Thread 213793570

Why are the Koreans the only East Asians smart enough to stop using logograms? Alphabets are objectively superior.

>>213793570 (OP)
Someone posted a study over on /pol/ a while back that showed that the more complicated the writing system is, the worse off you are in innovation. Governments even endorsed the study too. Of course it was in a shit on China thread but it explained why they resort to stealing to stay relevant with cutting edge technology because their language is a massive barrier thats slows their ability to innovate.

Korea could have went further and use this super kino, more alphabet like system instead of the current combination-based system.

>>213794081
I feel like I saw you on Reddit

>>213793864
The issue isn't complexity. Here's an example.
https://archive.org/details/artartindustrie00alco/page/120/mode/2up
One page 108 he describes hiragana in its old form. It's a barebones abugida system, more simplistic than even an alphabet system, it doesn't even require grammar it can be purely segmented. The author claims (poorly) that the difficulty is the meanings of words are simulated in a 'double sense' what he's talking about is homophones. It's why most of the older readings of Japanese are near impossible because just knowing the word means nothing when there's no grammar or like 10 homophones, so you basically can only infer the meaning because of the picture. Kanji works in a similar fashion because Japanese has an ungodly amount of homophones you need the kanji to make sure you know what word is being used. Any linguistic problems that come from 'complexity' are always structural, if a language is complex but works it'll still work so as long as you can learn it efficiently. Japanese spend like 9 years learning their language so there's other problems here.

>>213794149
wtf, I don't even use reddit. stay away from me redditfag.

>>213793570 (OP)
I hate the korean alphabet
why does it have fucking circles
also having your script purely phonetic (which this isn't) is cringe

why wasnt the 72 in the example sentence get written as seventy two like the rest ?

also God bless the French for romanized old vietnamese. If i had to die for a country it would be France

>>213794261
isn't it portuguese

>>213794081
Whats is that called? Looks like a combination of mostly Hangul with a bit of Russian.

logograms make more sense when your language has a shit ton of one syllable words that mean 80 different things

>>213793864
Agree. Bahasa Indonesia is even simpler to English.
>no tenses
>no gendered noun
>no plural forms
>no definite/indefinite articles
>consistent verbs
>consistent pronunciation
>simple, almost non-existent grammar
>SVO order
>phonetic language
>uses Latin script
>many loanwords from other popular language
This explains why Indonesian are superior and more innovative than most people on earth

>>213794274
Niet, Portugal always knew how to keep it in their pants even if they had Macau for like 400 years. France went in dick first. If Portugal had 'colonized' Vietnam they would be using Chinese characters. If you can believe it even China had a Manchu script as their primary administrative language during Qing. What did Jesuits and Mandarins (mandarin is a Portuguese word btw) do? They forced Chinks to use their hieroglyphic language instead, even though the Manchu script was demonstrably superior over 60% of bureaucrats used it. The only reason they did this was for bureaucratic control even at the cost of efficiency.

>>213794277
풀어쓰기. I don't know what it's called in English. here's an another example. this is a different system from what I posted before.

>>213794274
yeah it's the Portuguese who first brought the Latin alphabet, the French reinforced it to mass population but Chữ Nôm looks pretty cool though. I wish they still taught it in classes so we wouldnt forget each word's origin

>>213794365
Hangul looks better to be honest. More simplified yet compact.

>>213794356
>even though the Manchu script was demonstrably superior over 60% of bureaucrats used it. The only reason they did this was for bureaucratic control even at the cost of efficiency.
what are you even talking about no fucking way i would choose to learn chicken scrambles over latin characters

>>213794290
even without synonyms, phonograms + logograms combined make you easier to read.
you can grasp the rundown just by tracing logograms visually, and understand the fine nuance by reading those two combined.

>>213794432
i would

>>213794432
If Portugal colonized Vietnam they would have, but they don't colonize they just want to keep people out of their paperwork. If 90% of the population can't read, needs to spend like 10 years in school to read at a 5th grade level, and lies about literacy stats they don't care.

