger detached houses than French
France is a lot more urbanized society with lot of older homes probably? Other than like mansions homes back then were much smaller of course. You can see this on here >>213602356
You can easily spot new neighborhoods because the homes are much larger. It is the same in every country. Before the 60s even the USA did not have these giant homes on average. It is a relatively recent thing
And it is not like countries like Germany has giant houses on average

>>213602887
>My great grandpa built a house
in Hungary it was possible 100 years ago, in Poland it is still possible.
>France is a lot more urbanized society with lot of older homes probably?
Cool but at the end what counts is who has more personal space. In Poland it simply works like that. I showed you a bunch of superbig houses from Poland, you couldn't find any counterexample from Hungary (let's not compare a 2-floor one to a 5-floor one) so this discussion makes no sense, we just think with different patterns, you must be born here to understand how it works apparently. I am sure I wouldn't have this discussion with any other eastern European because for them it would be just natural and they would understand me without additional explanation.

>>213598337 (OP)
We just don't have that kind of culture of staying with your parents that long
We like to have our own place

I am the 4%

>>213602999
>you couldn't find any counterexample from Hungary
Like what? Do you think there are no large houses in Hungary or what now? It is sometimes referred to as a "generációs ház" (generational house) with the exact same idea behind except the TFR has collapsed by the 80s and it is mostly single old people living in them. It is not being talked about because the TFR has collapsed and the economic activity is more centered nowadays around cities

>I am sure I wouldn't have this discussion with any other eastern European because for them it would be just natural
Kek are you just going to ignore the millions of Eastern Europeans living and renting abroad now?

Anyway I g2g now

people in poorer countries would be living alone more, too, if their government gave finland tier gibs

I am the 86%

Rentcuck for life

>>213603991
/thread

as my flag suggests I was born in reverse finland and I suffer for it.

I'm turning 30 next year, never will I work in this country or pay rent to a lazy boomer or foreign company. I'm just leaving this hellhole, you can all enjoy the beach and 14.000 latinos entering Madrid airport every day.

>>213605061
Latinos are harmless in comparison to what we’re getting

>>213605089
Okay, then take them. See what only seeing 140cm tall feisty goblins all day does to your mental health. There might be some who are not violent but they do not respect Spanish customs at all.

>>213605496
>do not respect Spanish customs
They work only below minimum wage and refuse to do siesta 24/7?

I just gotta wait for my parents to die then I'll have a nice house all to myself

>>213606163
They will live into their 80s and you will be probably be around 60 by then. Finally time to live your life and build your own family

I’m literally worth $500k staying with parents at 30. Why do parents want to set their kids back so much?

>>213598337 (OP)
Rents in Nordic countries are often cheaper than in places like Italy and Portugal. You basically can't move out in some countries until you're in like the top 20% income bracket or living with a partner who also works.

>>213605496
>Has Latinas in his country and still claims to suffer

>>213598337 (OP)
I'm 27, I tried to move out of my parents house with a job twice, both times I had to rent a room with a bunch of random latrinxamericans and it was fucking miserable

I'm currently looking for an apartment in my city since I finally got a remote job and I can't even find an affordable one under 1000 euros a month. I live in some random northern city and the average rent price must have increased around 200 euros in the last 2/3 years

One day I'm going to snap and stab someone just to go to jail and get free housing, and I'm only 50% joking

>>213606799
I'm in top 10% here and if I didn't inherit an apartment in Zagreb, I'd just move back to my mom's place in my home town.

>>213605061
And where are you even leaving, smartass? All of Europe is the same

>>213598337 (OP)
Denmark and we might share more than we thought could be possible

>>213604686
Finland is Greece of North, for gods sake we wuz hyperboreans and shiet.

I never moved out of my family home
My parents did

>>213598722
>you don't need to hire an au pair because there is always their grandma around
Protties expect payment to take care of their grandkids.

>>213608257
thankfully we're still catholic here and our mums are happy to spend time with their grandchildren
it's pretty common that grandmothers actually forbid their sons/daughters to put the grandchild in the daycare because they prefer to take care of the grandchild themselves, they think that it's harmful to a kid to be given to some institution with 20 other kids watched by an unknown person for 10 hours per day

>>213598337 (OP)
i'd rather live alone but i am young and poor and i'm not going into debt for a commie apartment lmaoooooooooo

>>213599238
Given the option of living for free with or without family I think most people everywhere would choose to live without. So the primary consideration there is financial.