Thread 213659359

Askenazi jews genetic tests have revealed they are almost 3/4 italian. I guess this is hidden in israel because it doesnt match their narrative

>>213659359 (OP)
I'll put my relativistic nigga hat on and counterclaim that italians are 3/4 ashkenazi jews

>>213659403
The theory is that ancient jews ( wich were levantines o algo) when romans expelled them from palestine, mostly moved in italy and intermixed with locals. This was before their autistic rules about non mixing with gentiles were not so strict

>>213659458
The real secret regarding the matter is that this was only possible due to ongoing demographic replacement of Romans of old Italian stock with mystery meat goblinos from around the levant and North Africa. By the time of even Octavian, Rome had been undergoing a significant fertility crisis, as can be evidenced by Augustus' various marriage policy enactments. At this point Roman Italians were still a significant demographic force and thus this was not necessarily an existential concern. However as we know, in the ensuing centuries Rome experienced a number of migratory crises toward its urban core, including significant movement of Jews, Levantines and North Africans. This issue was likely exacerbated by the fact that the Roman military machine selected primarily for Italic stock, effectively forcing them into a perpetual meatgrinder whilst Rome's various indigent minorities lived off the bread dole. Not to draw too many contemporary parallels, but there is definitely a resemblance to recruitment in the modern American military. Either way the result of this was Rome's urban core left eventually composed mostly of not Romans, with various animus and resentments toward the Roman state. The Christian religion was able to capitalize on this very well, and wield it as a political cudgel with which to beat 'old stock' Italians into submission.

Sources:
1. Pompeii, time capsule of the Roman Empire: paleogenomic analysis of human remains found in the ancient city (2024) (https://www.repository.unipr.it/bitstream/1889/5556/1/Tesi_dottorato_revisionata_36%C2%B0ciclo_Costanza-Cannariato.pdf)
2. The origin and legacy of the Etruscans through a 2000-year archeogenomic time transect (2021) (https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673)
3. Ancient Rome: A genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean (2020) (https://doi.org/10.1126%2Fscience.aay6826)

>>213659493
Iron age latins clustered with spaniards
Italians in the south cluster with mycenaean and anatolian greeks.

They have oriental-like dna. Not nafri-like

>>213659493
if what u wrote is true, also palestinians, levant araps or others would be 3/4 italian but only ashkenazi jews are.

>>213659538
All this poltard head canon narrative (imbued with modern parallels and anxieties about immigration) based on a whopping 11 samples from the ''iron age to republic era'' (a thousand years period pretty much)? Seriously? LOL c'mon

>>213659556
the ethnic replacement of native Italians was significantly accelerated by the Edict of Caracalla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_citizenship#The_Edict_of_Caracalla) (212 AD), which granted full Roman citizenship to all free men of the empire. Before the edict, Roman citizenship was predominantly restricted to ethnic Italians.

Caracalla was half Arab on his mother's side and of North African Phoenician/Punic descent on his father's side. Septimius Severus, his father, was the first non-Italic Roman emperor. He was born in North Africa to an Italian mother and Punic father.

In the 23 years following the Edict of Caracalla, Rome had a succession of MENA emperors: Geta, Macrinus, Elagabalus, and Severus Alexander. Their collective reigns culminated in the Crisis of the Third Century (235 - 284 AD), which almost collapsed the Roman Empire. It was eventually saved by two Illyrian Europeans, Aurelian and Diocletian. However, from this point onward, Rome was near continuously headed by non-Italian emperors.

We were Romans.

>>213659359 (OP)
posted it again award

>>213659639
by the late Roman Empire, a significant proportion of Italy was more ethnically Middle Eastern than European due to centuries of mass migration.

See The origin and legacy of the Etruscans https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abi7673

and Ancient Rome: A genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7093155/

>>213659678
I am still waiting for a israeli flag comment. Why do they keep aboidind this thread?