>>213794475
did you know your commie party member grandpa had himself a US greencard while preaching patriotism ?

>>213794532
i wish he had one so i would have been an US citizen and not living in this communist shithole

>>213794454
prease exprain
>>213794187

>>213793570 (OP)
they needed to erase their sad history as a vassal state of china

>>213794842
>every accusation is a confession
More like you guys tried to hide the fact that you were colonized by Korea and were their vassal.

>>213794629
read my post carefully.
I don't deny the argument that the language needs logograms to deal with homophones.
I just said English and other languages should introduce the combination of alphabet + logograms too.

>>213793570 (OP)
Japanese scripts are syllabaries not logograms though

>>213794988
Or you know more vocab? I don't get why things like categories are so difficult. Bear and bear are homonyms but you never confuse the two because one is a noun and the other is a verb. I sincerely don't get it, you don't need logograms for katakana words because there's new vocab being introduced, so why not just make Japanese words for things that have too many homophones?

>>213793570 (OP)
I like only Japanese among the East Asian languages.

>>213794842

We love Ming, and we hate Qing.


>>213794913

To tell you the truth, there is still a lot of controversy over the power relationship between Baekje and Japan, with Baekje sending a prince as a prisoner to Japan and Goguryeo preventing Japan from invading Silla at the time.

>>213793570 (OP)
>>213795065
>Alphabets are objectively superior.
just admit you're a brainlet and monolingual, and you mean english because obviously you're not using other latin based alphabet language that is much easier and superior than yours

Why can't Korean use kanji for writing native Korean words?

>>213794428
It's proved hangul makes a nation downsizing.

>>213796931
Ming and Qing were Korea.

>>213798570
When will Japan reverse their declining population? Its been over a decade of accelerating decline.

>>213798963
It's not serious problem.

>>213799147
they should stop breeding with japanese women huh?

>>213799266
Yap, yap.

>>213797064
english generally distinguishes homophones in writing despite using an alphabet. though some homographs are not homophones. two different 'that' and 'that' is a lesser-known example.

either way, a writing systems, as well as the literary language that is tied together with it, can be harder to learn than another. this is an accurate observation. though the writing itself is probably irrelevant nowadays as writing is primarily digital, easily aided and passively learnt.

>>213795029
The typical names and categories given to scripts and writing systems don't have much consistency or are misinterpreted. Calling kana syllabaries is a very loose use of the term. since it is not the case that one letter = one syllable. they are understood as syllabaries because of their origins in chinese characters, which is an actual syllabary as well as more. the korea alphabet is also a syllabary of sorts. the syllables are delineated and the alphabetical letters form larger syllabic characters.

writing itself, in complete form, seems to originate specifically in languages that have a practicable alignment of syllables and morphemes. so symbols of denoting one syllable are derived, and quickly used more generically. it's hard to reuse a symbol when it's a bunch of syllables, or is used more abstractly, evading consistent (and therefore generic) phonetic assignment. even worse if 'words' as the speakers see them, as a speaker would intuitively decide to assign a symbol to, can be multiple morphemes. though i would suggest that for a pre-literate person, the concepts word, morpheme, and even inflectional form are the same. so this might not happen.

all the original writing systems are logographic and syllabic. and that's how they are able to develop fully as well as how other writing systems can be derived from them. when you have a complete writing system, you always have a strong phonetic element to it. as chinese does.

>>213794913
I really like how not only is 90% of this intentionally taken out of context so that they can be misinterpreted, but also mistranslated to confuse and be used to push agendas further.

>>213798689
According to recent results from Japan, It was all Japan

>>213800531
Korean style

>>213794988
>I just said English and other languages should introduce the combination of alphabet + logograms too.
BASED.

I'm a conlang fag and after years of struggling to find the perfect kind of writing system for my stuff I reached the same conclusion. Logograms for the most important or used stuff, alphabet for everything else.

test