>>213659556
We have a handful of iron age samples, most Romans were cremated. And if you want to extrapolate from those handful of samples what the ''iron age latins'' were they still cluster with med populations the most (Corsica, northern Italy, Spain), not with nordoids like the retarded amerishart above suggests

>>213659359 (OP)
The paper explicitly said ORCHESTRA is a poor tool for admixture events predating the late medieval period and has a hard time differentiating between closely related ancestries, and also assigns ancestry groups that aren't available to the "closest available" modern population

Ashkenazi Jews being 20% Slavic makes their total ancestry similar to North/Central Italians which is what this paper uses as a reference population so it sucks up this ancestry

This is corroborated by the supplemental in the study which has Italian Jews (Roman Jews) as 40% Levantine and 50% Ashkenazi which makes no sense from historical or genetic perspective

Also all Jewish populations across the Mediterranean have Southern European ancestry which this doesn't pick up for the same reasons

>>213659681
>by the late Roman Empire, a significant proportion of Italy was more ethnically Middle Eastern than European due to centuries of mass migration.
what happened to those middle easterners when the empire split in half and the capital was moved?

>>213659740
>Also all Jewish populations across the Mediterranean have Southern European ancestry
bro this has italian, greek and soaniish dna differentiated. askenazi are italian

>>213659728
Literally what i said

>>213659681
Again, it's based on a handful of samples, we don't even know if those samples are actually Romans from Rome since Romans were cremated. Extrapolating this whole narrative from a handful of samples seems quite a leap, and only poltards do because of their narrative ''the Roman Empire fell because of immigration, just like our modern societies!''

>>213659768
Yes, the issue is the total autosomal content of Ashkenazi Jews is superficially similar to modern italians due to extra northern European ancestry, ORCHESTRA isn't good for ancient admixture events (you'd know this if you read the paper)

I'm saying ALL Mediterranean Jewish populations have Southern European ancestry which this tool doesn't pick up, because again, their total autosomal content isn't "most similar" to Italians (lack of Northern European ancestry)

>>213659769
Sorry it was directed at the Belarusian poltard

>>213659819
you are just a butthurt "jew", confronted
with reality

>>213659819
Essentially being 35% Levantine, 45% Southern European (Italian and Greek, some Iberian in there also), and 20% Northern Euroepan (simplifying a little) is superficially similar to Italians in ORCHESTRA because of the deeply divergent ancestries these groups have when blended together looks, with regard to a tool only made for recent ancestry, close to Italian.

It is overestimating how much is actually Italian here. Other Jewish groups don't have that extra Northern Euroepan ancestry, so it doesn't push their deep ancestry components to that of Italians, so it doesn't pick it up at all despite other studies showing that all Mediterranean Jews have it

>>213659848
I'm not butthurt you moron, you haven't read the paper.

>>213659811
>the few remaining samples spanning CENTURIES from Italy are of Levantine origin..
>you can't extrapolate data from these, find me NORDIC samples and extrapolate from them!!!1

>>213659912
yes italians are similar to iberians and france...guess what...we inseminated them

>>213659912
For instance, Cypriots aren't Literally 60% Italian here, it's just that that's the closest available modern population in terms of *deep ancestry*. I mean the deeply divergent Neolithic populations here.

>>213659912
Italians are also not literally this combination, it's just optimizing using the closest available modern populations, because this tool is explicitly not designed for ancient admixture events.

>>213659359 (OP)
That just proves Southern Italians aren't real Italians just European Arabs

>>213659960
This isn't a literal ancestry breakdown as in literal proportions, you aren't getting what I am saying at all. You are superficially similar to them because your deep Neolithic ancestries is what they are trying to fit here

ALL Jews have Italian ancestry but they don't have extra northern European ancestry like Ashkenazi Jews do, so it doesn't actually show any of it (it doesn't push their deep ancestral components in the direction of Italians)

>>213659740
>>213659763
>>213659784

>>213659940
Romans were cremated idiot, if you find 14 samples around Rome do you think it's methodologically sound to extrapolate from those handful of samples the genetic makeup of the Iron Age/Republican Romans based on 14 samples meant to cover a span of time that goes from the iron age to republican Rome (a thousand year = 14 samples)? Also, in the same paper you cited it says that in the Iron Age there was ''increase in iranian neolithic ancestry and appearance of north african ancestry. Variable ancestry between individuals. Population approximates modern mediterranean populations''.

So your whole narrative isn't even supported by the paper you link that the IA/Republic Romans were ''pure european'' lol. But don't worry, no immigrants are ever going to move to that shithole of yours, so no need to have immigration anxieties

>>213660052
>tp
>tf

>>213660052
Yes Republican Romans weren't fully 'European' in modernist sense of this word, which is useless to apply to that age, but they still weren't as Levantine as they had become by the time of the late empire.
Greeks themselves underwent huge genetic shift, so when Etruscans trace their lineage back to ancient Greeks it is not the same as tracing it back to the times of spread of Christianity when said Levantine mass migrations became a thing and flopped the Anatolian Greeks
Swarthiness is a spectrum

>>213660012
This is pretty obviously what is going on here. ALL Jews of the Mediterranean (called Western Jewry or the Western Diaspora) have South European (mostly Greek/South Italian + West Mediterranean-like) ancestry

>>213660052
It's actually 11 samples, not even 14. So 11 samples covering a span of time that is 900 years lol, come the fuck on. And those samples still cluster the most with modern mediterranean populations and already have iranian/north african ancestry

>>213660250
Italics were originally a population intermediate between Basques and North Italians, higher ANF than both groups without the extra Natufian + Iran N found in the Imperial Era population (mostly Greek/West Anatolian)

Pretty obvious if you look at their Neolithic ancestries

>>213660329
In truth: Greeks slowly browned themselves, and those Greeks migrated to Italy where they browned the Romans

>>213660139
varg is too funny

>>213659493
>the Roman military machine selected primarily for Italic stock
Lmao

Nononono

ITALIAN execution ITALIAN genocide ITALIAN slaughtering ITALIANcide ITALIAN removal ITALIAN extermination ITALIAN deportation ITALIAN hunting ITALIAN depopulation ITALIAN erosion ITALIAN beheading ITALIAN grinder ITALIAN chasing ITALIAN catching ITALIAN drowning ITALIAN burning ITALIAN execution ITALIAN genocide ITALIAN slaughtering ITALIANcide ITALIAN removal ITALIAN extermination ITALIAN deportation TOTAL SHITALIAN DESTRUCTION TOTAL SHITALIAN DEMOLITION TOTAL SHITALIAN RAZING TOTAL SHITALIAN DISMANTLING TOTAL SHITALIAN RUINATION TOTAL SHITALIAN SHATTERING TOTAL SHITALIAN EXPLOSION TOTAL SHITALIAN BOMBING TOTAL SHITALIAN DEVASTATION TOTAL SHITALIAN ANNIHILATION TOTAL SHITALIAN ERADICATION TOTAL SHITALIAN APOCALYPSE TOTAL SHITALIAN KILLING TOTAL SHITALIAN RAPE TOTAL SHITALIAN TERMINATION TOTAL SHITALIAN EXECUTION TOTAL SHITALIAN BUTCHERING TOTAL SHITALIAN MASSACRE TOTAL SHITALIAN DECIMATION TOTAL SHITALIAN EXTIRPATION TOTAL SHITALIAN END ITALIAN hunting ITALIAN depopulation ITALIAN erosion ITALIAN beheading ITALIAN grinder ITALIAN chasing ITALIAN catching ITALIAN drowning ITALIAN burning ITALIAN execution ITALIAN genocide ITALIAN slaughtering ITALIANcide ITALIAN removal ITALIAN extermination ITALIAN deportation ITALIAN hunting ITALIAN depopulation ITALIAN erosion ITALIAN beheading ITALIAN grinder ITALIAN chasing ITALIAN catching ITALIAN drowning ITALIAN burning ITALIAN execution ITALIAN genocide ITALIAN slaughtering ITALIANcide ITALIAN removal ITALIAN extermination ITALIAN deportation ITALIAN hunting ITALIAN depopulation ITALIAN erosion ITALIAN execution ITALIAN genocide ITALIAN slaughtering ITALIANcide ITALIAN removal ITALIAN extermination ITALIAN deportation ITALIAN hunting ITALIAN depopulation ITALIAN erosion ITALIAN beheading ITALIAN grinder ITALIAN chasing TOTAL SHITALIAN DESTRUCTION TOTAL SHITALIAN DEMOLITION TOTAL SHITALIAN RAZING TOTAL SHITALIAN DISMANTLING TOTAL SHITALIAN RUINATION TOTAL SHITALIAN SHATTERING TOTAL SHITALIAN EXPLOSION TOTAL SHITALIAN BOMBING

>if italians were intelligent they'd have a better mafia just like the jews do
Yeah adds up.